How Safe is ESCROW.com for sellers

[heavend]

Hey guys,

I wanted to ask your opinion about escrow.com and what are they charging this big money for.... For a long time now, I have a reservations when it comes to selling domains and using escrow.com as a method of transferring the funds and domains securely. On the other hand as a buyer you dont' have this issue.
Other things, purchasing cars, etc via escrow.com is completely different animal, but domain names, due to their nature is not ideal.

So simple scenario:
1. Buyer is somewhere in China. (The ONLY reason I am using China - is it's less traceable spot, where a lot of domainers including myself do business these days)
2. You set up escrow.com transaction for your domain sale.
3. Buyer transfers the funds.
4. You as a seller, push the domain name to the buyer.
5. Buyer then immediately pushes somewhere else and set's up the privacy whois.

The rest is very simple. Basically you can have a problem and the details can be different...

Back about 7-8 years ago when I first came across an idea for this kind of scam, I was surprised how easy it is to setup and execute. I was selling a domain name for over $100,000 + my buyer wanted to use escrow.com ONLY, I talked to escrow.com representative to try to figure out is there any protection from this. At this time, the representative was surprised at my idea (they never thought of it), and told me while it potentially can happen - they never heard of it.... Needless to say - in this case, I was worried for no reason and my transaction ran without a glitch.

Now, for years I was trying to use moniker escrow.com because of this specific potential issue. Yes, it takes a little longer, but moniker takes a possession of the domain and the funds, before releasing domain and the funds. This is a true escrow services. What escrow does is pretty interface without real services. Why do people love it so much and why there aren't other alternatives like moniker escrow is odd. Sedo escrow is similar, of course, but they charge you and arm and a leg.

I never used DN escrow, heard about it recently.
Was wondering if people who are using it come across similar issue or if it's a true escrow services just like moniker or sedo?

What other true escrow services people can recommend which they used with success and without this potential risk?

All best,
Alex

 

[heavend]

yes, of course, i tried. I mean I removed it prior to requesting an escrow service. They claimed that i am trying to cheat them or whatever. I ended up paying 15 % anyways, since the buyer really wanted sedo escrow.

 

[Bannen]

As for your original request in the beginning of this thread: I know some people use Escrow dot com exclusively and have no problems. I've actually never used them. Whenever a buyer has asked for some escrow service - or even for us to use escrow dot com - I always suggest Sedo. I tell them why, I say that I will use whichever they choose... and in the end they've always chosen Sedo.

Because:
1 - Sedo specializes in domains, nothing else. Everyone who works there is involved in the domain trade industry. At Escrow, most of their business is hard copy goods, not 'electronic goods' such as domains. It's true they have some employees versed in domains, but their company isn't built around domains. If you have a serious back injury, do you want to go to a general practitioner doctor, or would you prefer a back SPECIALIST? The GP might do just fine, but I'd PREFER a specialist. Sedo is a specialist in domains, Escrow isn't.

2 - Sedo gives you a human 'representative' for your domain trade. Every time. Even if it's only a $100 sale. The reps vary, some of them are Johnny-on-the-spot and seem to respond immediately to every step the buyer and seller make, other reps take a day or two to get around to each thing. But you've still got a human rep doing the steps between you. At Escrow, you don't automatically get a human rep for your domain trade.

3 - Sedo, if anything goes wrong, they'll usually know what's happening, and know what to do about it, and the human rep will at least try. At Escrow, if anything goes wrong with a domain deal... well, good luck finding a human rep who will answer your questions and try to do something to put the deal straight. Usually it's just a 'cancel' and then work out the mess later with a human rep only once you begin a support ticket. As I said, I haven't used escrow dot com, but I know many who do and I hear the stories of how problematic domain deals are dealt with: cancel, then work out mess with support ticket.

4 - Sedo is full escrow. They take ownership of the domain, and the cash. (Though I think occasionally they will speed things up if they are dealing with two solid traders, and will allow some sellers to push directly to a buyer's account - someone might confirm or deny that for me here) But Escrow is only a half escrow - they take ownership of the cash, but leave it to the buyer and seller to make the domain transfer.

So yes, I pay a big chunk of commission to Sedo for their escrow; but they provide a full escrow, with a human rep, who knows about the domain industry. Even Sedo has their problems and issues of course, every company does. But they're a specialist and a full escrow, and that makes a huge difference to my peace of mind in a transaction. I've never felt that confidence about Escrow so I've never tried to use them, and thankfully every buyer I've dealt with has been good about choosing Sedo for the reasons I stated.

 

[21x20]

That's interesting and a weird strategy. I think I'm going to just empty my portfolio there since I haven't sold anything via sedo is a couple years. Would seem to shoot themselves in the foot a little like that.

 

[Bannen]

yes, of course, i tried. I mean I removed it prior to requesting an escrow service. They claimed that i am trying to cheat them or whatever.

Doesn't work that way; they can see the history of your domains listed with them. They can see that you cancelled your listing like, a day or an hour before requesting their escrow service.

If you have a domain listed at Sedo, and someone makes you a private offer on your domain (they contact you outside Sedo, or you contact them), you can't then remove your listing from Sedo and then immediately try to initiate their escrow service at the reduced rate. I'm not going to look through their massive TOS for you right now, but I know somewhere it mentions this.

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

Hi Heavend,
The short answer is - extremely safe.
If the buyer did try to move the domain to privacy to avoid "receiving" the domain we're able to use our contacts at the registrar to find out the status of the push.
If it's an extremely small or remote registrar that we don't have contact with regularly, we rely on the paperwork of the push and the WHOIS records, as well as speaking directly with the buyer and seller to get to the bottom of it.

Hi Bannen,
The majority of our transaction are for or involve domains (domain names, websites with contents and web businesses). Our bread and butter is transferring domains safely, and without that valuable sale price data going out to a brokerage, so you can be sure that every one of the staff in our offices works fluently with domains.

Customers of Escrow.com have long been wanting the option of having us securely hold the domain during transfer and I'm happy to say that today we can offer that. We're currently trialling the service for international domain name transfers and expect to update the public site with the option today.

Hope this helps!
Jackson Elsegood

 

[Bannen]

Good, Jackson, thanks for clearing that up and correcting any of my faulty hearsay info

edit:
And, in fact, it might be good to open your own thread here, to describe Escrow's current service toward domains. I'm not alone in believing that domains/electronic goods are only a small part of your business and that you're not full-escrow for them and that all your employees aren't well-versed in domains. You can clear this up and perhaps get a few more customers from it.

Note that I DO wish you'd automatically assign a human rep to every domain transaction. If you do this now too, please mention that.

Thanks

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

Not a worry at all, Bannan. We don't share or publicize the transactions we handle so it's nearly impossible to get that info from the outside

 

[Jasonn]

yes you want "External Domain Transfer Service" from sedo for the lower fees when you are talking to a buyer via inbound email inquiry.

 

[cmdomains]

well, you prove you owned the domain name and now you see iwhois - it as having privacy on. That is about it I think? You will not be able to prove that you transferred the domain to the correct person.? I think the only way to do it, is go through the registrar and they have all the IPs recorded. You have to get those details, and using them somehow prove that in fact it was you who delivered the domain and to the right person. If the domain name is with ename.com (in china) for example - they will NEVER listen to you. I dealt with them before. This registrar - is horrible.

I like this but I don't know why registrars won't add IP addresses used by sellers and buyers as the basis of digital asset protection, assuming that they cannot be cloned. ANd if one is using different IP addresses to access their accounts, then they should be able to register those IP adresses to the same account like how one can register their devices using Gmail, Outlook, etc. If that makes sense. This way, account holder is also responsible in regularly updating their registered IP addresses when they change, if they change. I think it'd be a good idea to involve IP providers on this.

I just did my first transfer from one to another registrar a while back and wow so many steps. It does add to peace of mind alright but how folks can still get away with stealing assets, I'm quite fascinated.

 

[think]

Not a worry at all, Bannan. We don't share or publicize the transactions we handle so it's nearly impossible to get that info from the outside

Very good to see a representative of Escrow.com here. That is very encouraging.

I have done several transactions through Escrow.com without any problems. But it's still good to know the company is taking the time to reach out to the domain community.

 

[heavend]

Hi Heavend,
.....
Customers of Escrow.com have long been wanting the option of having us securely hold the domain during transfer and I'm happy to say that today we can offer that. We're currently trialling the service for international domain name transfers and expect to update the public site with the option today.

Hope this helps!
Jackson Elsegood

This is awesome, Thank you for clearing this up and DOES help a lot. If you guys control the domain and the funds, (a true escrow service) - then there are no more questions - that's how it should work and then it would be 100 % safe for both parties.

Thank you Jackson, It's great that we have an official representative here.

 

[Argentum]

Hi Heavend,
The short answer is - extremely safe.
If the buyer did try to move the domain to privacy to avoid "receiving" the domain we're able to use our contacts at the registrar to find out the status of the push.
If it's an extremely small or remote registrar that we don't have contact with regularly, we rely on the paperwork of the push and the WHOIS records, as well as speaking directly with the buyer and seller to get to the bottom of it.

Hi Bannen,
The majority of our transaction are for or involve domains (domain names, websites with contents and web businesses). Our bread and butter is transferring domains safely, and without that valuable sale price data going out to a brokerage, so you can be sure that every one of the staff in our offices works fluently with domains.

Customers of Escrow.com have long been wanting the option of having us securely hold the domain during transfer and I'm happy to say that today we can offer that. We're currently trialling the service for international domain name transfers and expect to update the public site with the option today.

Hope this helps!
Jackson Elsegood

It it nice to hear representative of Escrow.com, it shows that Namepros, largest domain community is important for them. Personally I use about 10 yrs Escrow.com and had about 50 transactions with them, all without any single problem, and for me is interesting did anyone for last 10 or more years had any trouble with them and lost owned domain or money because of scam seller or buyer? Honestly i didn't heard about such situations.

 

[cmdomains]

Hi Heavend,
The short answer is - extremely safe.
If the buyer did try to move the domain to privacy to avoid "receiving" the domain we're able to use our contacts at the registrar to find out the status of the push.
If it's an extremely small or remote registrar that we don't have contact with regularly, we rely on the paperwork of the push and the WHOIS records, as well as speaking directly with the buyer and seller to get to the bottom of it.

Hi Bannen,
The majority of our transaction are for or involve domains (domain names, websites with contents and web businesses). Our bread and butter is transferring domains safely, and without that valuable sale price data going out to a brokerage, so you can be sure that every one of the staff in our offices works fluently with domains.

Customers of Escrow.com have long been wanting the option of having us securely hold the domain during transfer and I'm happy to say that today we can offer that. We're currently trialling the service for international domain name transfers and expect to update the public site with the option today.

Hope this helps!
Jackson Elsegood

Hi Jackson,

Just quickly dropping by conversation. I've had a question similar to OP's sent to Escrow support a while back. Answer I got was they "have ways" to find out if buyer received name. Honestly felt left in the dark there.

It's really nice to read a well put response this time. All best

 

[MisterSoft.com]

I've used many escrow services over the years:

• Escrow.com
• SEDO.com
• Godaddy.com (afternic uses that as well)
• DN.com (based in China)

1. Escrow.com is pretty reliable. Whenever the buyer drags his/her feet, simply pick up the phone and call the escrow.com customer support. They are very cooperative. I like them most as they are very affordable.
2. SEDO.com is extremely safe. You just have to PUSH the domain to SEDO escrow account and the funds are released right away. Only problem with SEDO is their commission fee: 15%-20% that is a lot!
3. Godaddy's commission fee is 20% as well. Most of the time, Godaddy has contacted me on behalf of the potential buyers. This is the best scenario where the seller will not pay any fee. For example, if the sale price is agreed upon $3000, then the seller will receive all of it.
4. DN.com is an escrow service based in China. I did few escrow transactions through them. Fist transaction was pretty scary as they are very picky on your proof of identity. The next hurdle was give them the proof of your WHOIS info. If you want to wire-transfer funds to your bank account, $55 will be levied as well. Once you are successful in the first transaction, the subsequent transactions are peace of cake If you want to do business with Chinese clients then you have to do a compromise. Chinese clientele prefer DN.com. Naturally, it is their comfort zone.

This the essence of my experience over the year in domain sale business. Please feel free to reach me should you have questions or comments. Peace!

 

[MisterSoft.com]

Hey guys,

I wanted to ask your opinion about escrow.com and what are they charging this big money for.... For a long time now, I have a reservations when it comes to selling domains and using escrow.com as a method of transferring the funds and domains securely. On the other hand as a buyer you dont' have this issue.
Other things, purchasing cars, etc via escrow.com is completely different animal, but domain names, due to their nature is not ideal.

So simple scenario:
1. Buyer is somewhere in China. (The ONLY reason I am using China - is it's less traceable spot, where a lot of domainers including myself do business these days)
2. You set up escrow.com transaction for your domain sale.
3. Buyer transfers the funds.
4. You as a seller, push the domain name to the buyer.
5. Buyer then immediately pushes somewhere else and set's up the privacy whois.

The rest is very simple. Basically you can have a problem and the details can be different...

Back about 7-8 years ago when I first came across an idea for this kind of scam, I was surprised how easy it is to setup and execute. I was selling a domain name for over $100,000 + my buyer wanted to use escrow.com ONLY, I talked to escrow.com representative to try to figure out is there any protection from this. At this time, the representative was surprised at my idea (they never thought of it), and told me while it potentially can happen - they never heard of it.... Needless to say - in this case, I was worried for no reason and my transaction ran without a glitch.

Now, for years I was trying to use moniker escrow.com because of this specific potential issue. Yes, it takes a little longer, but moniker takes a possession of the domain and the funds, before releasing domain and the funds. This is a true escrow services. What escrow does is pretty interface without real services. Why do people love it so much and why there aren't other alternatives like moniker escrow is odd. Sedo escrow is similar, of course, but they charge you and arm and a leg.

I never used DN escrow, heard about it recently.
Was wondering if people who are using it come across similar issue or if it's a true escrow services just like moniker or sedo?

What other true escrow services people can recommend which they used with success and without this potential risk?

All best,
Alex

I've used many escrow services over the years:

• Escrow.com
• SEDO.com
• Godaddy.com (afternic uses that as well)
• DN.com (based in China)

1. Escrow.com is pretty reliable. Whenever the buyer drags his/her feet, simply pick up the phone and call the escrow.com customer support. They are very cooperative. I like them most as they are very affordable.
2. SEDO.com is extremely safe. You just have to PUSH the domain to SEDO escrow account and the funds are released right away. Only problem with SEDO is their commission fee: 15%-20% that is a lot!
3. Godaddy's commission fee is 20% as well. Most of the time, Godaddy has contacted me on behalf of the potential buyers. This is the best scenario where the seller will not pay any fee. For example, if the sale price is agreed upon $3000, then the seller will receive all of it.
4. DN.com is an escrow service based in China. I did few escrow transactions through them. Fist transaction was pretty scary as they are very picky on your proof of identity. The next hurdle was give them the proof of your WHOIS info. If you want to wire-transfer funds to your bank account, $55 will be levied as well. Once you are successful in the first transaction, the subsequent transactions are peace of cake If you want to do business with Chinese clients then you have to do a compromise. Chinese clientele prefer DN.com. Naturally, it is their comfort zone.

This the essence of my experience over the year in domain sale business. Please feel free to reach should you have questions or comments. Peace!

 

[Premium gTLD]

Other seller options besides escrow.com and similar escrow services:

1) PayPal w/ one page sales agreement.

2) Uniregistry.com has a new "instant transfer" transfer feature that gets you paid in real time.

 

[NamesMax]

Even using the Domain Transfer Service for non-listed domains there is a minimum fee. When I clicked on that it was it was $60.00. So that is the minimum either way.

 

[Name Trader]

I name my transactions on Escrow.Com as "Push to XXXX at YYYY registrar"... So as long as I have a confirmation of the push, I've fulfilled the agreed upon transaction terms. (XXXX being the account name, YYYY being the registrar name.)

The problem with this is that many of these are not pushes at the same registrar. About 99.99% of mine are not like this, at least.

 

[LucidDomains]

Customers of Escrow.com have long been wanting the option of having us securely hold the domain during transfer and I'm happy to say that today we can offer that. We're currently trialling the service for international domain name transfers and expect to update the public site with the option today.

Hope this helps!
Jackson Elsegood

Sorry can you expand on this please.

Are you saying we can now transfer the domain to an Escrow account and then receive the sellers payment straight after that and you guys then handle relaying the domain over to the buyer?

 

[Name Trader]

@LucidDomains - I would guess there are more fees involved or a very high price per sale for this service.

 

[LucidDomains]

Yes I noticed on their website, this service is there for when there are multiple scheduled payments.

 

[Name Trader]

@LucidDomains - We shall see the next time @Jackson Elsegood post here. I'm sure.

 

[21x20]

The problem with this is that many of these are not pushes at the same registrar. About 99.99% of mine are not like this, at least.

Well... you do have some control over this as the seller with the negotiation process. There's very little good reason someone has to make the transaction include a registrar transfer... Unless you're using a really bad registrar that no one wants to keep?? Past that, it's for you to present account change only as part of your terms for the price you're agreeing to.

I've done a few dozen high value Escrow.Com transactions over the past 15 years and have never agreed to a registrar transfer... I'm old school to the point where I remember names getting lost or hijacked mid-registrar transfer, and so that's never something I would accept liability for. I almost walked away from one $300k sale over it, but in the end, the buyer agreed and we account pushed -- he wanted the name enough. For that transaction and others, I've always have placed it back on the buyer that "if you want to transfer registrars, as soon as I give you the auth-key, my part is done and the deal from my end is complete -- the key is the key to the castle and you then have control, not me." Presenting it that way, they often just agree to a push so they can then control both the sending and receiving end of the registrar transfer.

Now certainly, smaller transactions like here on NP, I typically do not use escrow.com... and I only deal with reputable sellers/buyers with existing feedback and longer term accounts... So here in the community, I'm willing to play by different rules for transactions say < $500 to $1k, including doing registrar transfers.

 

[domainerfella]

Good thread heavend.

You asked some of the questions I had in mind when I was nervous to transact for the first time in escrow/dn. The answer I received from experts was "they have ways." I believe this would be whois history checks. Even if someone changes the whois to privacy, there would be record of that change in the history. This is still vague and unsafe and I never received a satisfactory answer. I will tell you why. You provide the EPP in your contract. Buyer can use that EPP to transfer the domain name to any account, even to an unmatching email address as opposed to his escrow or dn email. When you take the case of ename, the transfer authentication mail comes with the ename ID (ex, 1011512) and does not mention email. So, in this scenario, I would assume it must be in the seller's best interest to mention the buyer's ename ID somewhere in the contract so you have the proof of ename transfer email in your inbox and you can approve that transfer without any doubt. So, we need to see how different registrars send their transfer emails - do they mention the buyer's account IDs or email IDs - and have that part of information filled into the contract.

No one seemed to mention the premium service escrow and dn provides. Isn't this the same as pushing domain to the escrow provider? If so, this service is already available with both escrow and dn.

Sedo charges 3% for external domain transfer, but there is an extra 3% if you are using credit card for payment. It might be a good idea not to list the domains in Sedo if you are planning to use them as escrow. But I find there is no ready, steady, go available for this method. You need to contact the broker first.

In an event of dispute, I would assume Escrow to be more westerner friendly and DN to be more Chinese friendly. But none of my Chinese buyers wanted to use Escrow.

There is a new escrow platform coming up. I already used them for one successful transaction. It is in beta stage. They might announce it in NP soon.

 

[heavend]

Well, the thing is we are talking about normal registrars: enom, godaddy, few others I am sure - locals.... Now how about huge transactions going into china - to ename.com. I had a very unpleasant conversation with ename customer support. Basically I told them I have $100,000 worth of domain names stolen and hidden on their site (with privacy turned on). They told me and I quote: " If you have something stolen from you call the cops"
Now, mind you this had nothing to do with escrow.com, but the point I am trying to make is - some registrars have much worse customer service then others, and will not talk to you without ICANN / Verisign representatives ...

So, it's a lot of potential headache. Now as I mentioned originally - i had a lot of transactions with escrow.com and never had an issue, but every time I would be a seller for large transactions ($30,000 - $50,000) - I would be worried, ask escrow.com to tell me what is their method of fighting against this and would receive a very unclear message - like " this won't happen because it won't"

Well, now, we finally received a promise from escrow.com representative , Mr. Jackson Elsegood - that this option is going to be available soon so it's great.

btw, you guys all mentioned DN - sounds great - I never personally used them. I always use 4.cn escrow services and it's been ok. First time, of course was very nervous, specially with wires, but it seem to be legit. Of corse, I still prefer moniker escrow or escrow, but Chinese buyers rarely go for it. In the same time, 4.cn does provide a customer service, and I called China numerous times and got a person who spoke English pretty well and who was assigned to my escrow transaction. I am talking about high end transactions, and not sure if every transaction get's a customer service person assigned to it. It would be a good idea for escrow.com to do the same and assign a customer service representative to transactions.