How dangerous is it? I say very!

[jacal1]

I think that these boards are unbelievably helpful if you know what you are doing. I can't belive how much helpful info I can get here, and its probably doubled my ROI literally. A wholehearted thanks to NP.

That said, these boards can also be dangerous. There are few voices of dissent, or at least devil's advocates. We all want to make money and be sucessful so badly we sometimes enjoy agreeing with each other when we have similar domains or strategies. If I chose to reg "crapiest-domain-ever.com" and someone posts "what do you think of "crapiest-domain-of-all.com", what do I say? "Great domain!!"

Some of you LLLLers know that I have been vocal about the fact that I think the bottom 10-12K LLLLs will have very poor ROI on average over time. Its not my point to have a thread debating that though. My point is that my dissent is now lost in a sea of everyone encouraging one another to buy some remaining LLLLs.

In this example, if you know what you are doing, you know what your business plan is. However, if you are relatively new and come to NP, I think you could be tempted to buy a bunch of LLLLs in a sort of get-rich-quick idea after browing the board. (I've seen people with less than 50 posts say things like "I just regged wvxr and I think it will sell to Xray techs in West Virginia")

The LLLL thing is just an example. Again I'm not looking to debate that. I'm just commenting on the "dangerous" nature of these boards. Its almost like we should all find one person with an MBA or advertising degree who thinks domain investing is not worth it and encourage them to post as long as they agree to be thoughtful and do their homework. Okay, that's not possible I'm sure, but you get my point?

Thoughts?

(Feel free to dissent or play devil's advocate )

 

[Deaol]

.. if people decide to jump on some bandwagon (EX all this new dubai crap) and start registering up names because some person has said this is the nest big thing, well.. it is no ones fault but their own. I would not say it is DANGEROUS, people just need to read the details, investigate and be smart about their purchases. Like seriously, some of these dubai development names people are registering are ridiculous and will never amount to anything, what is even funnier is that people just see someone post, "New Development" reg all this crap before it is too late... and follow along, not even looking into if this development is a go, or if the name is actually going to stay the name that has been posted.

Nevertheless, people have to learn not to just jump at something because some person says, "This is the next big thing" in most cases it won't amount to anything. Be smart, investigate about a project or a domain investment idea, than go ahead and shell the money. Don't be the sheep.

 

[jacal1]

You make a good point of course, but don't you think it can be easy to be fooled when a huge number of people encourage you and there seems to be no dissent? I don't consider myself a sheep, but If I've never tasted mud, and the first 100 people I ask ALL say mud is delicious and fantastic and I'll be rich if I eat it, maybe I try some?

Thanks for the reply and the thoughtfulness.

 

[Alex]

I agree to some extent with you.

Personally, I am an LLLL.com holder and I had some very good sales of LLLL's.

But, I guess it all resumes to: Do not spend money in any business you are not aware of. So, if you are new to domaining, be patient, learn a lot and it will be rewarding. I see many newbies who come in and post a bunch of hundreds or even thousands of useless names.

Those are people who invest (better said loose) money without doing any research. There are a lot of tools, and everybody should or MUST think very well where they spend any penny. There will always be people who try to make other people to register some names, so that their portfolio value will increase.

But I do not think this is the case of LLLL's. To be more precise this is not fully that case.

LLLL's do have some acronym potential, that is for sure. I can compare them best with 3 character .com 's rather with 3 letter .com ;s.

I understand this is not a discussion about LLLL's, and there were other categories that were too advertised on domain forums lately.

But I believe in LLLL's after I made a very big research. And those who know me, know that I am very very calculated, sometimes over calculated and even lose some opportunities because I do not act quick.

But I started domaining in April basically. I bought my first domain in March, and other 6 in April. I was a member on many domain forums since January, so before I bought any domain, I researched the industry more than hundreds of hours. And since then I bought many LLLL's and also sold many.

I had a very limited start-up fund that many from here can't even imagine. It was $20. My day job does not pay very well, I do that because I believe in it (I work in a charity).

To this date I spoke to many people, and many of those experienced domainers (not the newbies here), bought LLLL's from me and from the aftermarket. This gave me courage to continue buying LLLL's.

I am sure that some people who think they nwill be able to sell their crappy LLLL's for low $xxx in less than a year will be disappointed, and will drop their names. But they have to understand that domaining is not a get rich quick scheme, instead it is a very high paying business if done wisely, and if you are dedicated.

Regarding LLLL.com 's, I see them gaining in value. I can see crappy names going for low $xx to resellers in the very near future.

But I see an even bigger price increase at various LLLL categories. I see the all premium letters gaining much more in value. I see the pronounceable ones (the real pronounceables) gaining value even faster than LLL's do.

But we have different opinions, and this is ok. And threads like this are in the benefit of many people.

My advise would be: do your own research before spending $$ on anything. For me it was very hard to earn money, and I still appreciate every dollars. If anybody does this, they will be more sure of themselves, they will control their actions, and will feel more confident in domaining.

I like LLLL's, and maybe will continue registering some. But I am confident on myself.

On another note, I would also feel betteer if a buyout of LLLL's would happen, but from a bigger investor, not from many small investors, because in this way the market will not grow that much, as there will always be sellers that will flip their domain for a small profit. bigger players wait for end users (and there are end users even for the crappy letter).

I appreciate your input Jacal, and hope that everyone who invests in domaining know why they do it, and know what to expect.

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

Hmmmm, I would say that there are quite a few on this board that will give their honest opinion about names. If you visit the Appraisals section, about 60-80% of the names submitted have gotten reg fee value appraisals from the members here. I really don't see members here telling newbies that they have good names when they in fact do not.

Investing is not for the weak/timid. Especially with the more risky ideas. And as Deaol says "Be smart, investigate into a project or a domain investment idea."

If you've lost money jacal1, that's too bad. But it happens to every investor. Especially when they are still getting the hang of things. It's up to every individual to research, question ideas, do more research, then spend on the idea if it still holds water.

BTW, domaining is actually the safer way to invest. If you buy a bad name, you can still get your money back out of it, and maybe a bit more. If not, then develop it and sell. With the stock market, you most certainly won't have such an opportunity to recoup costs if it was a bad lead.

 

[jacal1]

Alex, great, thoughtful post, as always. I hope people read when you post - you certainly know your way around domaining.

Mayhem, I've made good money - haven't lost a bit. My post was not a response to anything personal that's happened to me. I appreciate your post, but disagree with one thing. Domaining is a safe way to invest IF you know what you are doing and can afford to wait for your ROI. The average person can get 105% of their money back from a CD which takes 30 seconds to open. Do you think that every domainer gets 105% of their money back IF you include EVERY fee they paid on ALL their names plus something for all the time they put in. This year my true return, factoring in time spent is probably 125%, but I pride myself on a solid business strategy and a lot of work put in in learning.

 

[Spade]

I think the issue on this board, boils down to Risk vs Reward and value of opinion/information.

A lot of new domainers come to NamePro's to learn, and are influenced by many of the board posters that LLLL.com's are a solid investment. And even doing research, see that obscure LLLL.com's can and do sell.

However, they are NOT seeing the larger picture. I do agree with jacal1 that it can be harmful for a rookie domainer to see a thread that is "pro" LLLL's however, it is ultimately up to the new domainer to do their homework as a responsible investor.

Simply because something is posted on a forum, does not make it true. Influential? Yes. But not true. It is every domainers responsibility to do their own homework, and make their own conclusions. It is then their responsibility to weight the risk vs reward and determine if they are comfortable with it. Anyone who doesn't is simply not taking appropriate precautions.

Justin

 

[jacal1]

In another thread I just had to respond to being called a "sour party pooper" because I don't see the final 12K or so LLLLs as solid investments. Again, there tends to be no tolerance sometimes to differing views. I have very thick skin - so I'm not complaining, just pointing out what happens sometimes when you disagree.

 

[notlikeyou]

Simply because something is posted on a forum, does not make it true. Influential? Yes. But not true. It is every domainers responsibility to do their own homework, and make their own conclusions. It is then their responsibility to weight the risk vs reward and determine if they are comfortable with it. Anyone who doesn't is simply not taking appropriate precautions.

Justin

being responsible for your own actions, simple as that.

BTW mud tastes like mud & it's won't get you rich quick
tasteslikemud.com is available

 

[Spade]

In another thread I just had to respond to being called a "sour party pooper" because I don't see the final 12K or so LLLLs as solid investments.

The forums job is to promote healthy discussion - Having different opinions is always a good thing - calling someone a name for disagreeing with you is downright childish.

 

[Alex]

I invested in LLLL's only after I found two great buyers that bought them in bulk from me.
One of these domainers is a well respected one, a CEO of a domain registrar that is somewhat known amongst domainers. I had the rivillege to do business with him, and he told me his view on LLLL's.

he has a portfolio of over 3.000 LLLL's, most of them regged back in 2002 - 2004. He does not actively sell domains, just wait for the right end user, and he negotiates very well.

In 2005 and 2006 he sold 5 domains every year, in total 10 domains. All were end user priced, not $xxx sales. This year he already sold 7, so he saw an increasing demand in LLLL's. Thus he extended his portfolio by 600 LLLL's that I registered or bought to him based on certain criterias.

He does not know if these lower quality domains will have the same end user appeal as the others did. I am not sure as well. But he says that if he sells 1 domain out of 500, he recoups the registration and first renewal fee.

It is uncertain if end users will come. He will see.

But I tell you one thing. He does not give more than $500 for a premium CVCV. He has both brandable CVCV domains, and both acronym LLLL's. He gets many emails from domainers for the CVCV's but he does not give importance to them (yet). He has a lot of patience and will wait for the best offer possible. And will negotiate it up to an incredible price, because he has extremely good negotiation skills.

there are less acronym potential with bad quality letters. Will they have end user appeal? This is the question that can make LLLL's stronger or not. If no end user sales will be with lower quality LLLL's, then in 1 or 2 years, they will not be renewed. Domainers sales will happen but these are not very sustainable.

I am confident that LLLL value will grow, even if I am not that optimistic as others do. and unfortunately I cannot afford to apply the same business model as my former client did. He already have enough funds, so that he is not in a rush to sell. Unfortunately I need liquidity and I will resell them to domainers. And the bigger the number of quick flippers (like me), the slower the value of LLLL's will grow.

That is why I hope a big investor like my former client will come and make a buyout. Maybe it would be profitable. If in 1 year he would get some end user sales, it should be.

Back on the topic, I agree with Spade, and everybody needs to make his research before investing. and fortunately there are many resources a domainer can find.

Cheers to all,

Alex

 

[-NC-]

we sometimes enjoy agreeing with each other

jacal: IHMO, the core of your post relates to the desire for a environment where healthy debate is valued by all, and everyone can feel free to express their opinion without fear of personal attacks.

I can certainly agree with that ideal, however I am a cynic, and I think it is a utopian dream. Everyone has different cultures, levels of acceptable behaviour, levels of tolerance. Conforming to an absolute fixed standard would destroy the very freedom it was intended to create.

 

[sashas]

I'm personally a LLLL.com believer.

But I still see the larger picture: LLLL.coms drop like flies everyday. This makes me certain that there will always be available LLLL.coms with bad letters and they will never run out, like the LLL.coms. A dropping LLL.com is something of an event of the year, whereas dropping LLLL.coms (even the good ones, though I'm yet to see a good CVCV.com drop) is a daily occurrence.

So for the real newbies (I know I'm one too, but have learned something over the past 3-4 months), I would recommend getting them off Snap or buying them at forums like NP and DNF, but staying away from the bad ones. I got some great LLLL.coms for the $60 Snap fee, a couple that I sold within two weeks for a 500% ROI. Thats the route I would recommend. Better to get one decent LLLL.com than buy half a dozen bad ones.

 

[jacal1]

Sashas, that is VERY solid advice - and could bring a very healthy reward. And its the kind of advice that both disagrees and agrees at the same time, so no one will be turned off!

-nc-, The cynics are important and vital here...more power to us!

 

[xman]

Dangeous? You got to be kidding me.

When someone regged some crappydomain.com as you mentioned you would say "Great Domain!!" you're not being totally honest with your fellow domainers.

I did some experiment with these crappy letters as we called it and started typing these bad letter and guess what? 50% of the time it end up being a Chinese company and sometimes a coder would get these domains for their projects.

It is true what you said about new domainers tend to reg. these left over LLLL.com and expect some good return but I think these left over LLLL.com are much better investment than those made up hand reg. at least from what I've seen. Even when new comers end up losing money at the beginning of their domaining, it is a lesson that most of us experienced when we first started domaining and that mistakes make us wiser and become better in selecting names. Success is a much sweeter when we fail from the beginning.

 

[KingDon]

Your post made me laugh; and here's why.

When they're all gone, they become more valuable, it's that simple. When people started grabbing these 4LLLL's after the 3-LLL's were all gone, I went onto other things that were of less interest to the big boys.

The 4-LLLL's will sell out, and in a year they may fetch $50-100 for even the most obscure, it's just the way things work, and this trend has been repeated numorious times with the following examples.

Obscure LLL's combinations
Then LNL's obscure combinations (they were blue in the face against these)
then the LLL.NET (a reg fee)
And now it's the LLLL.

But when the LLLL's go (and they will go) what will amaze people is how the value of the 3-LLL's will grow in value, this is what the rest of you are missing.

 

[jacal1]

X - good points, except I disagree with the "dishonest" part. My point was that if I truly and honestly think that crapiestdomainever.com is great, I'll honestly like similar domains. Even if I'm way way wrong.

King, great point about the LLLs.

 

[Dave_Z]

Nevertheless, people have to learn not to just jump at something because some person says, "This is the next big thing" in most cases it won't amount to anything. Be smart, investigate about a project or a domain investment idea, than go ahead and shell the money. Don't be the sheep.

A secret shared by many wealthy individuals (which I hope to join in the next
3 to 6 months. )

 

[shockie]

nah... responsibility lies with each person. unless somewhat is flat out trying to scam you, then any poor decisions you make are your own fault.

judging by the quality and quantity of the domains of some of the newcomers, some people just need to learn the hard way. some feel the urgency to hand reg these "incredible" names in their first week instead of waiting for a few months and doing the hard work of reading and learning.

 

[KingDon]

If I started today and bought 10 weird LLLL's, I would have been on a better track than when I started; I was regging all kinds of crap, and figuring out how to spend the money. You could easily do a lot worse than erroneous LLLL's, at least there's someone else who might buy them.

I only have around 40 LLLL's so I'm not moving to Mexico when they explode; but I may by a motorcycle