discuss Domain name insurance

[platey]

Each domain name purchased should include domain insurance designed to provide reassurance for those buying domains and the domain name insurance should include free fully inclusive udrp legal fees so that the domain name industry starts meeting the standards that people that buy products ob the high st and online have enjoyed for some years now - eg the basics eg a product can be exchanged for a full refund or a faulty domain name eg a udrp domain name for a er non faulty domain name {one that CAN be used or sold etc
{which is standard practice everywhere}

if a person buys a new car {the checks to make sure that the brand new or used car is roadworthy etc are done prior to the car being sold to the customer by the garage not the customer

but in the domain name industry checks should be done to make sure that domain names that are subject to udrp compaints are verified to make sure that they cannot be bought by a non trademark holder prior to the sale of that domain not as is currently the case eg buyer buys a domain name {trademark owner finds they are too late that a domain name infringes their trademark etc then files a udrp etc

to use the well known phrase - approx - closing the gate after the horse has bolted?

the horse bolted? the horse has been to the moon and back before the trademark owner realizes that a domain name that may infringe their trademark etc has been purchased etc

domain name investors need domain name insurance to make sure that they can buy domain names knowing that infringed domain names are not available to them and or that if they have bought an infringed domain by mistake they can transfer it to the trademark owner whose trademark the domain allegedly infringes and know they will get to choose a domain of equal quality and price that way the trademark owner is happy they got their domain the buyer who originally bought it in error has been compensated and both parties may need domain name insurance that pays any neccessary legal fees

{but that's too easy} lol

 

[Addison]

It wouldn't be sensible for domain insurance to exist because the premiums (your monthly bill) is calculated based on the risk the insurance company is taking, and that would be a BIG risk. You'd have to pay more per month for insurance than the actual domains you're buying in 99.99% of cases. Why? Because even an $8 domain name could still be subject to thousands of dollars of risk:

• UDRPs can cost several thousands
• Statutory damages up to $100,000 per domain name for trademark infringement.

This sums it up:

 

[Kate]

And whatever happened to personal responsibility ?
Now anything can be insured but UDRPs usually don't happen by accident. It's the registrant's fault in the vast majority of the cases. It's hard to insure lack of education or sheer stupidity
However, one thing that makes sense to have is broad legal insurance.

 

[Michael]

but in the domain name industry checks should be done to make sure that domain names that are subject to udrp compaints are verified to make sure that they cannot be bought by a non trademark holder prior to the sale of that domain not as is currently the case eg buyer buys a domain name {trademark owner finds they are too late that a domain name infringes their trademark etc then files a udrp etc

Any domain is subject to a UDRP complaint, they are filed against completely generic domains all the time even when no bad faith was involved. This would be an impossible promise to make because no domain is safe.

As others mentioned, insurance premiums are calculated based on risk. It would be very difficult for an insurance company to analyze the risk of an entire portfolio, and it would be impossible to calculate the risk of the policy holder making a mistake and doing outbound sales to trademark holders, parking domains with infringing links, etc. on an otherwise seemingly generic domain.

It could work in theory, although the insurance company would have to retain the right to deny claims if you did something in bad faith, the premiums would have to be pretty high, and I assume a high deductible too. Even then it would be a pretty risky business proposition, not even considering the $1k - $100k potential damages under the ACPA (it would have to be purely for UDRP).

Giving you a domain of equal value if you lose one would be borderline impossible, especially if nothing similar is available for sale at the moment, but also because domains are unique snowflakes and value is very subjective And that type of offer would be ripe for abuse, policy holders could contact trademark owners without fear because if they lose the domain they'll just get a replacement.

I'm a big fan of the idea of UDRP insurance, but not sure it is feasible. Your best insurance is being educated on the law and being smart/careful.

 

[platey]

And whatever happened to personal responsibility ?
Now anything can be insured but UDRPs usually don't happen by accident. It's the registrant's fault in the vast majority of the cases. It's hard to insure lack of education or sheer stupidity
However, one thing that makes sense to have is broad legal insurance.

good points made but if a domain isn't fit for purpose it should not be allowed to be bought

and as domain names are an investment? i'm not sure about other countries etc but lawyers in the uk are queuing up to sue to get their clients money back {irrespective wether investment klost in a udrp or otherwise} and it wont bother such lawyers if they have to a registry and or a registrar or even icann etc
the uk is compensation culture at the mo {and its all the registrants problem for buying a domain that should not have been sold them won't wash}

 

[Kate]

good points made but if a domain isn't fit for purpose it should not be allowed to be bought

That only applies to the blatant TMs and even then it depends on usage. I have the right to buy walmartsucks.info to exercise my free speech rights, within strict boundaries. That still doesn't mean that you won't hear from their lawyers, but your position could be defensible depending on the circumstances. Some TM holders lost at UDRP because they couldn't establish bad faith.
So it's seldom a black & white situation.

In fact, there is no reason for a registrar to forbid me to register ebay.tld. Why ? Because, how can they determine if I am an authorized Ebay employee or not. They would have to screen every registration but in most TLDs registrations are automated.

There are insurance schemes to cover professional/legal risk. There is no real need for domain-specific insurance.

 

[carob]

If this is like many insurance products they would happily sell it to you secure in the knowledge that you would never claim, at least not successfully, because of a little-noticed subclause specifying that you cannot claim for a domain that did not have a burglar alarm fitted and wired to a certified domain appraisal company.

 

[platey]

it makes sense for trademark owners to have the domain names their trademark infringes but sometimes a trademark void a considerable amount of domain names and domain name investors should pool resources so that those new to domain name investing are aware of which domain names to avoid when purchasing domain names

a lot of clarity and transparency is required in the domain name industry because sometimes an trademark infringed domain name may simply be bought in error not deliberately and should not be seen as being bought as deliberately and as much as its easy to blame the domain name investor for possibly buying an infringed domain name etc - trademark owners and local business groups should make trademark owners aware that the internet was invented whilst they were busy doing ostrich impressions

why would a tademark owner waste so much time and possibly legal expense in obtaining a trademark and not invest an hour searching through a registrar to purchase the domain names that they consider may infringe their trademark?

 

[platey]

Any domain is subject to a UDRP complaint, they are filed against completely generic domains all the time even when no bad faith was involved. This would be an impossible promise to make because no domain is safe.

As others mentioned, insurance premiums are calculated based on risk. It would be very difficult for an insurance company to analyze the risk of an entire portfolio, and it would be impossible to calculate the risk of the policy holder making a mistake and doing outbound sales to trademark holders, parking domains with infringing links, etc. on an otherwise seemingly generic domain.

It could work in theory, although the insurance company would have to retain the right to deny claims if you did something in bad faith, the premiums would have to be pretty high, and I assume a high deductible too. Even then it would be a pretty risky business proposition, not even considering the $1k - $100k potential damages under the ACPA (it would have to be purely for UDRP).

Giving you a domain of equal value if you lose one would be borderline impossible, especially if nothing similar is available for sale at the moment, but also because domains are unique snowflakes and value is very subjective And that type of offer would be ripe for abuse, policy holders could contact trademark owners without fear because if they lose the domain they'll just get a replacement.

I'm a big fan of the idea of UDRP insurance, but not sure it is feasible. Your best insurance is being educated on the law and being smart/careful.

udrp insurance should be mandatory with every domain name purchase but domain name insurance premiums should be paid to icann and icann should use the insurance premiums to provide a free legal resource to domain name investors and if required a domain name check prior to a domain name investor buying a domain eg prevention not the udrp it wouldn't be that difficult to offer a mandatory domain name check prior to each and every domain name

the basics of the domain name industry are in place although it needs tweaking here and there to minimize trademark infringement and where necessary notify registrars of potential trademark infringement domains but newbies are effectively sitting ducks so to speak to the experienced domain investor and or trademark owner and therefore require udrp insurance as a basic standard

 

[Kate]

why would a tademark owner waste so much time and possibly legal expense in obtaining a trademark and not invest an hour searching through a registrar to purchase the domain names that they consider may infringe their trademark?

TM holders already do a lot of defensive registrations, but it's not practical to buy all possible variations/typos etc of all their brands across hundreds of TLDs. The problem is not just the cost but the hassle of managing a large portfolio and the clerical work involved.
There is the TM clearing house (TMCH) though.

udrp insurance should be mandatory with every domain name purchase but domain name insurance premiums should be paid to icann and icann should use the insurance premiums to provide a free legal resource to domain name investors

It's not icann's job and in my opinion they are doing enough of a mess already.
But maybe one day they will tell us how they intend to spend the millions that they raised through the gTLD program
Besides, they already levy a fee on each gTLD registration.

The number of UDRPs remains very small in proportion to the amount of registered domains.
A mandatory insurance is not fair, because all registrants get to pay for the mistakes of a few people. Big porfolio holders like us will contribute more than the average person. Not to mention that some people will attempt to defraud the system.

One thing to keep in mind is that a case will seldom go straight to UDRP (or to court), unless the TM holder wants to make an example out of somebody. Usually the registrant will get a C&D first. If it goes to UDRP it's usually because the registrant doesn't want to hand over the domain because he thinks he's smarter and he has every right to squat on a TM. If people want to play dumb, then let them take responsibility for their actions. Don't finance them.

Maybe the best is to support an organization like ICA. Domainers should take care of their own interests because nobody else will.

 

[platey]

TM holders already do a lot of defensive registrations, but it's not practical to buy all possible variations/typos etc of all their brands across hundreds of TLDs. The problem is not just the cost but the hassle of managing a large portfolio and the clerical work involved.
There is the TM clearing house (TMCH) though.

It's not icann's job and in my opinion they are doing enough of a mess already.
But maybe one day they will tell us how they intend to spend the millions that they raised through the gTLD program
Besides, they already levy a fee on each gTLD registration.

The number of UDRPs remains very small in proportion to the amount of registered domains.
A mandatory insurance is not fair, because all registrants get to pay for the mistakes of a few people. Big porfolio holders like us will contribute more than the average person. Not to mention that some people will attempt to defraud the system.

One thing to keep in mind is that a case will seldom go straight to UDRP (or to court), unless the TM holder wants to make an example out of somebody. Usually the registrant will get a C&D first. If it goes to UDRP it's usually because the registrant doesn't want to hand over the domain because he thinks he's smarter and he has every right to squat on a TM. If people want to play dumb, then let them take responsibility for their actions. Don't finance them.

Maybe the best is to support an organization like ICA. Domainers should take care of their own interests because nobody else will.

domain names are like cars they all need to be insured to be used? lol

i can see your point of view and from a registrar or an individual with a large portfolio or a business with many trademarks etc across many domains which would require much clerical work etc? and?

that isn't the problem of the person with the odd domain or two?

the example you give is like a large supermarket not checking the date on every item of food it sells and making sure that no item of food they sell is unfit for human consumption? {because they sell too many millions of items per day? if it means they have to take on more staff to make sure that its done? every single item they sell worldwide evety day? {that means they have to take on 10000's of staff to ensure they do}

and because they do it makes buying a sandwich and eating it straight after purchasing it an easy thing to do? eg pick item of shelf buy it {use it} eat it - nice and simple

and if a person isn't old enough to buy certain products in the supermarket it is the supermarkets responsibility to make sure that person does not buy the product they are not old enough to buy etc not to allow them to buy it profit from it and say its not our problem?

i've yet to go into a supermarket and be told whilst walking round the supermarket etc to check the dates on the sandwiches because the staff can't be bothered to so because the supermarket is too huge?

 

[Kate]

The problem is that the registrar is not a mind reader and can't really figure out your intentions when you're buying a name. The TM issues often become obvious only after the purchase or when you start (mis)using it.
As I said, before you get UDRPed you usually get a chance to make things right.

But since the public at large has little sympathy for the squatters that we supposed to be, the idea of enforcing mandatory UDRP insurance upon everybody would not be well received I think

 

[platey]

The problem is that the registrar is not a mind reader and can't really figure out your intentions when you're buying a name. The TM issues often become obvious only after the purchase or when you start (mis)using it.
As I said, before you get UDRPed you usually get a chance to make things right.

But since the public at large has little sympathy for the squatters that we supposed to be, the idea of enforcing mandatory UDRP insurance upon everybody would not be well received I think

i know what you mean

with gtld's being issued almost daily etc or so it would appear its almost a case of domain name investors are almost not having time to think because while you think someone else will have registered the domain name we were going to register next especially for those that hand register domain names etc

so just as their is a 60 day period that exists before a domain name can be sold and transferred after purchasing eg why not have a 60 day trademark infringement or udrp immunity period after domain name purchase whereby a domain name can be exchanged for a full refund by the registrar if a domain name is found to infringe a trademark so the domain purchased cannot be developed until 60 days after domain name purchase as most stores etc have a cooling off period etc this would be the equivalent of that
and thinking about it why isnt there a website where all domains sold are listed by date and time purchased etc that can be scrolled