discuss Domain Microfinance Program

[Rob Monster]

As some folks here know, I am a big fan of Digital Empowerment projects that scale.

Over the last year, I have seen lives transformed by people becoming successful domain investors on a bootstrap.

I have been discussing with a few folks about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs.

This could be a Digital Empowerment strategy for helping people to bootstrap domain portfolios. The idea was inspired by a discussion with a young Angolan.

The idea is this:

- People apply to get a microfinance grant. To get the grant, they have to verify their identity. This is done in order to prevent repeat applicants.

- Domains registered are limited to .com. With a budget of as little as $30, right now that is about 5 .com domains at a promo rate of just $5.49.

- The domains are powered by an SSL powered landing pages which domain owners can optimize and then use to sell or lease.

- Once the grant participants generate a certain level of sales or leases, e.g. $100, they can request an interest-free domain loan based on their portfolio.

 

[JB Lions]

You are right about buying at few hundred dollars in the Aftermarket and selling for four figures to end users being very doable, many people here are doing it everyday.

How many members here with large portfolios do you think will be willing to donate a two or three hundred dollar domain to the pool that can be sold by the participants in the program for double or more, that's what we need to find out, and if you say that no one is going to donate even one domain then I guess the domain Industry is not what we all thought it was.

The domain industry is about buying and selling domains. Anybody in this world can jump in. Your idea makes no sense. You want people to donate domains they paid two or three hundred dollars, when new people can get started just like everybody else. Put in the work, whatever money you can afford to lose or want to invest, make good choices, learn from your mistakes etc. BTW, this is yet another post that has failed to touch any of the real issues brought up. Dancing all around it, doesn't make it go away. You can go ahead with this project, you will be dealing with these issues at sometime.

 

[oldtimer]

new people can get started just like everybody else.

New people in developed countries yes, but we are taking about helping impoverished and disadvantaged people who have the ambition to move up but are caught in some bad situations that condemns them to a life of poverty.

 

[JB Lions]

New people in developed countries yes, but we are taking about helping impoverished and disadvantaged people who have the ambition to move up but are caught in some bad situations that condemns them to a life of poverty.

So you want to get them into something with a high failure rate? With hand regs and domains that other domainers can't sell? That doesn't make sense, sorry. You keep trying to play this emotional angle, instead of having a real conversation on this. Still not touching any of the points.

 

[oldtimer]

So you want to get them into something with a high failure rate? With hand regs and domains that other domainers can't sell? That doesn't make sense, sorry. You keep trying to play this emotional angle, instead of having a real conversation on this. Still not touching any of the points.

You didn't say why we can't create a pool of donated domains, like one domain by each member that are in the two or three hundred dollar range and you keep reverting back to the participants having to deal with worthless or leftover domains, please address this precisely without any diversions.

 

[JB Lions]

You didn't say why we can't create a pool of donated domains, like one or domain by each member that are in the two or three hundred dollar range and you keep reverting back to the participants having to deal with worthless or leftover domains, please address this precisely without any diversions.

Please tackle my points you keep skipping post after post.

How many $200 and $300 names have you donated so far? I never said you couldn't. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing anything.

No, I'm not giving my names to people who have no idea what to do with them. They can do what everybody else does, what I already mentioned. Again, we have people from all over the world, all levels of income in this business. Put in the work.

Don't have much money? Grab a coupon, get to it - https://www.namepros.com/forums/domain-coupons-and-offers.358/

Get your hustle on.

 

[oldtimer]

No, I'm not giving my names to people who have no idea what to do with them. They can do what everybody else does, what I already mentioned. Again, we have people from all over the world, all levels of income in this business. Put in the work.

And that's fine if you don't want to donate any domains, are we allowed to find out what everyone else in the forum is willing to donate, and till then any more objections to this project will be baseless. IMO

 

[Ategy]

The biggest challenge facing any potential emerging market domain investing system, is the significantly increased relative registration and renewal fees vs the purchasing power of potential local businesses.

I enjoy success because Western buyers are able to value domains at a significantly higher dollar amount than in emerging markets. It allows me to sell domains that cost me under $20 at closeout for 100x and above ... when considering the 1.5% average sell-through (I'm actually at less because most of my names aren't priced or listed, but I'm still profitable because some of my sales have been over 100x). So that effectively gives me about 50% return on investment ... but move that same sell-through rate over to an economy operating at 1/10, and suddenly you're operating at a huge loss .. SIGNIFICANTLY distant from anything close to breaking even.


This is what I feel is the tragedy with the lifting of pricing regulations on the old gTLD's like .org and even .com ... the argument is being made for existing organisations . .which is fine .. but the real losers are the developing nations who have not yet reached anything close to digital market saturation .. they will be the HUGE losers.

 

[JB Lions]

And that's fine, are we allowed to find out what everyone else in the forum is willing to donate, and till then any more objections to this project will be baseless. IMO

What's baseless is this rah rah stuff, pretending issues don't exist, and dodging them every single post. And when people do bring up potential issues, your typical response is basically a, oh, you don't care about the impoverished. Try being real.

 

[Samer]

What's baseless is this rah rah stuff, pretending issues don't exist, and dodging them every single post. And when people do bring up potential issues, your typical response is basically a, oh, you don't care about the impoverished. Try being real.

Sounds like you’re counting them out, when I believe — the best is yet to come.
You see “rah rah stuff”, I see intelligent discourse.

 

[oldtimer]

What's baseless is this rah rah stuff, pretending issues don't exist, and dodging them every single post. And when people do bring up potential issues, your typical response is basically a, oh, you don't care about the impoverished. Try being real.

I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

 

[JB Lions]

Sounds like you’re counting them out, I believe — the best is yet to come.
You see “rah rah stuff”,I see intelligent discourse.

I haven't counted anybody out. In fact, I've posted many times now we have people from all over the world, all levels of income doing domaining. You do need a little go-getter in your personality. If you want somebody to come and hold your hand, you already failed. This still isn't a mentor or group type business. This is investing, this is competition, this isn't for everybody.

I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

You don't need a poll, you can just do it. Donate yourself. Plus, people can say one thing in a poll, doesn't mean they'll do it.

Let's start with you. Post a name with your next post you're willing to donate, then donate it.

 

[Samer]

I haven't counted anybody out. In fact, I've posted many times now we have people from all over the world, all levels of income doing domaining. You do need a little go-getter in your personality. This still isn't a mentor or group type business. This is investing, this is competition, this isn't for everybody.

I respect you think like that, and get that.

At the same time, I’m sooo much more optimistic.

I think this industry needs change. Plus being from finance, flexibility is never a bad thing...

Innovation, seldom is...

$30 is too low IMO.... it takes away from ”prestige”. DNAcademy itself, sells their course for hundreds. Personally, i have DNAcademy, and i love them.

 

[bmugford]

I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

I would rather donate something more useful personally.

The truth is the average person has absolutely no idea how to extract value from a domain no matter what country they are from, developed or developing.

I think it makes limited sense to "donate" a valuable domain to a party who likely has limited idea what to do with it.

Brad

 

[Ategy]

People seem to be giving @JB Lions a hard time ... it should be noted that I'm pretty sure he's not against the concept of helping people in need .. it's just that, like me .. the process as described so far is just too far from being realistic in any way. It'll be virtually impossible to stop fraudulent applications.

Beyond that .. the supporters of this movement somehow seem to be waving a magical wand and assuming it's anything but an extremely complex mountain to train someone to be a successful domain investor .. then you're also limiting them to a number of domains where even if the 1 in 100 who do climb that mountain will then need to roll a specific number on a 50 sided dice in order to break even.

The math .. the math .. the math ... it unfortunately just does not work here .. and that's just on the surface .. as you start to spell it all out there are added details that will actually reveal more odds against.

And it's not like the math even comes close .. it's so incredibly far off from working that it worries me how some see the model in it's current form could work.

The vast majority of domainers just don't make money .. it's just a sad unfortunate reality .. even if you have a great domain course .. most of the people coming out of that will not be successful because there are other important elements people must have a good grasp of in order to even have a chance of succeeding.


As I've mentioned above .. there are ways to improve the math .. but improving it does not mean good enough to work.


It seems now there's also talk of maybe using domains donated before they expire .. but it's got to be asked if a domainer allows a domain to expire, then is it really wise to suggest a newcomer renew it? When in fact it would actually cost them significantly more personal economic clout than the domainer who was going to let it expire? ($8.49 to someone in a developing nation is astronomically more expensive than it is to me here in Canada or someone in the EU or US)


I also saw the proposed form above and based on that it seems the target audience for the proposed program has shifted signifcantly to people who have already sold domains? I don't get that part? Seems like nothing about this is set .. and to be honest, it's feedback we leave now might not even apply to how the program will be in 12 hours!? lol


I'd love to leave more feedback and helpful suggestions, but so much has changed in the time I was at work! lol


Before even getting to the rest of the mathematical implausible stuff, I'm still really curious as to how there will be any realistic way to stop fraudulent applications?

 

[wwwweb]

Seems like the poll is very polarized atm ... half of the people think it is good idea, half of the people think the very opposite.

I am trying but honestly still do not understand how can $30 (or $300) in domaining change someone's life ...if that would be other field of human activity (let's say someone needs to plant their fields and just need those initial $30 to buy first seeds, from which they will have crop and thus new seeds to repeat the process, etc, I would understand that.

But domaining does NOT require initial capital, it requires time, effort, drive and energy to study.

If someone is without funds, they can BROKER already existing portfolia ... and they can get commision if they make a sale.

So why do you guys want someone to take your $30, and to register some names, for which (because they will be handregs) they will in average get let's say $400 IF they ever resell them? In the same time, with same effort and same energy someone can (with $0 capital required) broker some of my names (for example) .. and if sold succesfully, they can get MUCH MORE then anything they could ever get from those $30.

But that would require lot of study, lot of energy, and focus on non .com names imo (why non .com ? Because for premium .com names we already have enough brokers, competition is huge there, while even my grandmother can broker name like hotel / com and achieve 7 figures for it, it is not a miracle). But to actively sell new gTLDs let's say via Linkedin is much much harder (it requires knowledge, end users will be asking many things), and this is where I see potential for future, because competition is still very low there, so even new people can enter there quickly and have success ..

So I would forget the $30 idea, and I would better focus to train people to be domain brokers, that will have much more value longterm, both for you and them ... just my 2 cents

You have to learn to walk before you can run.

Who in their right mind is going to let some newbie run loose, and broker valuable domains who doesn’t have much experience. Especially someone from a third world country known for scams, and where English is not their native language.

This is graduated learning, it takes years to figure out what sells, how to make money on the buy. Many good names teeter on TM’s, and you have to be very careful how you engage.

I get calls everyday from people trying to sell website services etc, as do others, and they are screened to the point of no return.

I really think this program has merits, as there are a lot of inquiries coming out of Nigeria, and Indonesia, but they need guidance on how to sell, and stay away from marks like “realtor” etc... it’s nice to see regional ambassadors who understand such regions, and nationalities.

Domaining has a huge learning curve, with a high failure rate, I think teaching most how to create affiliate, and commission revenue sites is probably a better way to go, flipping subpar inventory via email marketing is very difficult.

 

[oldtimer]

You don't need a poll, you can just do it. Donate yourself. Plus, people can say one thing in a poll, doesn't mean they'll do it.

Let's start with you. Post a name with your next post you're willing to donate, then donate it. Step up to the plate.

People can pledge the domains that they want to donate in the poll thread, which I also will include the domain that I want to donate at that time, as far as people backing out of their pledge I believe you are not giving that much credit to the many long standing members here. End of discussion for now.

 

[Rob Monster]

I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

Some domain investors are benevolent. Those who are benevolent may choose to unload some number of non-strategic domains, with or without a tax benefit, because they believe in an idea. Great.

Other domainers are selfish but rational. They have expiry streams that go to Snapnames which gives them no value whatsoever. It would be entirely rational to send an expiry stream for charitable good.

And some domainers are selfish and irrational. Some will make money. Some will find fulfillment. Some will grow old and wait to die. Pity.

 

[bmugford]

Some domain investors are benevolent. Those who are benevolent may choose to unload some number of non-strategic domains, with or without a tax benefit, because they believe in an idea. Great.

Other domainers are selfish but rational. They have expiry streams that go to Snapnames which gives them no value whatsoever. It would be entirely rational to send an expiry stream for charitable good.

And some domainers are selfish and irrational. Some will make money. Some will find fulfillment. Some will grow old and wait to die. Pity.

Well, to start with giving limited choices like that is a logical fallacy.

There are plenty of other options. For instance, benevolent and rational.

Many people run successful businesses and also donate or give to good causes. Maybe they think this idea is dubious and has limited chance of success for a large number of reasons.

Brad

 

[Rob Monster]

Well, to start with giving limited choices like that is a logical fallacy.

There are plenty of other options. For instance, benevolent and rational.

Many people run successful businesses and also donate or give to good causes. Maybe they think this idea is dubious and has limited chance of success for a large number of reasons.

Brad

It seems we might be conflating two related topics:

(1) The Microfinance program which Epik has already started but which could potentially be spun out into a non-profit, registrar-independent cooperative.

(2) The "Goodwill for Domains" initiative where persons could contribute domains that can be sold with proceeds funding Digital Empowerment grants. This is still a concept.

It seems you are doubting whether a meaningful number of existing domain investors will take sufficient interest in supporting through time, talent or treasure, the prospect of helping emerging market domainer newbies to get started. Like @Xabial, I am an optimist -- an incurable optimist.

As a veteran entrepreneur, I know very well that there will always be early adopters, late adopters and non-adopters. However, if 40% of the domaining population love the idea and 25% of those people are prepared to execute on their instincts, there is a solid 10% prepared to start a movement. It is enough.

As mentioned, we are going to put a big emphasis on education and structural best practices to make sure folks don't blow their nest-egg on crap. That helps nobody. We agree there.

 

[Ategy]

Did I miss something along the way (or while I was at work .. lol)?

I thought the point of microfinance programs was that they actually be about empowerment and not be charity. Where did domain donations come into the discussion anyhow? Originally I thought this was supposed to be mostly self-sustaining? Doesn't relying on donations somewhat defeat the point? If we'd be donating domains then why would they need funding?

No offence to people honestly trying to do something here, but given the spectacular odds against success in the domain industry by newcomers .. the sad truth is that any donations would be vastly more effective in donating directly to a school in one of the targeted countries?

I specifically do NOT want or suggest or encourage anybody to grab most of the domains I'd let expire. Particularly when the renewal fee, while being the same dollar amount, is vastly more significant to them compared to what that same ($8.49) amount is to me. If I'm not going to renew something that represents minutes of work to me, then most definitely someone for whom $8.49 represents a week of work should not renew it.


*Lost and confused and in need of a clear summary of what exactly is actually being proposed NOW (not 5 minutes ago .. lol) .. I'm worried some of us are disagreeing with the distinct possibility we aren't even talking about the same thing anymore.