discuss Domain Microfinance Program

[Rob Monster]

As some folks here know, I am a big fan of Digital Empowerment projects that scale.

Over the last year, I have seen lives transformed by people becoming successful domain investors on a bootstrap.

I have been discussing with a few folks about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs.

This could be a Digital Empowerment strategy for helping people to bootstrap domain portfolios. The idea was inspired by a discussion with a young Angolan.

The idea is this:

- People apply to get a microfinance grant. To get the grant, they have to verify their identity. This is done in order to prevent repeat applicants.

- Domains registered are limited to .com. With a budget of as little as $30, right now that is about 5 .com domains at a promo rate of just $5.49.

- The domains are powered by an SSL powered landing pages which domain owners can optimize and then use to sell or lease.

- Once the grant participants generate a certain level of sales or leases, e.g. $100, they can request an interest-free domain loan based on their portfolio.

 

[DU]

I already know how this is going to turn out. It'll be interesting to watch. There are much better ways to help people out.

It's a modern phenomenon that people think that a lack of funds is the only barrier to success.
A few pennies and a dream and the world is yours!

Micro-financing and similar programs have been around for a while and they don't work.

This is a form of Western Noblesse-oblige within a capitalist system. It doesn't make sense.

There are much better ways to help people out.

 

[Rob Monster]

I know you have been giving Epik credit rewards for pointing out bugs with the system or for giving suggestions for names for your new projects, perhaps you can also give an award to those who come up with the best ideas and ways to implement your new projects, that might get you more input, specially if you set a higher award for ideas that you are actually going to use.

We do it informally already. The Digital Empowerment grants will probably add some fuel to that practice of incentivizing co-creation. We can't help everyone, but we'll do our bit.

 

[jberryhill]

I bless domains down in Africa.

 

[Samer]

Bless you, Rob from down here in New Jersey.

 

[Rob Monster]

It's a modern phenomenon that people think that a lack of funds is the only barrier to success.
A few pennies and a dream and the world is yours!

Micro-financing and similar programs have been around for a while and they don't work.

This is a form of Western Noblesse-oblige within a capitalist system. It doesn't make sense.

There are much better ways to help people out.

@DU is certainly a hardened and determined skeptic.

As for the Microfinance story, the best known case study is Grameen. I think it did a lot of good. I think they could have used more technology to scale it, but I would still call it a success story:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/27271539/Grameen-Bank-a-Case-Study

There are many case studies about it and I certainly hope we can draw upon any experience folks have there. @Abdullah Abdullah was mostly working with UN refugee programs in Yemen.

Also, Rajkumar Prasad, aka @ERaj, is a person with a lot of experience working with aid agencies and government ministries. He is Epik's GM in India, working on the Indian subcontinent.

So, yes, I do think free market capitalism can work to lift some folks up. That's the game plan. If f folks want to contribute, they can.

The name search is also in progress for what I call the "Goodwill of Domains".

https://www.namepros.com/threads/the-goodwill-of-domains.1155109

 

[Rob Monster]

Open an office, hire them, give them an actual job if you want to help. This is a disaster in the making.

I can you missed it -- I did hire @Abdullah Abdullah. He got a pay raise.

As for the topic of giving out Digital Empowerment grants, and seeding private domain portfolios with a kickstarter, we'll try not to break the bank. However, as we see donated domains sell, I think we'll be sure to put that money to work.

 

[oldtimer]

I did hire @Abdullah Abdullah. He got a pay raise.

Congrats @Abdullah Abdullah ,

Maybe NamePros mods aren't such bad guys after all.

Rob, how many people have you hired due to your recent projects, and how many more are you planning to hire in the near future, It looks like you are already empowering several people even before the project has started.

 

[Rob Monster]

Congrats @Abdullah Abdullah ,

Maybe NamePros mods aren't such bad guys after all.

Rob, how many people have you hired due to your recent projects, and how many more are you planning to hire in the near future, It looks like you are already empowering several people even before the project has started.

There are no particular hiring slots. We just look for amazing people that feel called or inspired to come work with us and where there is some compelling basis for sustainable win-win. @franka46 is actively scouting but mostly it will be driven by whether talent shows up for which we can derive some projectable ROI beyond what it costs to sustain their cost. We'll be largely promoting from within but we'll be on the lookout for middle management candidates that we know well enough to have confidence that they would be a good fit. We are about 30 people now, and I would not be surprised if we are 300 in 2 years. However, that is just a guess, and it will be driven "talent meets opportunity" rather than a set hiring plan.

 

[franka46]

I think there is more to it then just ''micro financing”. It's about giving young people — boys and girls -- a chance to develop their skills . We are mainly targeting developing countries where the chance for young entrepreneurs to improve their lives are very difficult .For them to be able to own a domain name and develop or sell it would boost their self-confidence. Some comments were made that $30 of domains would not be enough, better $300 they say .. But these people earn $100 per month, if lucky enough to have a job, and so $30 is a lot of money and they will have a chance to double it, not lose the money.

 

[JB Lions]

I think there is more to it then just ''micro financing”. It's about giving young people — boys and girls -- a chance to develop their skills . We are mainly targeting developing countries where the chance for young entrepreneurs to improve their lives are very difficult .For them to be able to own a domain name and develop or sell it would boost their self-confidence. Some comments were made that $30 of domains would not be enough, better $300 they say .. But these people earn $100 per month, if lucky enough to have a job, and so $30 is a lot of money and they will have a chance to double it, not lose the money.

What skills? If they had already existing domaining skills, they already would be making money. What happens to their self confidence when they don't get sales? Again, they'll be using hand regs or domains other domainers couldn't sell. Is this going to be a case where Epik buys some of these early domains, prime the pump, getting people excited? It still doesn't address all the issues brought up.

However, as we see donated domains sell, I think we'll be sure to put that money to work.

Again, domains that domainers couldn't sell but magically will start being sold by somebody completely new to this?

While I'm here, this nonsense:

Congrats @Abdullah Abdullah ,

Maybe NamePros mods aren't such bad guys after all.

Rob, how many people have you hired due to your recent projects, and how many more are you planning to hire in the near future, It looks like you are already empowering several people even before the project has started.

Not once have I said he was a bad guy, very dishonest posting on your part. I actually think he's a good mod from what I could tell. I said registrar employees shouldn't be mods, across the board.

Again, if you truly want to help somebody, try something considered a bit more steady. Like a job, a trade. Not investing in domains.

 

[Rob Monster]

What skills? If they had already existing domaining skills, they already would be making money. What happens to their self confidence when they don't get sales? Again, they'll be using hand regs or domains other domainers couldn't sell. Is this going to be a case where Epik buys some of these early domains, prime the pump, getting people excited? It still doesn't address all the issues brought up.



Again, domains that domainers couldn't sell but magically will start being sold by somebody completely new to this?

While I'm here, this nonsense:



Not once have I said he was a bad guy, very dishonest posting on your part. I said registrar employees shouldn't be mods, across the board.

@JB Lions - Here is what you either don't get, or are deliberately overlooking for reasons I don't know.

Two points:

Many of these folks live in countries where there is not just poverty. There is also extreme wealth. There are successful business owners. They need .COM domains too. Who will bring them to them? Well, why not locals. If a new 5-star luxury resort hotel is being permitted in Bali, would you know that? I wouldn't. A local might. Well, that local can secure the perfect domain and bring it to the resort operator's attention. Win-win.

The rate limiting time for finding domain buyers is often time -- time to pore over drop lists, and time to see who is the logical buyer for these domains. With 100,000 .COM dropping every day, there are plenty of domains that are being dropped and not picked up. There are also plenty being dropped by the big dropcatchers because they got no traction for $3000 or whatever. Buy for $5, sell for $100 or whatever.

This is a story of crawl, walk, run. If that bores you, so be it.

 

[JB Lions]

@JB Lions - Here is what you either don't get, or are deliberately overlooking for reasons I don't know.

Two points:

Many of these folks live in countries where there is not just poverty. There is also extreme wealth. There are successful business owners. They need .COM domains too. Who will bring them to them? Well, why not locals. If a new 5-star luxury resort hotel is being permitted in Bali, would you know that? I wouldn't. A local might. Well, that local can secure the perfect domain and bring it to the resort operator's attention. Win-win.

The rate limiting time for finding domain buyers is often time -- time to pore over drop lists, and time to see who is the logical buyer for these domains. With 100,000 .COM dropping every day, there are plenty of domains that are being dropped and not picked up. There are also plenty being dropped by the big dropcatchers because they got no traction for $3000 or whatever. Buy for $5, sell for $100 or whatever.

This is a story of crawl, walk, run. If that bores you, so be it.

This is more nonsense posting.

They need .coms...........then they can buy them now. They can't buy them because they were never sold by poverty stricken folks that never sold a domain in their life? What? And people who buy 5 star luxury hotels don't know about buying domains? Having a site?

Then people completely new to this are going to find gems in those 100,000 that actual experienced domainers can't? And what is stopping them now from doing that? Again, people from those countries are already doing that, some already posting in this forum.

 

[Brands.International]

Seems like the poll is very polarized atm ... half of the people think it is good idea, half of the people think the very opposite.

I am trying but honestly still do not understand how can $30 (or $300) in domaining change someone's life ...if that would be other field of human activity (let's say someone needs to plant their fields and just need those initial $30 to buy first seeds, from which they will have crop and thus new seeds to repeat the process, etc, I would understand that.

But domaining does NOT require initial capital, it requires time, effort, drive and energy to study.

If someone is without funds, they can BROKER already existing portfolia ... and they can get commision if they make a sale.

So why do you guys want someone to take your $30, and to register some names, for which (because they will be handregs) they will in average get let's say $400 IF they ever resell them? In the same time, with same effort and same energy someone can (with $0 capital required) broker some of my names (for example) .. and if sold succesfully, they can get MUCH MORE then anything they could ever get from those $30.

But that would require lot of study, lot of energy, and focus on non .com names imo (why non .com ? Because for premium .com names we already have enough brokers, competition is huge there, while even my grandmother can broker name like hotel / com and achieve 7 figures for it, it is not a miracle). But to actively sell new gTLDs let's say via Linkedin is much much harder (it requires knowledge, end users will be asking many things), and this is where I see potential for future, because competition is still very low there, so even new people can enter there quickly and have success ..

So I would forget the $30 idea, and I would better focus to train people to be domain brokers, that will have much more value longterm, both for you and them ... just my 2 cents

 

[Rob Monster]

This is more nonsense posting.

They need .coms...........then they can buy them now. They can't buy them because they were never sold by poverty stricken folks that never sold a domain in their life? What? And people who buy 5 star luxury hotels don't know about buying domains? Having a site?

Then people completely new to this are going to find gems in those 100,000 that actual experienced domainers can't? And what is stopping them now from doing that? Again, people from those countries are already doing that, some already posting in this forum.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was providing illustrative examples that reflect two patterns: (1) local market knowledge, being applied to tap local excess wealth, and (2) labor arbitrage from countries where labor is far cheaper than western economies. Of course this makes too much sense. Cheers. The majority think you are a spoilsport. I agree.

Nevertheless, keep with the specific outlining of pitfalls, and we can try to work through them. However, if the agenda is simply subversive, we'll just ignore you.

 

[JB Lions]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was providing illustrative examples that reflect two patterns: (1) local market knowledge, being applied to tap local excess wealth, and (2) labor arbitrage from countries where labor is far cheaper than western economies. Of course this makes too much sense. Cheers. The majority think you are a spoilsport. I agree.

Show attachment 129695

Nevertheless, keep with the specific outlining of pitfalls, and we can try to work through them. However, if the agenda is simply subversive, we'll just ignore you.

Have you also seen the poll on how many people are hobbyists vs. how many do this for a living? So quoting that poll is pretty pointless. And if my points being brought were nonsense, you would have taken them apart by now, you can't.

lolwarriors's post makes more sense. Give them a job, train them to find leads for domains. Federer does that I believe, Uniregistry brokers I believe all take the DNacademy course. You want to bring them into a high failure business instead? Trying to sell hand regs and domains other domainers can't sell?

 

[oldtimer]

Not once have I said he was a bad guy, very dishonest posting on your part. I actually think he's a good mod from what I could tell. I said registrar employees shouldn't be mods, across the board.

You bring up a few good points and then out of nowhere you make a comment that sounds a little strange, I didn't even remember what you had said when I made that comment about the Mods.

Why is everyone at each other's throat in the thread. You can't a even make a little joke when congratulating someone.

 

[oldtimer]

I would better focus to train people to be domain brokers, that will have much more value longterm, both for you and them ... just my 2 cents

That's a good idea that perhaps can complement this project at some point in the future, but I believe that if they start by selling out of the donated domain pool to begin with is a better way to train them. Everyone assumes that the domain pool is going to be made up of domains that have no value that people just threw away, so why not conduct a poll to see what kind of domains people here are willing to donate as far as quality and value, before making any judgments. Remember people don't have to donate hundreds of domains, just 2 or 3 good ones that have some resale potentials, considering the large number of well off domainers on this forum even if each person donated one good domain that can add up to be a big pool.

 

[franka46]

@JB Lions - Here is what you either don't get, or are deliberately overlooking for reasons I don't know.

Two points:

Many of these folks live in countries where there is not just poverty. There is also extreme wealth. There are successful business owners. They need .COM domains too. Who will bring them to them? Well, why not locals. If a new 5-star luxury resort hotel is being permitted in Bali, would you know that? I wouldn't. A local might. Well, that local can secure the perfect domain and bring it to the resort operator's attention. Win-win.

The rate limiting time for finding domain buyers is often time -- time to pore over drop lists, and time to see who is the logical buyer for these domains. With 100,000 .COM dropping every day, there are plenty of domains that are being dropped and not picked up. There are also plenty being dropped by the big dropcatchers because they got no traction for $3000 or whatever. Buy for $5, sell for $100 or whatever.

This is a story of crawl, walk, run. If that bores you, so be it.

@JB Lions - Here is what you either don't get, or are deliberately overlooking for reasons I don't know.

Two points:

Many of these folks live in countries where there is not just poverty. There is also extreme wealth. There are successful business owners. They need .COM domains too. Who will bring them to them? Well, why not locals. If a new 5-star luxury resort hotel is being permitted in Bali, would you know that? I wouldn't. A local might. Well, that local can secure the perfect domain and bring it to the resort operator's attention. Win-win.

The rate limiting time for finding domain buyers is often time -- time to pore over drop lists, and time to see who is the logical buyer for these domains. With 100,000 .COM dropping every day, there are plenty of domains that are being dropped and not picked up. There are also plenty being dropped by the big dropcatchers because they got no traction for $3000 or whatever. Buy for $5, sell for $100 or whatever.

This is a story of crawl, walk, run. If that bores you, so be it.

This is more nonsense posting.

They need .coms...........then they can buy them now. They can't buy them because they were never sold by poverty stricken folks that never sold a domain in their life? What? And people who buy 5 star luxury hotels don't know about buying domains? Having a site?

Then people completely new to this are going to find gems in those 100,000 that actual experienced domainers can't? And what is stopping them now from doing that? Again, people from those countries are already doing that, some already posting in this forum.

JBL ,,I have been domaining for about 12 years ,99.9% handregistered ,I like to do things my way ,use my gutfeeling to find domains that sell .I have never made a fortune but at 72 years of age ,my enthusiasm and selfesteem is still sky high and I have managed to sell some domains too .I have over 1000 now and I know what you going to tell me "" if you had invested that money in a proper domain [$10k +] you would have made more money .I dont need to make more money ,I enjoy ""'The Thrill of The Pick "" use your own imagination in chosing a domain that sells .We are not all 'Loaded';
But like with every domain forum ,there are always people who know everything ,fail to see the big picture ,dont see things from another person's view .
If young kids cannot handle not being able to sell a domain and they give up ,then they have a problem .
I have been motivating young people in Bali for 10 years ,in China for many years ,all loved to listen to my stories without feeling patronized by me.
I always tell them to remember the 3 L's "Look Listen and learn "

 

[JB Lions]

JBL ,,I have been domaining for about 12 years ,99.9% handregistered ,I like to do things my way ,use my gutfeeling to find domains that sell .I have never made a fortune but at 72 years of age ,my enthusiasm and selfesteem is still sky high and I have managed to sell some domains too .I have over 1000 now and I know what you going to tell me "" if you had invested that money in a proper domain [$10k +] you would have made more money .I dont need to make more money ,I enjoy ""'The Thrill of The Pick "" use your own imagination in chosing a domain that sells .We are not all 'Loaded';
But like with every domain forum ,there are always people who know everything ,fail to see the big picture ,dont see things from another person's view .
If young kids cannot handle not being able to sell a domain and they give up ,then they have a problem .
I have been motivating young people in Bali for 10 years ,in China for many years ,all loved to listen to my stories without feeling patronized by me.
I always tell them to remember the 3 L's "Look Listen and learn "

Great, except yet again, doesn't touch any of this:

$30 to people who are broke, in poverty, where English isn't their native language, in a business where:

$30 isn't enough money usually

high failure rate

hand regs or other domainer's leftovers, names they want to drop, will be even harder to sell, than let's say an aftermarket pickup

most names will probably never get an offer, or could take years

It seems people just want to jump all around that with a lot of rah rah stuff but not taking an honest look at those issues. I don't think anybody has taken apart each point. How do you get past the high failure rate? How are they supposed to sell domains, other domainers can't? You guys very well know some domains will never get offers, some it might take years. Hand regs, other people's leftovers, the odds even worse.

-----------------
Give them a job. They can take money earned and try their hand at domaining. I wouldn't suggest these people try their hand at buying stocks, crypto etc. either.

"I have over 1000 now and I know what you going to tell me "" if you had invested that money in a proper domain [$10k +] you would have made more money ."

I've never spent that much myself on a domain, it's rare I even go over $1,000. You find what works for you. I would have suggested instead of 99.9% hand regs, jumping in the Aftermarket and getting names a few hundred and under and selling them for 4 figures and up. That's very doable.

 

[oldtimer]

jumping in the Aftermarket and getting names a few hundred and under and selling them for 4 figures and up. That's very doable.

You are right about buying at few hundred dollars in the Aftermarket and selling for four figures to end users being very doable, many people here are doing it everyday.

How many members here with large portfolios do you think will be willing to donate a two or three hundred dollar domain to the pool that can be sold by the participants in the program for double or more, that's what we need to find out, and if you say that no one is going to donate even one domain then I guess the domain Industry is not what we all thought it was.