discuss Domain Microfinance Program

[Rob Monster]

As some folks here know, I am a big fan of Digital Empowerment projects that scale.

Over the last year, I have seen lives transformed by people becoming successful domain investors on a bootstrap.

I have been discussing with a few folks about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs.

This could be a Digital Empowerment strategy for helping people to bootstrap domain portfolios. The idea was inspired by a discussion with a young Angolan.

The idea is this:

- People apply to get a microfinance grant. To get the grant, they have to verify their identity. This is done in order to prevent repeat applicants.

- Domains registered are limited to .com. With a budget of as little as $30, right now that is about 5 .com domains at a promo rate of just $5.49.

- The domains are powered by an SSL powered landing pages which domain owners can optimize and then use to sell or lease.

- Once the grant participants generate a certain level of sales or leases, e.g. $100, they can request an interest-free domain loan based on their portfolio.

 

[Samer]

The content will likely move to an Epik-branded host. The navigation is really elegant and the production quality of the videos is A+.

I love acquisition news, more than news of new Epik features, added (like Payoneer etc...) frequently. Does that make me heartless lol? M&A FTW!!

Very exciting. To more... Much more. Next stop... Buy NameSilo (URLOF) trading for, 32 cents, OTC?

 

[oldtimer]

All participants will have free access to all courses.

Are you going to make it available to your over 300 fans here at a discount.

 

[JB Lions]

Are you going to also make it available to your over 300 fans here at a discount.

You can get input from members here that have already tried it out. Just do some Namepros searches on the keywords posted above, troy rushton, nameinvestors etc. I've been reading some of it.

 

[oldtimer]

You can get input from members here that have already tried it out. Just do some Namepros searches on the keywords posted above, troy rushton, nameinvestors etc. I've been reading some of it.

Domaining is mostly a hobby for me that keeps my mind active and helps expand my vocabulary so that I can write about my favorite subjects such as the Environment, Free Speech, and AI. I have been reading the forum and blogs for many years now and I probably know most of the stuff subconsciously, so I was asking for other domainers who have become fans of Epik (but thanks anyway).

 

[oldtimer]

you have to ask yourself is it the right thing to get people to do when the vast majority will not succeed?

This is a very valid point,

But for those who don't have any opportunities open to them, they might consider this program to be a blessing. Also even if they fail to make any money, but at the very least they will get some interaction with others (like with the people in this forum) and might learn some basic skills which will help enhance their communication, public relation, and sales abilities which they then might be able to use in a totally different field. IMO

PS: The thousands of people who might have left domaining throughout the years perhaps left as smarter and more skillful people than when they started even if they failed to make a full time job for themselves in the domain Industry. IMO

 

[Samer]

Once again, Congrats on the acquisition, Epik! Quick glance...

NameInvestors.com looks beautiful. But missing an "About me" page, which I think would do wonders, considering everything else, looks top-notch.

As I keep saying, Thank you for the transparency and commitment, to protecting your clients,
I worry about angry mob, lurking around the corner..

 

[oldtimer]

(the cart is already past the finish line .. and the horse isn't even in the start-gate yet .. lol)!

NO !!! (Sorry for the shock value boldness .. lol)

When I look at the math of this .. I see it like one of those big companies that on-board 1000 unpaid interns for 6 months .. then shine a light on how they hired 5 of them at the end of 6 months.

Completely overlooking the fact that 995 of them did not succeed .. and (VERY IMPORTANTLY) that most of those don't have any future in that related business and as such would have benefited significantly more if they had done something else for those 6 months to advance their personal growth and/or education towards something with an actual realistic chance of success (doesn't have to be 100% ... but again ... success in domaining is about 1%)


I do think that there are better and smarter paths to prosperity than domaining in the way we do it. But that doesn't mean they can't try to sell existing digital products and services (like for Epik for example as I specified above).

Generic sales is not easy .. but the numbers and math makes vastly more sense than "domaining". I think if Rob's latest developing nation hires actually focused on building small sales teams dedicated to selling hosting, mail, web+app development AND a domain (handreg .. maybe charge a little fee for branding advice .. but nothing significant as it has to be realistic package that makes sense to developing economy business owners), then that would have a better chance of succeeding .. and the actual direct (face to face) contact with the salespeople would vastly reduce potential fraud. Most importantly, it would mean actually tangibly growing into these emerging regions ... where as domain investors would (and should) likely focus on domains intended for first-world end-user resell.

I think just like most conventional salespeople, more will likely fail in selling such "digital presence packages" than succeed (depends a lot on the screening/interview process) .. but it won't be anything close to the failure rate in domain speculation .. and more importantly, it wouldn't take nearly as much wasted time to know if it's something you'll be good at or not ... whereas someone entering domaining could take months or years before knowing if they are good or not .. particularly when working on a very limited budget.

Again .. i'm NOT saying it's impossible for some to succeed and even thrive .. I'm just saying that for every one that does .. there will be an unforgivingly large number of people who don't ... and who will waste a lot of time and energy and HOPE in trying to figure that out.

it's really your subconscious that needs to be trained so that you can know the right order and value of all the important keywords in all the different extensions, and to be able to get a feel for what makes for a good brandable domain, or have the knowledge to sift through all the numeric and 3 or 4 letter domains to find the gems and that takes many years. But the right training course will at least set some guidelines so you won't have to repeat the same mistakes that others before you have made and it's a quick way to learn some sales skills. I assume that the participants are going to be selling domains from a pool of donated and expiry stream domains that will be heavily refined by @Rob Monster and his staff, so that the participants can concentrate their efforts on selling, as far as expanding this to marketing web presence packages goes that's a good idea and is probably not out of the question either at some point in the future. IMO

 

[Ategy]

it's really your subconscious that needs to be trained so that you can know the right order and value of all the important keywords in all the different extensions, and to be able to get a feel for what makes for a good brandable domain, or have the knowledge to sift through all the numeric and 3 or 4 letter domains to find the gems and that takes many years.

You just really don't want to see the pure facts and math for what they are do you?

Trust me .. I really admire what's trying to be done here. I am a VERY VERY strong believer that the solution to a large portion of the world's problems is in bringing education and economic hope to developing nations. It will reduce war, terrorism, hunger, violence, and the list goes on and on. It's not just an admirible goal .. it's the ULTIMATE goal to saving the planet.

However .. getting "a feel for what makes a good brandable domain ... " is something that only a very tiny percentage of people who attempt it end up being successful at. It's not my opinion that most people fail ... IT'S A FACT THAT MOST PEOPLE FAIL ... and that despite the huge amount of existing resources available everyone.

Sure you can come up with a great course and maybe by some miracle double the success rate ... the unfortunate FACT is that you'll still have a failure rate of over 90% (likely well over 90%). I want to be very very clear that this is not an opinion .. IT IS FACT! Look around you .. be honest .. what percentage of people who attempt domaining become successful? If say any number anything close to or above 10% then you are either a liar (which I doubt), or just are completely disconnected with reality (my bet is that if you truly look around and are honest with yourself, you'll come back with a number of 5% and quite a bit lower if you really think about it). I'm not trying to piss in everyone's cornflakes of what on the surface appears like a really nice idea ... it's just an unfortunate FACT that the MATH in this plan is not realistic in any way.

Anyhow .. I've got to get to work on tomorrow's lists .. don't really see the point in continuing this as I'm just looking like the bad guy and it's impossible to make a point when people refuse to look at actual facts, math and reality. I really wish I wasn't the one who had to say all that ... but the vast majority of people who try, fail domaining ... FACT .. PERIOD. (and I'm sorry .. lol)

 

[Mister Funsky]

That's effectively cybersquatting and trademark infringement when you target someone's business and then outbound to them (even without outbounding and holding something so specific is really past the line).

There isn't a single UDRP panellist that wouldn't find someone guilty for holding such a specific and targeted domain .. and they would be 100% correct in their finding.

Obviously nobody is going to bother paying the $2000 for a UDRP when they can buy it for $75 ... but that doesn't mean that it's not wrong (and has potential to significantly tarnish the industry as a whole if this is done at scale) .. or even illegal ... but even more importantly .. even with such targetted names many people will simply not buy the domains at a markup when they could buy several similar alternatives for handreg.

Effectively, most of what is you are saying is opinion. 'Illegal'...seriously?!? Lets just agree to disagree as opinions on both sides are like...well, you know.

I will, however, continue to use your links to send you money via godaddy auctions.

 

[wwwweb]

Quick update.

We also are acquiring Sean Stafford's Domain Graduate program:

http://domaingraduate.com/

Sean is an industry veteran with great experience. He will consult for Epik to help develop the integrated digital curriculum. We worked out the deal this morning.

Pretty impressive Epik just got into the Domain Education space just like that with this purchase, and the purchase of NameBrokers.com, things move quickly.

 

[oldtimer]

You don't want any direct legal exposure in Switzerland as long as you are going to have this on your site:

The Swiss government would have at least two, if not three (if you count use of the word "bank"), issues with that.

https://www.rentschpartner.ch/en/trademark-law/swissness/amendment-of-the-law

This is a very valid point, depending on how far @Rob Monster wants Epik to grow perhaps it's a good idea to rethink the use of this logo before it attracts any negative attention from the Swiss Authorities.

The other Alternative would be for him to try to get an exemption from the Swiss Government based on the Digital Empowerment Program and the Charity work that he is doing, but that's going to be a one in a million shot as it seems that they are very strict about their logo. IMO

@jberryhill , Do you recommend asking for permission.

 

[Ategy]

It's not a question on if they agree or disagree .. it's that they are effectively using their flag as a trademark to protect the (so-called) good will of their "brand".

While I'm not really sure that they really could do anything about anyone using "swiss" or their flag in the USA or some other jurisdiction, the moment you want to operate in their country (and possibly even all of the EU depending on rules/treaties related to TM's within the EU) then you need ot play by their rules. Which is that:
"Services are considered as being Swiss if the provider’s headquarters are situated in Switzerland and the company is actually administered from Switzerland."

All that said, while Epik might be a big deal to domainers, in terms of global corporations they likely aren't really in the radar of whatever department of the Swiss Government is responsible for this sort of thing. But might be a safe idea to think of a new slogan in advance of any potential future trouble.


@jberryhill .. now that you're here .. could you confirm my thoughts on the first little bits of these posts above?
https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-microfinance-program.1154715/page-8#post-7406780
https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-microfinance-program.1154715/page-9#post-7407411

Commenting on this:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-microfinance-program.1154715/page-8#post-7406728

I just want to be sure I'm not giving bad info ...

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Is he resigning as mod?

Yes of course JB.

 

[Ategy]

I should think you would be more supportive of 'fringe' type domains since you so often put them in you daily lists (some with and some without a TM warning). Careful where those rocks are tossed!

There are 3 basic rules for my lists at NameCult:

1- Just because a domain is on my list does NOT mean you should buy it.
2- Just because a domain is on my list does NOT mean you should buy it.
3- If you buy a domain, please use my affiliate links.

Here is 1 other basic rule of domaining:

1- You are ALWAYS responsible for the domains you purchase, never rely on anyone else to do your due diligence.

Seriously .. every day I list what I feel are the most notable and interesting domains at auction. Some people (including myself) SPECIFICALLY like to follow what happens with TM domains. I try to mark the most obvious ones for educational purposes .. but my lists are so long that I most certainly will not find them all.

While most of the domains on my list are decent to amazing domains, please never EVER assume that just because a domain is on my list that I recommend anyone buy it. Often times for TM reasons .. but also often times because of pricing. I might put a domain on my list when there are no bids .. and maybe think it COULD be a good buy at closeout .. but probably not if it gets a lot of bids and goes up in price.

Sometimes I even put up domains because they are funny. And there are some domains that I put up that already have a lot of bids that I simply do not understand and would actually recommend you NOT buy them unless you understand why others see value in them (there are a lot of JS###.com domains that go for huge money .. I'm assuming because of pinyin/chinese reasons .. but who know .. I'm too busy making the lists to really look into it)


Back to the topic at hand .. unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do about being supportive or not ... it's about the law.

Doing outbound to a [name]+[specific/refined business type] will always lead to the 3rd requirement of a UDRP case going to the complainant.

It even has nothing to do with whether I personally think it's wrong or right. If you target a business with a unique name with outbound and there is zero generic value in the name otherwise, then you will lose a UDRP unless you have the same name and business.

There are most certainly sales of these types of domains all the time .. mainly because the buyer isn't aware of UDRP's .. or more likely because they buy the domain for a price that's less than the bother of going the legal route [education+time+cost].

The reason I tagged @jberryhill is that I'm effectively 99% sure .. what I'm not sure about is if that person's company were named something else when you contacted him .. I'm pretty sure that could still qualify if you're outbounding .. but I'm not 100% and wanted to be sure.


But in general there are also cases where it could be borderline .. There are also cases where many think a domain is a TM infringement but it isn't .. and vice-versa.

In the end, this sort of domain most certainly should not be any part of the foundation of a large-scale program for newcomers. Your original thoughts of Geo+Business would be a safer bet .. although as I said .. in the end it comes down to a lot of handreg alternatives .. so while being completely legal and TM-worry-free .. simply not the best investments given the lower markups in developing countries vs markups in developed countries.

That's why I think the "Salesman" approach would be better in many ways. As part of the package, the salesperson most certainly could suggest the business person buy Name+Business (at handreg and hopefully as part of a package that includes hosting, email, development, etc)


I have always (well .. for the past 2 years or so since I started to see and think about TM domains/issues) said that unless it's a historical name (a dead person can't make money on their name .. lol) or a political name (as long as it's not used for profit), then First+Last names should be off the table as they are effectively trademarks. Maybe not legally (although they most certainly can be if someone uses their name in business) .. but morally.

On the opposite side .. I think Single names (first or last) are most certainly generic enough to be fair game to all domain investors.

All that said .. I don't really have a problem with someone holding a name and not profiting from it. Like I think somewhere @Rob Monster mentioned he has DonCheadle (in com) and was open to giving it to the actor for free (btw .. I'd also be fine with registration and renewal costs .. ie $100 if you held the domain for 10 years). But it should be clear that the moment anybody tries to make money with the website (that doesn't have the actor's permission) .. there's going to be lawyers involved. And again .. getting back to the point .. the moment you actually try to outbound sell the full name domain to actor himself for any kind of profit .. then you're going to lose a UDRP if the actor chooses to go the legal route.

 

[Mister Funsky]

the moment you actually try to outbound sell the full name domain

Bingo.

In my example it was a first name like 'Bob' 'Kevin' 'Chim Chim' etc with no last name identifier (aka 'full name'). Surely you do not expect a UDRP to get filed (that will end with any actionable decision) when only a first name is used?

 

[Ategy]

We are starting to explore some themes around "Digital Empowerment". The higher order aspirational outcome is not "make a buck". It is to be "sovereign". Definitely not wedded to the Swiss bank theme. It was there to convey our blue chip customer-first approach to domain asset management. Anyone who has worked with us knows it is true. It was actually a customer, David Roth, who came up with it.

I can see how using the term really described how you wanted to be seen.

That being said ... that was more in the traditional vision of Swiss banks ... but as far as I know .. while they were known as impartial, by being impartial they also shielded a significant amount of Nazi wealth .. and in recent years they have shielded the wealth of tax evaders and other financial cheats. That has recently changed due to international pressure. So might not be the best choice for a younger generation.

So anyone born before 19?? probably knows what that means .. the younger ones probably need to look it up .. or just assumes it's something good/cool! lol

Personally ... It never really bothered me as I know what you meant.

 

[Rob Monster]

I can see how using the term really described how you wanted to be seen.

That being said ... that was more in the traditional vision of Swiss banks ... but as far as I know .. while they were known as impartial, by being impartial they also shielded a significant amount of Nazi wealth .. and in recent years they have shielded the wealth of tax evaders and other financial cheats. That has recently changed due to international pressure. So might not be the best choice for a younger generation.

So anyone born before 19?? probably knows what that means .. the younger ones probably need to look it up .. or just assumes it's something good/cool! lol

Thanks for the digestible thoughts there, @Ategy.com. We agree. There is a logic positioning pivot to a narrative that is more aspirational and fits with our passion for empowerment and sovereignty.

 

[Ategy]

... No rush. Measure twice. Cut once.

... says the guy who starts and finishes 20 projects a week! lol

Seriously .. do you even remember what a pillow looks like? lol