Caution: Sub-domain Confusion

[William9]

CAUTION: SUB-DOMAIN CONFUSION

I have noted confusion over sub-domains, such as the .EU.COM third level or sub-domains being offered.

For example, a search on www.sedo.us of Bag will determine that Bag is taken in all major TLDS. However, the BAG.EU.COM sub-domain is listed at the top of the available list. The third-level .EU.COM domains are NOT the same as the soon to be issued .EU domains. Third-level domains (eg. London.Namepros.Com or London.Eu.Com) are sub-domains, while the new .EU extension will be domains (eg. NAMEPROS.EU or LONDON.EU).

NEGATIVES OF SUBDOMAINS

• If you buy a sub-domain, your name does NOT go in an ICANN whois, instead, only the owner of the domain’s name (eg. owner of EU.COM) goes there.

• I know of NO search engine that lists sub-domains (so at least 99.9% don’t, if any at all).

• While I am not a lawyer, I speculate that sub-domainers have less that 1% of the legal rights that a domain owner gets. (eg. Whois isn’t an issue).

• You may never get E-mail. When New.Net issued sub-domains, they promised to soon have E-mail. However, to my knowledge, they never issued the E-mail they promised. As I recall, many years later they did some sort of deal with Juno.com. (With the New.Net sub-domains, you need a browser plug-in see the domains anyway).

• As far as hosting, there may be none available if you cannot point the sub-domain or you can only deal with the “host-deals” the domain owner makes available.

• MOST IMPORTANT, I never saw a sub-domain resold. Years ago the old Afternic listed some for resale (they don’t anymore) and every once in a while a new board member lists one by mistake, but I do not recall ever seeing one sold.

I cut short my listing of the negatives of sub-domains because I achieved my goal of enlightening the confused.

POSITIVES OF SUBDOMAINS

• I know of no positives of sub-domains.

If anyone believes my negatives are misstated, or that there is a significant positive that I forgot, I welcome your post correcting and informing me.

Good luck domaining,

 

[RJ]

On the contrary, I believe most search engines will list third level domains. In fact, I can't think of any that won't! Example: Yahoo's domains (members.yahoo.com, games.yahoo.com, etc)

E-mail services would also depend on who third level domain was offered through. It is techically possible to use email with a third level domain. Same with hosting. I could offer you the William9.NamePros.com domain name and you could host it anywhere you want, you would just have to depend on my DNS. EU.COM domains can be hosted just about anywhere and have email services because CentralNic permits this.

Legal rights would depend on who you get the third level domain name through. If you owned a eu.com, you may be able to sue CentralNic if there was an issue where you lost your name. An advantage may be that you do not have to worry about UDRP because it does not apply to third level names. (Standard trademark laws would still apply though)

 

[William9]

Thank you so much for your response –RJ-.

SEARCH ENGINES
I should have said that New.Net third-level domains are not listed by almost all search engines [rather than the statement I made about all third-level domains] and then went on to explain extreme difficulties in submitting just a sub-domain to search engines. You indicating: "On the contrary, I believe most search engines will list third level domains. In fact, I can't think of any that won't! Example: Yahoo's domains (members.yahoo.com, games.yahoo.com, etc). " You are correct and my inaccuracy stands corrected.

E-MAIL AND HOSTING
I do not think that we disagree on E-mail and hosting. You indicated: "E-mail services would also depend on who third level domain was offered through…. Same with hosting….". That is exactly what I was explaining – it depends.

LEGAL RIGHTS
I concluded less legal rights existed though. You indicated: "Legal rights would depend on who you get the third level domain name through… " While again you indicate that “it depends”, I conclude that they were certainly, for all purposes, less. That is because simply being able to sue wasn’t the issue. For sure the domain owner has the contractual right to remove or no longer link (within 10 seconds of thinking about it) to the subdomain for contractual reasons (eg. a controversy about material posted on the sub-domain). With a domain, that may not be possible or takes significant time (30 days). There are other legal issues.

POSITIVES?
You indicated "An advantage may be that you do not have to worry about UDRP because it does not apply to third level names. (Standard trademark laws would still apply though). " However, I personally concluded that your statement is really a negative! Because there so few trademark suits just related to sub-domains, I see that as a view by most companies that they don’t care as there isn’t a significant infringement or reduction in revenues. That being so, sub-domains can’t be of much value.

Sub-domains have their place, don’t get me wrong. My post was to inform those confused on what they were and some issues related to them.

Thanks again for your comments -RJ-

Good domaining,

 

[InteractAsia]

I agree with RJ. Google list my subdomains be it a 3rd, 4th or 5th level.

 

[jj2ii3344]

Do you think it is worthy to register a .eu.com??

 

[RJ]

Originally posted by jj2ii3344
Do you think it is worthy to register a .eu.com??

It's up to you and whether it's worth it to you, considering the points we discussed in this thread. Personally I feel they're too expensive to register, and not great for long term branding because of potential confusion with the upcoming .EU extension.

 

[joezeppy]

Hi All,

I've been working for Centralnic for about three years and I believe that they are a great alternative domain for those that can't find a memorable name in a tld.

Please feel free to post any questions. I'll be happy to answer.

Sincerely,

Joe

 

[RJ]

Originally posted by joezeppy
Hi All,

I've been working for Centralnic for about three years and I believe that they are a great alternative domain for those that can't find a memorable name in a tld.

Please feel free to post any questions. I'll be happy to answer.

Welcome Joe. It's good to have someone here from Centralnic that can answer questions. Did we get all the facts straight in this thread?

I've never used Centralnic personally because the price is prohibitive, but I can see why they would be appealing to many.

 

[William9]

Thank you joezeppy for your post that Centalnic [subdomains] offers a “great alternative domain for those that can't find a memorable name in a tld”. That is a positive which I failed to acknowledge in my original post.

You posted “Please feel free to post any questions. I'll be happy to answer.” Just as RJ had requested, I also would appreciate if you could address if the facts are straight in this thread?

Once again, thank you for your post it was much appreciated.

 

[joezeppy]

Hi Ron,

You're up late too I see. I think this is a fair discussion. I would debate most of the issues that William has brought up (of course I'm biased, but I assure you, these are different than new.net names). Centralnic has been very fair to me for years and they are tried and true, since 1996 (fka Nomination).

I do take some heat over pricing, but there is a steady downward trend as with all domains. eNom is now selling Centralnic domain names.

Sincerely,

Joe

 

[suthra]

subdomain.eu.com, Will never give popularity to the owners of that subdomain, rather it will give popularity only to the real owners, ie., eu.com.

Developing a big site under any subdomain is useless. You will just be one among the crowd and will go unnoticed and spending money for getting a subdomain is nothing but, spending money for improving/boosting someone's popularity.

I never buy subdomains, nor sell subdomains under the domains i own since i give them free.

Instead of paying for a subdomain, one can own a domain which may still be available in several TLD. Because nowadays, several new tld's are emerging.

I checked for a price of the domain "sarathy.eu.com" which is £65, for the first time i see a subdomain costing £65, i can get the same name in several tld's, like sarathy.biz, sarathy.info,sarathy.vc etc which would cost me lest than 10$ and may go to a maximum of 24$ and for that amount , i own a domain.

Iam not abusing anyone, just wanted to know how registering a subdomain improve the business of a person and if anyone have the track record or some other proof to show that a subdomain is doing good business, i would be happy.

Regards.,
sarathy.s

 

[joezeppy]

I respect how you feel

Hi Suthra,

I respect your opinion. They are not for everyone. They've met a need for many however.

I've always thought it very interesting how the term ".com" is the most advertised brand in the world and benefits Network Solutions and Verisign more than any company spending the money to advertise it.

It has become a global franchise/brand without ever trying, benefitting from the aggregate advertising dollars of most every fortune 500 company that exists. It's amazing. Those companies should get some kind of subsidy from Verisign and NSI.

Think about it. It's amazing.

To answer your questions though...

Joe

just wanted to know how registering a subdomain improve the business of a person and if anyone have the track record or some other proof to show that a subdomain is doing good business, i would be happy.

There are a lot of people that love these domains. If your name were more common and you lived in one of the countries we cover, you might be elated to see your name available. Playing the "check - not available" game over and over is very frustrating for these people.

In addition, businesses are accepting them readily and finding many uses for them.

Go to http://www.sharperimage.eu.com and click in the middle of hte page to see the real URL. Which is better and easier to remember? Why would they want to brand Yahoo's page? You can pay in Euros there.

They do the same thing with http://www.sharperimage.uk.com and allow payment in UK Pounds. They're easy to remember.

Other high profile (and happy) customers are BMW, ATT, Larry Flint Enterprises, Bank of America. Some use the sites. Others buy the domains for defensive purposes (to protect their brands and IP interests).

Anyway, my point is to help you see some of the ways they are being used and we've just begun.

Sincerely,

Joe

 

[.edu]

.eu vs. .eu.com hmz I say that its a no brainer here.