Advise needed...

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Joeski

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Hello all,

I need abit of advise, if you dont mind...

I bought kirstycrawford.com a few days ago, Kristy Crawford was on TV screens last year on Pop Idol (UK).. and i am a fan of hers, hence buying the name.
She is planning on kicking off a solo career.

Now, this domain has been taken since she was on the show, and her manager has been wanting it since he became her manager.

I must have got it JUST as it became free again, as he got a call to say it was avalible.. and then id got it when he looked.

I talk to Kirsty on msn, and i dont want to offend her or hurt her..
But, she said that legally he is entitled to it, and James, her manager wants to take legal action... not on me, he doesnt know its 'me' that has it at this point.
Do you know where i stand on this one?
I know its not a legal forum... but i thought someone would know somthing about it?
If it was for sale to ANYONE, doesnt that mean ANYONE can buy it?
Im not gonna kick up a fuss on this one, cos like i say, im a fan.. and i talk to her on msn.. so dont wanna spoil things.

Another one i wanted to ask... was..
What would you all give it for a value?
Cos no doubt i will sell it to him..
Shes launching a singing career in the new year, she has management & production deals, shes gigging up and down the UK, im almost certain she has a record deal..
If you owned the name, and they wanted it - what would you expect to get?

Sorry if this isnt the place for this.. just thought i'd ask and see!
Thanks in advance :)
 
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Wallerlogistics.com expires tommorow they did not even know if some one buy's it they will have to buy it off you. Set your price. $$$ No funds or I would be all over it.
 
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well thanks for ur help guys :P
uuurm, ill just take their offer and run... lol

Ill leave you to "discuss" if you 'can' TM a name or not ;)
 
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Congress passed the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACCP) in 1999, giving companies some recourse against misuse of their trademarks in domain names, but questions still remain. What exactly can be claimed as a trademark? How do you define "misuse?" And, hey, celebrities are big business, are they covered too?

Cyberlaw vs. Traditional Trademark Law

In non-cyberworld cases, the courts have been the answer for trademark disputes. Traditionally, trademarks have been protected by the Lanham Act, enacted in 1946, and, most recently, the Federal Trademark Dilution Act of 1995, but these new cyber star wars over cyber star wares are creating new questions as to how trademark law will evolve and effectively govern in this new era.

The Dilution Act protects marks from "the lessening of the capacity of a famous mark to identify and distinguish goods or services," although the courts have disagreed as to how to interpret the law. In one case, Ringling Bros., the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals held the holder of the more famous mark must prove actual damages, while in the Pepperidge Farm Goldfish case, the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals said no damage was necessary. Most recently, in the Victoria’s Secret case which is now before the U.S. Supreme Court, the 6th Circuit again found that proof of damages was not necessary.

Disputes are handled differently in the online world. Here, when holders of a famous mark or a celebrity name want that mark or name from a cybersquatter, they most often bring the dispute to an arbitration service, usually the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) or the World Property Organization (WIPO).

Although the standards used in these cases are similar to traditional trademark cases, they are still unique. Basically, anyone bringing a suit must prove that the contested domain name is 1) confusingly similar or identical to the plaintiff’s own trademark; 2) that the current domain holder has no right to or legitimate interest in the domain name; and 3) that the name was registered in "bad faith."

These international "People’s Courts" of domain name management are effective but limited. Their decisions are not enforceable under U.S. law so, if mark holders or alleged cybersquatters are unhappy with the decision, they can still bring the case to court to maintain ownership of the domain name.

But, perhaps most seriously, some critics say these panels are creating a new global trademark law with entirely new definitions and standards. One common concern is that these panels have overwhelmingly protected people’s (most commonly celebrity’s) names even when these names have not been trademarked. In traditional trademark cases, complainants usually have, quite obviously, a registered trademark. In domain name battles, it is often not so.

Under ICANN’S Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (UDRP), a registered trademark is not required. The complaining party can also just have "rights in trademark." This is often integral to a celebrity’s case. Celebrities argue that their names have acquired "secondary meaning" and, thus, have established rights as a common law trademark – and they have been extremely successful.

"Most surprising is the strength of protection given to personal names under the UDRP," Dr. Milton Mueller of Syracuse University’s Convergence Center has said. "Personal names that are not registered as trademarks have been protected as strongly as registered marks, if not more strongly…overall the win rate for complainants in personal name cases is practically identical to registered marks."

Critics of arbitration have freedom of speech concerns as well. Many sites, such as the JuliaRoberts.com, contained what many considered to be parody of a public figure, which has traditionally been protected, but, still, the site was taken from the holder after it was judged to be registered in "bad faith."

Celebrity Cyberlaw Case Studies

In the non-cyberworld it’s not unusual for different companies to own rights to the same trademark. As attorney and author Mark Radcliffe has pointed out, more than 15 companies have registered "Apple" as their trademark but, with domain names, this simply can’t work. There can be thousands of Apples in the world, but only one Apple.com. Similarly, there may be thousands of people named Julia Roberts in the world, but there can only be one JuliaRoberts.com–and take a guess which one is most likely to get it.

In one of the most notorious celebrity cyber squabbles, actress Julia Roberts filed suit against Russell Boyd, a New Jersey man who had purchased the domain name, JuliaRoberts.com. Boyd then created a site filled with cartoons, wacky poems and message boards, all poking fun at the "Pretty Woman" star. Roberts brought the dispute to WIPO for arbitration and won, the panel finding that Boyd had no rights or legitimate interest in the domain name and that he had registered it in bad faith.

The case left many domain name owners wondering if Roberts’ celebrity had unfairly influenced the decision. After all, what made Julia Roberts the actress more deserving of the domain name than the countless other Julias in the world? Wayne Huang, who owns a domain name of actress Katie Holmes said: "There was an interesting post on a website from a woman named Julia Roberts who is a housewife, and she asked, ‘My name is Julia Roberts too, can I sue you for this site?’"

Similar concerns were raised in the Madonna.com case. Here, the singer sued for the domain name and won – the decision heralded by her publicist Liz Rosenberg who told the Associated Press that the decision was just because the Material Girl was "the most famous Madonna in the world." The site’s owner, Dan Parisi, disagreed, as did Catholics around the globe presumably. "She was named after the Virgin Mary as was her mother and hundreds of thousands of other people throughout the world over the past 2000 years," Parisi has said. "We do not believe that because Ms. Ciccone named her act after the Virgin Mary that gives her the right to stop any party from using the word ‘madonna’ as a title of their website."

Although celebrities are often victorious, it is not always the case. Singer Bruce Springsteen brought suit against the owner of BruceSpringsteen.com, a fan who was running a club on the site, however, the panel did not side with the singer, finding that running a fan club on the site was not a demonstration of bad faith.

And recording artist Sting (real name: Gordon Sumner) got stung when he brought suit against Michael Urvan, owner of sting.com back in 2000. Urvan, a software engineer from Marietta, Georgia, who also just so happens to go by the nickname "Sting," won the dispute. The arbitrators ruled that "sting" was a common word that could not be successfully claimed as a trademark even though Sting-the-singer is arguably more well-known than Sting-the-Software-Engineer. (Urvan has since agreed to transfer the name to Sting and Sting.com is now the singer’s official site.)

Singer Alanis Morisette is the latest star to wage a cyber battle, fighting for control of the domain, Alanis.net. This summer her attorneys sent a letter to the owner, Russ Smith, demanding the domain name and claiming he was misappropriating Morisette’s trademark. Smith sent a scathing reply, claiming, among other things, that Alanis Morisette did not have a right to the name "Alanis" separate from her last name. Look for this one to hit the arbitration panels soon.

Cyberlaw – The Next Generation

Although celebrities and holders of famous marks have been quite successful in arbitration, they may soon have new woes to deal with. This year new top level domains (.info, .biz, .name, .pro, .aero, .museum and .coop) are slowly being introduced and holders of existing trademarks don’t like that one bit as new domains mean more cybersquatting battles to come. (Juliaroberts.museum, anyone?)

And, as the Internet continues to expand, so does cyberlaw’s reach. Cases have begun to move beyond the arbitration services and are carving out new definitions of trademark law in the courts as well. Trademark holders have begun bringing suit under the Lanham Act, the ACCP Act and, most recently, state dilution laws.

In April, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals found that a Texas company had diluted the trademark of wine giant E. & J. Gallo by maintaining a site called "Whiney Winery" on the domain, ernestandjuliogallo.com. Although not a direct celebrity case, it still has implications as this was the first time the 5th Circuit applied the ACCP Act and the first time the Texas dilution act was applied to cybersquatting. "Many laypeople think that the regular laws don’t apply to the Internet. The courts are confirming what I’ve always believed, that the trademark and copyright laws apply to the Internet just like they apply to everything else," E. & J. Gallo attorney Craig Weinlein has said.

And, if celebrities have anything to say about it, these laws will apply to them too. Can’t we all just get along? Sure, as soon as there’s enough JuliaRoberts.coms to go around. Until then, let’s get ready to rumble.
 
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So you can see Joeski if you have cash maybe you can win but if not better to just sell. Good Luck Dude
 
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Would it make a difference if the reason i bought the domain name was for a fansite for Kirsty... and it stated that it was 100% unofficial?
Too complicated for me i think :P
 
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Once a name has acquired what is referred to as a "secondary meaning" in the commercial sense, it is at the very least protected under common law trademark law.

Of course, you can use it on your ID card but someone named Michael Jackson, for example, cannot erect a website by the same name and trade off that name in the commercial sense where it might lead to confusion with the celebrity name.

You can find these types of lawsuits cited all over the net.. just because you haven't been sued "yet" doesn't mean you won't or can't be.. you've just been lucky, so far...

The Julia Roberts Case

There have been a number of cases dealing with sites using the names of celebrities as their second-level domain. Although there is nothing carved in stone about the outcome of such disputes, two cases are helpful in understanding the issues faced under the Uniform Domain Name Resolution Policy (UDRP) and the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACPA).

In a matter involving Julia Roberts, the complainant was the famous actress and the respondent was the owner of the domain "juliaroberts.com." It is relevant that this domain owner was also the owner of many other domains using the names of celebrities and that he had put the domain in question, juliaroberts.com, up for auction. As you will see, these are factors that weigh in the determination of whether a registrant has acted in "bad faith," a legal requirement for decisions under both the UDRP and the ACPA.

The issues under the UDRP were:

whether the domain was identical to that of the actress's name;
whether the actress had a trademark or trademark rights in her name;
whether the domain owner had any legitimate rights to the domain name; and
whether the use by the domain owner was in bad faith.
Clearly the condition under the first factor was satisfied, but the real issue in the case was whether the actress had any trademark rights in her name. She did not have a registered United States trademark (which is not required under the UDRP but is required under the ACPA) but alleged instead that she had common law trademark rights because her name had acquired a "secondary meaning." Secondary meaning is a legal term meaning that although a name (whether a personal name as in this instance or a product or service name) or a design is not a registered mark, the public has come to associate that name or design with a particular person or company or goods or services. This term is usually applied in situations where the mark or claimed rights have been in use for a period of time and have been widely disseminated and used in such a way so as to create this reference in the minds of the public. If the claimant establishes this "secondary meaning," the issue then is whether the use by another in a particular context would be likely to cause confusion in the minds of the public that a particular use is related to the owner of the secondary meaning (referred to as "passing off").

For the purposes of this case, the issue was whether -- when someone hears the name "Julia Roberts" or, in this instance, logs onto a site juliaroberts.com -- that person identifies that name or site with the person of the actress and whether the use by the respondent of a domain with that name would be likely to confuse the public into believing that the actress was somehow related to the particular usage of the name or this domain.

The administrative panel quickly decided that Julia Roberts possessed the requisite secondary meaning in her name. The panel members found that there was an identification in the minds of the public between the actual name and the person of the actress. Thus, they concluded, she possessed "trademark rights" even if she had no actual registered mark.

The next issue was whether the domain owner had any legitimate rights to the name for the purposes of the site or whether the site was put up and fell within the scope of "fair use." The panel noted that there was nothing on the site that initially related to the actress (that is, it was not a fan site or anything of that nature), nor did the site otherwise fall within the "fair use" legitimate uses such as a parody site. There have been other cases where a celebrity filed a claim against a domain owner under the same theory as Ms. Roberts but did not prevail because the site owner had the same name as that of the celebrity and/or was using the site for legitimate purposes related to the domain name owner's business or the like. In this instance, however, the panel found that the domain name was established solely for the purpose of selling it to the actress or others and that the respondent had established a "pattern of conduct" by registering many other such domains and as such, the conduct of the respondent constituted the requisite bad faith.

The panel ordered the domain transferred to Julia Roberts. These panel decisions are not final, and it is left to the parties to pursue further remedies, as the domain owner has indicated he would.
 
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http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=md0rbq.2.20

THe trademark of a name Ill code and a common Name Michael Jordan
Of course, you can use it on your ID card but someone named Michael Jackson, for example, cannot erect a website by the same name and trade off that name in the commercial sense where it might lead to confusion with the celebrity name. You can find these types of lawsuits cited all over the net.. just because you haven't been sued "yet" doesn't mean you won't or can't be.. you've just been lucky, so far...
Great point DG
 
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ok, from my understanding...
As im not trading from it, nor bought it with intention of selling it - simpy just to run a fansite... then im not actually in the wrong?
I already own kirstypaws.com, which is a fansite (well, was, its closed for an update atm) and kirstycrawfordfansite.com which i dont use, cos i bought kirstypaws.com.

I bought andysteed.com for a fansite too, and i also run a fansite for Cassie Compton, with domain name cassieonline.co.uk, altho i dont own that domain.

I didnt buy it in "bad faith".. i just wanted to make an un-official fansite
 
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Ok so then you have to know someone may be willing to fight for it maybe they will win maybe you will win, THe question you have to ask yourself is "Do I feel lucky?"
 
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I don't think you're necessarily in the "wrong", but historically, if they want their domain name, you're almost sure to lose in court. My advice is, seeing as they've offered a price, sell it to them and count yourself lucky you're not paying legal fees instead. Once the domain is in their hands, maybe they'll let you run a site under it anyway for a percentage of the revenue.


Joeski said:
ok, from my understanding...
As im not trading from it, nor bought it with intention of selling it - simpy just to run a fansite... then im not actually in the wrong?
I already own kirstypaws.com, which is a fansite (well, was, its closed for an update atm) and kirstycrawfordfansite.com which i dont use, cos i bought kirstypaws.com.

I bought andysteed.com for a fansite too, and i also run a fansite for Cassie Compton, with domain name cassieonline.co.uk, altho i dont own that domain.

I didnt buy it in "bad faith".. i just wanted to make an un-official fansite
 
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Right , the question is why do you so desperately want to runa fansite ? Profit or do you have a crush on Kristy?
 
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lol.. no profit... i just like Kirsty..
I just wanna help promote her etc.. and its just pics, news, where shes gigging at, wallpapers, etc...
 
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Well that's cool, so maybe sell it, but tell them you want to help. make a little cash and be President of her fan club Good Luck
 
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dgridley said:
Take their offer.. you would lose it in court otherwise.
exactly
 
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equity78 said:
Well that's cool, so maybe sell it, but tell them you want to help. make a little cash and be President of her fan club Good Luck
why would they pay him to work for them? i bet they already have the entire staff lined up
 
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Talking about a Fanclub not a manager they would not pay him he getting paid for the domain sale.
 
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Joeski said:
well thanks for ur help guys :P
uuurm, ill just take their offer and run... lol

Ill leave you to "discuss" if you 'can' TM a name or not ;)


Smart man. Take the :D money and run!!!
 
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They don't have to pay him anything. They can let him derive revenue from ads, or a percentage.

pimpdaddy said:
why would they pay him to work for them? i bet they already have the entire staff lined up
 
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