$100,000 Income: No Big Deal Anymore?

[Anjani]

Wonder what percentage of domainers make over 100k?
See many domainers with 5000+ domains portfolio - Guess renewal fees to be $40000/Year...Surely they must be making a killing to be able to maintain the portfolio.
Your Thoughts!

 

[Kate]

The majority of domainers are indeed losing money. But those who have success are not always going to boast about it, in fact they are busy and they don't even have the time to post here. On the other hand those who struggle don't like to admit they are not doing well.
Even making a good sale here and there still doesn't mean you are profitable.
Blanket statement: domaining is most of the time a hobby, sometimes profitable. A full-time business: rarely. There are few people who make a living on domains. They exist but they are not representative of the average NPer. I don't have accurate statistics so you don't have to agree with me here.

Newcomers are typically attracted by the sales reports, that suggest there is a big gold mine waiting to be tapped and money to be made easily. The reality is that aftermarket activity is tiny when compared to the gross volume of domain registrations. So they tend to overestimate the potential.
There is a lot of money wasted on domain speculation, I posted some famous examples that are only the tip of the iceberg.

When you are a newcomer and read the comments you are sometimes under the impression that 90% of posters here are making a comfortable revenue, and those who aren't are just at the beginning of the learning curve, and everything will sort out for itself soon enough.
Yet the majority are not incorporated and they never complain about taxes because they are not paying any. Because you don't pay taxes on revenue that doesn't exist.

You have to keep a critical mind, analyze what you see and hear, do research, sort the wheat from the shaft, and not take everything at face value.
The sales reports from established sources are generally trustworthy, but they can be contaminated by fake sales or non-completed transactions too.
But there is money to be made though, if you work hard and do your homework. Dreamers will be washed over.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Simple example...

1,000 domains x $1.17 (during promotional sales) = $1,170
If just 3-4 domains will be sold within 1 year - you are in significant profit...
And then may freely drop all others...

And nobody renews all 100% domains...
Portfolio is always in permanent rotation... and core size is a few times lower...

 

[Silentptnr]

I have about 1000 domains. I pay on average $8 each for renewals. I don't really follow specials too much so I spend about 8k per year on renewals.

Each year my goal is to cover my renewals and make profit. My way of doing it is:

I run several auctions a year at NameJet or GoDaddy...sometimes monthly. Each auction usually yields 4k+. Sometimes much more. Not usually much less.

Other than those auctions I run, I get end user sales here and there.

I haven't had a time yet that I have not made far more than my renewals in a year and that includes any names that I drop. And that includes all the new names I buy each year.

The only tough part for me is that I like to hold my domains for end user sales, so I don't even like doing the auctions. I do them to always be profitable. I also always look to acquire more names because I love domaining and need to have constant inventory of "profitable" names.

Of course I would love to spend more time building my domain business and have no doubt I could, but it will have to wait until I retire.

I think the biggest mistake some make is to believe it is realistic and normal to have a 100k+ sale.

Only certain, ultra premium domains hit those levels. Sure you might see a two word or ngTLD sell high here or there, but the reality is that most "good" retail sales will be around the 1.5k-3k range.

My model is based on the worst case scenario which is unloading domains at reseller prices (or less) on the major auction platforms.

 

[BrandMart]

Consider this.

1. Domains worth $50k or more aren't available for cheap. They don't have a big market since the price is high too. These domains take patience when it comes to selling.
2. Domains that can be flipped for low income are the ones driving the market. Shark may be the king of the ocean, but we don't eat shark all the time. We prefer tunas, trouts etc. Keep flipping.
3. Successful domainers will always have a stable portfolio and money backup. Most of them have another primary source of income and invest some of it on domaining. Not all domainers are feeding themselves and their family by selling domains.
4. To make 100k, you have to think big. If you dream of landing on Mars, you'll at least land on the moon. Think big, work hard, do your research and always - always keep learning.

 

[Haroon Basha]

Quality of the names that matters most, not the quantity. Those who own 5000 plus domain names are not necessarily making a killing but finding it hard to maintain that kind of huge portfolio.

 

[MapleDots]

Yet the majority are not incorporated and they never complain about taxes because they are not paying any. Because you don't pay taxes on revenue that doesn't exist.

You don't have to be incorporated to pay taxes. I am not incorporated but am a legitimate business, I claim my income on my taxes and I charge the appropriate sales taxes on all my sales within Canada. Any sales outside of Canada are exempt of the sales tax.

Since I run a number of businesses I am accustomed to paying a rather large amount of income tax but how I get that down is to spend the income on things I can use as expenses and domains are perfect because I can keep them and sell them later when my tax base goes down.

I do very much agree with you though, I have so many topics (including on a different forum) where I tell domainers of the dangers in not charging sales tax or claiming their income. I even had one domainer try to tell me he has been selling domains at 75k for years and he includes the sales tax in all his domains. Seriously that is just silly, a legitimate business expects to pay sales tax and can easily claim it back, why would one include it in the price and limit the profit potential.

So yes.... a lot of mistakes are being made and when the tax people catch up a number of domainers are going to be in serious trouble. I know in Canada you have to charge sales tax if your sales are over 25-30k per year and therefore you are responsible for collection and remittance.

@Kate I seriously think a lot of domainers never realize a lot of sales so therefore they run under the radar. Anyone having sizable sales would be a foolish not to charge & remit taxes. Not claiming the income would be even more silly because money is traceable and in they end they will be caught.

@Anjani - As far as 100k being no big deal, it is not for those accustomed to making it but I know a few people eking by on $500 per month in social assistance. I personally feel it is our responsibility to give back if we have achieved a measure of success. Personally I even pay half of peoples car loans to help them out. Whenever I do anything I make sure I do it in such a way to preserve the dignity of the person I am helping.

In closing.... renewals are an expense, I actually don't mind when they come up, its part of the business like paying rent.

 

[biggie]

Wonder what percentage of domainers make over 100k?

Your Thoughts!

it's really not my business, nor is it a focal point
sure, if someone is sharing info voluntarily, that's fine

but I think one should focus on their own affairs, instead of who's making what.


imo...

 

[Kate]

Everything I drop is picked up too.
It means the names are maybe not so bad, but the notion of what is bad is relative in a context of scarcity. It doesn't mean the names will ever sell.
There is no shortage of 'ok' domains, but there are just not enough domain buyers to absorb all the supply.

 

[hookbox]

Namepros supposedly has 1 million members. Many of these members like to brag about their sales. When there have been only 32 sales reported here in the last 7 days that should tell you something. Even more so when most of those 32 sold for hundreds and not thousands of dollars. Domaining can be profitable but you better get ready to marry domaining or you will be wasting your time.

 

[GeorgeQuang]

Spend all money i have to domaining.
Living in my parent's house.
Having 750 names.
Hiring 1 part-time staff.
30-40 names in my watching list each day in all Auctions.
Profit in selling names cover 60% the cost ( if i accepted all offers, i can make 10-20% profit for the 1st year as full-time domainer).
Still burning my money.
And people say that i'm MAD.
Ignoring what people say, thought and laugh.
Time will answer.

 

[Recons.Com]

I renew about 80% of my names and have about 1300 names. Planning to increase the number drastically.

 

[Rich]

I wouldnt think many outside the brokerage industry are making over 100k, even those guys have to be getting burned out.
It's hit or miss, did great in 2016 but last year only a handful of sales(maybe crypto craze). I do little to no outbound though, on 250 names.its about your lifestyle really. I'm scared to sit on the pc all day as i did during my childhood.. the search is fun, but is your health worth it? My background is cooking, was a chef for 15 years but now I enjoy construction because I get to keep my figure and spend the weekends with my daughter. Family first right, good luck out there.

 

[GeorgeQuang]

I'd be interested to know what you get your 1 part-time staff to do? How many hours/week does "part time"?

I'd also be interested to know how you spend your time?

Research Research and Research, buddy.
Domainers are using 80% of working time to do research. And almost those steps are repeated steps. So that i hired a guy and tested. I taught him step-by step to research a domain name.
Honestly, in the first 2 weeks, what he did were poor, and i had to correct, fix his work sheet too much. I felt depressed. But i still believed what i was doing, so i try to fix and highlight and remark what he did wrong, then showed him how to did in the right way.
Now, i'm very happy. My staff can work independently. I send a list to him in the Morning, then i got back my List with fully research stats at night and then it's time to auction. Before hiring him, i worked on PC 14 hours/day just to research domains, now i online 8 hours, then spend the rest of time to chat with people from other business, learning new skills and reading news about domaining (maybe playing games - I'm a young man ).
If my career in Domaining goes well, i'll hire one more staff. But it's the future.
I asked some domainers, most of them told me that they were self-employee. I can work by myself, of course. But i will only know about Domain Industry if i do that. I want to build a real business, not a hobby or passive income, so i must think different. I must extend my portfolio, so i have to research more, then try to catch more names as cheap as i can. I don't have huge pocket like HugeDomain, so that i must work hard, finding a gem in tons of coal. To get good names with the cheapest price, you have to research very carefully. Other guys who has been success in their careers in other businesses can spend their money into domain field. They can lost 10-15k to learning, but i can not. I don't have enough money to do that, so i started learning by working in a Domain Ventures company, then trying to catch Dropped Names ( which just costed me 8.5$ for each). When i had enough knowledge, i joint GD Close out, then GD Expired. Now, my watching list contains all good/potential names in all Auctions.
Those mentioned things can not ensure that i will be success in domain industry. 95% of domainers lose their money without any profit. Maybe i will fail and get bankrupt in next month, next Summer. Who knows ? I just wanna do all my best in this journal. Maybe people told me i'm a Mad Man, maybe domainers told me that earning money in domain industry is harder than it used to be. Especially with the incommensurate competition between us - individual domainers against HugeDomain ( last night, i have 40 names in my watching list, but could not acquire any names due to their non-profitable price), but i still spend all i have to play this game. Maybe i will fail, but i will have great stories to tell my children.

 

[GeorgeQuang]

Efty's landing pages are usually quite good. I would always use their Escrow.com option. I would prefer to make a sale thru Efty landing page because no commission if you sell thru Efty. Usually everywhere else is normally 20%, Sedo 15%.

Sedo & Afternic are probably the 2nd & 3rd biggest Domains For Sale Companies.

I'm confused about Afternic's policies about listing on Afternic and they will also put it on GoDaddy (the #1 Domain Reseller). So I still also post on GoDaddy. You should maybe do a search on GoDaddy for one of your first domains added to Afternic, and see if it listed. If not. I would list all your domains at GoDaddy, as well. Most of my inquiries come through GoDaddy. The General Public appear to trust them. Must have been those raunchy SuperBowl commercials of old

Outbound Sales are also quite difficult unless you really have a good domain which is in demand, and then it's how do you go about finding your prospective purchasers.

I wouldn't set any prices anywhere. Use Make Offer pricing. But one tip is I usually have set a Minimum Price, otherwise you are going to be bothered by tire kickers, quite a lot, IMHO.

Nice thought, buddy.
I and my staff have a meeting in the weekend, we discuss what we did in a week, then talk about the BIN price.
After that, i add my names on Efty (of course), then set BIN in Afternic and Sedo ( with BIN higher than my expectation price).
All works are marked in Excel Sheet. From Parking Domains to BIN in Afternic or Sedo .
The coolest thing to become a domainer is : i own my time and i own my mind. While my friends are crazy in their office, i'm sitting in a beach, breathing the sea, and being warmed by the sun. While my friends have to smile with their mad customers, i can ignore the one who i don' want to work with.
In South East Asian - where i live, income from Domaining is higher than working as a supervisor or a manager, and i can hire another staffs with low price to work for me .
If you are living in Western Countries or USA, yes it's hard to earn 100k in profit, so that the easier choice is working in big companies. But in a developing countries, income form Domaining can makes you live well.
I'm still losing my money in this industry - but it's a investment. Once i stop buying names and just pay the renewal fees, i can get more profit. But it's the future, now i must acquire as many good domains as i can. OF course with the profitable prices .

 

[xynames]

About 1500 domains renewal at about $8 each. I get offers daily and manage to sell enough each month to be in the green on both a monthly basis and annual rolling basis. Some months I make a lot others less.

I might let a few domains go some months. I might acquire a few domains some months too, but these days most of my acquisitions are for development not re-sale.

 

[Kate]

The names are 'OK' but generally not outstanding, people are still picking the leftovers from others. Maybe they will have more success than the previous holders but that is far from certain.
When you see all the stuff that gets picked up - there is a lot of desperation in this business.

 

[Name Trader]

Using Efty as Main Landing Page, listed all domains i have on Sedo and Afternic.
Now i got 2 inquiries/week.
Still acquiring more names each night.
I Had done Outbound before, but could not get any feedback @@

Efty's landing pages are usually quite good. I would always use their Escrow.com option. I would prefer to make a sale thru Efty landing page because no commission if you sell thru Efty. Usually everywhere else is normally 20%, Sedo 15%.

Sedo & Afternic are probably the 2nd & 3rd biggest Domains For Sale Companies.

I'm confused about Afternic's policies about listing on Afternic and they will also put it on GoDaddy (the #1 Domain Reseller). So I still also post on GoDaddy. You should maybe do a search on GoDaddy for one of your first domains added to Afternic, and see if it listed. If not. I would list all your domains at GoDaddy, as well. Most of my inquiries come through GoDaddy. The General Public appear to trust them. Must have been those raunchy SuperBowl commercials of old

Outbound Sales are also quite difficult unless you really have a good domain which is in demand, and then it's how do you go about finding your prospective purchasers.

I wouldn't set any prices anywhere. Use Make Offer pricing. But one tip is I usually have set a Minimum Price, otherwise you are going to be bothered by tire kickers, quite a lot, IMHO.

 

[domeen]

I renew almost 100%. Last year let drop like 5 domains. The one I watched adresboek.com got picked up by dropcatch and ended up with 9 bidders and price like $300.
Actually someone bought it in sedo.com also for $750, but it was in pending delete so I was not able to renew it.

After that basically none of my domains is dropping

 

[Federer]

Simple example...

1,000 domains x $1.17 (during promotional sales) = $1,170
If just 3-4 domains will be sold within 1 year - you are in significant profit...
And then may freely drop all others...

And nobody renews all 100% domains...
Portfolio is always in permanent rotation... and core size is a few times lower...

Jurgen summed up very nicely a highly-efficient, working business model (as long as you are targeting the right type of domains.
Promotions. Rotation. Profit.

 

[GeorgeQuang]

@GeorgeQuang - Good luck with your venture into domaining. I wish you all the best for any luck which might come your way. Yep. Some people would call you crazy. But a lot of us started just the way you are doing. My best advice, if you aren't selling any domains, you probably should change your strategy. If you are selling domains, but not yet covering your costs. That's quite acceptable during a learning curve like you have embarked on. And review your strategy for each domain at each renewal date, and decide if you should renew or drop each domain. Circumstances and opinions can change in a year, when you are hopefully wiser than today..

Are you doing outbound sales? Do you use "For Sale" landing pages? Do you use Parking? And if so who? Which websites have you listed your domains on?

Using Efty as Main Landing Page, listed all domains i have on Sedo and Afternic.
Now i got 2 inquiries/week.
Still acquiring more names each night.
I Had done Outbound before, but could not get any feedback @@

 

[Federer]

Once in a blue moon.

 

[Anjani]

The majority of domainers are indeed losing money. But those who have success are not always going to boast about it, in fact they are busy and they don't even have the time to post here. On the other hand those who struggle don't like to admit they are not doing well.
Even making a good sale here and there still doesn't mean you are profitable.
Blanket statement: domaining is most of the time a hobby, sometimes profitable. A full-time business: rarely. There are few people who make a living on domains. They exist but they are not representative of the average NPer. I don't have accurate statistics so you don't have to agree with me here.

Newcomers are typically attracted by the sales reports, that suggest there is a big gold mine waiting to be tapped and money to be made easily. The reality is that aftermarket activity is tiny when compared to the gross volume of domain registrations. So they tend to overestimate the potential.
There is a lot of money wasted on domain speculation, I posted some famous examples that are only the tip of the iceberg.

When you are a newcomer and read the comments you are sometimes under the impression that 90% of posters here are making a comfortable revenue, and those who aren't are just at the beginning of the learning curve, and everything will sort out for itself soon enough.
Yet the majority are not incorporated and they never complain about taxes because they are not paying any. Because you don't pay taxes on revenue that doesn't exist.

You have to keep a critical mind, analyze what you see and hear, do research, sort the wheat from the shaft, and not take everything at face value.
The sales reports from established sources are generally trustworthy, but they can be contaminated by fake sales or non-completed transactions too.
But there is money to be made though, if you work hard and do your homework. Dreamers will be washed over.

sane voice you will be my go to person for any advice..Thank You!

 

[lambo.com]

The majority of domainers are indeed losing money. But those who have success are not always going to boast about it, in fact they are busy and they don't even have the time to post here. On the other hand those who struggle don't like to admit they are not doing well.
Even making a good sale here and there still doesn't mean you are profitable.
Blanket statement: domaining is most of the time a hobby, sometimes profitable. A full-time business: rarely. There are few people who make a living on domains. They exist but they are not representative of the average NPer. I don't have accurate statistics so you don't have to agree with me here.

Newcomers are typically attracted by the sales reports, that suggest there is a big gold mine waiting to be tapped and money to be made easily. The reality is that aftermarket activity is tiny when compared to the gross volume of domain registrations. So they tend to overestimate the potential.
There is a lot of money wasted on domain speculation, I posted some famous examples that are only the tip of the iceberg.

When you are a newcomer and read the comments you are sometimes under the impression that 90% of posters here are making a comfortable revenue, and those who aren't are just at the beginning of the learning curve, and everything will sort out for itself soon enough.
Yet the majority are not incorporated and they never complain about taxes because they are not paying any. Because you don't pay taxes on revenue that doesn't exist.

You have to keep a critical mind, analyze what you see and hear, do research, sort the wheat from the shaft, and not take everything at face value.
The sales reports from established sources are generally trustworthy, but they can be contaminated by fake sales or non-completed transactions too.
But there is money to be made though, if you work hard and do your homework. Dreamers will be washed over.

what she said

(and she knows how to spell 'losing' the correct way -- many type loosing!)

 

[Recons.Com]

Wow! some posts and aftermarket sales reports are misleading..i was under the impression that 99% of the domainers are bleeding and the overall sales percentage is just 0.34% of the inventory with the chosen few selling 2-3% of their portfolio/year..your optimism is infectious...thank you!

I am at around 1%. But I don't do throw-away pricing for most of my names.

I did not really intent to be infectious with optimism, as that can lead to people losing money in this industry. Again, per recent poll here, 52% of investors either lost money or broke even for 2017 and then for remaining 48%, a lot made under $10K, which is not a lot given the amount of time spent and risks involved.

You really have to know what you are doing and do things right way. Once you find a formula that works for 100 or 1000 names then you can try to scale up.