What are the must have features for DNProtect.com?

But would not all that be covered in the umbrella loss of business insurance?

Also what would be the probability of that happening? How many legit businesses have lost their PRIMARY domain via udrp or court?

Recons.Com said:

But would not all that be covered in the umbrella loss of business insurance?

Also what would be the probability of that happening? How many legit businesses have lost their PRIMARY domain via udrp or court?

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The cases for abrupt domain loss are probably rising, notably for .COM.

Consider the famous case of Gab.com, covered at length here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...dy-24-hours-to-transfer-or-suspension.1107245

That was a $300,000 domain that was rendered inoperable when it was under a domain loan with a 4th party. Yes, Epik came to the rescue there. If we had not, probably lights out there.

Or consider this case:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/legitscript-and-name-com-holding-domains-hostage.1141035/

That was lights-out. They never got their domain back, and they had no money to hire a lawyer.

As a registrar, I see many frivolous UDRP cases. I deal with them regularly, and usually take a pragmatic approaches, but some lawyers just like to run up the meter for their clients. It happens all the time.

There are many cases like this -- likely far more than you realize and the trend is frankly not in favor of registrants that are under-equipped or under-funded to defend their rights.

So, yes, I think pooled reserves against shared risk is a timely countermeasure against nonsense.

Actually Godaddy touches on this kind of thing, a totally lighter service but something they call Ownership Protection which they charge I believe around $10-12 per year for. It doesn't get into all the UDRP stuff, but I believe Godaddy transaction assured bought domains have some stolen type coverage.

wwwweb said:

Actually Godaddy touches on this kind of thing, a totally lighter service but something they call Ownership Protection which they charge I believe around $10-12 per year for. It doesn't get into all the UDRP stuff, but I believe Godaddy transaction assured bought domains have some stolen type coverage.

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Check it out:

https://www.godaddy.com/help/what-is-protected-registration-1286

Unless I am missing something, it is basically MaxLock service. We do that for free upon request.

Rob Monster said:

Check it out:

https://www.godaddy.com/help/what-is-protected-registration-1286

Unless I am missing something, it is basically MaxLock service. We do that for free upon request.

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I know what it is, pure gravy, but it's what the consumer believes as they feel protected with OWNERSHIP PROTECTION. I see many business, and corporate users buy it, as the words of the product make them feel secure for $10 a year. I believe it is more big words, than actual higher level threat security, but this is something you will be up against, and I guess you have to point out the differences. Also are you sure consumers understand what a DN is? If I wasn't a domainer, I don't think I would know.

wwwweb said:

I know what it is, pure gravy, but it's what the consumer believes as they feel protected with OWNERSHIP PROTECTION. I see many business, and corporate users buy it, as the words of the product make them feel secure for $10 a year. I believe it is more big words, than actual higher level threat security, but this is something you will be up against, and I guess you have to point out the differences. Also are you sure consumers understand what a DN is? If I wasn't a domainer, I don't think I would know.

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I call that "Free Ice in the winter". It is nice business if you can get it, but not exactly a great service to humanity. I prefer to solve an actual problem and deliver real value.

As for DN, we definitely debated on it, and concluded that in any scenario, it will be a consultative sale, similar to Cyber Liability insurance. It just needs a sales rep.

bhartzer said:

If you were browsing domains on a marketplace and you saw that certain domains were already checked and approved, would you be more likely to buy that domain?

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if ALL domains had such approval prior to being listed, that would surely benefit all who participated.

but, if domains had to be approved and one service was beneficiary of that mandate, then I would see it as an obstruction and a potential monopoly.

Rob Monster said:

The idea is that it will be possible to look up any domain's DNP score

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the best "score" ever, was Overture score with extension.

now, if the objective is to have DNP score, then will domains without one, be deemed less valuable?
and...
if in association with "Da bot", then would having or not having a DNP score affect it's results on a query?

I can see where some protections for transactions of rare names could benefit, but for the average joe like me, in majority of cases, using some common sense and research could suffice.

so for me, i don't see a need for a new metric to be established, by which my domain can be assessed.

imo...

Rob Monster said:

The cases for abrupt domain loss are probably rising, notably for .COM.

Consider the famous case of Gab.com, covered at length here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...dy-24-hours-to-transfer-or-suspension.1107245

That was a $300,000 domain that was rendered inoperable when it was under a domain loan with a 4th party. Yes, Epik came to the rescue there. If we had not, probably lights out there.

Or consider this case:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/legitscript-and-name-com-holding-domains-hostage.1141035/

That was lights-out. They never got their domain back, and they had no money to hire a lawyer.

As a registrar, I see many frivolous UDRP cases. I deal with them regularly, and usually take a pragmatic approaches, but some lawyers just like to run up the meter for their clients. It happens all the time.

There are many cases like this -- likely far more than you realize and the trend is frankly not in favor of registrants that are under-equipped or under-funded to defend their rights.

So, yes, I think pooled reserves against shared risk is a timely countermeasure against nonsense.

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Gab and that pharma product reseller are highly unusual case for the 99.99999% of businesses. They don't have to deal with what is protected speech versus what is enabling supremacists and radicals. And most businesses are not selling pharma products online to risk dealing with legitscript. So, basically, you are limiting the market to fringe operations, meaning your pool of potential customers worldwide might be 10,000 businesses and only 5% of those might feel need or afford this.

What I am basically saying you have to do a bit more brainstorming to find a more non-niche pain to take care of.

Recons.Com said:

What I am basically saying you have to do a bit more brainstorming to find a more non-niche pain to take care of.

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I agree, if you are dealing with a small pool of high risk clients, then it will break the bank every time you have to pay up on an insurance claim. But to offer DNP risk assessment score to be used for high value and important domains by the general public might be a better idea.

@Rob Monster is there an insurance aspect for buying a domain name and then it taken away from you because it was stolen.

Example: I see a 3L.com I like on Sedo, I do check whois history, do a full search on Google deep diving for any posts about potential theft or controversy nothing shows up on those searches but of course with how so many registrars obscure whois due to GDPR I might not get a complete picture.

So I buy the name for $18,000 and it's transferred to me from Sedo. So now two months later, the registar or registry (Verisign) tell me the name was stolen, they have done their homework and are removing the name from my account to the rightful owner. Sedo and GoDaddy have both told me as I gave them both this scenario, they will not refund me for the purchase of stolen goods on their platform, but they are truly sorry. (#GFY).

So would this product provide an opportunity when purchasing the name at Sedo to buy an insurance product that will insure if the name was stolen unbeknownst to me and taken back that I get a full refund for what I paid?

I had somehow missed this important discussion until @James Iles mentionrd it in his summary.. Many important points have been made. While protection against things like a future DDoS can be important, I think that the insurance product should focus on

equity78 said:

is designed to protect end-users from buying damaged domain

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i.e. Is this domain damaged NOW because it was stolen or is trademark infringing.
Bob

Bob Hawkes said:

I had somehow missed this important discussion until @James Iles mentionrd it in his summary.. Many important points have been made. While protection against things like a future DDoS can be important, I think that the insurance product should focus on
i.e. Is this domain damaged NOW because it was stolen or is trademark infringing.
Bob

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Yes I think this is where there would be a lot of value Bob, so I want to see what @Rob Monster says.

equity78 said:

Yes I think this is where there would be a lot of value Bob, so I want to see what @Rob Monster says.

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The score that @bhartzer is developing is about the present risk assessment.

The optional report would add diagnostic detail and expanded recommendations for how to improve.

The insurance product is designed to mitigate risk of unforeseen impairment or loss.

Rob Monster said:

The score that @bhartzer is developing is about the present risk assessment.

The optional report would add diagnostic detail and expanded recommendations for how to improve.

The insurance product is designed to mitigate risk of unforeseen impairment or loss.

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But it would not protect me from buying a domain for $20,000 at Sedo and then losing it later to Verisign or GoDaddy (hypothetical) taking it out of my account and giving it to the reported stolen domain owner.

equity78 said:

But it would not protect me from buying a domain for $20,000 at Sedo and then losing it later to Verisign or GoDaddy (hypothetical) taking it out of my account and giving it to the reported stolen domain owner.

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Actually, the insurance scenario is precisely to protect for a case like that. The underwriting review has to assess that risk but once it is insured, the policy should cover loss through UDRP or registry seizure.

The registry seizure scenario sounds far-fetched to same, but as covered elsewhere in this thread, it happens quite often. The term the industry is using is called "Quarantine" or "Sinkholing".

The chance that any single domain gets seized, quarantined or sinkholed in a domain is low. The chance that it happens to some domain is high. Insurance lets people spread the cost and risk.

An insured domain could then either:

1. Defend/fight for the restoration of the domain

2. Pay out enough in settlement to cover the switching cost.

@Rob Monster

What about the potential to hurt domain investment business?

What if you give a low score to one of domains and kill a potential deal, because of a subjective algorithm?

Recons.Com said:

@Rob Monster

What about the potential to hurt domain investment business?

What if you give a low score to one of domains and kill a potential deal, because of a subjective algorithm?

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It happens with Estibot all the time.

It happens with credit reports all the time.

Specific to DNP scores, I expect there will be a review process where a score can be requested for manual review for accuracy. From what I know so far from Bill's algorithm, the scoring engine will get it right most of the time, but if a situation changes, it should be possible to re-score a domain .

Rob Monster said:

It happens with Estibot all the time.

It happens with credit reports all the time.

Specific to DNP scores, I expect there will be a review process where a score can be requested for manual review for accuracy. From what I know so far from Bill's algorithm, the scoring engine will get it right most of the time, but if a situation changes, it should be possible to re-score a domain .

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Estibot is a joke. I hope that is not your benchmark for the standard.

No buyer/seller takes Estibot values seriously, and, of course, no one is paying for them.

Also, saying "the name per our bot valuation is xxxx" is much more harmless than saying "per our safety valuation this name scores low and can be liability to own".

Hello Rob, i sent you messages few days ago, but not get reply yet. You said on ur thread that we can claim the name for free which submitted to contest of name protection, since it was available to hand register. Did you register namelegit.com ? thank you. I want to claim it.

Sorry i posted here, since i couldnt find the thread

marcreative said:

Hello Rob, i sent you messages few days ago, but not get reply yet. You said on ur thread that we can claim the name for free which submitted to contest of name protection, since it was available to hand register. Did you register namelegit.com ? thank you. I want to claim it.

Sorry i posted here, since i couldnt find the thread

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Never saw your request. We don't own NameLegit.com and never registered it. The person who owns it has an email address that starts with "m". I did not include NameLegit in the poll because the word sounded too informal -- as in "tha'ts legit Bro!" -- to be considered a brand for protecting high value IP assets.

Rob Monster said:

Specific to DNP scores, I expect there will be a review process where a score can be requested for manual review for accuracy. From what I know so far from Bill's algorithm, the scoring engine will get it right most of the time, but if a situation changes, it should be possible to re-score a domain .

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Yes, there definitely is a way to request a manual review if there are questions about a particular DNP score. Keep in mind that the algorithm for DNP scores does not include any valuation or $$ value of a domain. It looks at factors related to prior use of the domain and current use. If a domain has a low score and the owner wishes to improve the score, there are things that can be done to improve the score.

bhartzer said:

Yes, there definitely is a way to request a manual review if there are questions about a particular DNP score. Keep in mind that the algorithm for DNP scores does not include any valuation or $$ value of a domain. It looks at factors related to prior use of the domain and current use. If a domain has a low score and the owner wishes to improve the score, there are things that can be done to improve the score.

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And who exactly is requesting this manual review? You are going to get in touch with the potential seller and write something like "hey, you don't know us and you don't know that you might have had a nice sale, but we ruined it for you, because our report to potential buyer said this name is tainted. If you want to request manual review, please, be our guest"? ))))

Recons.Com said:

And who exactly is requesting this manual review? You are going to get in touch with the potential seller and write something like "hey, you don't know us and you don't know that you might have had a nice sale, but we ruined it for you, because our report to potential buyer said this name is tainted. If you want to request manual review, please, be our guest"? ))))

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Good point. If personal data (PII) is held about an EU citizen or resident, they have under GDPR the right to ask to review and even delete it. And they also have the right to ask to have any automated decision about them subject to manual ie human review.

Recons.Com said:

@Rob Monster

What about the potential to hurt domain investment business?

What if you give a low score to one of domains and kill a potential deal, because of a subjective algorithm?

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Also sooner or later people will try to game the system, allow the domain to be "stolen" by a partner, and then the "buyer" claims the insurance when the domain is taken back.

The big issue here is that a good name can be labeled as a liability over things that a new owner could have fixed with some effort.