events It's bad. No worse. It's sad.

Yes, starting 2014 there were already millions and millions of aftermarket domains for sale. Industry turnover was 1-2%. In what other industry can you sit on more than 95% of your inventory and not go bust? So why did we need more extensions? Well, we didn't. While low-budget developers and end users might have complained about all the short .COM domains being taken, so what. A real estate developer who wants to build a condo or office complex in a prime location is going to have to pay a lot more than $10 for the property. The fact that industry turnover was so low was actually an indication of a lack of demand for aftermarket domains, not the need for more extensions. So now we have added another ~15 million aftermarket domains in two years. Who is going to buy them? How many years of end user aftermarket purchases will it take to absorb all that inventory? One new TLD every couple years OK but a thousand new TLDs in two years is unnecessary.

Companies like google, tata are responsible for many of the losses faced by internet companies and domain investors in India.In india many domain investors are facing losses because google, tata are allegedly falsely claiming that the lazy greedy fraud mistresses, lovers, girlfriends and relatives of top officials, who do have never spent a single rupee on domain names, own domain names to give these frauds government jobs , while real domain investors are denied the opportunities they deserved

The google, tata sponsored fraud government employees are least interested in spending a single penny on domain names, yet rely on their powerful fraud lovers, boyfriends and relatives in intelligence, security agencies to falsely claim that they own domain names, so they are getting great powers, a salary for doing nothing at the expense of the domain investor, who is getting nothing. These google sponsored fraudsters then spend the money they are getting from the internet sector on cars and other products

Till internet companies worldwide are honest about the google, tata sponsored domain fraud, especially in India, why these companies are promoting domain fraudsters, internet companies will continue to make a loss as the real domain investors have no money to spend online on new tlds, especially in India

dnk said:

Companies like google, tata are responsible for many of the losses faced by internet companies and domain investors in India.In india many domain investors are facing losses because google, tata are allegedly falsely claiming that the lazy greedy fraud mistresses, lovers, girlfriends and relatives of top officials, who do have never spent a single rupee on domain names, own domain names to give these frauds government jobs , while real domain investors are denied the opportunities they deserved

The google, tata sponsored fraud government employees are least interested in spending a single penny on domain names, yet rely on their powerful fraud lovers, boyfriends and relatives in intelligence, security agencies to falsely claim that they own domain names, so they are getting great powers, a salary for doing nothing at the expense of the domain investor, who is getting nothing. These google sponsored fraudsters then spend the money they are getting from the internet sector on cars and other products

Till internet companies worldwide are honest about the google, tata sponsored domain fraud, especially in India, why these companies are promoting domain fraudsters, internet companies will continue to make a loss as the real domain investors have no money to spend online on new tlds, especially in India

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What in the world.... SMH.

Why are companies like google, tata, ntro officials falsely claiming that the lazy greedy girlfriends and relatives of top officials are domain investors to give them great powers , indian government jobs when these fraud girlfriends, relatives have never invested a single penny on domain names, and are least interested in doing so

dnk said:

Why are companies like google, tata, ntro officials falsely claiming that the lazy greedy girlfriends and relatives of top officials are domain investors to give them great powers , indian government jobs when these fraud girlfriends, relatives have never invested a single penny on domain names, and are least interested in doing so

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Took a little effort, but I now understand what TATA and NTRO are. I still don't understand what you are dealing with in India, but it sounds bad. There can be corruption anywhere.

I don't know why the officials would do that. Very interesting information though.

Google wants to destroy the life, finances and health of domain investors who are also link sellers, competing with google adwords. Other companies want to acquire talent and technology cheaply. It is a very big fraud in India, only no one is willing to acknowledge or cover the news.

Thanks for the tip - I've just shortened them!

Just kidding of course!

It's not unusual for new companies to operate at a financial loss in the beginning. They can raise money by giving up parts of their company to private investors in tranches. First, they have to give up more of their company for less money but as revenue grows, they have to give up less and less for more and more funds. And they don't actually have to make a profit during that time. Believe me, investors are no fools - otherwise they would have no money to invest.

Also, they have a lot of virtual assets (premium domains and gTLDs). You'd be surprised how long companies can stay in business at an operational loss before they eventually start making a profit and take off.

Brandon

And 10 million operational loss in a year is a relatively small amount for a company of this size. They aren't big but they aren't small either.

Let some heads roll, get more funding, streamline things, cut costs and change a few things around. Next year it may look completely different.

Brandon

Brandon.Domains said:

And 10 million operational loss in a year is a relatively small amount for a company of this size. They aren't big but they aren't small either.

Let some heads roll, get more funding, streamline things, cut costs and change a few things around. Next year it may look completely different.

Brandon

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You need to do a bit of research - its market cap is £65 million at todays stock price. Cash reserves £30million. Growth of names less than 10%.
This is what the company predicted in 2014 make £2.5 million in 2015 increasing to £5.5 million in 2016 and £11million in 2017 by 2020 that the market cap would be at least £1000million.
Since then shares have halved and I think they are still over valued. Never issued a dividend.
Sounds like a pig of a stock. Yeah sounds so easy cut costs more funding, in fact I have it on good authority if you invest £500,000 in them you can get a seat on the board. Wait until the share price is halved again then it would be worth jumping in

betthelot said:

You need to do a bit of research - its market cap is £65 million at todays stock price. Cash reserves £30million. Growth of names less than 10%.
This is what the company predicted in 2014 make £2.5 million in 2015 increasing to £5.5 million in 2016 and £11million in 2017 by 2020 that the market cap would be at least £1000million.

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They have 200 extensions. So compared to Verisign $10 billion market cap, they might have expected the nGTLD business worth as much as as .com and .net by 2020 and by 2025 .com would have been irrelevant.

dordomai said:

They have 200 extensions. So compared to Verisign $10 billion market cap, they might have expected the nGTLD business worth as much as as .com and .net by 2020 and by 2025 .com would have been irrelevant.

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Thats exactly how they came up with what they thought the company would be worth in 2020. They assumed getting 10% of versigns market share.

betthelot said:

Thats exactly how they came up with what they thought the company would be worth in 2020. They assumed getting 10% of versigns market share.

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Since they have approx. 20% market share they thought nGTLDs 50% of .com business by 2020.

I think it was the founder or chairman who had claimed that .com would be dead within 10 years. They might have really believed this.

This shows how overly optimistic they were.

dordomai said:

Since they have approx. 20% market share they thought nGTLDs 50% of .com business by 2020.

I think it was the founder or chairman who had claimed that .com would be dead within 10 years. They might have really believed this.

This shows how overly optimistic they were.

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Hes the guy who did say dot com will be dead in 10years and walked away in January with $1.1million having been ousted by the other board members. He gets $1.1million and the investors are left with a bag of spam invested names

With an Excel spreadsheet you can always make optimistic projections of how rosy the future is going to look. However, are the assumptions made in coming up with those projections realistic?

All new TLD strings are largely dependent on domainers for the initial few years and then a hope that the general public embraces them soon afterwards. Again, .Net is thirty years old and still is not a great extension for domain investors. .TV is fifteen years old and there are numerous examples of end users branding video-oriented sites on the extension - not so great for .TV investors having to pay $30/year for a portfolio of them (even worse for those who got stuck with legacy premiums of $250-$500/year). .Info might be OK for developers but seriously how many .Info sales do you see on DNJ every week? .Info has been around at least a dozen years.

Again, a few years ago there was a plethora of millions and millions of aftermarket domains available for any end user that needed a premium domain and was willing to pay a fair price for it. If they did not have the budget for a one-word .COM, they had choices - .Net, .Info, .TV, .Org, CCTLD, .CO, .ME, .Biz, and of course there were many two-word .aftermarket .COMs available at a much lower price. There was no need for a thousand new extensions.

OK now users have more choice but if most nTLD registrations are investors, how long can that last? Investors can only pay renewals if there are end users buying in the aftermarket. End users still prefer reg fee domains and don't like paying a premium - even though they will spend thousands of dollars on other business expenditures.

We don't need more TLDs - we need more end users willing to pay a premium price for a domain. Without end users willing to pay for aftermarket domains, speculation in domain names is not sustainable.

Brandon.Domains said:

It's not unusual for new companies to operate at a financial loss in the beginning. They can raise money by giving up parts of their company to private investors in tranches.

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Making losses and burning money in the beginning is normal, but what are the long-term prospects. Many strings are dubious assets that are unpopular among end users. If they can't sell enough to be profitable, then they'll have to diversify or change their business model. That means walk away from new extensions and into different ventures.

Brandon.Domains said:

Believe me, investors are no fools - otherwise they would have no money to invest.

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Just because they have money to invest doesn't mean that are so smart and know what they are doing. It's obvious that there are many new players in the industry (registries and their backers) who have little or no experience of the domain industry. Look at their delusional business plans and zany predictions. They have failure written all over them. Did they really expect that after releasing all those silly strings demand would follow ? What kind of market studies have been done to justify the selection of strings (for example .blackfriday or .hiv) ? Were they all drunk at the board meetings ? Perhaps they should have listened more to domainers.

Brandon.Domains said:

You'd be surprised how long companies can stay in business at an operational loss before they eventually start making a profit and take off.

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Godaddy for example :D

more to come. Many brands aren't happy either.

Some of the world's biggest brands, including Intel, Nike, Target, Netflix, Lego, UPS and the NFL have been told to put their namesake dot-word domains live in the next three months or risk losing them altogether. Domain name overseer ICANN has warned 200-plus companies in a blog post that there is a 12-month deadline from …

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https://www.namepros.com/threads/ne...ys-use-them-or-lose-them.942437/#post-5493490

Kate said:

Perhaps they should have listened more to domainers.

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Ahh you are forgetting domainers are bottom feeders right at the bottom of the food chain. There is nothing we can tell the good and great that they dont already know.
We are plankton but without which there are no big fish and no great sharks. Domainers are part of the eco system that is vastly under valued but of course they know all that. Go Donuts, Go MMX, Famous Four Affilias try and become the big whales without us.

betthelot said:

Ahh you are forgetting domainers are bottom feeders right at the bottom of the food chain. There is nothing we can tell the good and great that they dont already know.

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Many "domainers" have gone far enough to lead successful lives and have tremendous influence in the industry. There's no need to be so pessimistic.

Domains are part of the free open market and domainers are a huge part of it. Don't underestimate their voice.

Rick Ace said:

Many "domainers" have gone far enough to lead successful lives and have tremendous influence in the industry. There's no need to be so pessimistic.

Domains are part of the free open market and domainers are a huge part of it. Don't underestimate their voice.

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There is no hope for you Rick - you just read what you want to believe - how you interpreted my post as me underestimating domainers voice or their part they play isn't huge; only you and your maker will know.

betthelot said:

Sorry not making it clearer, I did rush it somewhat. In summary today MMX a major registry of the new gTLTDs posted year end accounts for 2015, showing $10 million loss for the year. When you dig into the figures 2 things struck me 1) they paid their CEO $350,000 and gave a performance bonus of $400,000 together with his last years payment of $350,00 he walked away in January having been paid 1.1millionUSD for 2 years work.
2) They started to employee sales people to do cold calls to prospective endusers, to sell their premium names and they have I think 28 different strings .london .law being their best ones. Upshot was it didnt work so the 13 sales people they employed have stopped getting on the phone or sending emails to endusers soliciting sales. Now they employ less sales staff and only react to incoming inquires basically sit and wait and hope to sell some names at premium prices.

link http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/MMX/12793409.html

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can you imagine if your money were tied up with investors such as these...
they clearly do not have enough common sense to be handed the ball in this particular game... perhaps loss was the goal at the get go - take and bail...

betthelot said:

There is no hope for you Rick - you just read what you want to believe - how you interpreted my post as me underestimating domainers voice or their part they play isn't huge; only you and your maker will know.

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What? haha. You completely lost me there. :P

All I'm saying is that you need to convert this dramatic (and somewhat pessimistic) discussion into a fact-based conversation so that actual progress can be made. Can you do that? To me it seems like there just isn't enough data to make conclusions. Many of the things that have been said here are based on opinions. But you are free to expand upon your idea.

Mainly, you just need to clarify on what you think is the problem and what proof you have for it? You can't just bash an entire set of TLDs with the hopes of catching everyone's attention.

The other day somewhere in the form I said some of the specific gTLDs may fail and generic gTLDs may succeed.

DNScholar said:

The other day somewhere in the form I said some of the specific gTLDs may fail and generic gTLDs may succeed.

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I believe I came across that post. I was asking bethelot, as he spoke for new TLDs in general.

Josytal said:

The bane of most new gTLDs.

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I'm very interested, but a lot of them are shooting themselves in the foot by charging insane renewal fees for so-called "premium" domains.

I don't like it when a domainer gets a name I want first, and then charges me a lot for it. But that's just the way it goes, that's the business, and it is a one time expense.

But when a registry wants to charge me a huge chunk every year, that I won't go for no matter how good the name is.

I also don't believe it is fair market for the registry to charge more for some domains. When domainers buy a lot of domains, they are taking a financial risk and will adjust the market value according to what return they can get on their investment. The new gTLDs though don't have that same risk with their "premium" names - it isn't a fair market.

The new gTLDs need to cut the premium cr4p and stop trying to do what domainers exist to do. Without a fair market, they will always be looked upon with disdain.

UniflexDomains said:

I dont know much about this subject but Im going to have a guess at what I think will happen...

90% of new gtld registries will go bust and there will be lots of angry people.

I wouldnt go puting money on the ravings of a mad man though...

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They will go bust and be bought, rather than vanish.