.tv Demand Media Update & Clarifications

[qdaly]

Hi Everyone,

I just logged on and saw that there are some questions so I wanted to post some clarifications to help clear up any misunderstandings. I also wanted to share with you the press release that went out this AM about me.tv. And finally, give you a heads up that we are working on a re-cap of the first day of premium sales which I will share with this group as soon as it's final.

Okay, first, some clarification:
- Renewal Pricing: The price that is paid for a premium name is the same as the renewal price. So if you bought a name for $500, the renewal is $500. We are letting everyone know that this is subject to change, because we are not in control of this TLD. The price could be higher and the price could be lower. There is also the option to lock in the name at the set price for multiple years, but does require paying for it up front.
- Cost vs. Price: I also wanted to clarify this nuance because in my communications I have been telling folks that Verisign sets the "pricing". Well, to be clear, Verisign sets the cost and as a retailer, Demand Media/eNom can set the pricing. We believe that in order to drive sales, we need to keep as many premium names as possible at cost. So, in that regard, we are not setting the price, we are defaulting to the cost.

The ME.TV press release:
I don't think there is any new information, but just wanted to let the form know that it is out:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070502/20070502005879.html?.v=1

I will plan to post updates on the premium sales tonight or first thing tomorrow. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best, Quinn

 

[MrRhee]

I've seen contract language like that before and the answers still do not comfort me completely. Maybe it's just me, but I won't be investing more into .TV until I do more due diligence. More & more I look into it, .MOBI makes more sense.

question for you qdaly...

since DEMAND doesn't control premium prices? does tha also mean that you don't influence them either? is their a CAP on how much the renewal price can raise above the registration price?

i.e. capped at 10% raise per year, if any.

or is it open ended? because if it is open-ended... I think that's going to be the TLD's deathblow.

at 10% cap: If I paid $1000 for a premium and know that it will be $1000 (up to $1100 max) to renew it, I'd sleep better at night. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who sets the pricing (DEMAND, VRSN, Carson, etc), you all need to work it out so that we know exactly what the cap will be or else this renewal pricing fiasco will linger, because if you think about it, we still don't have any definitive answer.

or am I still lost? does anyone see what I'm saying?

 

[Dr. Mindwrecker]

I've seen contract language like that before and the answers still do not comfort me completely. Maybe it's just me, but I won't be investing more into .TV until I do more due diligence. More & more I look into it, .MOBI makes more sense.

question for you qdaly...

since DEMAND doesn't control premium prices? does tha also mean that you don't influence them either? is their a CAP on how much the renewal price can raise above the registration price?

i.e. capped at 10% raise per year, if any.

or is it open ended? because if it is open-ended... I think that's going to be the TLD's deathblow.

at 10% cap: If I paid $1000 for a premium and know that it will be $1000 (up to $1100 max) to renew it, I'd sleep better at night. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who sets the pricing (DEMAND, VRSN, Carson, etc), you all need to work it out so that we know exactly what the cap will be or else this renewal pricing fiasco will linger, because if you think about it, we still don't have any definitive answer.

or am I still lost? does anyone see what I'm saying?

This question should be answered, and you are right a cap would make more sense.

 

[smashfactory]

if i am correct, and tell me if this is wrong because i am speculating- arent the prices of .com going up? and net and org? i thought i heard this somewhere- if that is the case, then with any tld, the price can rise, or lower, cant it? and is this not technically the same deal with other tlds, it is just not something that normally happens?

didint many years ago we used to pay like 70.00 to network solutions for a com because they were the only game in town? but things have changed, and that is not to say they can one day be that again, right?

the only point i am trying to get across is- is it not true that ANY tld can have a price change, and in fact you cant count on anything to be for sure?

 

[-NC-]

is it not true that ANY tld can have a price change, and in fact you cant count on anything to be for sure

Verisign have said that they will be raising the reg fee price of .coms by 30% over six years, so that means everyone knows exactly whats coming, for a long time to come. I think more premium .tv's would be bought if you could say the same for .tv domains.

 

[think]

Is it just a yearly renewal? Can I get a discount by agreeing to a longer term contract?
When purchasing a .TV domain name, customers are given the option upfront of securing one, two, three, four five and ten-year registrations. Presently, we do not offer multi-year renewals.

I was never given any option to renew my domains for any length of time when I purchased my PREMIUM TV. The lack of mutli-year renewals is at the heart of this discussion. From the largest of domain investors like Frank Schilling , to many mid cap investors like myself we have tried to explain this is the hang up that could kill the 4th relaunch of Dot TV.

There is no way I will purchase a high dollar ($5,000 plus) premium domain with premium renewals on it without a way to renew domains when I want to and for as long as I want to without having to find an email address or phone number for support to try and renew my name.

Yes, I already have 6 PREMIUMS and will work with Demand Media to protect my investment and develop these properties But as for further purchases you lost me. I'm out.

EDIT: I've added these comments from Frank Schilling's blog which I think is an ends all statement to this discussion at least in my eyes:

" Note to the registry operator: This may seem obvious, but the reason .com secondary market prices are robust is 'because' renewals are predictable. You can't sell Books.tv for $10,000 and charge exorbitant renewals. Only suckers buy into that. .TV tried exorbitant prices and renewals the first time around and managed to ensnare a few suckers and little else. This time around people need to know where they stand. Publish your renewal costs prominently and keep them consistent well into the future, 'that' is how to build a great namespace. If you want to bring incremental revenue, apply some nominal transfer tax when names change owners but without equitable consistent renewals your namespace will never reach its full potential. JMO "

Link to Mr. Schilling's blog: http://frankschilling.typepad.com/

 

[-OutlawBiker-]

So there you have it, what you pay this year will be what you pay next year.
Get your business plans out, this is the way it is...

I thought we already knew this was the deal earlier in the year anyways.

Thanx Quinn!

That is NOT what Quinn said. This is what Quinn said.

Renewal
Will the renewal rate ever go up?
Annual Renewal fees for .TV premium names will be the same as the initial "Buy Now" registration price. Demand Media is required by law to also inform its customers that renewal prices are “subject to change.” This is because, as a retailer, Demand Media doesn’t determine or control the cost of names.

How I read that is that at the time Quinn wrote it, the price for a 1 year renewal was / will be the same as the initial buy now fee, BUT the renewal fees are "subject to change" which means they could change the renewal fee next month, or whenever and you'd be paying whatever they came up with by the time your name came up.

 

[Broker]

So people who paid $50,000 for a name can expect to pay atleast that to renew and maybe even more or less depending. Rediculous imho!

 

[antonis12]

Hi Quinn,

Thanks for your message.

Some comments:

Will the renewal rate ever go up?
Annual Renewal fees for .TV premium names will be the same as the initial "Buy Now" registration price.

That is fine. That is what we thought.

Demand Media is required by law to also inform its customers that renewal prices are “subject to change.” This is because, as a retailer, Demand Media doesn’t determine or control the cost of names.

I am not aware of any law forbidding *Verisign* from making a statement about whether or not renewal pricing is fixed.

All true TLDs have contractual language along those lines.

When purchasing a .TV domain name, customers are given the option upfront of securing one, two, three, four five and ten-year registrations.

This was not the case on May 1st if I am not mistaken

Presently, we do not offer multi-year renewals.

What is the rationale for this?

The only reason I can imagine for not wanting to collect money upfront for multiple years is if prices are going to rise.

 

[Dr. Mindwrecker]

What is the rationale for this?

The only reason I can imagine for not wanting to collect money upfront for multiple years is if prices are going to rise.

This one point does need to be clarified, you should be able to make a renewal anytime you want.

That is NOT what Quinn said. This is what Quinn said.

How I read that is that at the time Quinn wrote it, the price for a 1 year renewal was / will be the same as the initial buy now fee, BUT the renewal fees are "subject to change" which means they could change the renewal fee next month, or whenever and you'd be paying whatever they came up with by the time your name came up.

She said the "Buy it now price" is the renewal fee next year.

"What you pay now is what you pay next year", as in PUT IT IN YOUR BUDGET FOR YOUR BUSINESS PLAN, AND CALL A LAWYER AND PLAN THIS AS AN EXPENSE

 

[Broker]

Somebody seriously needs to look into this. I see a major lawsuit coming. Just doesnt seem fair to charge such rediculous high fees for not only the domains but renewals to match bin price? Fishy fishy fishy IMHO!

Somebodys gotta go down for this :td:

 

[antonis12]

She said the "Buy it now price" is the renewal fee next year.

"What you pay now is what you pay next year", as in PUT IT IN YOUR BUDGET FOR YOUR BUSINESS PLAN, AND CALL A LAWYER AND PLAN THIS AS AN EXPENSE

Mindwrecker.

I honestly do not understand your posts over the last few days.

I don't think anyone would be particularly worried if we were comfortable that "What you pay now is what you pay next year" was what was going to happen.

That is the model that all of us who have been buying premium names for the last 2 years have been working under and planning for since that is what Verisign always said was the case with premiums.

The thing that is causing issues right now is that DM and VSGN suddenly won't actually guarantee that "What you pay now is what you pay next year" so I am not sure how to put [random number between $0 and infinity] which is what Quinn is actually saying your renewal fee will be "into a business plan".

Antonis

Somebody seriously needs to look into this. I see a major lawsuit coming. Just doesnt seem fair to charge such rediculous high fees for not only the domains but renewals to match bin price? Fishy fishy fishy IMHO!

Somebodys gotta go down for this :td:

HasRob, I think you are focusing on the wrong thing.

.tv and Demand media have every right in the world to charge high renewal fees and high upfront fees for .tv domains.

.tv is a ccTLD, not a gTLD, and therefore they can choose whatever pricing model they want. they could choose to say all names cost $100,000,000 to register and you have to move to Tuvalu and wear a funny hat as a condition of registration. Of course, they won't register any names under that model, but that is their right.

The issue at hand is that pre-3 days ago and for the last 7 years Verisign made certain representations about the stability of renewal fees that caused many people (including every serious developer and investor on this board) to register .tv premiums.

Verisign right now *appears* to be backing off those assertations and that is what the problem and where legal issues (if any) might appear. You can't really say: "here is the drill" to dozens of people to induce them to pay you XXX,XXX or X,XXX,XXX cumulatively and then 6 months later say "just kidding"

 

[Dr. Mindwrecker]

Mindwrecker.

I honestly do not understand your posts over the last few days.

Are you referring to my opinion on the premiums fee's
or my opinion on the renewal fee's?

Or both? LOL

 

[Broker]

HasRob, I think you are focusing on the wrong thing.

.tv and Demand media have every right in the world to charge high renewal fees and high upfront fees for .tv domains.




Well it is what it is. I think it sucks period. Who gives them that right? Christ, if it aint freakin gas prices its domain names. I seriously need to hit the powerball or just jump off a bridge. I'm luzin it I tell ya :hehe:

 

[antonis12]

Are you referring to my opinion on the premiums fee's
or my opinion on the renewal fee's?

Or both? LOL

Your opinion that all is OK now the Quinn has said Renewal fees are the same as BIN prices because now we can plan in our budget.

That just takes us back to what we already knew but with an additional "Prices Subject to Change" warning that is front and center.

Which takes us right back to an ability *not* to be able to plan at all. LOL

 

[-OutlawBiker-]

She said the "Buy it now price" is the renewal fee next year.

"What you pay now is what you pay next year", as in PUT IT IN YOUR BUDGET FOR YOUR BUSINESS PLAN, AND CALL A LAWYER AND PLAN THIS AS AN EXPENSE

Where does she say that? I see where she says "Annual Renewal fees for .TV premium names will be the same as the initial Buy Now registration price" and then immediately says it's "subject to change." That is NOT the same as saying "what you pay next year" if they "change" it next week.

 

[cybertonic]

They have INFORMATION's OBLIGATION to the buyers.

They written NOWHERE the cost of premium renewals.

Yesterday I taken the decision to ask a FULL REFUND of all the premium purchased these last days (+12K) if the renewal is not under $50 for each domain (high average of renewal for any TLD extension) otherwise what they are doing is PURE SCAM and it's legitimate to ask a refund.

They say I will get a response Monday.


...

 

[StoneRoses]

They have INFORMATION's OBLIGATION to the buyers.

They written NOWHERE the cost of premium renewals.

Yesterday I taken the decision to ask a FULL REFUND of all the premium purchased these last days (+12K) if the renewal is not under $50 for each domain (high average of renewal for any TLD extension) otherwise what they are doing is PURE SCAM and it's legitimate to ask a refund.

They say I will get a response Monday.


...

I may have completely misunderstood what you are saying,Are you seriously saying you bought 12k worth of premium names without knowing that all premium names are going to at least the reg fee for renewal, and now you expect the renewal on all of them to be less than $50 each?.

 

[scooby47]

Unless I read it wrong too. It sure reads like that is what he is saying!

How that was not understood that the premiums carry a renewal fee of at least the same of the purchase price, I will never know it has been discussed at length here.

Caveat Emptor : Pricing can be subject to change !

 

[cybertonic]

Yes I purchased around 12K of premiums.

...

There was a RUMOR here that renewal = acquisition price.
But I thought it was simply a stupid buzz.

It was NOT explicitely written in the site where the premium dot TV was for sale that the renewal was equal to the acquisition price and the buyer cannot guess this absurd pricing buzz be true.

So yes anyone that ask a full refund SHOULD get it otherwise this company can be sued for not provide this information.

It's too easy to be selling domains for thousands and after ask the same amount as renewal when the norm is to pay less than $50/per domain/year for any registration!
This company is missleading buyers!!!!

This is PURE SCAM and legally we can complaint.


...

 

[virtuali]

I agree with cybertonic. The problem here is that the pricing schemtic has no consistancy. Some premiums are the same as the reg fee to renew and some are a HUGE amount of money upfront and then only $50/y afterwords. This is the way it was run previous to DM. Now, there is alot of uncertainty with premiums, nobody knows what it is going to be in the future and that is a major roadblock. My experience with the premium domains has always been to be in contact verisign and negotiate. I own a few and I have only paid what the list price was once. And that was on May 1. I cannot see any future for the extension if a company is going to be able to goug the buyers at anytime by saying "subject to change".

 

[RPK]

Yes I purchased around 12K of premiums.

...

There was a RUMOR here that renewal = acquisition price.
But I thought it was simply a stupid buzz.

It was NOT explicitely written in the site where the premium dot TV was for sale that the renewal was equal to the acquisition price and the buyer cannot guess this absurd pricing buzz be true.

So yes anyone that ask a full refund SHOULD get it otherwise this company can be sued for not provide this information.

It's too easy to be selling domains for thousands and after ask the same amount as renewal when the norm is to pay less than $50/per domain/year for any registration!
This company is missleading buyers!!!!

This is PURE SCAM and legally we can complaint.


...

Cybertonic does have a real point. Him and I'm sure many others were unaware of the high renewel fee. I can see why they thought they were paying a one time high fee and then a much lower renewel cost. I can't excuse myself since I have been on this board for more then 6 months, but I can assure you that is the renewels were $50.00 or less I would have purchased at least another 20 premiums as well as I'm sure many others on this board.

 

[StoneRoses]

We have been over this numerous times, the premiums that are reg fee were bought long ago, there is nothing confusing about this at all.

If you bought a premium name on or after May 1st you pay a premium renewal each year.

I am stunned at some of the ridiculous comments about this, if you want to invest in anything then you should research and fully understand how these things work, and if you are not happy or slightly unsure,then don't buy it.

This board has covered this at length on numerous occasions ,

I am gobsmacked, Unbelievable!!!

If you asked me for a refund it wouldn't take until Monday for me to tell you what i thought.

 

[cybertonic]

The problem is that all this has been prepared as a BIG SCAM!

First the interview of NameMedia CEO in DNJournal.com saying the dot TV was a terrific extension that will worth a lot in the future, a real domain investment.

Me as probably thousand domainers have thought these last weeks that the dot TV was the next gold mine extension.

That's simple, I NEVER purchased a dot TV and after reading DNJournal.com I purchased 4 or 5 in the aftermarket for big dollars.
And was present May 1th to get sure to purchase few of these great available premium domains.

Until here, no problem.

The problem is they did not inform these domains will have an unusual high renewal rate over $50/domain that will lead to not be investing but simply wasting money!

They did not say this in their DNJournal article ad.
They did not say this in their ENom site where I purchased these domains.
And if you read this forum, still today nobody know what the renewal cost will be: some say the same as the acquisition price, other 10 to 15% of it, others ...

Is this serious?

NO!

It look likes a BIG SCAM to try to sell as much premium is possible with FALSE ADVERTISING and ABUSING of the incredility of buyers.


How many having paid thousand dollars per domain will pay the renewal once they discovered the scam?

If like me you have been abused then contact imediately ENom and ask for full refund and inform other domainers about this scam.


...

 

[DomainBuyerBroker]

cybertonic,

You say

"The problem is they did not inform these domains will have an unusual high renewal rate over $50/domain."

and you say you never bought a .tv domain yet you started buying high price Premiums but didn't know about the annual renewal fee?

The price renewal might have been fumbled a bit but it sounds like buyer's remorse more than a "BIG SCAM".

I can assure that it's not a big scam, just launch pains. Granted, the issue should have been addressed before launch but you have verisign doing the pricing and enom doing the reselling and both are big companies so it would seem that this pricing issue was more an error in company or intercompany communication errors.

 

[cybertonic]

I contacted VeriSign and posted their response in NamePros.
They said that the pricing is NOT done by them but by the registrar ENOM!
And they invited me to contact ENOM to know about domain renewal pricing.

...

Buying remorse?

None of the buyers I purchased a great dot TV name these last 2 weeks told me about the renewal and I did not ask because I never imagine a registar was enough glouton to ask something more than $50 when he is selling the name itself for big dollars.

...

The first time I hear about a possible renewal rate over $50 was an hour about the premium dot TV be available for sale.
But I thought it was not real because the pricing was so absurd, I simply thought they was trying to convince me to not buy because maybe I will purchase the name they wanted, I was another competitor.

...

It's only after all this renewal rate buzz these days that I started to think that maybe these rumors about the crazy renewal rates was true.
This is why I contacted Verisign and yesterday I taken the decision to contact ENOM and ask full refund if the renewal rate is not normal.

These guys at NameMedia acted like scammers and I confirm again.
Why they did not inform buyers about these unusual renewal rates?

Is there someone from this company here?


...