discuss Domain Microfinance Program

[Rob Monster]

As some folks here know, I am a big fan of Digital Empowerment projects that scale.

Over the last year, I have seen lives transformed by people becoming successful domain investors on a bootstrap.

I have been discussing with a few folks about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs.

This could be a Digital Empowerment strategy for helping people to bootstrap domain portfolios. The idea was inspired by a discussion with a young Angolan.

The idea is this:

- People apply to get a microfinance grant. To get the grant, they have to verify their identity. This is done in order to prevent repeat applicants.

- Domains registered are limited to .com. With a budget of as little as $30, right now that is about 5 .com domains at a promo rate of just $5.49.

- The domains are powered by an SSL powered landing pages which domain owners can optimize and then use to sell or lease.

- Once the grant participants generate a certain level of sales or leases, e.g. $100, they can request an interest-free domain loan based on their portfolio.

 

[JB Lions]

Thank you for your comments, here and earlier in the thread, and you make many good points, @JB Lions

I may have caused confusion through my choice of the word mentor, which I did not mean at all in the training type use say in a trade. I rather meant it in the way it is used in graduate education, and to degree undergraduate and high school particularly for certain activities like say science or robotics.

My idea of mentorship was simply there would be a person that the new domain investor would be able to ask questions to on a one-one basis. I did not mean in the sense that the mentor would design a learning program, and I agree with you that is not reasonable. Rather I would see it as something like early on they might seek help as to where best to list domain names, or how to use NameBio to find comparators in a sophisticated way, or what to include in a lander description, etc.. Not as instruction, but say if they were stuck with something. At times it would just be encouragement, pointing out that it is normal to wait a long time between queries.

There is no doubt that mentorship does not always work. But it can.

Bob

All that goes to what I mentioned. We have people in this forum, from those countries that are making money. They have actual time, hustle, work ethic etc. Domaining is open to everybody. And if somebody needs help, they simply ask. Most people here are very helpful. It's all free. It's all already there for them, they have to show some actual go-getter type attitude, not some come and hold my hand type of deal. Those type of people will just fail in the end. This isn't for them.

I saw this type of stuff even in the affiliate marketing forums, where I started with. Somebody would come and ask for a mentor. Am I supposed to show this person how I make a coupon site, how I rank, other tips and tricks. I'm basically creating a competitor, there is only so much room on page 1 in the search engines. There is a line from helping somebody to doing yourself in, hurting your business.

An example with domaining. Sometimes I see these current trend or what's hot threads. Some are obvious like cannabis, so you're not really leaking anything. Some are things I've never heard of. Somebody found something that was hot and just posted it on a domaining forum. Congrats, you just created more competition for yourself. So the next day you might be bidding on a domain at Namejet, now you might notice some more people that weren't there before. Was that smart? I used to own the Kumquat domain market, until somebody started a thread on it, wiped me out. Thanks @NPer Now when I see a good Kumquat domain, it's overrun with domainers from Namepros, just bidding me up way too high. It's just not profitable for me anymore.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/showcase-and-discuss-kumquat-cumquat-quat-domains.800149/

Was just rereading that thread, page 1:

Ah, I just heard about this on the news the other day. It cured some small village in Switzerland of impotence and it now hailed as some Super Viagra. Companies are scrambling to get product to market, some kind of Nature Super Drug. I was trying to reg some names before all the domainers jumped all over it, threads like this don't help.

 

[tonyk2000]

I voted for the last - "you are going to lose your butt". Cannot say better -

Despite the good intentions, you're really inviting a disaster. At the end of the day the vast majority of people do not succeed at domaining

Moreover. In order to become a successful domainer, one needs to have enough knowledge in a number of specific areas. Such as - what is branding, how it works. What are trademarks. How are brands created. Some extra language skills (like basic written latin terms, as latin is the mother of many languages) are also necessary. Etc, etc, etc. If, for example, somebody joins domaining and is only capable to participate in open expired auctions on dropcatch or godaddy, where somebody else placed an initial bid - he will fail, earlier or later. Also, if a newbie domainer is only capable to handreg domains - he will fail, earlier or later.

A registrar/marketplace simply cannot, and should not, invest in grants or loans. Not its business. Unless it needs new customers so badly that it is ready to spend extra time, efforts and money on different unrelated things that may potentially bring new customers. Or to formally increase the number of active customers in its accounting records. Which I do not think to be the case with Epik registrar...

 

[frank-germany]

..about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs....

are you dissing older people???????
and first world people?????

-just kidding-

it's nonsense anyway

what do you think a "young entrepreneur"
can achieve with 5 handregs?

I mean in what time span?

 

[bmugford]

I think several of the commenters here have already highlighted many reasons why this is not going to work.

If someone is serious about the field they need to read and learn first. You can get a basic education for free with the resources out there.

As others have mentioned, most people in this field fail.
Buying (5) domains is not going to do much to change that.

There needs to be serious vetting, with larger budgets to have any chance.

Brad

 

[oldtimer]

Let people keep the money from their first sale, then half the proceeds from their second sale should be divided among the other participants in the program and the other half should be used to add some domains from the drops to the pool of 500 domains to replenish it, then the person can keep the money from their third sale and go on to alternate for each sale afterwards.

Another Option (Maybe better):

Each person keeps 1/3 of each sale they have made from the pool of 500 domains, another 1/3 from each sale is divided between all participants in the program and the last 1/3 is used to replenish the pool by buying from Epik domains (mainly from the drops and daily diamonds) and to pay for renewals for the domains that they want to be kept in the pool.

Also make the program self-sustaining so that the more experienced participates can help the new arrivals.

PS: The initial domains donated by Epik and members here should have at least six months before expiration, or better yet should be renewed before they are donated.

 

[JB Lions]

Another Option (Maybe better):

Each person keeps 1/3 of each sale they have made from the pool of 500 domains, another 1/3 from each sale is divided between all participants in the program and the last 1/3 is used to replenish the pool by buying from Epik domains (mainly from the drops and daily diamonds) and to pay for renewals for the domains that they want to be kept in the pool.

Also make the program self-sustaining so that the more experienced participates can help the new arrivals.

PS: The initial domains donated by Epik and members here should have at least six months before expiration, or better yet should be renewed before they are donated.

You're still not getting it, this would be a disaster. Still not a group activity, it doesn't work.

Anybody that would join such a group, would not be successful on their own, that's why they would join. So you have a bunch of people that don't know what they're doing, trying to make decisions. Anytime you get a group together, some are going to rise to the top, some to the bottom. Ask yourself, why would someone at the top be a part of this? When they can make their own money. The people at the bottom basically become parasites, it's a parasitic relationship. You had baseballworld start some group deal, he turned out to be a scammer - https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-investing-and-website-development-group.977386/

https://www.namepros.com/threads/reviews-of-baseballworlds-investing-and-development-group.1003582/

These type of things usually turn out to be a bunch of people hoping there is somebody that knows what they're doing and them trying to get a cut of that. You'll have disagreements, you'll have people leaving, you'll have people saying so and so is not pulling their weight etc.

 

[Rob Monster]

You're still not getting it, this would be a disaster. Still not a group activity, it doesn't work.

Anybody that would join such a group, would not be successful on their own, that's why they would join. So you have a bunch of people that don't know what they're doing, trying to make decisions. Anytime you get a group together, some are going to rise to the top, some to the bottom. Ask yourself, why would someone at the top be a part of this? When they can make their own money. The people at the bottom basically become parasites, it's a parasitic relationship. You had baseballworld start some group deal, he turned out to be a scammer - https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-investing-and-website-development-group.977386/

https://www.namepros.com/threads/reviews-of-baseballworlds-investing-and-development-group.1003582/

These type of things usually turn out to be a bunch of people hoping there is somebody that knows what they're doing and them trying to get a cut of that.

Thanks @JB Lions, the devil is in the details, and I appreciate that you are playing devil's advocate.

What kind of intake/screening questions would you use to root out the bottom-feeding parasites? The screening questionnaire could automate the process of separating the high potentials from the leeches.

To be clear, I am actually fine with the idea of giving a "Hand up" but not trying to just give a "Hand out"

So, the idea has to be to teach a man/woman to fish, not just to give them a fish, or worse, to give them money to buy spoiled fish.

 

[JB Lions]

Thanks @JB Lions, the devil is in the details, and I appreciate that you are playing devil's advocate.

What kind of intake/screening questions would you use to root out the bottom-feeding parasites? The screening questionnaire could automate the process of separating the high potentials from the leeches.

To be clear, I am actually fine with the idea of giving a "Hand up" but not trying to just give a "Hand out"

So, the idea has to be to teach a man/woman to fish, not just to give them a fish, or worse, to give them money to buy spoiled fish.

Have no idea how you would do that. I would just link them to the Beginner's Forum - https://www.namepros.com/forums/domain-beginners.25/

And tell them to get their read on. After reading, ask questions of the members here for things they don't understand. There are also some free ebooks on domaining floating around. Link to those.

I would be curious for the people you're talking about or people on this forum that have asked for a mentor, if you asked them this. How many hours have you spent reading that Beginners Forum/Namepros. If they said half hour, haven't read it yet, something along those lines, you can tell they don't have it.

You have to put in the work, you should be a self starter. When I first started getting into this, I read night after night. I had so many text documents where I took notes, I had spreadsheets where I listed every domain sale over $100,000 and then found corresponding sales of the same keyword in other extensions. After awhile I got a feel for what they should be selling for. I bought names, sold names, lost money etc. Study, ask questions, jump in.

 

[Kai W.]

It's important to clarify a premise: Investment or Production.
If the liquid of this industry is only between investors, then you will eventually fail, even if you do very well.
If the Domain can get a loan, first it needs to be productive, can really join the market, and second, the popularity of programming ability is very important.
So,I don't think it's appropriate to develop loans now. But I appreciate and understand what you're doing.

 

[Rob Monster]

I think several of the commenters here have already highlighted many reasons why this is not going to work.

If someone is serious about the field they need to read and learn first. You can get a basic education for free with the resources out there.

As others have mentioned, most people in this field fail.
Buying (5) domains is not going to do much to change that.

There needs to be serious vetting, with larger budgets to have any chance.

Brad

I try to listen to all my critics. And I am going to disagree with you.

Let me show you why.

Earlier today, the domain aarmus.com dropped. It is an available hand-reg right now for $5.49 at Epik. Anybody could register it -- no fancy dropcatching required.

Now, there is this site:

https://www.aarmus.in/

There used to be a company called Aarmus.com.

Another example is Tionli.com. There is this site:

http://mitionli.com/

They call themselves Mi Tionli, so Tionli.com is a URL shortener. This domain is available too from today's drop. I found these in less than a minute with @Gube's primitive screening tool:

https://dropelf.com

A potential registrant could buy these speculatively, or taste it with an Epik tasting account, or they could just contact the local registrant and see if they want to take a look at it.

Now, a guy like you or I might have no time for that scouting duty. On the other hand, someone else might have the time to find someone to buy or lease those domains.

Imagine a guy can buy a $5 domain and turn that into a $5/month lease stream or even just a $100 exit. Is that a crazy scenario for someone with a cell phone and an internet connection? I don't think so.

 

[Kai W.]

I have a bold assumption:If all 8 letter names are registered, we may have an opportunity. Just as all the houses in the world are built, people have to go to the aftermarket.

 

[Lox]

At the end of 1 year, if they did not generate sufficient sales and don't want to pay the renewal, the registered domains simply are lost and go to the expiry stream. As such, the participants have no continuing burden at all.

Show me the list of participants /domains and before year end I will personally chip in and sponsor renewal for some x amount of domains.

 

[oldtimer]

You wouldn't understanding in a Million years how hard people struggle just to earn a Dollar, only to live by it, and the cycle continues till age sets in. That 5 names as little as it seems, it's an opportunity to change destiny.

@JB Lions , I wouldn't call people who are caught in a desperate situation parasites if they are honest, smart, and productive people who just need a helping hand to change their destiny.

Rob is in a position that he can set the rules for this program, and once the initial domains are donated it can be designed to be self-sustaining , even those who might not make it as domainers can be helped by the ones who are more talented as a condition to take part in the program, if Rob can help them to become successful, they in return can give a helping hand to lift their friends out of a desperate situation. IMO

 

[offthehandle]

2 years old, incomplete MITIONLI.com, archive shows incomplete website redirected in 2018. 2 useless backlinks.
front page: "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Proin tristique in tortor et dignissim. Quisque non tempor leo. Maecenas egestas sem elit"

aarmus.com- there is a reason the HD dropped it. Not only that, an Iranian shipping service in the distant past. 1 existing backlink to chinese 190.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030612191245/http://aarmus.com/

 

[Brands.International]

I think several of the commenters here have already highlighted many reasons why this is not going to work.

If someone is serious about the field they need to read and learn first. You can get a basic education for free with the resources out there.

As others have mentioned, most people in this field fail.
Buying (5) domains is not going to do much to change that.

There needs to be serious vetting, with larger budgets to have any chance.

Brad

I totally agree with this.

Plus, if you want to really succeed in domaining, you need to be clever and spend lot of time on it, put lot of effort in. This means you need to be able to read, process information correctly, experiment a lot, work efficiently, socialize, learn on your own errors (many errors), and mostly to use your own brain independently, so you are able to recognise what is false narrative (aka bullshit) and what is not - extremely important in domaining, where everyone is following their open or hidden interests and lot of the information provided is not factual, or is just half-true.

It does not really matter whether you are from Switzerland or from emerging country or from country where unemployment level is high - if you have that what I wrote above, you will in time overcame all obstacles. This is not 30 USD question, this is a question of intelligence of a person and effort in parallel.

No "mentor", support, domain courses, or 30 USD can substitute that. Imo

 

[Rob Monster]

I totally agree with this.

Plus, if you want to really succeed in domaining, you need to be clever and spend lot of time on it, put lot of effort in. This means you need to be able to read, process information correctly, experiment a lot, work efficiently, socialize, learn on your own errors (many errors), and mostly to use your own brain independently, so you are able to recognise what is false narrative (aka bullsh*t) and what is not - extremely important in domaining, where everyone is following their open or hidden interests and lot of the information provided is not factual, or is just half-true.

It does not really matter whether you are from Switzerland or from emerging country or from country where unemployment level is high - if you have that what I wrote above, you will in time overcame all obstacles. This is not 30 USD question, this is a question of intelligence of a person and effort in parallel.

No "mentor", support, domain courses, or 30 USD can substitute that. Imo

I appreciate the point around vetting and teaching. I also think these special grant-funded accounts can be designed to perhaps prevent people from buying crap. That topic needs more thought but the premise of vetting and teaching as being critical is 100% valid and duly noted.

Also, the action has to be directed at selling primarily to end-users. My thesis is that an Indonesian is going to have an easier time convincing a local business owner to buy or lease that .COM that they should own in the first place than some non-Indonesian. That local conversation is part of the larger empowerment thesis.

 

[oldtimer]

this is a question of intelligence of a person and effort in parallel.

And what makes you think that some of those people are not as smart as everyone else here.

In some places people are just deprived of all opportunities and are stuck in a never ending cycle and just need to be given a chance to get themselves out of poverty.

I just can't understand why some of the members here who are themselves very well off want to prevent others from receiving any help.

 

[Rob Monster]

By the way, this is what happens:

kenttreeservice.com

A guy from Nigeria buys this domain for $5.49 and now sets it to flip for $249.

Personally I would set it to Make Offer and see what comes through the door, but he is content to flip it cheap. I would add some staging graphics with tree-trimming.

Anyway, I will bet $100 that this domain is sold within a year to an end-user. For the Nigerian registrant, it is fine ROI and a way to bootstrap a portfolio. I think that is awesome.

 

[Rob Monster]

And what makes you think that some of those people are not as smart as everyone else here.

In some places people are just deprived of all opportunities and are stuck in a never ending cycle and just need to be given a chance to get themselves out of poverty.

I just can't understand why some of the members here who are themselves very well off want to prevent others from receiving any help.

@oldtimer is right. Set aside your biases. A lot of these folks are smart, articulate and willing to hustle. Often they are operating in an environment that is not helping them. We could debate the reason. Go visit Gran Canaria and enjoy Las Palmas or venture out. It is a wonderful place. It is dirt cheap. The youth employment there is 40-60% depending on who you ask. Many of these kids are smart, and are not all lazy.

@franka46

 

[JB Lions]

And what makes you think that some of those people are not as smart as everyone else here.

In some places people are just deprived of all opportunities and are stuck in a never ending cycle and just need to be given a chance to get themselves out of poverty.

I just can't understand why some of the members here who are themselves very well off want to prevent others from receiving any help.

It's because you're not reading/paying attention.

This isn't a group thing. This isn't a group thing. This isn't a group thing.............

As far as being smart and all that. Some people in this world are just going to be better than other people at some things. I have issues with heights, I will never be a trapeze artist. Some people are just going to be better at domaining. For those that get it, they would be doing it on their own.

Again, they wouldn't be involved in this type of group. And pick a number, 10, 50, 500, whatever. Some will rise to the top, that's how it goes. There will be people that will just be there, doing not much of anything, hoping to feast off those that do. That's the definition of parasite.

As far as poverty, this isn't the thing to get into. High failure rate. Some will never get an offer. It might take years. Stuff we've already gone over to death in this thread. Those in this group that are doing well, will go out on their own. Then group falls apart.

@oldtimer is right. Set aside your biases. A lot of these folks are smart, articulate and willing to hustle. Often they are operating in an environment that is not helping them. We could debate the reason. Go visit Gran Canaria and enjoy Las Palmas or venture out. It is a wonderful place. It is dirt cheap. The youth employment there is 40-60% depending on who you ask. Many of these kids are smart, and are not all lazy.

@franka46

As what was mentioned already. We have people in this forum from those areas putting in work and making money.

If somebody is literally broke/in poverty, you don't go investing money you don't really have into something with a high failure rate, where most of the names sold are not in your native language.