The LLL.com sales report & discussion thread

[italiandragon]

We need this one too guys

This guide will also help LLLL.com holders to understand more the value of their 4 letters .com based on how expensive the similar 3 letters .com are.

From:

http://3character.com/priceguide.html

Pricing Guide for 3-Letter (Composed Of Letters Only) Domains:

Current Observed Minimum Wholesale Price (regardless of letter combo) as of February 1, 2008:

3-Letter .com - $6700 (+ $300 since January 1, 2008 report)

But I consider their guide a bit old since they are not taking in consideration the emergenging countries that appreciate other letters and as we have run a poll here several times lately, the majority of people consider the letters U
and W to be Premium letters.

Let`s have a look at some recent LLL.com sales as reported from NameBio.com :


nak.com $27,135 2007-12-22 SEDO.com
nyz.com $10,605 2007-12-19 tdnam
utw.com $10,100 2007-12-10 SEDO.com
via.com $157,500 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
cgf.com $14,500 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
vkx.com $6,200 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
mje.com $10,734 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
okf.com $8,500 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
our.com $60,000 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
kxr.com $7,101 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
lhg.com $13,613 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
wae.com $10,099 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
hya.com $7,499 2007-12-06 SEDO.com
yrd.com $9,100 2007-12-05 SEDO.com
vfk.com $15,750 2007-11-29 AfterNic.com
qee.com $10,882 2007-11-27 SEDO.com

 

[bmugford]

I bought several names in the $30-$35 range during the peak. One sold for $11 during the peak on eBay according to TDVR.com, so that is that is the "minimum" sale at the peak according to your logic.

The minimum was widely seen by people as around $60 at at the peak for LLLL.com. Reece's guide which was the most followed reported a $55 minimum in February.

 

[ecalc]

The term "minimum wholesale" refers to the average sale price. There can only be one average, just as there is only one min wholesale for a category of domains. I've never heard of the term maximum wholesale.

Agreed, maximum wholesale is a weird phrase but a valid concept. For the purpose of discussion, forget product name (domains), product quality (high or low) and pricing labels (wholesale or retail.) For any set of numbers we can determine the min, max, mean, median, average, etc. It has been suggested that the domain industry should use the words minimum and average interchangeably when discussing wholesale prices. If we go down that logic path we can argue similarly that maximum equals average, and QED, maximum equals minimum. Responsible price guide publishers reject such crazy talk in favor of conventional standards to report minimum wholesale, e.g. expressions of frequency distribution such as 5th percentile.

minimum: the least of a set of numbers
maximum: the largest of a set of numbers
average: the quotient obtained by dividing the sum total of a set of figures by the number of figures

 

[snoop]

The term "minimum wholesale" refers to the average sale price. There can only be one average, just as there is only one min wholesale for a category of domains. I've never heard of the term maximum wholesale.


Completely agree. That's a contest I won't try to win, it'd be an exercise in futility. I can't tell you how many high-rollers I've talked to that have specifically mentioned Snoop and asked me what he's doing trying to drive LLL prices down. I kid you not.

Basically I'm am injecting some realistic commentry into the debate, unlike some people who present biased views to increase the value of their own holdings, I simply call things as I see it.

If I think something is ovepriced, I say it and I sell. I'm not one of those people who tries to pump up prices whilst at the same time selling names for lower prices than they claim the minimum is.

 

[bmugford]

No Michael, you don't get it. It is mix and match. A little from Column A and a little from Column B. Mix them together and then what you get is a BS argument comparing the average sales on one side vs the lowest on the other.

So now minimum wholesale is not the lowest observed sale? You need to get your story straight.

 

[snoop]

One sold for $11 during the peak on eBay according to TDVR.com, so that is that is the "minimum" sale at the peak according to your logic.

It has been discussed to death in the LLLL.com thread, but when one name sells for 20% (ie 80% lower) of the next lowest price on ebay, that sale is an outlier.

 

[Michael]

Basically I'm am injecting some realistic commentry into the debate, unlike some people who present biased views to increase the value of their own holdings, I simply call things as I see it.

If I think something is ovepriced, I say it and I sell. I'm not one of those people who tries to pump up prices whilst at the same time selling names for lower prices than they claim the minimum is.

You're not injecting realistic commentary, you're injecting pessimistic commentary that is not based on actual data and thus is biased by your agenda. Anyone who is providing valid data and/or arguments to back up their statements is not biased.

Agreed, maximum wholesale is a weird phrase but a valid concept. For the purpose of discussion, forget product name (domains), product quality (high or low) and pricing labels (wholesale or retail.) For any set of numbers we can determine the min, max, mean, median, average, etc. It has been suggested that the domain industry should use the words minimum and average interchangeably when discussing wholesale prices. If we go down that logic path we can argue similarly that maximum equals average, and QED, maximum equals minimum. Responsible price guide publishers reject such crazy talk in favor of conventional standards to report minimum wholesale, e.g. expressions of frequency distribution such as 5th percentile.

minimum: the least of a set of numbers
maximum: the largest of a set of numbers
average: the quotient obtained by dividing the sum total of a set of figures by the number of figures

Makes sense. Was just saying the term minimum wholesale does not actually mean the lowest observed sale... I think just about everyone agrees to that except for Snoop.

 

[snoop]

So now minimum wholesale is not the lowest observed sale? You need to get your story straight.

No idea what you are talking about.

Some people think the peak was $55, some $60, (and one person thinks it was $11 :hehe that is life, it doesn't matter that much either way.

 

[-REECE-]

Honestly, since 3Character has become a joke, who's up for collaborating on a real LLL.com price guide?

5th percentile is always what I've considered the minimum to be myself -- it does a very good job of removing outliers. I haven't crunched the numbers myself, however looking at how many sales we've seen lately in the 4500-5000 range, there's not a doubt in my mind the 5th percentile is below 5000.

 

[Michael]

No idea what you are talking about.

Some people think the peak was $55, some $60, (and one person thinks it was $11 :hehe that is life, it doesn't matter that much either way.

Are you intentionally missing the point now? You said min wholesale was $55 or $60 but there were sales below that. However, before you said min wholesale is the lowest observed sale. You contradict yourself with every post.

No Michael, you don't get it. It is mix and match. A little from Column A and a little from Column B. Mix them together and then what you get is a BS argument comparing the average sales on one side vs the lowest on the other.

Lmao, thanks for the clarification :tu:

Honestly, since 3Character has become a joke, who's up for collaborating on a real LLL.com price guide?

5th percentile is always what I've considered the minimum to be myself -- it does a very good job of removing outliers. I haven't crunched the numbers myself, however looking at how many sales we've seen lately in the 4500-5000 range, there's not a doubt in my mind the 5th percentile is below 5000.

I think that'd be a great idea. I agree the 3Character.com has been overstating minimum wholesale for a while now. You and ecalc seem to know a lot about this, I think you guys should come up with something.

 

[snoop]

Anyone who is providing valid data and/or arguments to back up their statements is not biased.

And lets me guess, that you see yourself as that person injecting "unbiased", "valid" data whilst discounting all the low sales and selling off names for lower than what your "trumped up" minimum is....sure.

 

[Michael]

And lets me guess, that you see yourself as that person injecting "unbiased", "valid" data whilst discounting all the low sales and selling off names for lower than what your "trumped up" minimum is....sure.

How can facts be biased? I'm going to ignore you from now on, you're not saying anything new and nothing you say makes any sense. Let's move on to something constructive as Reece suggested.

 

[snoop]

Are you intentionally missing the point now? You said min wholesale was $55 or $60 but there were sales below that. However, before you said min wholesale is the lowest observed sale. You contradict yourself with every post.

Nope, as I have said several times, the occasional outlier needs to be removed like the $11 ebay sale. It is just that your version of "outliers" seem to include all the sales below what you'd like the minimum to be.

How can facts be biased? I'm going to ignore you from now on, you're not saying anything new and nothing you say makes any sense. Let's move on to something constructive as Reece suggested.

Because you remove all the sales you don't like! ie the low ones, and then you talk about averages as though that is what "minimum" means.

 

[Michael]

Nope, as I have said several times, the occasional outlier needs to be removed like the $11 ebay sale. It is just that your version of "outliers" seem to include all the sales below what you'd like the minimum to be.



Because you remove all the sales you don't like! ie the low ones, and then you talk about averages as though that is what "minimum" means.

Your version of outliers is everything that wasn't on Sedo auction, and everything above the lowest sale. You've said 100 times that minimum wholesale is the lowest sale. How do you throw out outliers if you're only keeping one piece of data? How do you determine which one to keep? Just give up man, you have no idea what you're talking about and it is clear to everyone you've got an agenda.

You even quoted a min wholesale for September that was lower than any recorded sale. How does that make sense? Clearly you're full of BS.

 

[snoop]

How do you throw out outliers if you're only keeping one piece of data? How do you determine which one to keep?

The ones that are obviously out of kilter with the rest of the market should be removed, like the single llll.com sale for $11 when everything else went for $50+.

I'm going to ignore you from now on

That didn't last long.

 

[Michael]

The ones that are obviously out of kilter with the rest of the market should be removed, like the single llll.com sale for $11 when everything else went for $50+.



That didn't last long.

Sorry, it's just hard for me to ignore someone who in the last few pages have contradicted themselves more times than I can count. You flip-flop and make up stuff more than anyone I've ever seen, have you ever considered running for public office?

I'll bring it up again: how do you come up with a min wholesale price for September that was lower than any recorded sale during that month? There's no explanation for that.

 

[snoop]

I'll bring it up again: how do you come up with a min wholesale price for September that was lower than any recorded sale during that month? There's no explanation for that.

I claimed the minimum was $5000 which you strongly denied even though you'd sold two names yourself at that price. I still find it bizarre you are claiming the minimum is more than the price you were selling at yourself.

 

[Michael]

I claimed the minimum was $5000 which you strongly denied even though you'd sold two names yourself at that price. I still find it bizarre you are claiming the minimum is more than the price you were selling at yourself.

Bulk discount, I sold a pair to the same buyer for $10k. Plus I fit in the category of a "distressed seller" because I needed the money. I think we've already gone over this... you must be experiencing short term memory loss (or selective memory). If i sold them individually I definitely would have gotten more.

 

[snoop]

Bulk discount, I sold a pair to the same buyer for $10k. Plus I fit in the category of a "distressed seller" because I needed the money. I think we've already gone over this... you must be experiencing short term memory loss (or selective memory).

Selling two names wouldn't justify a reduced price, and low quality lll.com's are about the most liquid names on the market. Plus the price you got was within about $100 of other lll.com's sales at that time.

eg

fvz.com $5100
wzu.com $5200
eqw.com $5211
znj.com $5,299

All previous sales in Sept. 3 out of 4 of those names which had a premium letter unlike yours, zxw.com and vwx.com.

I don't think there is any such thing as a distressed seller for liquid names like that either, they can be easily sold with 24 hours for market price.

 

[Nem0]

See the plural on "prices"????????? They do NOT say "It is important to note that the minimum price shown in this guide reflects the single lowest sale for the lower quality character combinations of each type."

Got it?

No way he will ever get it.

Leave the analysis to the people who understand what they are doing. We'll call on you whenever we want to know what the lowest sale was in a given month.

OMGosh, i think I cracked a rib :yell:

So now minimum wholesale is not the lowest observed sale? You need to get your story straight.

Exactly. He always does this. Contradictions galore. Will never admit when he is or may be a little off about something. It's really sad.


Some excellent posts, Michael -- each one of your counters the last few pages were dead-on.

 

[Michael]

Regardless of your opinion on whether it justified a reduced price, I was willing to accept less if someone bought both. Anti-premiums are probably the least liquid LLL category, if you look at the old threads you'll see no action. Anyway, you picked the lowest sale to determine min wholesale, which we've already established isn't the correct way to do it. Plus, it wasn't on Sedo auction, so according to you it shouldn't be used to determine market value. But hey, all that hurts your argument, so I guess we should ignore it, right?


Thanks for your support Nem0.

 

[CHILLY]

Here is a challenge. 10NP$ to anyone who finds a positive post from Snoop on anything. Good luck.
Brad

Slight interruption, Here's One,

http://www.namepros.com/mobi-marketplace/489046-forum-mobi-on-sedo-auction.html

 

[snoop]

Anyway, you picked the lowest sale to determine min wholesale, which we've already established isn't the correct way to do it.

You should use the word "I've" rather than "we've" as I think the number of people who would agree with your "average=minimum" theory is limited to you and maybe some pumpers.

 

[bmugford]

Congrats Chilly, you found the needle in the haystack. I sent you 10 NP$ for the exhausting amount of time you must have spent researching this

It is rather amusing it took a post from back on 7/8/2008 to actually find a positive post from Snoop. I think that tells the whole story.

Slight interruption, Here's One,

http://www.namepros.com/mobi-marketplace/489046-forum-mobi-on-sedo-auction.html

 

[Semtex]

Wow, and I thought the LLLL thread was hot. This is like watching a soap opera unfold.

I also believe in the average data and not the "one name," minimum data.

 

[Michael]

You should use the word "I've" rather than "we've" as I think the number of people who would agree with your "average=minimum" theory is limited to you and maybe some pumpers.

Me, everyone who publishes min wholesale reports, and probably 95% of the people on the forum know that min wholesale does not mean the lowest recorded sale. I've already said different publishers probably vary in how they calculate it, Reece said he favors the 5th percentile method, but the fact remains... min wholesale != lowest sale. How many people have chimed in agreeing with your stance? I count 0 so far.