All domains are useless so there should be no appraisal for domains

[silveraden]

Show me a valuable domain and let's discuss....

There should be no appraisal for domains... only websites worth the appraisal...

 

[DU]

Seems like good topics are getting hard to come by.

You could join in the "What we will miss about Iowadawg" thread. That's a lot of fun.

 

[firefly]

Show me a valuable domain and let's discuss....

There should be no appraisal for domains... only websites worth the appraisal...

You are a genius and a domainer that actually gets it. The domain isn't valuable by itself although it may represent value to someone.

That's like saying that land isn't worth anything unless it has a house built on it...

This whole analogy of land and domains is faulty to the nth degree. It's quite astounding that domainers still cling to this to justify the whole process to themselves, even though it is clearly fictitious. You can't own a domain, you can only rent it out on an annual basis. The fact that you can eventually own land puts it in a completely different league to domains full stop.

But a good domain, it's valuable all by itself... Your sites are examples of lame domains...

Not really, and your argument is more ad hominem than logic. You even stated that the value can come from the information on the domain - it could come from any domain, not just yours.

I just provided you a valuable domain tell me why that name sold for 23000 haustechnik.com 23000 today

Because someone put a value on it; decided what it was worth to them personally, or based on a business decision. Before that it was worthless. If you don't follow, try to keep up.

You came to a domain forum to make claims without backup. Why are domains worthless? What's your proof then? I make a living buying/selling domains...

You do much the same simply because you don't understand what you are doing. You are not buying or selling a domain - you are simply buying or selling the right to rent the domain. All value comes from those who buy them, not from anything inherent to any particular name you buy or sell. Up until someone decides that the name is worth something to them it is indeed, worthless. While we are at it I will go back to you land analogy. Your goal with land is ownership. You can never really 'own' a domain, simply rent it out long term. Congratulations btw for making a living by selling and buying the right to rent a domain.

You are just mad because you instantly lost. Hate the game not the player...

Once again, an ad hominem argument which is highly ironic when you clearly don't understand what you do for a living.

You do gamble. You have invested in sites and domains without any guarantee you will recover your original investment or make a profit. That's gambling my friend.

So do you and you seem blissfully unaware of it. Buying the right to rent a domain in the hope that it may make some money sounds very much like gambling to me, regardless of what value you have put on it.

This is what you need to do to prove your point.

He doesn't have to prove anything. He made the opening qualifying statement and the burden of prove now lays with all the responders, who, to this point, have done a God awful job of doing so. All I see are ad hominem attacks and pure fallacies.

dfwuj5te8deqw9r43jnfgd989t4gfrt43fse.info

and make a very popular site of it.
Then sell it at least for $xx,xxx.

Pintrest, facebook, google, the onion, et al. What do they have in common? I'll tell you. They had no inherent value until someone built something of worth on them. Therefore, your argument is invalid. Strange that domainers pose a question to which the answer is obvious and yet, have the hide to tell other people that they should think before they speak. Wikipedia is a prime example of a site that regularly outranks exact match domains simply because the value of the information that is present. It could have been called blue moon goat cheese and would still be as valuable as it today because of the information it holds; and outranking sites that deal more directly particular topics. The domain isn't valuable but what has been put on there is.

Until a buyer comes along either willing to pay the seller price, or come to an agreement with the seller, domains and sites can be said to be at a point in time as worth nothing.

I could kiss you dawg. You obviously get it.

is to make a complete non-sense ridiculous statement thread and see 10's of us to reply to it trying to convince the OP that the Earth is round!

Funny... I thought that most of the ridiculous nonsense has come from the people replying to him. Don't try to convince him of something you clearly can't prove is true. That just makes you look silly.

best post in this thread imo. The intrinsic value of any domain is 0, demand from other people is the only way a domain has value.

Another person I would like to kiss. I had almost given up hope of any intelligence in this thread until you and the dawg turned up.

Domains are not useless. Because you need a domain to resolve your website IP address, so people can easily find you.

Go to purple.com and tell me if that is useful!? Once again the domain name itself is not the thing of usefulness, but what is at that address. So you put value on a name that resolves to nothing useful? The domain could be anything and offer value, but once again the domain isn't useful, what is on it is. Since you guys like ridiculous real world analogies lets say you look up the name of a doctors surgery because you are feeling ill and you get there and it is entirely something different. Is the address valuable then?

Unfortunately, domain names in specific extensions are just one, and only one, in this planet. Once you got it, no one else can own a copy of it.

Yes they can - when you no longer feel like renting it. YOU DON"T OWN IT!!!!

So if more than one 1 person wants to own exactly the same domain name, then it begins to have COMMERCIAL VALUE. Because you can SELL that domain to the other guy who needs it.

Only of they are locked into the ridiculous domainer mentality. Anyone smart would hand reg a domain that has something to do with what they want to do and build something of use on that and outrank the domainer in no time.

For many people who own GARBAGE domains, you can PROJECT the image that your domain is valuable

What you think is garbage is tinted by your own opinion and the way you value something that has zero value. Once again - what you consider a garbage domain can be made into something that has value to someone. Dear lord, the thinking here is backward.

I can't bothered wasting more time replying to this thread. Whether the OP was serious or not, he was correct in his opening statement. The fact that most of you trot out the same arguments ad nauseum highlights how far domainer's thinking hasn't progressed.

Sheesh!!!

 

[mwzd]

Firefly, you're wrong.

Put purple.com on the market, if no one bids on it, then it 'has no value'.

Otoh, I'm sure it will close in the low 5 figures at the very least.

There are 300 million domains registered, around $3 billion in ANNUAL reg fees, over $500 million in aftermarket sales (that are reported) and these are just domains, not websites.

And as for "it's not property, it's a lease" - might surprise you to learn a lot of commercial real estate is still on lease from local governments, doesn't affect the value of that land.

 

[firefly]

Put purple.com on the market, if no one bids on it, then it 'has no value'.

Thank you for proving my point Samit. Until someone gives it what they think it is worth, it has no value. You can't even argue against that since you made my point for me.

Otoh, I'm sure it will close in the low 5 figures at the very least.

That's your value on it.

And as for "it's not property, it's a lease" - might surprise you to learn a lot of commercial real estate is still on lease from local governments, doesn't affect the value of that land.

Doesn't surprise me at all since someone (in this case the government) owns it. No one owns domains - not even the registrars.

 

[ibidu]

@firefly

I don't have the time or the patience to highlight your lengthy posts here. Just to say a lot of the statements that you make are totally untrue and you seem to say them with such authority that could mislead a lot of newbies reading this forum - I hope for their sake they won't take this stuff as gospel

 

[JB Lions]

@firefly

I don't have the time or the patience to highlight your lengthy posts here. Just to say a lot of the statements that you make are totally untrue and you seem to say them with such authority that could mislead a lot of newbies reading this forum - I hope for their sake they won't take this stuff as gospel

Exactly. There is so much nonsense in his post, I wish he didn't have me on ignore so I could help him out

 

[mwzd]

Thank you for proving my point Samit. Until someone gives it what they think it is worth, it has no value.

They gave away land in the US initially, does that mean land 'has no intrinsic value'?

That's like saying in the supermarket only the things people buy have value, the ones that just lie on the shelf 'have no value'.

Sorry but in the real world things don't work like that.

 

[firefly]

Just to say a lot of the statements that you make are totally untrue and you seem to say them with such authority that could mislead a lot of newbies reading this forum - I hope for their sake they won't take this stuff as gospel

What's untrue? Can you own a domain outright like property?

Does anything have any value until someone attaches a value to it according to what what their needs are.

Do you guys know why anything you buy is the price it is?

Oh dear lord... things just magically get value. No wonder marketers can sell to sheep.

---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

They gave away land in the US initially, does that mean land 'has no intrinsic value'?
Please do some research and work out why they did this instead of throwing rubbish out there.
That's like saying in the supermarket only the things people buy have value, the ones that just lie on the shelf 'have no value'.
Funnily enough yes. What happens to a company that can't sell it's goods? Is that the best you have - honestly?
Sorry but in the real world things don't work like that.
Funnily enough, using your example from above, that is exactly how the world works.

Are you trying to argue for me?

 

[JB Lions]

Put purple.com on the market, if no one bids on it, then it 'has no value'

Have to disagree with you on that one, simply because the market has shown there is demand for generic .coms. If there is demand for something, it has value. Pretty simple concept. If you put that up for auction, and start it at above "no value" 0, it will get bids. So it has value, what that value is will be determined. Anybody here actually think purple.com is worth $0?

firefly's whole domains aren't valuable by themselves, is silly.

 

[firefly]

Took you off ignore ages ago... lol.

firefly's whole domains aren't valuable by themselves, is silly.

Enlighten me in a logical, factual, and non emotional way, that domains have value other than the value attached to them by those who buy, or wish to buy them (this in itself indicates in itself that before this point, domains have no intrinsic value) . This could be interesting.

 

[Sabre]

Enlighten me in a logical, factual, and non emotional way, that domains have value other than the value attached to them by those who buy, or wish to buy them (this in itself indicates in itself that before this point, domains have no intrinsic value) . This could be interesting.

I think his point is that if we took that approach to things, nothing would have value. Nothing technically has 'value' until it has a value assigned to it e.g. a supermarket saying that a melon costs $x - that is then the value of the melon.

I might build a house - but technically it has no 'value' at this point. I then sell the house and it suddenly has 'value'.

This is flawed because the house has value as soon as it begins to be built. It cost money to build the house, so it has value right there. The value may be lower than the cost of the materials, but it still has value. Obviously other factors come into play; location, quality, size etc.

All domains have 'value' - the value for most domains is the reg fee (or less) you paid for the domain. To exist, a domain must have value because someone deemed it worthwhile to register that domain. If the domain then expires, it returns to having no value. If it is sold on, it's value then changes.

In conclusion, I don't think I've ever written the word 'value' so many times in a single post.

:wave:

 

[alien51]

Go to purple.com and tell me if that is useful!? Once again the domain name itself is not the thing of usefulness, but what is at that address. So you put value on a name that resolves to nothing useful? The domain could be anything and offer value, but once again the domain isn't useful, what is on it is.

You seem to be confused by the difference between a DOMAIN NAME and a WEBSITE.

I highlighted above in your comment, in which you generously used the English word "useful" several times.

You have to understand, that the DOMAIN NAME system was invented to match Internet Protocol addresses into unique alphanumeric characters that HUMAN BEINGS can easily REMEMBER.

Most humans cannot remember IP addresses. That's what makes Domain Names = "useful".

The more a Domain Name can be REMEMBERED, the more people would WANT to use that domain name.

So even though a Domain Name points to a website that does not contain any CONTENT, it can already be USEFUL and VALUABLE by the mere fact that the Domain Name is easier to remember than its corresponding IP address.

If i want to search for PORN, the domain name SEX.COM is very easy to remember. It is certainly much easier to remember than HotGirlsLatinaInFlorida69.BIZ. And dear dark lord, it is certainly much, much easier to remember than http://173.199.146.40.

The fact that Domain Names help you remember things, that alone makes Domain Names USEFUL and VALUABLE..... even without content.

You argument seems to revolve around the notion that QUALITY CONTENT determines whether a Domain Name is valuable/useful or not.

This kind of argument, is a CONSUMER-ORIENTED argument. So your logic means, if SEX.COM is just a parking page, then the domain is USELESS and VALUELESS to perverts everywhere. Again, that's a CONSUMER-based argument.

A Domainer argument, revolves around the notion on whether (1) a Domain Name is easy to remember or not; (2) it is brandable/catchy name, which can be utilized for product branding purposes.

You also argued that Domain Names are USELESS, unless they get used to publish something useful. BUT OF COURSE! Your brand of logic would also argue that MONEY is useless, unless YOU SPEND IT!

 

[firefly]

I really like your post Sabre.

I think his point is that if we took that approach to things, nothing would have value. Nothing technically has 'value' until it has a value assigned to it e.g. a supermarket saying that a melon costs $x - that is then the value of the melon.

That is the value put on it by the seller. If they don't sell well the values lowers in the hope of them selling. If they don't sell at all, they lose all value and the guy who sold them to the supermarket will be looking at some serious problems and the supermarket is looking at a loss of profit.

All domains have 'value' - the value for most domains is the reg fee (or less) you paid for the domain.

In other words, they have very little to no value since their is little chance that anyone will add a value to them. In this case, I would argue that domains clearly have no value, and I will explain why.

To exist, a domain must have value because someone deemed it worthwhile to register that domain.

For some, this value is simply a delusion, where they think they may have snagged the next big sale. It is a false sense of value in regards to a particular given name. If the domain expires and is not renewed what does that suggest - it had no value in the first place.

To say that a domain has real value just because someone thinks it is worth picking up in the hopes that it may make them some money, or a sale is no better than betting on black at the casino. Regardless of research, we still buy clunkers, unless you are some sort of demigod.

All the names I buy are exact match emd's in dot net and com these days, and are heavily researched utilizing numerous tools. That doesn't mean I think they have any value as is, but rather, depending on what I do with them, have the potential to be of value to me. I see potential value - most just assume value.

Nice post Sabre. It's nice to engage with someone like an adult.

In conclusion, I don't think I've ever written the word 'value' so many times in a single post.

I literally lol'd :D

 

[dompro]

Pintrest, facebook, google, the onion, et al. What do they have in common? I'll tell you. They had no inherent value until someone built something of worth on them. Therefore, your argument is invalid. Strange that domainers pose a question to which the answer is obvious and yet, have the hide to tell other people that they should think before they speak. Wikipedia is a prime example of a site that regularly outranks exact match domains simply because the value of the information that is present.

1) Pintrest, facebook, google, wikipedia were all reasonably short and memorable names before they were developed and promoted into what they are.

2) del.icio.us is still a crappy name (and that's probably why they ended up buying delicious.com)

3) it will takes some extra SEO effort to promote meaningless name

4) it is stupid to invest $$$$$ in development, marketing, and SEO but base your site on a crappy name


If you think otherwise, just accept and do my
dfwuj5te8deqw9r43jnfgd989t4gfrt43fse.info challenge.

 

[silveraden]

Proof it.
Claim without proof is nothing

Who are you to ask my privacy? heck, even a lawyer can't ask me what I have...

 

[firefly]

You seem to be confused by the difference between a DOMAIN NAME and a WEBSITE.

Please don't start a debating with a straw man argument (look it up if you have to). One thing is certainly clear; you need to bold nearly everything in your posts to make it seem important. Good for you. For what it's worth I well know the difference.

I highlighted above in your comment, in which you generously used the English word "useful" several times.

Do I need to highlight the incessant bolding again that you use to make it seem like you come from a position of authority? Lets stop with the poor discussion form.

Most humans cannot remember IP addresses.

Most people can't even remember phone numbers. That's probably why most phones let you store your numbers now, much in the same way that all browsers use a bookmarking feature.

The more a Domain Name can be REMEMBERED, the more people would WANT to use that domain name.

No, you have this backward. The more that a person can use and utilize a site makes them come back to them. Once again, you don't have to remember a name that you like anymore - you simply bookmark it, usually based on what it gives you, not the name.

So even though a Domain Name points to a website that does not contain any CONTENT, it can already be USEFUL and VALUABLE by the mere fact that the Domain Name is easier to remember than its corresponding IP address.

So you frequently go to sites that have nothing on them because of the name? Is that what you are trying to tell me? Where is the value in that? Oh, btw, this was an example that someone threw out there earlier: dfwuj5te8deqw9r43jnfgd989t4gfrt43fse.info. I think I can remember that. :D

If i want to search for PORN, the domain name SEX.COM is very easy to remember.

Are you really that out of the loop that you think people type sex.com into the URL bar. No, they use the term sex in a search engine, so lets see what that returns shall we?
https://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sa...pw.r_qf.&fp=7111783c0f23c04b&biw=1280&bih=835

I don't see sex dot com there anywhere. Lets try sex videos:

https://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sa...pw.r_qf.&fp=7111783c0f23c04b&biw=1280&bih=835

Funnily enough, none of the top ten results in the search engine contain the words sex video's in the url - go figure?

And dear dark lord, it is certainly much, much easier to remember than http://173.199.146.40.

And bookmarking sites I like makes it even easier. Every browser comes with the ability to do so.

The fact that Domain Names help you remember things, that alone makes Domain Names USEFUL and VALUABLE..... even without content.

And how do these people come to a website on the whole? Not by typing it into the URL bar. It's a thing called a search engine, and as you can see, the actual domain name has very little to do with what is actually shown in the results most of the time. Please build a better argument.

This kind of argument, is a CONSUMER-ORIENTED argument.

What other way would you look at it? If you want to make money off a site you have to take into consideration the consumer. If you want to sell it, you are again, looking for a consumer. Even parking, people look for the best templates to appeal to the consumer whether they be a surfer or potential buyer. Is this a serious argument of yours?

A Domainer argument, revolves around the notion on whether (1) a Domain Name is easy to remember or not; (2) it is brandable/catchy name, which can be utilized for product branding purposes.

Catchy or not doesn't matter in the search engines, which is what most people use. Also the names you buy have no value until a consumer, domainer or otherwise (end user), comes to you and says, this is what this is worth to me. How many brandables do you think get dropped every year?

Your brand of logic would also argue that MONEY is useless, unless YOU SPEND IT!

Now we are using red herring arguments as well, that are completely retarded. Nice job.

If you are American, your country believes in deficit spending, or Keynesian economics, so it is a funny argument to make.

 

[Sabre]

Who are you to ask my privacy? heck, even a lawyer can't ask me what I have...

If you are going to make a baseless claim, don't be surprised when people question its validity.

:gl:

To say that a domain has real value just because someone thinks it is worth picking up in the hopes that it may make them some money, or a sale is no better than betting on black at the casino. Regardless of research, we still buy clunkers, unless you are some sort of demigod.

Very valid point. Domaining certainly involves an element of luck - getting in contact with the right buyer, at the right time.

I completely understand both sides of the coin - but you are totally correct when you say that ultimately the value of a domain is in the value it can be sold at.. although..

Something to consider - does the development of a domain mean that the domain increases in value - or is this increased value simply a false representation of its true value due to the fact it is now considered a branded term? In other words, does the domain now hold further value or is it the site that holds the majority of the value?

I think much of this argument is based on differing opinions of value - those being speculative value and actual value. I would say both can be considered applicable ways to look at the 'value' of a domain. Sure, much of the domain market is ultimately speculative, but then again, speculation isn't always founded on the firm ground of reality. :blink:

:wave:

 

[firefly]

1) Pintrest, facebook, google, wikipedia were all reasonably short and memorable names before they were developed and promoted into what they are.

So are you saying that the development, marketing, and content make them valuable which they weren't in the beginning since you, or anyone else here didn't register them?

 

[silveraden]

If you are going to make a baseless claim, don't be surprised when people question its validity.

Because I said I did it, am I committed to prove it? I see you are losing an argument so I'll just sit and wait here...

And oh, I almost forgot about this thread until someone who makes sense posted everything... I'll just watch here :D

By the way, I just noticed that people who don't understand what this thread all about are actually making their living by selling "crappy" domains.. Now I clearly see their argument..and I totally understand them when they are just protecting their business interests... lol

 

[firefly]

Because I said I did it, am I committed to prove it? I see you are losing an argument so I'll just sit and wait here...

And oh, I almost forgot about this thread until someone who makes sense posted everything... I'll just watch here

Don't hide behind my points of view. By the way, guys like Sabre aren't losing. I hardly see this as an argument - more a discussion that involves some logically thinking people (in a couple of cases) that are willing to share differing points of view.

 

[silveraden]

Don't hide behind my opinions. By the way, guys like Sabre aren't losing. I hardly see this as an argument - more a discussion when it comes to logically thinking people that are willing to share differing points of view.

I'm not hiding. As you see I am still here busy coding and looking at this thread from time to time...

I stick to my own opinion even if the whole word is not unto it... :D

------------------

Oh, BTW,
thisiswhyimbroke.com seems pretty popular so the argument that short domains are valuable and memorable seems out of topic....

Facebook, pinterest, google, wikipedia - what these domains have in common? They are all wrong grammar and never heard before their owners developed them so they had no value...not until they became websites...

"watch movie online" - has 110,000 exact searches but where is watchmovieonline.com in google search? - another clear proof that domains alone have no value... until.... they are developed....

And with the latest google updates, domains will not be having a great part in SEO....

Type "make money online" in google and see the result. So, the idea that domains having related or exact keywords are more powerful and costs than those with unrelated keywords are forgotten by real domainers and SEO experts long ago..... Why I am saying this? Because most so-called appraisers in appraisal folder thinks that domains that have exact match costs something.....

What about premium domains? Premium domains is just an excuse of big registrars in making more money out of nothing. If you don't understand the domain business then don't tell me that you are making a living through buying and selling domains. You may do but you are doing it wrong.

 

[werty]

Crappy domains don't sell. Every developed domainer knows that. You seem to be stuck on that stage of the learning curve. Just accept your domains are worthless and go in the right direction. Or just keep looking for excuses to support your failures. You can choose either side of the coin...

 

[.NJ]

It's amazing to watch this thread slowly mutate into such an array of controversy.

When in reality, the original post was just another angry rant over receiving worthless appraisals for posted domains.

The writing was on the wall with the OP.

http://www.namepros.com/namepros-in...-domain-appraisal-folder-is-losing-value.html

 

[silveraden]

It's amazing to watch this thread slowly mutate into such an array of controversy.

When in reality, the original post was just another angry rant over receiving worthless appraisals for posted domains.

The writing was on the wall with the OP.

http://www.namepros.com/namepros-in...-domain-appraisal-folder-is-losing-value.html

Below is my original opening thread that has been a subject of longer discussion. Read 10000000 times and tell me if I said something about not receiving a good appraisal for my domains... You know what? Sometimes I'm tired of people like you who just came here and post nonsense without reading and understanding the topic... People like you who are judgmental should plant potatoes instead of joining the discussion and ruin the thread... I'm sorry if I'm too direct but you are really do not make sense.. Read my post below again 1 million times and quote something that support your statement above...

I see many nonsense posts like $0, not developed, not .com, etc. people saying these things are either dumb or just compiling number of posts.

Why ask for a developed domain when it is a domain appraisal folder. If is it developed, it is not just a domain anymore, right?

With the above argument, even if you post a newly-registered car.com, a dumb appraiser will still tell you it's $0 because it is not developed.

Majority of comments on appraisal folder are useless and I think the admin should check and consider having some specific rules in there.

Thank you
___________

On the other hand, read some of my given appraisals on other people's domain as well...
I will retire from this forum immediately if you can prove yourself right...

The other thread was created for all and not my rant of receiving poor appraisal... go figure..

Crappy domains don't sell. Every developed domainer knows that. You seem to be stuck on that stage of the learning curve. Just accept your domains are worthless and go in the right direction. Or just keep looking for excuses to support your failures. You can choose either side of the coin...

So you aren't over with my domains/websites yet even if I never mentioned anywhere about them here? Do you have any other things to say about this thread aside from attacking my domains/websites? Don't you understand that this topic/thread is not about my domains or whatever website I have so why keep on bringing in them?

When I say all domains are useless, I mean all, including my domains (not websites)... that also includes your unsold-expired-sucks-domains-here.

Because you are not getting over with my websites, then let's bring yours. Can you tell me why most of these domains expired? :D. Although its not a shame to register an ugly domain for $10 and offer it for $15, but what is embarrassing is to let them expire because no one is interested... lol

I love this forum, but other people take it personal when they read a thread that can't please them...

 

[.NJ]

People like you who are judgmental should plant potatoes instead

:lol:

Read my post below again 1 million times and quote something that support your statement above...

I only need to read it once.

Let me ask you this:

Would have have created these exact same threads if you received positve feedback from the names you posted to be appraised??

Chances are no.

So my "opinion" is based on this observation.

Im going to be honest here, not a personal attack, just an observation.

From the looks of most names you posted for appraisal, Im going say say that you are still somewhat inexperienced in the "domain industry".

Now alot of the time with inexperience comes frustration.

And sometimes with frustration comes anger.

And sometimes with anger come threads like these.

Again this is not a personal attack what so ever.

Just an "opinion" and "observation".