purchases Seller shadow bans me (deletes name after acq. attempt)

[Andreas B.]

Found a domain I am interested in to buy.

After I clicked 'Buy now', filled in the priv. information, and tried to pay for it, I realized that my account didn't have the needed funds.

So I had to transfer money onto it, and proceed with the acquisition later on.


After a few days, I receive a follow-up e-mail from the marketplace, that tells me to pay for the domain.

I click on the link, proceed to buy & pay.

Before paying, I visited the domain one more time, and what I see is:
The seller is using our nameservers, but has not listed the name on our marketplace.

Aha...


Few hours later I got a mail from the marketplace:

"I am sorry to inform you that the seller notified us that they are no longer the domain owners."

What the hell?!

A clear lie.


Which is really interesting & awkward at the same time:

Nameservers are the same, no whois transaction, nothing ...


Seller simply deleted the name from the marketplace, after figuring he is not (really) ready to sell the domain for the price, he himself actually listed it for!

But forgot to change the nameservers.



My opinion about that:

This seller should be blacklisted & banned from the marketplace.

And his name should be made public, for public shame.


That's my point of view.



You cannot list a domain for price X, and then, when someone inquires, you change your mind about the price!


That's stupid and dishonorable and you should no longer get the opportunity to list your names on that marketplace.

 

[DrJacoby]

21.

So you waited a whole week before trying to pay for the domain? Considering the low price of the domain, it's not unlikely at all that it actually sold during that week. Especially considering the change of Whois on the 17th.

 

[DomainRecap]

How can it not be listed on their marketplace but still have a BIN price?

Here's the scenario:

The OP saw a domain on a marketplace with a BIN and accepted it. Then there were some inconsequential and unneeded details about the payment, but once that was figured out the marketplace advised him that the domain was no longer listed there and that the transaction cannot take place.

So the domain was listed on the marketplace, but sometime between then the payment, the seller deleted it.

This is a common and marketplace-recommended method of getting rid of an old erroneous listing either expired or was already sold, but it should not be used to kill an existing deal. But some people use it like that.

 

[bmugford]

Found a domain I am interested in to buy.

After I clicked 'Buy now', filled in the priv. information, and tried to pay for it, I realized that my account didn't have the needed funds.

So I had to transfer money onto it, and proceed with the acquisition later on.


After a few days, I receive a follow-up e-mail from the marketplace, that tells me to pay for the domain.

I click on the link, proceed to buy & pay.

Before paying, I visited the domain one more time, and what I see is:
The seller is using our nameservers, but has not listed the name on our marketplace.

Aha...


Few hours later I got a mail from the marketplace:

"I am sorry to inform you that the seller notified us that they are no longer the domain owners."

What the hell?!

A clear lie.


Which is really interesting & awkward at the same time:

Nameservers are the same, no whois transaction, nothing ...


Seller simply deleted the name from the marketplace, after figuring he is not (really) ready to sell the domain for the price, he himself actually listed it for!

But forgot to change the nameservers.



My opinion about that:

This seller should be blacklisted & banned from the marketplace.

And his name should be made public, for public shame.


That's my point of view.



You cannot list a domain for price X, and then, when someone inquires, you change your mind about the price!


That's stupid and dishonorable and you should no longer get the opportunity to list your names on that marketplace.

The story is a little convoluted.

What was the venue?
Did you actually hit BIN?

Brad

 

[equity78]

I believe Dan gives buyers 12 days to pay. Still, this doesn't explain how a pending sale within that time frame didn't complete. In the past there were instances where I, as the seller, waited over 50 days to complete a transaction via Afternic because the buyer didn't want a push and the domain was transfer-locked. In my opinion, Dan should examine if at the time the purchase took place via BIN the domain was in the seller's possession. It doesn't matter what he did the day after.

I had one recently Theo, a buyer made a $500 offer, I accepted, it was easy to find out who the buyer was she was posting on social media. but did not pay, after two weeks DAN asked me if I wanted to continue to wait? I said no because I found her email address easily let her know she agreed to purchase a domain name but if she did not want it, let me know so I can tell DAN to cancel the transaction. She did not reply to me while that night talking about where she hoped to get her drink on. So I told DAN to cancel.

 

[Acroplex]

I had one recently Theo, a buyer made a $500 offer, I accepted, it was easy to find out who the buyer was she was posting on social media. but did not pay, after two weeks DAN asked me if I wanted to continue to wait? I said no because I found her email address easily let her know she agreed to purchase a domain name but if she did not want it, let me know so I can tell DAN to cancel the transaction. She did not reply to me while that night talking about where she hoped to get her drink on. So I told DAN to cancel.

Now that's a classic!

 

[DrJacoby]

The seller is using our nameservers, but has not listed the name on our marketplace.

How can it not be listed on their marketplace but still have a BIN price?

 

[DrJacoby]

If you didn't even pay for the domain then I don't see the big problem.

You can check out what happened to me just recently. Seller wouldn't transfer the domain even though I had payed for it: https://www.namepros.com/threads/high-profile-domainer-refuses-to-transfer-sold-domain.1324667/

Feel free to DM me the name of the seller to see if it's the same guy that fooled me.

 

[werty]

You are totally right - from a legal standpoint (in my case).

In your case this is MUCH WORSE.


But:
That is why, the marketplace should react accordingly!


Making clear to every seller, that a BIN price is a binding sale price.


When someone inquires for that particular BIN price, that means that a sale-price agreement is reached.

And that the seller cannot delete or change / renegotiate the price afterwards.


When I then pay, as a buyer, I must be given the right to get the domain.


Either I get it, OR the seller must be punished for it - means, banned from the marketplace.


But this is something, only the marketplace can do.


The marketplace is the one, to watch out that integrity and staying to what you price your names for is being kept & obeyed!


And that is more than important in this business.


>> The marketplace would do us all a huge favor, when it would act accordingly.



Everything adds up perfectly, my friend.

Seller listed the domain, verified the ownership, and priced the domain.

After I inquired, he simply changed his mind (on the price) and actively deleted the domain from his marketplace account.

Inquired and buy it now isn't the same, that's one of my confusions. Did you just inquire or did you actually "buy it now"? In the end, the industry is full of unethical buyers and sellers (unfortunately all industries have unethical players). Do you have any proof or clues that the current owner of the domain is the same owner of such marketplace account who made such listing? It could be an old listing that didn't get deleted and the current owner of the domain might have nothing to do with it.

 

[werty]

No,

it was listed for a BIN price, and I hit the buy button.

Ok, I might have expressed this wrong - it was not Make offer, but a bin price.

There is really nothing you can do at this point other than try to reach the current owner directly or just move on... It happens.. Good luck.

 

[dbdomains]

So I had to transfer money onto it, and proceed with the acquisition later on.

After a few days, I receive a follow-up e-mail from the marketplace, that tells me to pay for the domain.

I click on the link, proceed to buy & pay.

So I am a bit confused also. How long was "a few days"? It could be a scenario like others above have mentioned. How long do most marketplaces give a buyer to pay when the BIN?

 

[AEProgram]

where name servers point mean nothing. Most of us sold domains to people that didn't change the nameservers for months or even years.

Others options are the seller realized he does not own the name anymore or he had sellers remorse, VERY common.

I already said this. Fast transfer was invented to combat seller remorse. If you contact a domainer and say "your domain sold for the asking price of 5k" most will start a process of hallucination.

"I remember pricing it way higher"

"did the broker edit the price"

"I wonder if I can cancel the sale"

"should have asked for more"

All these hallucinations get worse when friends and family start convincing them that the buyer would have paid a million dollars if only they asked for it. The hallucinations continue. "Just imagine, with the million dollars I could have made some good stock market investments and turned it into 100 million, then take that 100 million and throw it into crypto and forex and got myself a trading bot and turned it into 5 billions, then take the 5 billion and invest in.... and turn it into 5 trillion. I basically just lost 5 trillion because like an idiot I agreed to sell for 5k."

Fast transfer is not designed to cure sellers from the paranoia and hallucinations that come with sellers remorse, it is designed to protect buyers and brokers.

The same happens if you contact a domainer owner and ask for a price. If he replies with 5k and you say, deal!. Expect never to hear from them again. Why? Because he is convinced he would have gotten more if he asked. This is why you must always counter or you will probably not get the domain. They say 5k you must say 4k or 4500 or 2k or anything, this protects you from them vanishing in most cases.

This happens to real estate brokers all the time. Contact a person that does not have a home listed right now, ask them what they want to sell the home. They say a mil, you say great sold. You will not get the home PERIOD. Obviously if there is a iron clad contract its a different story. However, even if its a listing with a price and you offer that price, sellers will be convinced they could have gotten more (like domainers, they might be right) and they start blaming the broker or family member for suggesting that "low" price, regardless how much the price was. If not for contracts, most home owners would back out of the deal once someone comes and gives the asking without negotiation.

 

[MKA]

The domain could've sold before you even clicked "buy." Some sellers don't bother un-listing their domains after they've sold through a different venue. In fact, I own one Chinese domain that is still listed on 4.cn (by the original owner) after I bought it through escrow.

 

[werty]

Yeah, I knew something wasn't adding up... It was fair game... It's upsetting on the selling side when buyers drag on payment as well... Just move on, and do better next time. It happens...

 

[equity78]

Now that's a classic!

I know I was pissing my pants, and nothing in my email to her was angry or anything. I was just like I see you made an offer and I accepted if you want to back out just let me know She just ignored me. The name was Public Relations related and that was her degree and what she did for a living, she was fresh out of college, so I figured I will help a young person out. Nope, not even the courtesy of a reply.

 

[Andreas B.]

Yeah, I knew something wasn't adding up... It was fair game... It's upsetting on the selling side when buyers drag on payment as well... Just move on, and do better next time. It happens...

Hey,

well, now that I thought a bit about it, ...
there are two (major) orange flags.

1st, DAN by default reports each sale to namebio.
You have to turn it off by yourself; many sellers don't do it.

The name however, is nowhere to be found at namebio.

2nd, name was registered on feb. 15th, and exactly 2 months later (apr. 17th) whois status gets updated.

So, approximately 60 days after (transferlock period), when you are able to move to domain.


I don't care anymore, as its ok for me.

But, this two points at least do not undermine my suspection,
that he just didn't want to sell & deleted the name from DAN.



Whatever, I keep your recommendation, and move on....

Thanks everybody for your thoughts on this!

 

[Andreas B.]

So you never paid for it? And also, why would you go pay for something and then figure out you don't have enough funds? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

I did not pay - but I inquired, at the price it was listed for.

No, I do not have 24/7 overview over my funds on a paypal account, I almost never use.

And paying via bank-transfer, would take a lot more time, ain't it?


And who tells me that the seller does not change his mind x times during the 3 days (or more) bank transfer...?

 

[werty]

I am just sharing my perspective. It would be wrong if you had paid for it and then the seller backs out. Or if you had reached an agreement in price with the seller. Otherwise I don't see anything wrong from my perspective. The owner of the domain can do whatever they want listing wise. You inquired and the listing status or price changed. It's easy to log into paypal to check balance, just saying...

 

[Andreas B.]

I am just sharing my perspective. It would be wrong if you had paid for it and then the seller backs out. Or if you reached an agreement in price with the seller. Otherwise I don't see anything wrong from my perspective. The owner of the domain can do whatever they want listing wise. You inquired and the listing status or price changed.

Well that is the case: I reached an agreement with the seller over the price!

This is what the BIN price stands for!


I think the seller should be ashamed for not staying to his obligations.

But this is just my point of view.


Maybe times are different now, and a word does not count as a word anymore...

 

[werty]

I am not shaming anyone; you asked for opinions by posting this rant. So it's sedo we are talking about I guess? The only marketplace that lets you "buy now" without paying. If that's the case, it could certainly be an old listing and the current owner is the same as when you checked and not the one who made such marketplace listing? Now if the current owner is indeed the one who made that marketplace listing, then yes, on that case it would be an unethical seller. Unless you took more than 7 days or so to pay, in which case, sedo lets sellers cancel.

 

[Andreas B.]

I am not shaming anyone; you asked for opinions by posting this rant. So it's sedo we are talking about I guess? The only marketplace that lets you "buy now" without paying. If that's the case, it could certainly be an old listing and the current owner is the same as when you checked and not the one who made such marketplace listing? Now if the current owner is indeed the one who made that marketplace listing, then yes, on that case it would be an unethical seller.

Can be another marketplace...

What I can say:

If the marketplace seeks to uphold integrity & honorable behaviour (and to stay to what you list your names for, when they get an inquire),


then the marketplace would have to give that seller the only 2 options:

Either sell the domain for the price, he had listed it for at the time of my inquiry,
or ban him from the marketplace.


But I can almost say in certainty, that neither of both will happen.


Because today everyhthing happens in anonymity on the internet...

and people no longer have to carry the responsibility for their actions, which they actually should be hold accountable for.


That is very sad.

 

[werty]

Well you have to consider also that marketplaces have a percentage of invalid or outdated listings... Maybe the current owner has nothing to do with this. Sedo or whichever marketplace also shouldn't let people click "buy now" without paying but this is more something I personally don't like when I am the seller and nothing to do with this negative experience you are sharing.

 

[Andreas B.]

Well you have to consider also that marketplaces have a percentage of invalid or outdated listings... Maybe the current owner has nothing to do with this. Sedo or whichever marketplace also shouldn't let people click "buy now" without paying but this is more something I personally don't like when I am the seller and nothing to do with this negative experience you are sharing.

But the problem is:
It is / was a valid listing.


So I should be on the safe side on to getting the domain for the Price I inquired for...
But I am more than sure that the marketplace is not ready to tell the seller:
Either you hand over the domain now, or we ban you.

That won't happen, but it should.
Especially when money is involved, especially when it is about digital assets.

 

[Andreas B.]

How can it not be listed on their marketplace but still have a BIN price?

When I inquired, it was listed.
Everything totally fine & how it should be.

After I tried to pay & couldn't,

seller (must have gotten) the notification, that someone is inquiring and wants to buy the name.

At this very moment, the seller thought:
No, I don't want to sell that domain for that price.

I want more!


And so he deleted the domain from his marketplace account /domain list
...while not changing the nameservers.


When I then came back to pay for it and finish the process,
marketplace staff told me:

"I am sorry to inform you that the seller notified us that they are no longer the domain owners."


I mean, the thing is more than clear to me.

 

[werty]

A few details don't add up in the story or maybe I am not understanding well but anyways just try reaching the current owner directly with your offer... Cut the "middleman" out (marketplace).