RON PAUL - Why is he being ignored?

[GILSAN]

As a foreigner I've always been interested in American politics because it affects the rest of the world. I've always looked up to American's strong belief in freedom but in the last 10-15 years I notice that the American Mainstream Media (MSM) have taken control of the majority of the population's minds and have decided who should win the candidacy both for the Democrats and Republicans.

And this brainwashing seems to get worse all the time. Three years ago the MSM decided that Obama should be the winner and so they where very biased against Hilary Clinton. Result; The media and Obama won.

Now with the Republican nomination the Media is even worse as they seem to have already chosen Mitt Romney to win. What really amazes me is how the Media has totally ignored Ron Paul who appears to be the 2nd most popular candidate, despite the fact that he is being ignored. Just imagine if they (MSM) were to talk about him; He'd probably be the front runner.

Could this (ignoring Ron Paul) be due to to the fact that the MSM is controlled by Jews and they don't like the fact that Ron Paul has said the he would stop Foreign aid to Israel and the rest of the world. Or are they afraid that Ron Paul has the the best chance of beating Obama, therefore by choosing Romney, Obama will obviously have a better chance to win.

What amazes me is that the media is not even being discreet about ignoring RP. Whatever happened to the unbiased American media that the world so much admired?

 

[Kate]

Are you serious? You haven't lived in this country in 20 years and you're trying to say how it is to live here? And how big a deal would it be giving up your citizenship when you haven't lived here in 20 years, that's a long damn time.

He wouldn't be the first nor the last. Renouncing US citizenship is one step to more freedom.
The US is one of the very few countries that taxes its own citizens on their worldwide income, including non residents.
If you gave me a US passport for free I would run away. For travel purposes I prefer my passport issued by a small European country that has no enemies and is not constantly living in the fear of terrorist attacks.

Domainace is making a good point about freedoms. Americans think they live in the freest nation in the world, that isn't true. Problem is that they don't realize that.

In America you don't have privacy therefore you are not really free.

Also your freedom is correlated to the size of your portfolio.

The US also has more inmates than any other country including a repressive regime like China. Land of the free ? In America the odds that you will be doing jail time is higher than anywhere else, including for victimless crimes.

There is no freedom of choice either, because your vote is confiscated: if you are fed up with one party there is little you can do but swing to the other one until the next election. A two-party system.

The US is also the chief sponsor for all the bad bills that aim to eliminate privacy or kill the Internet, no matter what the pretenses.

Sorry for the rant, I could go on and on, back to domains here is an example of your government in action:
http://www.thedomains.com/2008/03/0...t-it-means-to-you-in-light-of-the-snowe-bill/
Only in America.

That's the problem, even the worst dictatorial regimes understand and accept that their power is limited by national boundaries... The US does not.

In order to cure an illness or a perceived problem, you must:
a. accept you have a problem
b. obtain an accurate diagnosis

Condition a. is partly met, b. is not.

 

[Domainace]

Airports? Ok, seizure of property and business without a trial, being arrested for videotaping police in public, police handcuffing a child. Google any of these, there are plenty of examples. Or don't.

Verbster, try rereading what I wrote, see if you can understand it better the second time. I didn't claim I was an expert on China, but I did business in China. Of course it's possible to live and do business in a country and still know less about it than some guy at his computer in an American suburb, but that would be exceptional wouldn't it?

So far as getting rich and communism, you also completely misread that. Try again.

I didn't come here for your advice, or even to debate. You can either open your eyes or not. I only care about your opinions because they reflect an unfortunately large chunk of the US population. I'm not going to run around in circles playing games, which always seems to happen when posts get political.

"That's the problem, even the worst dictatorial regimes understand and accept that their power is limited by national boundaries... The US does not."

That's the crux of it, for me. I have to protect my family. At one time, we planned to get citizenship for my wife, but why burden her with that? The kids can makes up their minds when they are of age.

Qualifying individually perceived states of freedom based on the perception of airport security is useless. I've lived in China and many places around the globe, too, but so what? Living in another country just means your perspective on another country's politics may be slightly different; it doesn't mean its more insightful or more accurate. I had many good and bad experiences in China, but it didn't make me an expert on Chinese politics. It just gave me a personal opinion based on my experiences.

By the way, it appears to be your opinion that being encouraged to get rich somehow equates to communism, the exact opposite of what theoretical communism extolls.

By the way, I laughed at your laughing frog, but not for any reason you may think i did.

I missed your point here.

And, as SDSINC said, the number of people in Americans prisons is remarkable, yet another indication of a police state. In America, one third of people under 23 have been arrested at least once. You can laugh about this too if you wish, but it would be seen as a shocking and unbelievable figure in many other countries. Either this is police state activity, or one third of all youth are criminals. Which do you accept? (These are non-traffic offenses.)

 

[verbster]

Airports? Ok, seizure of property and business without a trial, being arrested for videotaping police in public, police handcuffing a child. Google any of these, there are plenty of examples. Or don't.

Verbster, try rereading what I wrote, see if you can understand it better the second time. I didn't claim I was an expert on China, but I did business in China. Of course it's possible to live and do business in a country and still know less about it than some guy at his computer in an American suburb, but that would be exceptional wouldn't it?

So far as getting rich and communism, you also completely misread that. Try again.

I didn't come here for your advice, or even to debate. You can either open your eyes or not. I only care about your opinions because they reflect an unfortunately large chunk of the US population. I'm not going to run around in circles playing games, which always seems to happen when posts get political.

"That's the problem, even the worst dictatorial regimes understand and accept that their power is limited by national boundaries... The US does not."

That's the crux of it, for me. I have to protect my family. At one time, we planned to get citizenship for my wife, but why burden her with that? The kids can makes up their minds when they are of age.


I missed your point here.

Next time I'll type slower and use shorter words.

 

[JB Lions]

He wouldn't be the first nor the last. Renouncing US citizenship is one step to more freedom.
The US is one of the very few countries that taxes its own citizens on their worldwide income, including non residents.
If you gave me a US passport for free I would run away. For travel purposes I prefer my passport issued by a small European country that has no enemies and is not constantly living in the fear of terrorist attacks.

Domainace is making a good point about freedoms. Americans think they live in the freest nation in the world, that isn't true. Problem is that they don't realize that.

In America you don't have privacy therefore you are not really free.

Also your freedom is correlated to the size of your portfolio.

The US also has more inmates than any other country including a repressive regime like China. Land of the free ? In America the odds that you will be doing jail time is higher than anywhere else, including for victimless crimes.

There is no freedom of choice either, because your vote is confiscated: if you are fed up with one party there is little you can do but swing to the other one until the next election. A two-party system.

The US is also the chief sponsor for all the bad bills that aim to eliminate privacy or kill the Internet, no matter what the pretenses.

Sorry for the rant, I could go on and on, back to domains here is an example of your government in action:
http://www.thedomains.com/2008/03/0...t-it-means-to-you-in-light-of-the-snowe-bill/
Only in America.

That's the problem, even the worst dictatorial regimes understand and accept that their power is limited by national boundaries... The US does not.

In order to cure an illness or a perceived problem, you must:
a. accept you have a problem
b. obtain an accurate diagnosis

Condition a. is partly met, b. is not.

I thought you're American? Are you Canadian or what? The sites in your sig have an American address or is something else going on?

"In America you don't have privacy therefore you are not really free."

What do you mean by that, specifically?

"The US also has more inmates than any other country including a repressive regime like China. Land of the free ? In America the odds that you will be doing jail time is higher than anywhere else, including for victimless crimes."

Yeah, if you break the law, lol. Victimless crimes, I guess you're talking about drugs? If so, I kind of agree with you on that one.

"There is no freedom of choice either, because your vote is confiscated: if you are fed up with one party there is little you can do but swing to the other one until the next election. A two-party system."

Your vote is confiscated, what? You can vote for whoever you want. Yes, we primarily have a two party system but there are others because we have that freedom.

"The US is also the chief sponsor for all the bad bills that aim to eliminate privacy or kill the Internet, no matter what the pretenses.

Sorry for the rant, I could go on and on, back to domains here is an example of your government in action:
http://www.thedomains.com/2008/03/04...he-snowe-bill/
Only in America."

Kill the internet? Drastic much? Those bills didn't pass and they were primarily for illegal activity, they need to be rewritten better. I guess people forget where the internet came from. Internet isn't going anywhere, not going to get killed etc.

"In America, one third of people under 23 have been arrested at least once. You can laugh about this too if you wish, but it would be seen as a shocking and unbelievable figure in many other countries. Either this is police state activity, or one third of all youth are criminals. Which do you accept? "

Yeah, and probably most of that is minor league stuff, probably alcohol related.

6.6% of the population will serve time in prison, that makes 93.4% that won't.

"Airports? Ok, seizure of property and business without a trial, being arrested for videotaping police in public, police handcuffing a child. Google any of these, there are plenty of examples. Or don't."

So we can't Google whatever country you're claiming nowadays and find issues? Do you see people in this country jumping in the ocean, trying to get to Communist Cuba or the other way around? Why do you think that is? Do you see lots of people from this country trying to stream into Mexico, or the other way around?

China so great and free, yay - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Borders_2009_Press_Freedom_Rankings_Map.svg

See that part in the red? That's China.

 

[Kate]

Airports? Ok, seizure of property and business without a trial, being arrested for videotaping police in public, police handcuffing a child. Google any of these, there are plenty of examples. Or don't.

Talking about airports proof that the US is building an Orwellian police state:

http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1231972592442.shtm

And they have heavily lobbied (I mean bullied) other nations to follow the example. Hint: ever wonder why non-US persons may resent US policy laundering when it affects them.

Also, they are expanding the system, very soon nobody will be exempt. They don't want loopholes after all. They never caught one single terrorist either, but that's not the point. The aim is total control of the populace. There is no other rational explanation.
All that under the guise of the so-called war on terror that has claimed many more casualties in the rest of the world than in the US proper... one more thing than Americans fail to realize.

The beauty of the system is that people believe they are free. Let's be fair, the US is not China or North Korea but Americans tend to overrate their own living conditions.

Those conditions look set to deteriorate now that the US is virtually bankrupt.
At least Ron Paul is one of the few talking about those inconvenient topics. But he doesn't seem to have a solution other than defaulting (think of a soldier surrendering right after being hit by a deadly bullet).

RON PAUL - Why is he being ignored ?
Because the bits of truth he distils here and there are just too painful to be told to the public. Politicians are in the business of distracting you from the issues that matter.
If people truly understood the extent of the problem they would start a revolution overnight.

 

[Jawed]

Just to change the debate a bit, I watched Game Change last week. Never seen such a black comedy in my life; kept laughing throughout the movie. I never liked right-wingers but Sarah Palin had my full sympathy in the movie due to the situation she was put in.

I don't want to generalise it but if the Governor of a state has such poor knowledge of the rest of the world, let alone ordinary Americans. No wonder why US foreign policy is such a disaster.

Make no mistake: I believe the Americans are the most hardworking, productive and generous nation on earth.

 

[JB Lions]

"Talking about airports proof that the US is building an Orwellian police state"

digital fingerprints and a photograph? What about ID cards? OMG.

"but Americans tend to overrate their own living conditions."

Wouldn't it actually helped if you lived in America? My living conditions are great. I've lived in a few different states, I've also lived in Germany growing up, was great there too.

"If people truly understood the extent of the problem they would start a revolution overnight"

The government is out to get us, oh nooooo. Is there some kind of contest for the most ridiculous statement in this thread, that I'm not aware of? So if Americans "truly understood" there would be a revolution. Brilliant.

I'm just waiting for the Hitler and Nazi references so Godwin's Law can win again. But hey, we got Communist, Orwellian Police State, Revolution, so not bad. You and Domainace mentioning airports as if things wouldn't get tightened up a little after what happened. Maybe we should have less security than we had? We're still not on Israel security levels yet, but maybe we can try harder.

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Just to change the debate a bit, I watched Game Change last week. Never seen such a black comedy in my life; kept laughing throughout the movie. I never liked right-wingers but Sarah Palin had my full sympathy in the movie due to the situation she was put in.

I don't want to generalise it but if the Governor of a state has such poor knowledge of the rest of the world, let alone ordinary Americans. No wonder why US foreign policy is such a disaster.

Make no mistake: I believe the Americans are the most hardworking, productive and generous nation on earth.

I wanted to see that one but cut out HBO last year, sure it'll be on Netflix in the future. Yeah, that was probably one of the most ridiculous picks for VP ever. I still can't believe that one. You search thru the whole party, the one that can best take your place as President, and Palin was the best they came up with, amazing. I'm sure McCain wanted somebody else, so I think he sold out some with that pick. I mean, that's one of the most important first decisions you make when running for President, and he failed miserably.

 

[Qtip]

The lack of media coverage that RP is getting really makes me annoyed but I guess it's pretty typical of the media.

I just really hope that Mitt Romney doesn't get.

 

[DU]

The Fight has been going on forever. The two party system is a major failing of the U.S. and continues to foster the manipulation of the massed by the current leaders. Whether you consider yourself left or right - you're still just being played against each other. As for Ron Paul? Replacing Corporate Capitalism with Free Market Capitalism isn't actually much of a real change, is it.

[ame]http://youtu.be/lxW5yvpeHg4[/ame]

 

[Domainace]

"In America, one third of people under 23 have been arrested at least once. "
Yeah, and probably most of that is minor league stuff, probably alcohol related.

Do you see people in this country jumping in the ocean, trying to get to Communist Cuba or the other way around? Why do you think that is? Do you see lots of people from this country trying to stream into Mexico, or the other way around?

China so great and free, yay - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Borders_2009_Press_Freedom_Rankings_Map.svg
See that part in the red? That's China.

One more, as it seems we're not going anywhere here. But I appreciate the lack of hostility

You accept that a third of all youth can be arrested for minor offenses quite blithely - this is what I mean by the warming water. The government has conditioned the public to accept that it's OK to arrest people for minor offenses, even when that means arrest becomes so common that people just shrug it off. That attitude grants immense powers to the state right there.

You can say it doesn't bother you now, you have a nice house, the US is better than China, etc. All of that may be true - but it is changing, and that change will accelerate. This sort of thing has been a constant throughout history.

So far as Cubans and Mexicans, did you know Greece is flooded with immigrants? Did you know Northeast China also has to hold back a tide of North Korean refugees? Pakistan has received tons of refugees from Afghanistan in the past. Does that make them nice places to live?

American is generally seen as a better place to be than Mexico or Cuba, but it is getting steadily less desirable. When the Cubans and Mexicans stop coming, it will be way too late.

It's not hysteria - just a simple observance of the facts and a knowledge of history. How about taxation in Egypt?
Soon, however, the pharaohs took to expensive wars, and after 246 B.C. they gave themselves to drink and venery, allowing the administration of the state and the economy to fall into the hands of rascals who ground every possible penny out of the poor. Generation after generation the government's exactions grew. Strikes increased in number and violence. In the capital, Alexandria, the populace was bribed to peace by bounties and spectacles, but it was watched by a large military force, was allowed no voice in the government, and became in the end a violent mob. Agriculture and industry decayed through lack of incentive; moral disintegration spread; and order was not restored until Octavius brought Egypt under Roman rule (30 B.C.).

And Rome, which sounds remarkably familiar:
Faced with increasing poverty and restlessness among the masses, and with imminent danger of barbarian invasion, he issued in A.D. 3°I an Edictum de pretiis, which denounced monopolists for keeping goods from the market to raise prices, and set maximum prices and wages for all im- portant articles and services. Extensive public works were undertaken to put the unemployed to work, and food was distributed gratis, or at reduced prices, to the poor. The government, which already owned most mines, quarries, and salt deposits, brought nearly all major industries and guilds under detailed control.

"In every large town," we are told, "the state became a powerful employer, standing head and shoulders above the private industrialists, who were in any case crushed by taxation." When businessmen predicted ruin, Diocletian explained that the barbarians were at the gate, and that individual liberty had to be shelved until collective liberty could be made secure. The socialism of Diocletian was a war economy, made possible by fear of foreign attack. Other factors equal, internal liberty varies inversely as external danger.
The task of controlling men in economic detail proved too much for Diocletian's expanding, expensive, and corrupt bureaucracy. To support this officialdom, the army, the court, public works, and the dole-taxation rose to such heights that men lost incentive to work or earn, and an erosive contest began between lawyers finding devices to evade taxes and lawyers formulating laws to prevent evasion. Thousands of Romans, to escape the tax gatherer, fled over the frontiers to seek refuge among the barbarians. Seeking to check this elusive mobility, and to facilitate regulation and taxation, the government issued decrees binding the peasant to his field and the worker to his shop until all his debts and taxes had been paid. In this and other ways medieval serfdom began.43
Will and Ariel Durant

 

[Kate]

I'm just waiting for the Hitler and Nazi references so Godwin's Law can win again. But hey, we got Communist, Orwellian Police State, Revolution, so not bad. You and Domainace mentioning airports as if things wouldn't get tightened up a little after what happened. Maybe we should have less security than we had? We're still not on Israel security levels yet, but maybe we can try harder.

Exactly my point, you don't seem to realize there is a major problem here, that government has gone overboard, you're actually willing to take even more. I wonder how high you will set the bar. Treating everybody like a potential terrorist is not going to make us more secure.

Personally I think that the accelerated loss of freedoms in the Western world is a telltale sign that our civilization is shipwrecked, there is no comfort in denial.
Unsustainable debt is another pressing issue as well, we just cannot bury our heads in the sand and hope for the best. It's going to blow in our face. The question is when.
That is not just a US problem though. But the US is definitely not immune.

Most candidates don't have anything to say about it, as if it weren't a problem. TBH I have never seen a candidate winning on the promise of a balanced budget.

You and I are living a good life but one has to look at the whole picture. I am under no illusion that our way of life is fragile and could be shattered very quickly. All the things that we take for granted are just a blip in the wheel of time. History is full of surprises.

 

[Domainace]

All the things that we take for granted are just a blip in the wheel of time. History is full of surprises.

That comment should be engraved in stone. People naturally prefer to maintain the illusion of permanence. With regard to empires, it's stunning how quickly they can fall. They rot from the inside until there's only a shell of a facade, and eventually all it takes is one push to bring it down. Since it has happened to every single major civilization, without exception, it would seem we can't avoid it. I just hope we can postpone it.

 

[JB Lions]

Where to start.

First off, Domainace. I noticed you simply copy and pasted some text off some right wing blogs, down to the same words bolded, down to the same misinformation. Diocletian wasn't even born yet in 3 AD, try 245 - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/164042/Diocletian If you read some of the comments on those blogs, you'll see some of that just taken apart.

Trying to compare today to some ancient civilizations is ridiculous. Each situation is unique. Just because Mike Mann can register 10,000+ domains in one day and make money, doesn't mean you can. There are so many different variables involved, try to stay in a somewhat recent history. We've had a couple of world wars, Vietnam, Korea, other conflicts, Great Depression, Civil Rights Movement, American Civil War etc, things have been pretty bad and we got thru it all, we'll get thru this minor blip as well. We are a pretty diverse nation, you can disagree on the internet, provided by the Good Ole USA.

Ok sdsinc, first, I'm still waiting for you to tell me where you live. You won't because I might find out the country you do live in, has taxes, way higher than the U.S. or requires it's men to serve in the military which goes to.......

"accelerated loss of freedoms"

Problem with that is, we have this thing called American History. You point out airport screening, again, any country that had the kind of attacks we did, is going to tighten things up, that's just common sense.

So lets see, we had:
prohibition - done away with

women couldn't vote/other women's right issues - done away with

civil rights - lot of stuff done away with

used to be a draft - none anymore - unlike some other countries, one you might live in for all I know.

etc. Over time, people have fought for more rights/freedom and we have slowly evolved.

How about today?

Gay marriage - one day that will be allowed everywhere. Slowly you see it happening state by state, Obama mentioned his changing views on it. Second term is when you can really get into stuff like that, so I expect something there.

Online gambling - I'd like to see this legal one day. I want to be able to login somewhere, legally, and bet NFL football. Of course I don't call it gambling, I call it making money.

Marijuana - see prohibition

So you can say "accelerated loss of freedoms" but history says otherwise.

This nonsense about the U.S. and communism, usually from people not even actually living in this country. One day, if you can, find a U.S. citizen that used to actually live in a Communist country, tell the the same stuff you've posted here. Now when they're done laughing or the bewildered look goes from their face, maybe they will take the time to educate you, so you don't post such ridiculous things on the internet in the future.

It's just a lot of defeatist attitude I'm seeing, so Un-American

Wanted to pass this along, pretty interesting, since we're talking about freedom - [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices"]List of freedom indices - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[GILSAN]

How about today?

Gay marriage - one day that will be allowed everywhere. Slowly you see it happening state by state, Obama mentioned his changing views on it. Second term is when you can really get into stuff like that, so I expect something there.

Online gambling - I'd like to see this legal one day. I want to be able to login somewhere, legally, and bet NFL football. Of course I don't call it gambling, I call it making money.

Marijuana - see prohibition
[/url]

For the things that you find very important in your life, here-s how things stand in Portugal>

Gay Marriage was approved about 4 years ago.

Online Gambling is legal as is most of Europe if I'm not wrong.

Marijuana is not legal

Our Politicians are just as bad as the Americans if not worse.

Our Media, however is FAR FAR Superior to the American Media which is so biased either to the left or to the right, that it makes me cringe and scratch my head in disbelief and ask how on earth can you accept this BS from the MSM.

The US Media, owned by a few, is the most powerful tool used to brainwash the people. Its created a war between liberals and conservatives, and the people are happily riding the wave. Its dividing people like never before. Look how the Media, especially the liberal ones handled the Trayvon Martin case. All they managed was to create a bigger divide between whites and blacks, by omitting or editing the 911 tapes to make it appear like a racial or hate crime.

 

[JB Lions]

"Gay Marriage was approved about 4 years ago.

Online Gambling is legal as is most of Europe if I'm not wrong."

"For the things that you find very important in your life, here-s how things stand in Portugal"

I wouldn't say those specific topics are important in my life, it's more what's behind it, backwardness, which I can't stand. As I've said, I've lived over in Europe, 12 years off and on, and that's one thing I think we can agree on. Europe has a lot more personal freedom with things like that. I always thought we should be more progressive, it's why I can't vote for the right. We even have a state like Alabama, that still has a sex toy ban, it's crazy. Like I said, I think we'll eventually make those improvements, just not as fast as I would like.

As far as the media in Portugal. I don't know. I don't live there and you don't live here but checking the link I just posted above, Portugal and United States both get a "satisfactory situation".

Now when it comes to
Economic Freedom:
Portugal - moderately free
U.S. - mostly free

Democracy Index
Portugal - flawed democracy
U.S. - full democracy

So U.S. is beating Portugal there.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices"]List of freedom indices - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[GILSAN]

We even have a state like Alabama, that still has a sex toy ban, it's crazy. Like I said, I think we'll eventually make those improvements, just not as fast as I would like.

As far as the media in Portugal. I don't know. I don't live there and you don't live here but checking the link I just posted above, Portugal and United States both get a "satisfactory situation".

Now when it comes to
Economic Freedom:
Portugal - moderately free
U.S. - mostly free

Democracy Index
Portugal - flawed democracy
U.S. - full democracy

So U.S. is beating Portugal there.

List of freedom indices - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With such a variety of people from all over the world you are bound to have lots of different mentalities.

I agree with the Economic freedom, more or less, but not the Democratic Index being a Flawed Democracy.

We have 5 parties in parliament, which is similar all over Europe, making it a much more representative democracy than the US with its 2 party system. You see a rainbow is formed by lots of colors, not just two. The US, from what I understand makes it extremely hard to have a third party participate in the elections, so Id say the US has a very flawed democracy and a biased Media that makes matters even worse. As an example, do you know if you have a third party running for the November elections? I’ve not read anything about it.

 

[JB Lions]

With such a variety of people from all over the world you are bound to have lots of different mentalities.

I agree with the Economic freedom, more or less, but not the Democratic Index being a Flawed Democracy.

We have 5 parties in parliament, which is similar all over Europe, making it a much more representative democracy than the US with its 2 party system. You see a rainbow is formed by lots of colors, not just two. The US, from what I understand makes it extremely hard to have a third party participate in the elections, so Id say the US has a very flawed democracy and a biased Media that makes matters even worse. As an example, do you know if you have a third party running for the November elections? I’ve not read anything about it.

Mike Mann Green Tea Party 2012 - http://www.thegreenteaparty.com/

I'd actually like to see more strong parties. I think the Republican party is in trouble based on what I posted earlier. This country is opening up, see stats on Gay Marriage, Legalization of Marijuana, more and more people are finding that acceptable. But the Republicans are dug in to the far right. So how does that work out in the future? They're still going to be strongly against all this, while the country won't be. It'll get discussed more after Romney loses. So I wish there were more strong parties, that represented more of America or somebody, as far as Republicans go, strong enough to move the party back to the middle, get out of the grasp of the Christian right. There's no future in it. Maybe there is a glimmer of hope. Santorum represented the right and he didn't get the nod. Socially to the middle/left, business middle, step to the right. Pick candidates that can actually compete (not Sarah Palin types) and they'll have a better chance of competing. Will be interesting to see who Romney picks.

As far as other Parties, somebody can run as an independent, get supporters, money etc. Look at Ross Perot: "By the summer Perot commanded a lead in the presidential race with thirty-nine percent of the vote."

"In the 1992 election, he received 18.9% of the popular vote"

It fell apart later on but the right person, in the right situation can make a run.

 

[GILSAN]

Mike Mann Green Tea Party 2012 - http://www.thegreenteaparty.com/

As far as other Parties, somebody can run as an independent, get supporters, money etc. Look at Ross Perot: "By the summer Perot commanded a lead in the presidential race with thirty-nine percent of the vote."

"In the 1992 election, he received 18.9% of the popular vote"

It fell apart later on but the right person, in the right situation can make a run.

The Green Tea Party. :O If hadn't asked I'd never have known.

Yes I remember Ross Perot and before him there was another guy that I believe was a bit to the far right if I'm not wrong, Can't remember his name right now

 

[Domainace]

Where to start.

First off, Domainace. I noticed you simply copy and pasted some text off some right wing blogs, down to the same words bolded, down to the same misinformation.

I just gave up on you, JB. That was copied and pasted from a well-know book called "Lessons of History", published in 1968 (sometimes before blogs were common, I think), written by a very prominent historian. He probably made errors, as all historians do, but at least have the decency to use source material other than blog comments. And the bold bits were selected by myself for your reading convenience. Sorry I made the effort.

If you can find a blog that quotes that exact text with those exact words bolded, it was ripped from this post. But, frankly, I doubt you found such a blog. If so, please post the link here to show that you're not just making stuff up.

So far as　your second paragraph, you simply deny the relevance of history - "this time its different." I really have no rebuttal for that one, as it's an assumption, and one that's not very well supported. Sure, many things are different, but not the essence of human nature and politics - that won't change any time soon.

 

[JB Lions]

? You copied and pasted from a book?

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22In+every+large+town%2C%22+we+are+told%2C+%22the+state+became+a+powerful+employer%2C+standing+head+and+shoulders+above+the+private+industrialists%2C+who+were+in+any+case+crushed+by+taxation.%22+When+businessmen+predicted+ruin%2C+Diocletian+explained+that+the+barbarians+were+at+the+gate%2C+and+that+individual+liberty+had+to+be+shelved+until+collective+liberty+could+be+made+secure.+The+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Yhs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22When+businessmen+predicted+ruin%2C+Diocletian+explained+that+the+barbarians+were+at+the+gate%2C+and+that+individual+liberty+had+to+be+shelved+until+collective+liberty+could+be+made+secure.%22&oq=%22When+businessmen+predicted+ruin%2C+Diocletian+explained+that+the+barbarians+were+at+the+gate%2C+and+that+individual+liberty+had+to+be+shelved+until+collective+liberty+could+be+made+secure.%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=serp.12...13873.15323.1.16234.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..1.0.-MC7Dof5dNo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c4a0da1fc7364daa"]"In every large town," we are told, "the state became a powerful employer, standing head and shoulders above the private industrialists, who were in any case crushed by taxation." When businessmen predicted ruin, Diocletian explained that the barbarians were at the gate, and that individual liberty had to be shelved until collective liberty could be made secure. The - Google Search[/ame]

You notice the dates on those? Mainly April 8th - 13th dates before your copy and paste here on the 22nd.

I should have stopped responding when you said this:

"Worse, I can tell you that the US is already more communist than China, where people are actually encouraged to get rich rather than demonized."

Feel free to click the link I posted as well, yet once again: - [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices"]List of freedom indices - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Freedom House 2011
United States - free
China - not free

Economic Freedom 2011
United States - mostly free
China - mostly unfree

Press Freedom 2011
United States - satisfactory situation
China - very serious situation

Democracy Index 2011
United States - full democracy
China - authoritarian regime

So where exactly do you see China being better than the United States? United States more communist than China? Be serious.

 

[DU]

You all complain about the "govt" but what does that mean?

About 1 in 7 people in the U.S. are employed by the government.

Are you talking about your friends? The problem isn't government, it's corporate capitalism, global capitalism or low-wage capitalism - you can pick which one you think is most accurate. There is no govt but just a corporate machine that mocks Republicans and Democrats while they point fingers at each other.

The cure for all of this is environmentalism.

Not the green movement, not the pouring of money into solar panels but the realization that your capitalist idealogies are a waste of time if you're creating a cess pool to live in that you can't escape any more readily with a billion dollars than the man with a bucket of water.

That is of course if the modified marxist/socialist movement doesn't arrive first. People will be a lot less afraid of socialism once they understand the history of the labor markets.

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------

Something for all you neo-cons to think about (lyrically speaking) - might be too complicated for you though.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoekrrSSRa8"]I Wanna Know What's In It For Me - Julian Cope and the Black Sheep - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JB Lions]

And Domainace, earlier complaining about how many people got arrested in the U.S. right. Well:

"China executes more people each year than the rest of the world combined."

Ahh yeah - Human rights in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lots of goodies there.

 

[Domainace]

JB, you are being dishonest. I named the book (page numbers 59-61 for those who still read books). You're excited because the book is also quoted in blogs. So what? It's a well known book. Do you only trust obscure content? Try something other than Google someday. A library maybe. And you still haven't shown me the identical bold parts.

So far as your straw man argument that China is not better than the US, so far nobody in this thread has said otherwise. You've created an imaginary argument there as well. (And is it really such a great achievement to say that the US is better than China?)

Whether the US is more communist is a debatable point, but you've done nothing but copy and paste from various meaningless indexes to try to argue it.

Pointless to go on, really. Good luck with your future.

 

[JB Lions]

"Whether the US is more communist is a debatable point, but you've done nothing but copy and paste from various meaningless indexes to try to argue it."

No it isn't. The large star on their flag symbolizes the Communist Party. How about a map - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Communist_States.svg

See that big red? China is in there. See that little red under Florida, that would be Cuba.

So no, there is no debate on that one. At least not a successful one on your part.

"Pointless to go on, really." We found something we can agree on. If you want to think the United States is more communist than Communist China, so be it.

 

[Domainace]

According to your reasoning, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be a democracy then - because it says so in their name.