NP$ System Revaluation - Important

[RJ]

Just wanted to make a thread here to make sure everyone's seen the NP$ announcement here:

http://www.namepros.com/namepros-info-and-suggestions-announcements.html

I noticed it didn't allow for comments when I posted it as a forum announcement.

Discuss here if you want!

RJ

 

[mwzd]

The last 4000np$ I purchased before the update were at 0.015, and there were quite a few such transactions in the recent past at this price point.

NP Bank supported the np$ price only at 0.012, so technically, any exchange could have been done at that rate too. I think its been done at a fair exchange rate.

Granted that 2np$ sounds better than 3c, but thats exactly what it is. And without an artificial 'exchange rate', the n$ is automatically pegged to the dollar. People can still continue to buy/sell at whatever rate they think is correct.

 

[Eric]

The announcement concerning the change was made two weeks in advance.

NamePros.Com - Announcements in Forum : NamePros Info & Suggestions

This announcement was also "global" (in all forums) right up until the upgrade started.

 

[RJ]

Value isn't fixed. You can sell your 20 N$ balance for $20 USD, $15 USD, or $25 USD if you feel like it. The rate that it was converted at does not really even matter, the market will determine their value. Since every NP$ in the system was converted, nobody lost value. $.017/NP$ was the going rate on the exchange. In the past month there were more transactions for that rate and less than there were for more.

We do have this in our FAQ (and have for the past 5 years): You can also buy or sell NameBucks from the bank at any time at the posted rates. The bank rates are stable and will not change without a minimum 10 days posted notice. Rates provided by the bank for buying and selling are at the high and low ends of the value and are set to provide and guarantee a range of value for NameBucks. You can exchange your NameBucks at the current market rate by buying and selling with other members.

We had an announcement posted in every forum on NamePros entitled "IMPORTANT NP$ revaluation". Discussion thread was open in the NP Info and suggestion forum for two weeks before the revaluation happened.

IMHO the NP$ system was broken. This was a step towards fixing it.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

If you accidentally sent too much to someone, message me and I will help you work it out with the other party.

 

[Ross]

I really do like the dollar to the N$ thing. I just do not think people saw this coming and a lot of people do not even read announcements ect. I was talking to someone when that 3000aDayDomainer skin was on and they had no idea what it was or even cared to find out. IMO, the rate should have just stayed the same but still converted, this way there would have been no problems or this long thread. I'm not the owner though or a decision maker, i am sure whatever RJ and Rachel decide to do with the site will benefit in the long run.

 

[Pred]

We had an announcement posted in every forum on NamePros entitled "IMPORTANT NP$ revaluation".

Never saw it
why not send everyone a pm?
would have been a lot simpler
arses covered also

also, the link at top and sentence is misleading
it says

NamePros Is Undergoing an Upgrade! - For an explanation of NP balances, click here

many people seeing are going to ignore or think, well yes i know np is going through an upgrade, and i know about np values etc, been a member years

if i saw i must have thought that

add to that as i explained on the right hand side, which even i cant miss, every day it has said same thing and still says same thing:

From the development team: The following services are offline or nonfunctioning at this time:

1. NP$ / NP Balance
2. NP$ Domain Management
3. NP Clicks
4. Highlighted Threads
5. Charity Ribbons

We hope to have these services available again by the end of Friday.

which is factually incorrect and leads you to believe your np$ arent functioning, so the few you have knocking around are from posting
certainly in my case
i thought all gets fixed and np$ replenished friday pm. thats what it says if you read it

Discussion thread was open in the NP Info and suggestion forum for two weeks before the revaluation happened.

all due respect RJ, i have been a member here a few years now, got an embarassing number of posts :red: :blink and never been in this section, let alone posted

i would suggest the vast majority of the 20 - 30,000 members are the same




onto the conversion thing
it's gonna be such a pain to like pay people 0.04 np$ instead of 2np$ etc
and there's going to be so many errors
people sending 0.4 instead of 0.04 etc

and that's just the start


think theres going to be a lot of fallout on this. even if its just mountains of problem pms to deal with
im sure the right intentions were/are meant and looking now there are links everywhere but poorly worded and also conflicting/ ambiguos info as i quoted above

 

[samuelhr]

I do think some members are rightfully feeling stitched up, but it's a change you opted to make. The problem with the change is, as rightly said, you're changing an entire system. Also, the system worked perfectly before. I'd rather send someone 10NP$ for performing an action than 0.20NP$. It seems like we're sending trivial amounts now. If you're going to switch NP$ to match IRL $, then you may as well rename it.

I also suggest you do PM everybody, I'm sure there are people who aren't aware of this and have now sent large amounts, when they meant to send minimal amounts. A global announcement is useless, I rarely take notice.

NP$ worked because it was it's own system, now it's not. Where's the satisfaction in seeing "NP Balance: 2.54"? It was perfect before, 200NP$ felt good more than anything.

 

[RJ]

We did rename it, from NP$ to "NP Balance". I'll see if I can make it more distinctive.

As for the "feel good" aspect of receiving hundreds of NP$ in payment versus an equal but lower sounding value in real money -- how do you put a value on that?

We are going to be offering real services at NamePros shortly. You'll be able to purchase services like advertising and domain names instantly using your NP Balance. If we revaluated at a higher rate, your balance might look more impressive, but the buying power of it would be no different because our services would cost more.

If we introduced NP Balance as a separate currency while keeping NP$ as-is, it would be complicating things for trivial reasons.

 

[sunken]

RJ,
A few questions/comments about the new system...

Back in the old system, NP$ worked like foreign currency with an exchange rate that varied in real time based on supply and demand. This allowed for the rate to go from 0.013 to 0.024 in the time I've been here. This fluctuation is made possible because the bank rate is always fluid based on the current market value assigned by the buyers and sellers.

The bank, from the way I read it, now defines N$ as $1. Is the bank going to be selling N$ to the members? At this rate? If so, then why would anyone want to buy from the exchange at a different rate? It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, the exchange rate would have to stay locked at a certain rate if there is to be no math conversion between N$ and the $.

Also, is NP now taking 2% of the transactions between members? I got a $1.00 donation the other day and I wound up with $0.98. Not that big a deal of course, but it would be good if the donate screen mentioned this if it's going to be the norm.

How do people get N$ now? Obviously they still can do offers and buy from the bank? Well obviously N$ paid services are targetted at those that earn N$ via the offers. Otherwise, you could just use Paypal or CC, right? So if everyone is confused and unhappy with making offers for services under the new system, then isn't that going to defeat any gain you had in making the conversion in the first place?

Just some thoughts from a humble member...

 

[RJ]

I appreciate the feedback. The 2% transaction fee was removed. There was a notice senders would see, but this is not something we're going to institute at this time.

Yes, the going NP$ rate has fluctuated up and down between .013 and .022. Is that uncertainty preferable over a dollar balance that stays at a consistent value?

 

[-Alex-]

I love the new $ system, I think it removes any sort of confusion from the system (esp. for newer members)!

High marks on the transition from me. =)

 

[RJ]

I needed to come back to this thread, it has been bothering me all night.

Let me be clear. We made no money on the revaluation. That wouldn't have been any different had we used .017 or .023 for the conversion rate.

I feel strongly that using the market rate of .017 for the conversion was the most fair compromise for NamePros and its members in transitioning to the new system. That was the true average rate that they were actively being bought and sold at over the previous two months.

If you want to look at it like I, Ron James, personally bought your NP$ from you for actual cash as it seems you're implying, then let's pretend I did so. Look at your current NamePros Account Balance and imagine it is worth exactly what it says now, in US Dollars (1:1).

I paid you $.017 for your NP$. Please explain to me why I should have paid you more than $.017 cash for your NP$.

From my perspective, I've bought all this NP$ from you in full at the current market price, the transaction was done instantly, no one incurred any PayPal fees, nobody wasted time dealing with a seller or worrying about chargebacks or anything else.

Is your whole reason for wanting me to pay everyone a premium rate for their NP$ is just to have me be altruistic? If so, why?

If you forced me to pay $.02 for your NP$ wouldn't I be the one being ripped off? $.02 is what NP$ were worth on a good day. It's not what they were worth on April 30th. People plainly admit this when they say that they wanted $.02 because they intended to hold them until they appreciated back to previous rates.

"If it's not broke, don't fix it." -- If I hear that one more time I'm seriously going to jump off a cliff. Our site has lost money hand over fist the past eight months, in big part because of how the NP$ economy was being managed. How long does that have to go on before we admit something is broken and try to fix it? Do you want NamePros to succeed and grow, or would it be more enjoyable to watch if we failed?

I'm sorry you're sad that the NP$ market value was only $.017. I do want everyone to be happy so I am considering a possible valuation correction up to $.02, retroactive to your May 30 NP$ balance, in which you would receive a donation of the difference you would have been paid with the different balance. But if we do that, we would have to raise our menu prices for upcoming services too. I just don't want to do it rashly. My true intent is to keep NamePros running smoothly for everyone.

I know you might feel frustrated. I am too. I would like to ask that you bear with us at this time on the revaluation. Please let's try treating our NamePros Account Balances like they're worth what it says in USD. I have a record of how much everyone had in NP$ and DomainCredit before the upgrade. If the consensus remains that the revaluation was a bad thing, I will propose a market correction to pay you more for the NP$ that we bought from you.

Continue discussion. Thanks.

RJ

 

[d0main]

Let me be clear. We made no money on the revaluation. That wouldn't have been any different had we used .017 or .023 for the conversion rate.

RJ, that's absolutely not true and you know it.

If the exchange rate were higher, you would be liable for more services to us as users, such as more domain registrations on the NP system and more advertising services to us. So yes, it did make a difference.

I think most members here are being very fair with you, but we aren't stupid.

 

[samuelhr]

I paid you $.017 for your NP$. Please explain to me why I should have paid you more than $.017 cash for your NP$.

From my perspective, I've bought all this NP$ from you in full at the current market price, the transaction was done instantly, no one incurred any PayPal fees, nobody wasted time dealing with a seller or worrying about chargebacks or anything else.

Is your whole reason for wanting me to pay everyone a premium rate for their NP$ is just to have me be altruistic? If so, why?

If you forced me to pay $.02 for your NP$ wouldn't I be the one being ripped off? $.02 is what NP$ were worth on a good day. It's not what they were worth on April 30th. People plainly admit this when they say that they wanted $.02 because they intended to hold them until they appreciated back to previous rates.

I don't have anything 'against you' for what you did, namepros is a business and it's up to you to keep it financially stable. However, some members will (in my opinion rightly) feel stitched up. If I have a block of gold that normally sells for $1000 and I want to sell it for $1500, I'd be annoyed if someone came along and took it off me for $1000 without giving me a choice. Sure, the real value of NP$ may actually have been what you sent, but other people valued them differently. I think that was part of what made NP$ "fun", it was it's own currency and had it's own value, but if that isn't maintainable financially then it's fine what you've done, I just think you shouldn't expect everyone to be happy about it, some will feel short changed.

 

[RJ]

RJ, that's absolutely not true and you know it.

If the exchange rate were higher, you would be liable for more services to us as users, such as more domain registrations on the NP system and more advertising services to us. So yes, it did make a difference.

I think most members here are being very fair with you, but we aren't stupid.

Then maybe I'm the stupid one. You're saying I would be liable for more services like domains or advertising with a higher rate of revaluation, but you're missing the fact that we will be setting the prices of the services we offer accordingly. If I had paid you $.02 for your NP$ and but it costs twice as much to buy services from us, would you really feel richer? Not at all.

Seriously, back up your comments with some real suggestions or answers to the questions I posted. What would a fair exchange rate have been, and why?

 

[-NC-]

IMHO:
- The new system is good because it is much clearer
- There were adequate warnings and notices
- Not even government backed currencies are stable in value. If you are upset to discover that NP$ was not as stable as USD, well... ...now it is directly linked??? So, you're happy now, right?

 

[Billidn]

Reading thru Ron's reasons for the change, the new system makes good business sense for the long run.

 

[sufi]

Initially I was also not liking the change but after going through the views of Ron and also other members, I must say that it is a great decision for a way better NamePros in coming future years. Go RJ!!

 

[rikii]

The change doesn't really make much difference to me but I feel sorry for the people who bought NP$ before the change, they bought it at 0.02/0.019 and now it's only worth 0.017

 

[NetOctave]

You should have atleast changed the Currency name... Maybe something like NpqDollar - Since NP queen is in charge now. This would have avoided lots of confusion....

 

[FreshAvails.com]

I don't have an issue with the change. I chalk it up to the price for improvement. I am eager to get the show on the road and take advantage of the services we will be able to get for our NP$. This is a good thing, you are allowed to be upset but you also need to move on. Noone said that your previous NP$ would be worth anything when you bought them (if you bought them)You will still have the chance to buy these new NP$ at a discount from sellers who want instant cash and make up whatever diference you think you have missed out on. Everyone just calm down and lets let this change happen.

 

[Ross]

You will still have the chance to buy these new NP$ at a discount from sellers who want instant cash and make up whatever diference you think you have missed out on. Everyone just calm down and lets let this change happen.

The new NP$ is equal to USD, there is no difference and everyone is going to want that going rate going forward. This was something that made the old system kind of nice, you could sell at any rate you wanted. This system you are only going to get what it says and you are only going to sell for what it says.

IMO, this change makes things super simple. If you want to buy something for $1 then you send one $1. Before you were sending 50NP$(old rate), which feels nice but its almost unneeded when you are dealing with business transactions frequently through namepros.

I think the thing most people are upset about is the rate of change. If the original set of .02 rate had been converted i really do not think anyone would have complained at all. I really god to honest do not care but then again i only had a dollar in NP$ when the change was made.

 

[sunken]

I appreciate the feedback. The 2% transaction fee was removed. There was a notice senders would see, but this is not something we're going to institute at this time.

Yes, the going NP$ rate has fluctuated up and down between .013 and .022. Is that uncertainty preferable over a dollar balance that stays at a consistent value?

Thanks for the clarification on the transaction fee.

Actually the dollar balance is dependant on how the new exchange works. If the bank is selling at N$ = $1 always, then the exchange rate will have to be lower. Otherwise there is no reason to buy from a seller versus the bank. The difference now is that since there is a ceiling, selling at 0.98 one transaction can't be balanced out by selling at 1.02 later on. So the sellers will always lose money versus the balance on cashout to compete with the bank.

Am I understanding this correctly?

No one wants to see NP fail certainly. If you feel that the new system keeps NP afloat, then it's certainly a change you need to make. However, we are just trying to understand the new reality, so that we can adjust accordingly.

Thanks.

---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

The new NP$ is equal to USD, there is no difference and everyone is going to want that going rate going forward. This was something that made the old system kind of nice, you could sell at any rate you wanted. This system you are only going to get what it says and you are only going to sell for what it says.

If this is true, then how will sellers compete with the bank or with eachother for that matter?

 

[equity78]

It could be looked at like this, NP was losing a lot of money, what is your NP$ worth if RJ said, "I am sorry I have a wife and children and can no longer lose money so I am closing Namepros.com and moving on to a more rewarding venture, take care have a nice life." NP$ new conversion rate 0

RJ is a great guy and did not come public with how bad Namepros was doing because he has pride in himself and his site. If people knew how bad NP was doing they would understand a change had to be made. Again IMO

 

[Ross]

If this is true, then how will sellers compete with the bank or with eachother for that matter?

IMO, you do not. When you buy the NP$ now you are just putting money in to system just as if it was your PayPal balance. You do not go to walmart online and say that your dollar is worth more than the product itself do you?

 

[sunken]

IMO, you do not. When you buy the NP$ now you are just putting money in to system just as if it was your PayPal balance. You do not go to walmart online and say that your dollar is worth more than the product itself do you?

Okay, you don't. Then back to the question. How then does one sell the N$ they have earned? If sellers are locked at the same rate as the bank, and the bank is inherently safer to buy from, then how does anyone sell their N$? Or is the intent to just use N$ only for NP Services and no longer to cash out via Paypal?