advice Advice on getting control of company related domains

[itdirector]

Hello. Apologies in advance for not being knowledgeable in this area and using the incorrect terms. I started a year ago at a family run company which has 150m in revenue and has been around for 50 years. The original name for the company is three words, two and then the thing we do. Say for example Happy Tree Landscaping. We are almost exclusively a B2B company so we're not well known to the public and our social and web presence is very small despite us having very high profile customers. Our website runs on what would be the equivalent of htlandscaping.net. We don't own the equivalent .com, never have as far as I know. We also own the full name of the company .com but it's not in use.

I came across some emails from my predecessor and the owners where they were discussing trying to get the .com as well as the equivalent of HappyTreeGroup.com, since the company has purchased other companies over the years and use this term as an umbrella. This name is utilized as our Linkedin page for example. I don't know if Happy Tree Group is trademarked, probably not. I know that about a year ago my predecessor tried to have godaddy negotiate for the domains on our behalf but there was no response from the seller. I can see that as of today, the .com and the group are owned by hugedomains/namebright and they are asking for 9k and 3k respectively. I know for certain the company will never pay the 9k but the 3k might be possible.

In simplified terms, is there any reasonable expectation that my company would have a legitimate legal claim to htlandscaping.com, does it matter that we have been using the .net for ~20 years? I think even more so the company does want to acquire the HappyTreeGroup.com - should I advise them just to pay and not risk the company researching us and raising the price even higher? Would attorney and other fees wind up being close to or more than the 3K they are asking to begin with?

Thank you

 

[D Haynes]

 

[D Haynes]

Essentially you would need to prove the domains had been registered to profit from your business and its reputation.

HugeDomains have an incredible amount of names and most likely will have delt with hundreds of UDRP cases so unless it's a slam dunk it's probably cheaper to pay the money.

There is a lot of information to be found about UDRPs on this forum.

 

[Jv1999]

Filing a udrp costs $1k. The lawyer fees, more.

Although would be nice to see HD getting udrp'd ^^

It depends also if the name is generic...

Three words: JohnSmithLandscaping is very generic. But still winnable

 

[cooljub]

Hi,
Generally the chances of being able to take the name become less the more people it's suitable for.
But anyway..

This 150m revenue company won't pay 9k for their exact match .com?
How much do they pay their lowest paid employee?
Would they pay 9k for a plot of land for their store?

I'd say 9k looks like a steal. Get it while you can.

 

[BaileyUK]

First of all, Huge domains isn't about to hype the price of a $9k domain just because your interested, they deal with hundreds if not thousands of buyers every year. they might do that if they get messed around. You could try negotiating with them, who knows you may get one or two thousand off the price. But I'm with Cooljub on this one. Given the turnover of the Company I would certainly think the most memorable name and the most expensive is worth talking to Hugedomains about purchasing.

Do the world wide Google search to see if any other companies are using the domain wording, probably worth checking if any other users have a TM within the same class. You don't want to be loosing the domain yourself at a later date.

If there are other companies using the term Huge domains will probably be fairly fixed on their price. Don't go into any details with HugeDomains or try to appeal with any history, just make it a simple, preferably anonymous, purchase enquiry. The domain can then simply be transferred by the buyer to the Company at a later date.

 

[DomainNature]

I think this guy is mocking us, would not be surpriced if it's AI bot generated member.

 

[itdirector]

Thanks everyone for your advice. No, I’m not a bot. The company name is generic enough that “Happy Tree Group” could apply to many different companies. As far as the UDRP, I don’t know if we would have a trademark on the shortened name - htlandscaping. The only other part that confuses me is about the bad faith part. When they decide to purchase a domain name I assume they check whether the same name is running on .net or .org and use that to partially decide whether it’s worth it. And hope that the company wants to buy the .com? We have been using the .net for 20 years.

I think I am going to continue to recommend just paying for the group account. The company does have money but is frugal with it, it is profitable but they are not flush with cash, since we are a b2b I know they would never spend 9k on a domain name.

The sad thing is unless I’m not reading it properly hugedomains only acquired them within the past year.

Thanks again

 

[D Haynes]

HugeDimains aquire a lot of name through expiry auctions using bots so it's likely someone else would have bid for the names at that time too.

You don't necessarily need a registered trade mark for a successful UDRP if you can show a registrant is profiting from your established name, i.e through parking ads targeting the same sector you operate in.

The mere registration or a fairly generic name is not usually considered bad faith. Registration of a blatant infringement (IBMcomputers.com as an example) would be.

Sometimes UDRP cases are won purely because the respondent doesn't... Well... respond but nothing is a given and when you have to worry about being found guilty or reverse domain name hijacking it's probably only advisable to attempt a UDRP when you are sure you have good grounds to do so.

Given that is sounds like the company is tight with their money they may not want to spend on legal fees anyway which can creep into the thousands pretty quickly just filing a UDRP.

 

[bmugford]

You said your company makes $150m in revenue.

Just buy the domain(s). That is the simple solution.

$9K is a very reasonable price for a meaningful .COM in 2023.

HugeDomains is a massive company that have faced many UDRP, and won the vast majority.

If you go down the legal path, you are likely to spend thousands of dollars in lawyer and UDRP fees.

Brad

 

[itdirector]

Hi,
Generally the chances of being able to take the name become less the more people it's suitable for.
But anyway..

This 150m revenue company won't pay 9k for their exact match .com?
How much do they pay their lowest paid employee?
Would they pay 9k for a plot of land for their store?

I'd say 9k looks like a steal. Get it while you can.

I will try to convince them. We do own the full original company name.com, although the website uses the initialed version - aka we own happytreelandscaping.com but our website is htlandscaping.net (cuz we don't own .com). htlandscaping.com is the one that they want 9k for.

 

[bmugford]

I will try to convince them. We do own the full original company name.com, although the website uses the initialed version - aka we own happytreelandscaping.com but our website is htlandscaping.net (cuz we don't own .com). htlandscaping.com is the one that they want 9k for.

I can't believe that a company with $150,000,000+ in revenue is stressing over spending $9,000 on a domain name. That is just crazy.

$9,000 would be 0.0006% of the revenue.

Brad

 

[biggie]

Hi

HT-Landscaping.com
HTG-Landscaping.com

both are available for registration,
better be quick before somebody snatches them

imo...

 

[itdirector]

Hi

HT-Landscaping.com
HTG-Landscaping.com

both are available for registration,
better be quick before somebody snatches them

imo...

This was just an example not the real domain names.

 

[itdirector]

I can't believe that a company with $150,000,000+ in revenue is stressing over spending $9,000 on a domain name. That is just crazy.

$9,000 would be 0.0006% of the revenue.

Brad

You aren’t wrong but at the same time you don’t understand the business, their expenses and investments. They tend to be very conservative with spend and it’s served them well for over 50 years, the business is low margin but has never lost money and never done layoffs. For them to spend over 10 grand on domain names isn’t insignificant.

 

[bmugford]

You aren’t wrong but at the same time you don’t understand the business, their expenses and investments. They tend to be very conservative with spend and it’s served them well for over 50 years, the business is low margin but has never lost money and never done layoffs. For them to spend over 10 grand on domain names isn’t insignificant.

Well, if they are not willing to spend the money then I question how important the domain really is for them.

The options are basically -

1.) Buy the domain.

2.) Don't buy the domain.

3.) Go down some legal path that will cost thousands of dollars, and probably not get the domain.

Brad

 

[henry93]

You aren’t wrong but at the same time you don’t understand the business, their expenses and investments. They tend to be very conservative with spend and it’s served them well for over 50 years, the business is low margin but has never lost money and never done layoffs. For them to spend over 10 grand on domain names isn’t insignificant.

Well, if it's a very low margin business , like dealing in commodity then it's understandable.

And it's run by family and seems like online presence is not significant.

You are not in a hurry to acquire a .com? Then, the only option left is to wait a few years or decade. If the domain gets dropped (because it's 3 word .com), you can bid on it or drop catch it. But still no guarantee coz others will still bid, as it's generic as you said.

Being into digital marketing, I would say- grow business online and built online presence. Do some online advertising and online marketing. Don't just simply get a domain, it won't add much to turnover. Also plan online advertising and sales.

 

[Maggie Mae]

Hello. Apologies in advance for not being knowledgeable in this area and using the incorrect terms. I started a year ago at a family run company which has 150m in revenue and has been around for 50 years. The original name for the company is three words, two and then the thing we do. Say for example Happy Tree Landscaping. We are almost exclusively a B2B company so we're not well known to the public and our social and web presence is very small despite us having very high profile customers. Our website runs on what would be the equivalent of htlandscaping.net. We don't own the equivalent .com, never have as far as I know. We also own the full name of the company .com but it's not in use.

I came across some emails from my predecessor and the owners where they were discussing trying to get the .com as well as the equivalent of HappyTreeGroup.com, since the company has purchased other companies over the years and use this term as an umbrella. This name is utilized as our Linkedin page for example. I don't know if Happy Tree Group is trademarked, probably not. I know that about a year ago my predecessor tried to have godaddy negotiate for the domains on our behalf but there was no response from the seller. I can see that as of today, the .com and the group are owned by hugedomains/namebright and they are asking for 9k and 3k respectively. I know for certain the company will never pay the 9k but the 3k might be possible.

In simplified terms, is there any reasonable expectation that my company would have a legitimate legal claim to htlandscaping.com, does it matter that we have been using the .net for ~20 years? I think even more so the company does want to acquire the HappyTreeGroup.com - should I advise them just to pay and not risk the company researching us and raising the price even higher? Would attorney and other fees wind up being close to or more than the 3K they are asking to begin with?

Thank you

You might present to them the value of the domains and potential for lost revenue should a competitor (or company they do not wish to be associated with) purchase them, or just lost traffic. A brief that shows them why the two domains have more value than the $12k purchase price.

I understand the mindset of the company having worked for a similar one; they may think "we're doing find with .net, afterall we're a $150m company" - but, seeing the value of long term revenue potential may make a difference in how they see the domains. Can you show them how quickly they can recoup the $12k and increase profits with them?

They are blessed to have you so dedicated and caring about their brand! I think they should also give you a bonus!

 

[Kai W.]

You aren’t wrong but at the same time you don’t understand the business, their expenses and investments. They tend to be very conservative with spend and it’s served them well for over 50 years, the business is low margin but has never lost money and never done layoffs. For them to spend over 10 grand on domain names isn’t insignificant.

Simply proving that owning .net for 20 years and assuming that .com is registered for use in bad faith doesn't provide a strong guarantee of winning a UDRP
But your situation is indeed common, I've met clients in traditional industries who were even surprised at the 1000 asking price. It's understandable, in the times they lived through, it took more effort to reach the same profit.
Perhaps you could consider comparing the acquisition cost of the domain to the cost of branding to convince your boss to finish paying 9k. or you could consider building a sub-brand from scratch. But regardless of plan b, plan c. Acquiring it outright will be the easiest and most effective plan.

 

[DomainNature]

I know why most end users react in such a way, because I remember me when searching to register a domain for my website, i was looking at (itesla,com) I not remember how much the owner was asking for it, but i was shocked at that time by the price, that was the moment when I knew that I will get into domains.
This happens because end users are not educated into domaining, I think we have to bring them more awareness to them, on why domains are valued like cars, houses and yachts.
For them a domain is just an URL that should cost reg fee.

 

[pablohc86]

so .com is not important but they want to own the .com and they don't want to pay for it just because a domain name can be purchased for 10$..
a story already heard.
sorry for appearing rude

 

[Brian L.]

Hugedomains will usually do a 24 month payment plan, with no interest. Perhaps $375 a month would sound more reasonable to your leadership.

 

[itdirector]

Thank you to everyone for the comments. So here is an update:

I purchased the "Happy Tree Group" domain outright for the 3K. I told the owners it was possible that upon researching our company they would raise the price. They really wanted the group .com domain as the company is buying more brands so I got approval. They are actually really happy about it. The 9k for the "Happy Tree Landscaping".com is still out of the question though, but I got approval to try whatever tactics I thought possible to see what they would negotiate down to. We really don't need it, but would like it. If they decide to not negotiate or even raise the price beyond 9k we will just pass.

As best I can tell namebright/hugedomains has held this domain since 2014. I've tried a few free domain evaluation websites and at max they say the domain is worth $2,000. Most say much less. If we could get the domain for the same 2-3k then they would probably do it. Any suggestions on next steps? Prior to me joining the company I believe they tried this domain through godaddy purchasing services but namebright never responded?

 

[bmugford]

Thank you to everyone for the comments. So here is an update:

I purchased the "Happy Tree Group" domain outright for the 3K. I told the owners it was possible that upon researching our company they would raise the price. They really wanted the group .com domain as the company is buying more brands so I got approval. They are actually really happy about it. The 9k for the "Happy Tree Landscaping".com is still out of the question though, but I got approval to try whatever tactics I thought possible to see what they would negotiate down to. We really don't need it, but would like it. If they decide to not negotiate or even raise the price beyond 9k we will just pass.

As best I can tell namebright/hugedomains has held this domain since 2014. I've tried a few free domain evaluation websites and at max they say the domain is worth $2,000. Most say much less. If we could get the domain for the same 2-3k then they would probably do it. Any suggestions on next steps? Prior to me joining the company I believe they tried this domain through godaddy purchasing services but namebright never responded?

Automated domain appraisals really don't mean much.

Domain values are highly subjective and it really depends on the buyer, seller, and potential usage.

Getting the domain you really wanted for $3K was probably a good score.

The Huge Domains FAQ says the following -

https://www.hugedomains.com/faq.cfm

Can I make an offer on the domain?

We do negotiate on our domains. If you would like to make an offer on the domain, please send an email to [email protected], use our contact us page, or call us at 303-893-0552.
HugeDomains will always consider your offer; however, our pricing may or may not be negotiable depending upon the domain. The value of a domain is based on a number of factors including, but not limited to comparable sales, the length of the domain, and popularity of the domain keywords.

However, in my experience they are not willing to negotiate much on price.

I would just offer what you are willing to pay, and if they don't accept it move on.

Brad

 

[itdirector]

Automated domain appraisals really don't mean much.

Domain values are highly subjective and it really depends on the buyer, seller, and potential usage.

Getting the domain you really wanted for $3K was probably a good score.

The Huge Domains FAQ says the following -



Caing, but not limited to comparable sales, the length of the domain, and popularity of the domain keywords.

However, in my experience they are not willing to negotiate much on price.

I would just offer what you are willing to pay, and if they don't accept it move on.

Brad

Thanks Brad. So they would just hold the domain for what, another 10 years? I really can't see that anyone else in our industry coming along and buying it, especially not for 9 grand. Do you happen to know who makes the final decision on negotiating down? Is it the person you first speak to on the phone or do they have to go back and talk to "the boss", etc?