"Define Legit Traffic"

Hi all,

I'd just like to offer some insight into what we (Fabulous.com) consider to be high quality traffic and what traffic is considered low quality or suspect.

The best quality traffic on the internet is "Primary Traffic". In order for traffic to be primary it required that the user types something using the keyboard. A user has an original thought like "I needs some tools" and they live in Houston. They then type either "houston tools" in a search engine or houstontools.com into an address bar. The user is having an original thought that is actioned without being enticed by an offer of reward or having ads pushed at them.

When a user clicks on links, gets a SPAM e-mail, has a banner pushed at them and is tricked into clicking the traffic is NOT primary traffic.

We can further classify this traffic as either generic or brandable intent :

Generic Intent: The houstontools.com domain can also be used as an example of a domain with generic intent. The user actions an original thought for a generic product, service or information. They want tools in Houston and the intent is generic in nature and clear. The user has primarily qualified themselves to have a strong interest in a particular product or service and therefore, given relevant ads/listings are available the likelihood of click through, leading to purchase is greatly increased.

Branded Intent: This is when a user has typed in a domain expecting to find a specific business or product they already know and make a mistake in finding it. An example of this would be microsof.com, mysonyproductsonline.com, or xo55het.com. These domains are representative of either trademark infringement, typographical error or unsensical traffic. It is apparent that the user either didn't know what they wanted or are not getting what they expected. These domains produce large quantities of traffic with a very low conversion rate for the advertiser.

To further illustrate the difference; let’s say someone wants to buy a new computer, so they type www.computers.com directly into their address bar of their browser. This is an example of direct navigation with generic intent. On the other hand, if they were to type in www.Dell.com this would be direct navigation with brandable intent.

As such, we have found that commercial English language .com domains (those that consist of two-three word generic keyterm/phrases) with generic intent type-in value yield the best result for the advertiser. They also are the domains that are accepted into and produce the best revenue for the affiliate in the Fabulous.com 4.0 program.

What is unacceptable traffic?

Forms of traffic that are generated by, but are not limited to:
- redirection of one domain name to another
- hyperlinks to other domain names
- email messages
- newsgroups
- message boards / forums / chat rooms / guest books
- banner network
- incentivized / paid to click

All mediums mentioned above have the ability to generate high volumes of traffic, yet because it may be forced, misleading, basically of an un-natural or questionable disposition, the quality is dramatically reduced. In effect, most instances result in the publishers reducing advertising expenditure, lowering PPC, thus offering a lower PPC to all affiliates involved.

This traffic is unacceptable for monetizing via Fabulous.com and anyone whose domains receive traffic from these sources should consider another program.

Chers,

Mike
Fabulous.com

Mike,

Thank you for clarifying the Fabulous position on this highly debated topic.

We appreciate the time spent by you coming forward to help us out.

Peace,
Cy

Excellent Information..Mike....Thank You for establishing Fabulous.com...Position on this topic.

I am hoping to see more Reps from parking services post in this thread, I think they will

Thanks mike for speaking your position where are Sedo and others?

slim said:

Thanks mike for speaking your position where are Sedo and others?

Click to expand...

Hopefuly they will make a presence in this discussion.

If "Badger" could touch base = 1Plus.net and the upcoming iModo.com

A Rep from Bodis.com

While we await other parking company Reps to join in, That would be great!

Mike Fabulous said:

Hi all,

I'd just like to offer some insight into what we (Fabulous.com) consider to be high quality traffic and what traffic is considered low quality or suspect.

[...]

What is unacceptable traffic?

Forms of traffic that are generated by, but are not limited to:
[...]
- newsgroups
- message boards / forums / chat rooms
[...]
All mediums mentioned above have the ability to generate high volumes of traffic,

[...]

This traffic is unacceptable for monetizing via Fabulous.com and anyone whose domains receive traffic from these sources should consider another program.

Chers,

Mike
Fabulous.com

Click to expand...

Hi, Mike:

I appreciate your input.

Just for further discussion on this important topic, let me share my personal experience a bit here:

I seek out and buy most products and services only after reading the messages that discuss or debate them, posted typically in forums and newsgroups, message boards, etc. While it is possible that hypesters may tout certain brands, they are rather easily detected, and are often quickly corrected/criticized by other discussion participants, who will usually suggest better alternatives and give reasons why.

For example, here at NamePros, I learned about Bodis.Com from the thread that discussed about it. I've not used Parked.Com, but my review of the messages shows that it is probably worth checking into in the future. I also read very positive reviews and opinions, which I have no doubt are sincere and true, about Fabulous.Com, and so on.

Most of the time, when someone recommends a product or service, I usually google the relevant keyword(s), not for immediate purchase, but to see if there are shortcomings, and more importantly, if there is something better out there. So forums, message boards, newsgroups are extremely important as sources of information for user feedback and my buying decisions. More than half of the time, I end up finding worthy alternatives that should also be evaluated before I make my final decision.

Therefore, to think that traffic from mentions in messages are inferior is probably not quite correct, at least not in my case. When Brand A is favorably mentioned, my first question is whether there is something better. So I may not visit Brand A at all, but will look for discussions of Brand A and specifically for situations where an allegedly better Brand B will be mentioned. Of course, there may or may not be a better Brand B, and so I may end up buying Brand A, or sometimes I'll buy both A and B (e.g. anti-virus software) because I find features I like in both that are not in the other.

Thus, I would consider such resultant traffic from intelligent discussions of a certain product or service, and its competitors and alternatives, to be the most valuable for a merchant, because it is the traffic of very serious, intelligent buyers who are all ready to buy, but just want to be sure they are making the right buying decisions. And when they do finally click on the links to Brand A or Brand B, they're essentially ready to place the orders.

NP

NP41215 said:

What I am leading up to is whether one can mention on his website, A, about another website B, as long as the URL for B is not clickable?

Click to expand...

My totally unqualified oppinion is that this would be promoting a brand rather than directing traffic. As such anyone who goes to the trouble to type it in really wants to see that second domain. (though I suspect they probably wouldn't if they knew it was full of ads) However where you'll run into trouble is by offering incentive or tricking people into thinking they will find something at that second domain.

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As to the idea of parking a stock market site on the weekends: Its a clever analogy but not practical. You would make far more income by putting non parking based ads on the site and keeping it live on the weekends. Remeber that in all but the rarest of cases the parking company keeps most of your revenue. If you're going to spend the effort to build a site why share the money?

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.X. said:

I'd say your are wrong, Do your domains get typin traffic, and i don't mean names that have been fed and raised already, newly regged names? And with that being said, How do you purpose to get traffic to those new names?

I think Donny made his position clear on the use of adwords with Parking.com , It is there TOS, Perhaps they have changed it, But have not posted the revised TOS...none the less, He made it clear.

Click to expand...

I have about a dozen names that don't get any traffic. They don't make any money from parking, and rightfully so. I bought them because I like the names and I plan to develop them.

I also have about a dozen names that get good traffic and none of it ever came from bieng advertised. I have payed good money for these domains. Some upwards of $1000. I bought them because they really are good names. They get traffic on their own without advertisement. Mostly they are foreign language dictionary terms. I know dot com dictionary words are out of most peoples reach.

My whole point here is that parking is intended for people who have genuinely good domains to have a way to monetize the natural traffic they recieve. It isn't intended for people who have average or worse names to scam advertising companies.

blaknite said:

My totally unqualified oppinion is that this would be promoting a brand rather than directing traffic. As such anyone who goes to the trouble to type it in really wants to see that second domain. (though I suspect they probably wouldn't if they knew it was full of ads) However where you'll run into trouble is by offering incentive or tricking people into thinking they will find something at that second domain.

--------

As to the idea of parking a stock market site on the weekends: Its a clever analogy but not practical. You would make far more income by putting non parking based ads on the site and keeping it live on the weekends. Remeber that in all but the rarest of cases the parking company keeps most of your revenue. If you're going to spend the effort to build a site why share the money?

-----



I have about a dozen names that don't get any traffic. They don't make any money from parking, and rightfully so. I bought them because I like the names and I plan to develop them.

I also have about a dozen names that get good traffic and none of it ever came from bieng advertised. I have payed good money for these domains. Some upwards of $1000. I bought them because they really are good names. They get traffic on their own without advertisement. Mostly they are foreign language dictionary terms. I know dot com dictionary words are out of most peoples reach.

My whole point here is that parking is intended for people who have genuinely good domains to have a way to monetize the natural traffic they recieve. It isn't intended for people who have average or worse names to scam advertising companies.

Click to expand...

So the names you purchased for as much as $1,000 have traffic, That is understandable, But those names were new borns at one time themselves, Therefor they had to be raised and nurtured, Just as any new domain does, The methods used, Differ from person to person, I myself, I verify all my names with google, Get them site mapped, They are crawled monthly, And get indexed in googles search engine, I also submit my names to atleast 1000 PR4 to PR6 web directories, That brings nice traffic, doing the above, But i also use certain methods to drive more traffic to my names, As i have said, it took me a year to reserach and test these methods, Not to mention the cash i spent while i was testing, The methods bring 100% quality traffic to my names, There is absolutley no incentive for a person that visits my names, i target my traffic to come from the USA and Canada only, This meets the requirments of the majority of ad publishers, as well a domain parking services. I do understand where you are coming from, But in my case, My traffic is not scamming anyone, It is 100% legitimate, monetized traffic, That vists my names because of the specific niche, therefore they are looking for what i have to offer.

From a parking standpoint, legit traffic:

- Type-ins

- Pre-existing link traffic (aka from links made to the existing site prior to purchase/parking - this includes directories and paid links again only if they're pre-existing, but NOT traffic exchanges under any circumstances)

- SE traffic, with paid SERPs allowed only again if it's pre-existing (no paying for SERPs to get traffic into a parked domain)

NOT legit traffic:

- Bot traffic, anything non-human

- Paid-for traffic via places like EasySiteHits and other traffic vendors

- Traffic exchanges and any links that encourage people to click links on the ensuing page

- Paid-for SERPs AFTER parking and any links made AFTER parking, as IMO links made are to be intended to lead people to a website...you are not supposed to lead people to a parked page

- ANY traffic achieved from advertising - online or offline. I've spoken with someone before who primarily made his parking revenue frmo advertising his names in the newspaper. Needless to say, his names were all crappy 3-word loan .info names and I only talked to him once.

Not sure if that covers everything, but it's what I could think of off the top of my head.

NameTrader.com said:

From a parking standpoint, legit traffic:

- Type-ins

- Pre-existing link traffic (aka from links made to the existing site prior to purchase/parking - this includes directories and paid links again only if they're pre-existing, but NOT traffic exchanges under any circumstances)

Click to expand...

Then there is a loophole in this system. That says a person can make a website market it, build links and then park it.

I agree with your comments but can someone also comment on that loophole.

Thanks.

NP41215 said:

Thus, I would consider such resultant traffic from intelligent discussions of a certain product or service, and its competitors and alternatives, to be the most valuable for a merchant, because it is the traffic of very serious, intelligent buyers who are all ready to buy, but just want to be sure they are making the right buying decisions. And when they do finally click on the links to Brand A or Brand B, they're essentially ready to place the orders.

NP

Click to expand...

Remember the context of his post. If someone has a parked page and is in general advertising the page in ANY way, that's not legit traffic. He's getting people to a page with the intention of getting money for their clicks - which is AOK for a developed website, but not for a parked page. A parked page is not a brand because it is not unique...the domain may be unique, but there is no content and the ensuing links lead to sites owned by different companies.

Trust me, the forms of advertising you mentioned are definitely good and valuable. I remember back when mp3.com was a huge message forum after being purchased by CNet (leading up to its current form), I used to post messages in a bunch of discussions, messages relevant to those discussions, and would leave a link to my own personal music site in the sig (back then, I composed MIDI music a lot and wanted people to hear it). I do that here too with NameTrader.com except that I'm in this industry and contribute to this board, and there I truly had no interest in the discussions, was merely feigning it and getting my music site out there. I got my site up to 200,000 Alexa at the time with hundreds of hits a day on the counter. Ironically, not a single one of them commented really on the music, but it got traffic to the site with minimal work and no money. I'm convinced similar methods of attack to bring in visitors can be done for just about anything as people will visit your sig link out of curiosity. Still, it's definitely not a condoned way to get traffic to a parked site, and the keyword there is "get". Once your name is parked, you should not be "getting" traffic to it in any way, shape, or form really.

Part of that stems from the same reason why we can't post links to Sedo or other domain sites with affiliate codes. On one hand, we may truly be recommending the site, but the affiliate code can just as easily make it mean that you're just trying to get people in the door so you get money. A parked page is no different.

-Nick- said:

Then there is a loophole in this system. That says a person can make a website market it, build links and then park it.

I agree with your comments but can someone also comment on that loophole.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's unfortunately the case, and I don't know of any way to protect against that. Case in point, it happens with proxy sites all the time. People make them, build traffic to them, then park them and sell them here or on DNF with the traffic unsteady as hell and dwindling, probably down to nothing in just a few months. I regularly see people on DNF selling Turkish traffic sites where they seemed to in a matter of days get a site up and high enough SERPs to get thousands of visitors a day of SE traffic. Then they park the name and sell it based mostly on the traffic vs. whatever revenue they make because they're generally not making much in parking (even with Sedo it's hard to monetize Turkish traffic) and it's SE traffic that will vanish entirely in a couple months or less.

Still, the unfortunate part about it is that while parking companies ideally don't want that traffic, they generally accept that traffic because it's hard to tell it apart from traffic on an expired domain for instance, and could you fault someone for getting an expired name, parking it, and enjoying the benefits of whatever traffic it contains?

"Legit traffic" is all about using common sense - thats all.

And its no wonder that the root feed providers look for syndication partners to field this kind of stuff. Its a continuous feast of domainers looking to twist, bend, pump, dump, drive and click their usually crud domains.

My take on parking (and the one i use for my domains) is literally park it and leave it alone, including even visiting the page. Thats it. Any real person who finds their way to your domain and goes on to click an ad is a "legit click". If you had any hand in them getting there, aside from [g]arbritrage, then its not legit.

NameTrader.com said:

Remember the context of his post. If someone has a parked page and is in general advertising the page in ANY way, that's not legit traffic. He's getting people to a page with the intention of getting money for their clicks - which is AOK for a developed website, but not for a parked page. A parked page is not a brand because it is not unique...the domain may be unique, but there is no content and the ensuing links lead to sites owned by different companies.

Trust me, the forms of advertising you mentioned are definitely good and valuable. I remember back when mp3.com was a huge message forum after being purchased by CNet (leading up to its current form), I used to post messages in a bunch of discussions, messages relevant to those discussions, and would leave a link to my own personal music site in the sig (back then, I composed MIDI music a lot and wanted people to hear it). I do that here too with NameTrader.com except that I'm in this industry and contribute to this board, and there I truly had no interest in the discussions, was merely feigning it and getting my music site out there. I got my site up to 200,000 Alexa at the time with hundreds of hits a day on the counter. Ironically, not a single one of them commented really on the music, but it got traffic to the site with minimal work and no money. I'm convinced similar methods of attack to bring in visitors can be done for just about anything as people will visit your sig link out of curiosity. Still, it's definitely not a condoned way to get traffic to a parked site, and the keyword there is "get". Once your name is parked, you should not be "getting" traffic to it in any way, shape, or form really.

Part of that stems from the same reason why we can't post links to Sedo or other domain sites with affiliate codes. On one hand, we may truly be recommending the site, but the affiliate code can just as easily make it mean that you're just trying to get people in the door so you get money. A parked page is no different.



Yes, that's unfortunately the case, and I don't know of any way to protect against that. Case in point, it happens with proxy sites all the time. People make them, build traffic to them, then park them and sell them here or on DNF with the traffic unsteady as hell and dwindling, probably down to nothing in just a few months. I regularly see people on DNF selling Turkish traffic sites where they seemed to in a matter of days get a site up and high enough SERPs to get thousands of visitors a day of SE traffic. Then they park the name and sell it based mostly on the traffic vs. whatever revenue they make because they're generally not making much in parking (even with Sedo it's hard to monetize Turkish traffic) and it's SE traffic that will vanish entirely in a couple months or less.

Still, the unfortunate part about it is that while parking companies ideally don't want that traffic, they generally accept that traffic because it's hard to tell it apart from traffic on an expired domain for instance, and could you fault someone for getting an expired name, parking it, and enjoying the benefits of whatever traffic it contains?

Click to expand...

If a person should park a name, And not do a thing, Meaning ethical means of driving traffic to it, Then what is the point of parking the domain in the first place? And what is the need for for all these different parking companies? We only need one, if we are just allowed to park the name, and use NO method of driving traffic to it at ALL, imo , If that is the case, The Park and do nothing theory, Then who needs Domain Parking, The fact is, Domain Parking companies needs us, As bad as we need them,If not worse, They are the one making the big money, With out the domainer, They have nothing, And i could careless about all the political BS, I wont even consider parking with those companies who dish that out, It's business , The Parking company that meet my needs, Is the one who gets my business.

I don't personally consider my methods of driving traffic to my names "arbritrage" ..and here is why.... The way people find my names, Comes from within many web directories , for the most part, Yes, I do pay a very low cost per click, But not to the site vistor, I pay the search engines that provide my name in thier directories, NO one has to click my names, They are indexed just like any other, The vistors choose to, Because they are looking for the niche that i have to offer, Once on my page, It is totally up to the vistor, Rather they click a link or not, with that said..i don't how much more quality targeted traffic a parking company could ask for, The vistor is on my page because they are interested in that specific niche, That can convert to sales for the advertiser easily, If what they have is something the visitor would like to purchase.

Badger said:

"Legit traffic" is all about using common sense - thats all.

And its no wonder that the root feed providers look for syndication partners to field this kind of stuff. Its a continuous feast of domainers looking to twist, bend, pump, dump, drive and click their usually crud domains.

My take on parking (and the one i use for my domains) is literally park it and leave it alone, including even visiting the page. Thats it. Any real person who finds their way to your domain and goes on to click an ad is a "legit click". If you had any hand in them getting there, aside from [g]arbritrage, then its not legit.

Click to expand...

Can you please elaborate a little more, Is my method above, acceptable to iModo.com ?

Here is what I sum it up.

NameTrader.com said:

From a parking standpoint, legit traffic:
- Type-ins
- Pre-existing link traffic (aka from links made to the existing site prior to purchase/parking - this includes directories and paid links again only if they're pre-existing, but NOT traffic exchanges under any circumstances)

Click to expand...

Badger said:

"Legit traffic" is all about using common sense - thats all.

If you had any hand in them getting there, aside from [g]arbritrage, then its not legit.

Click to expand...

- So if you just have a website that is having links it is all right.
- If you don't have that kind of website then making that kind of website is not illegal but unethical, if you are planning to park it afterwards.
- But in real many of us might have done this before unknowingly. Like we developed some site then didn't earned revenue as we thought it would then we usually park it.
- So doing it knowingly is only unethical. :D
- And what about doing it unknowingly as a knowingly?

-Nick- said:

Here is what I sum it up.



- So if you just have a website that is having links it is all right.
- If you don't have that kind of website then making that kind of website is not illegal but unethical, if you are planning to park it afterwards.
- But in real many of us might have done this before unknowingly. Like we developed some site then didn't earned revenue as we thought it would then we usually park it.
- So doing it knowingly is only unethical. :D
- And what about doing it unknowingly as a knowingly?

Click to expand...

Good points -NICK-

My thinking is, What does it matter if a person developes a domain, Then decides to park it, What does that have to do with anything? It surely doesn't hurt the parking company, If they receive backlink-search engine traffic, It makes them money, And the traffic is pure quality legit traffic. I would do it knowingly, And in good faith, Any parking company that has a problem with that, Has problems period, And i wouldn't want to use thier service.

And if my methods are "arbritrage" Then let me be a pro "arbritrager" , Cause i don't park my domains just to let them sit there and collect dust.

-Nick- said:

- So if you just have a website that is having links it is all right.
- If you don't have that kind of website then making that kind of website is not illegal but unethical, if you are planning to park it afterwards.
- But in real many of us might have done this before unknowingly. Like we developed some site then didn't earned revenue as we thought it would then we usually park it.
- So doing it knowingly is only unethical. :D
- And what about doing it unknowingly as a knowingly?

Click to expand...

Reading your post is making me dizzy
:cy:

I think the point you're getting to is this example: "I had a web hosting site, I finished running the site and now its parked".. For me, thats fine.

And these sorts of domains with backlinks etc (although backlinks last for less and less time nowadays) get the best CTR and revenue albeit for a short period of time. Theres nothing immoral in doing this.

iMODO is trying to cover every angle. Domains with lots of nice direct navigated traffic you can park. Domains with a bit of natural traffic and in need of repeat visitors you can build out with our domain builder. Domains with no traffic you can plug into our domain builder with social networking tools. Domains that dont fit with our upstream feed provider you can still use all the current 1plus tools and serve the ads yourself.

Badger said:

Reading your post is making me dizzy
:cy:

I think the point you're getting to is this example: "I had a web hosting site, I finished running the site and now its parked".. For me, thats fine.

And these sorts of domains with backlinks etc (although backlinks last for less and less time nowadays) get the best CTR and revenue albeit for a short period of time. Theres nothing immoral in doing this.

iMODO is trying to cover every angle. Domains with lots of nice direct navigated traffic you can park. Domains with a bit of natural traffic and in need of repeat visitors you can build out with our domain builder. Domains with no traffic you can plug into our domain builder with social networking tools. Domains that dont fit with our upstream feed provider you can still use all the current 1plus tools and serve the ads yourself.

Click to expand...

What about my methods of driving traffic to my names, Is that acceptable to iMoDo.com or not acceptable?

Hi guys,

Thanks to ~ Cyberian ~ for alerting me to this post. It's a great opportunity for the parking providers to clarify exactly what, at least for them, is legit traffic.

This is not really so much down to the parking provider as their feed provider which is why my comments are pretty much along the lines of Mike F's and Badger's.

Having read through the thread (it's still early morning, so forgive me), I don't think I've seen any reference to the individual feed providers - i.e. Google, Yahoo etc. However, these players are vital, as our policy is very much guided by theirs.
Goog sees parking as a 'passive' means of earning revenue. The term Parking in itself suggests inactivity and this is what is expected of domains on our system: that the traffic on them is 'parked' and not 'driven' - Yes I am aware of our company's name .

As Donny says, the more traffic a domain has, the more money it makes and this is true. The difference between ND, Fab and ParkEd.com is that Google forbids us to allow users to drive traffic to their domains. I know from my own portfolio that many newly-regged domains simply don't have traffic. I park them because I don't have time to do anything else with them, but I know that, if I were an ND client, I would be better off monetizing them by different means - i.e. one that allowed me to drive traffic to them such as Adwords or parking providers who allow this.
I think one of the problems here is that many people with low-traffic domains get frustrated that they are not making their money back on their investment and so drive traffic to their domains, thus breaking our terms and conditions. There are, of course, people who simply see domains as a vehicle for generating cash through fraud, but luckily there are few of those kinds of people on NP.

To elaborate on Mike's point and our TOS:

Allowed:
In general, these are the main sources of traffic we allow.
Type in / Direct Navigation
Search engine traffic (from existing links before the name was parked)
Expired traffic (i.e. hyperlinks, again before the name was parked)

Not Allowed:
As discussed in this thread, there are so many ways of manufacturing traffic that it is difficult to list them.
The fundamental rule is this: If the traffic is being generated by YOU or you are paying someone to generate the traffic, it is not allowed.
I think that makes it pretty clear.

As I said at the top, these are not rules that we've thought up off the top of our heads to make life difficult for our clients, they are the guidelines which are handed down to us from our feed provider. If we had the option, we'd be far more flexible than this. However, it is Google who pay you for your traffic and, if we find it is being generated in a way they do not allow, it is our obligation to remove the domains from their system.

I hope this clarifies ND's situation. Sorry it got a bit long, but ~ Cyberian ~ did ask me to make our position clear!

Ed

NameDriver said:

Hi guys,

Thanks to ~ Cyberian ~ for alerting me to this post. It's a great opportunity for the parking providers to clarify exactly what, at least for them, is legit traffic.

This is not really so much down to the parking provider as their feed provider which is why my comments are pretty much along the lines of Mike F's and Badger's.

Having read through the thread (it's still early morning, so forgive me), I don't think I've seen any reference to the individual feed providers - i.e. Google, Yahoo etc. However, these players are vital, as our policy is very much guided by theirs.
Goog sees parking as a 'passive' means of earning revenue. The term Parking in itself suggests inactivity and this is what is expected of domains on our system: that the traffic on them is 'parked' and not 'driven' - Yes I am aware of our company's name .

As Donny says, the more traffic a domain has, the more money it makes and this is true. The difference between ND, Fab and ParkEd.com is that Google forbids us to allow users to drive traffic to their domains. I know from my own portfolio that many newly-regged domains simply don't have traffic. I park them because I don't have time to do anything else with them, but I know that, if I were an ND client, I would be better off monetizing them by different means - i.e. one that allowed me to drive traffic to them such as Adwords or parking providers who allow this.
I think one of the problems here is that many people with low-traffic domains get frustrated that they are not making their money back on their investment and so drive traffic to their domains, thus breaking our terms and conditions. There are, of course, people who simply see domains as a vehicle for generating cash through fraud, but luckily there are few of those kinds of people on NP.

To elaborate on Mike's point and our TOS:

Allowed:
In general, these are the main sources of traffic we allow.
Type in / Direct Navigation
Search engine traffic (from existing links before the name was parked)
Expired traffic (i.e. hyperlinks, again before the name was parked)

Not Allowed:
As discussed in this thread, there are so many ways of manufacturing traffic that it is difficult to list them.
The fundamental rule is this: If the traffic is being generated by YOU or you are paying someone to generate the traffic, it is not allowed.
I think that makes it pretty clear.

As I said at the top, these are not rules that we've thought up off the top of our heads to make life difficult for our clients, they are the guidelines which are handed down to us from our feed provider. If we had the option, we'd be far more flexible than this. However, it is Google who pay you for your traffic and, if we find it is being generated in a way they do not allow, it is our obligation to remove the domains from their system.

I hope this clarifies ND's situation. Sorry it got a bit long, but ~ Cyberian ~ did ask me to make our position clear!

Ed

Click to expand...

Excellent information, and ND position...Thank You Ed...for the very informative information.

I can certainly understand your position, Google is getting to the point that, People can hardly use them, They have put the hammer on people who have no control if someone "Click Bombs" Thier adsense, They just ban them, And do not listen to what anyone has to say, Unfortuantly this happens, The site owner has no control over it, I feel as google is treating the domainer, aswell as the webmaster in ways that are unacceptable, Just to clarify, I am not banned by google, I think using alternate feeds other than google will be a necessary evil in due time, Such services as Yahoo, Ask.com and others, Realize that there is bad that comes with the good, Meaning, No matter how they tighten down thier TOS, The click fraudsters are still going to try and scam thier way through the system, Alot of the providers have fought the fight by reimbursing the advertiser, Aswell as making the proper financial adjustments to the publisher, I strongly believe these policies are working, and are making sure the advister is not ripped off, On the other hand, Google insists on changing it's terms of service weekly, To combat such click fraud attacks, Instead of the more logical way of handling this problem. Click fraud will remain a fight, The scammers aren't going away, But such publishers as Yahoo, have combatted against them, Made sure the finances of the parties involved, are adjusted correctly, and are able to keep moving forward with thier program.

Thank You, Cyberian, For opening this thread, Contacting the Parking service providers that have participated in this discussion, I think we are making very good progress as to getting to the bottom of this, I am still hoping for more parking company Reps to join us in this discussion, We have covered some vital points, We still have more to cover, imo

Ed,

Thanks for stepping up and clarifying the ND bottom line.

We appreciate your input and thank you for your time.

X,

Just a little info on click fraud...
http://clickfraudnetwork.com/content/ClickFraudIndex.aspx

And some comments...
http://www.namepros.com/industry-news/359801-click-fraud-at-15-8-a.html

Cy

Please see the above , ~ Cyberian ~ , I had forgotten to thank you for everything you have done, and accomplished with this topic.

Click Fraud is going to be an on going thing, Just as the crime in our city streets rises, we don't stop going outside because of it, It is very unfortuanate that these scammers exsist, But it is how we deal with them, that will make a difference in the end, The same applies with domain parking and ad publishing in my opinion, I think Yahoo has done an outstanding job combatting these thieves, Google on the other hand, Is doing a terrible job, They are giving into these scammers, By banning people that have no control over what someone does once they get to a website, They are further laying new ground every day in changing thier terms of service all the time, This is not the answer, It is the fastest way to elimanate the problem, But definatly not the answer, This in turn, puts more pressure on the domain parking companies, They seem to have almost backed the parking companies against the wall. in my opinion.

.X. said:

They seem to have almost backed the parking companies against the wall. in my opinion.

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They sure make things interesting, and working with google can be a hoop jumping exercise at times, but they havent so much backed syndicators against the wall yet.

Google's no1 concern is to their advertisers (obviously). They want converting traffic so their advertisers spend more. If an advertisers budget gets wiped because of non converting traffic from a parking page then of course they will take issue.

Domainers seem to think that its a given right to be served high paying PPC ads. For some reason people believe they can hand register a domain for $5 today and earn that money back every week from a parking company. Im actually surprised more parking companies dont vet their domainers more ridgedly than they do. However, i do believe that this is the future. Having an "open" account with a parking company will be something to treasure in the not-too-distant future. Not only do I believe there will be a consolidation in the parking company market but also in the serving of PPC to individual domainers.

"valid" clicks will determine whether you get an account or not.

Fabulous has high standards.

Some parking companies do not. What is the benefit of having high standards? Well I have received many clicks over $5.00 with them. So I will forget about ever trying to "fool one over" on my parking company. I will not be sending traffic to my parked names.

I too think Mike taking the time to clarify how Fabulous parking works is a good thing. All parking companies should spend time to educate domainers about parking.

The concept of domain parking is all about visitors coming and clicking on the links. Its not about paying money constantly to some advertiser to get traffic to it. Parking names is supposed to be easy. Pick your keywords park it and move on.

If the names are so poor as traffic names, just don't park them or park them and let them sit there. Either way, paying for traffic or having a poor traffic name, it all brings the same result.. a poor investment.

You want to make money parking? Then find or buy high traffic names that can be keyword targeted.

Badger said:

They sure make things interesting, and working with google can be a hoop jumping exercise at times, but they havent so much backed syndicators against the wall yet.

Google's no1 concern is to their advertisers (obviously). They want converting traffic so their advertisers spend more. If an advertisers budget gets wiped because of non converting traffic from a parking page then of course they will take issue.

Domainers seem to think that its a given right to be served high paying PPC ads. For some reason people believe they can hand register a domain for $5 today and earn that money back every week from a parking company. Im actually surprised more parking companies dont vet their domainers more ridgedly than they do. However, i do believe that this is the future. Having an "open" account with a parking company will be something to treasure in the not-too-distant future. Not only do I believe there will be a consolidation in the parking company market but also in the serving of PPC to individual domainers.

"valid" clicks will determine whether you get an account or not.

Click to expand...

Thank You ..Badger.....Very informative...Much appreciated

I am not sure we are not still at a "Cross Roads" of what a "Valid" click really is.

I am seeing as Donny from Parked.com said, Every parking company has it's own terms of service...And i can fully understand that, And appreciate each and every parking companies terms of service.

I spoke with my parking manager by phone today, I asked virtually the same questions i have presented here, I asked, Is it acceptable to receive traffic from "web directories" , At first the answer was yes, And then i think a bit confusion set in, After explaining my position, That all my names are indexed in web directories, Lets think web directories for a minute, Not be confused with search engines, Because this where my parking agent became confused, I will use this one as an example http://www.alivedirectory.com/ ... I have my names indexed in atleast one thousand of these directories, I get traffic from these directories, There are certain ones, That i do bid on keywords with, So i am paying a fee for the listing, Where i do have to pay per click, BUT...these vistors are doing one of two things. #1 putting a keyword into the search box of the directory to find what thay want, #2 Going to the catergories of the directory to find what thay want, It is not a controlled, Incentivized environment, It is no different than someone putting " Domain Name" into google, and receiving the search results, The vistor finds my listing within the directory, Just the same as they would google, They click on my listing, Because they are interested in what i have to offer, Once one on my landing page, They will only click a link, IF they see something that takes thier interest, and they want to view it, Just the same as google, There is no difference, I explained this to my parking manager, so she would understand what i was talking about, She said, Hold on, I will have to confirm this, She put me on hold, She came back and said, YES, That traffic is acceptable. NOW... Is this LEGITIMATE traffic in the eyes of ... NameDrive.com - Bodis.com - iMoDo.com and other parking services, I believe that Ed, at NameDrive clarified, This method is not acceptable and is breaking the terms of service at NameDrive.com, This is was what Ed wrote concerning this ""If the traffic is being generated by YOU or you are paying someone to generate the traffic, it is not allowed."" Indeed, I am paying someone to INDEX my listing per click, But i am in no way, Nor is the directory provider PAYING anyone to search thier directory, Nor are they PAYING or otherwise, The person to click the link to my listing.

My questions is, What parking companies allow this traffic, Does anyone think this traffic is "FAKE" , If so , Please explain how, YES , under the definition of "arbritrage", That is what i am doing, I am paying little to get alot, How is this an unethical practice?

I believe what iam doing is sending extremly quality traffic, Making a little money, Ethically and Legally.

I also believe that if google has a problem with this quality of traffic, Than they have a problem..Period....Because i can't think of more quality traffic, than i am serving.

Thank You for reading this,Sorry it is so long, I just want to ad, Google has it's own web directory aswell ...They don't have a problem having a PAID inclusion into thier web directory , obviously http://directory.google.com/

Yes John, but you are looking at the issue solely from your own perspective.

You are an honest guy that wouldnt do anything illegitimate. Ok take that as read.

Lets say your domains are receiving legitimate traffic from a certain directory. However lets also say that this very same directory referrer is also sending traffic to "other" parked domains and where this traffic is BS / fraudulent.

How will you know this isnt happening?? And, more importantly, how will the parking company and upstream provider know that your directory traffic is legit?

The safest way for a parking company to deal with this is to say simply "dont do it". If they allow too many bad referrers through as "valid" clicks when theyre clearly not, then the dreaded "smartpricing" takes affect on the parking company's client ids. Which in turn means lower PPC for everyone.

The google AFD program wasnt designed for people to make money via non-organic means. The only reason why the program exists in the first place is because direct navigation cuts google from the loop. If the only way parked domains were to make money was through inclusion into directories and search engines then the AFD program would end tomorrow simply because google wouldnt need to share the revenue.

If you have domains that get no traffic and where you have to go out and buy directory listings in order to get some PPC then Id seriously consider turning the "auto-renew" button off on that particular domain.