Wikipedia Labeling All Domainers as Cybersquatters

wow lame
I hate labels
tho lots of "domainers" are technically cybersquaters in some way if we like it or not but that still doesnt make it ok to list all the apples bad most dont even know that they are.
at least Domainer has a almost legitimate listing
tho it looks like its by some 1st time poster posted it that speaks little english
Domainer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Domainer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]Domainer which also known as domain broker is the person who do a business like buying selling domain_name

with other Domainer just like real estate agent who do business with real estate.

The domain business is a huge business now as the internet usage is growing rapidly all over the world.

The first .com domain registered was Symbolics.com in 1985 on that year only very few domains registered.

1. symbolics.com: March 15, 1985
2. bbn.com: April 24, 1985
3. think.com: May 24, 1985
4. mcc.com: July 11, 1985
5. dec.com: Sept. 30, 1985
6. northrop.com: Nov. 7, 1985

Click to expand...

Wouldn't you think they would redirect it to this?
I dont see how cybersquating is more relative to domainers than a domainer
tho this listing for domainer looks more like a excerpt from a page about domains not domainers
and I love how on the cybersquating wiki page it does not use the word domaining or domainers once

Cybersquatting is one of the most loosely used terms related to domain name intellectual property law and is often incorrectly used to refer to the sale or purchase of generic domain names

Click to expand...

whats next will wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun redirect to wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder ?

:notme:

It's power of Media.
You've seen many times that someone complain about domainers.
* Can not buy the domain they need for cheap.
* Can not buy it BACK for cheap.
* Asking $million when it only cost $10 to register.
* Domainers don't do anything with their domain.
On and on and on and on and...

Plus, there are ambulance chasers who register tragedy related domains and try to sell it for profit.
People tend to believe whatever it is when they see enough times

One of my friend asked me, "Isn't it illegal to sell domain names?".
I told him about Real Estate and Virtual Real Estate.
I told him about Parking lots in down town and Billboards to explain "Parked domains".

Now, he invest in domains :D

Another thing you may want to consider is Jealousy.
Many people don't have good things to say about lawyers, doctors, rich people...
People will do anything to bring down successful person because unsuccessful people can not stand them.

World is full of unsuccessful people and they are Miserable.
It's in their nature to bring down successful people because "Misery loves company".

Here is the link for anyone interested:

Cybersquatting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i posted about a similar thing 2 years ago..

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/320988-domain-name-speculation-in-wikipedia.html

they used to have "Domain Name Speculation" redirected to this same "Cybersquatting" article... but someone from here took the time to write a better definition and its still there now.

I have uploaded a draft on Domaining to the Wikipedia "sandbox" which is a holding pen where the admins review what was submitted. If anyone is interested in taking a look, the link is below. I don't know if it will be in its original form, or even viewable for that matter.

Domaining/sandbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's a good draft Carlton,
The "About The Page" section might not be acceptable though. The numbers of links might also be considered excessive. Apart from that, it should replace the article.

From what I can see, there was a deletion of the original section and someone tried to fill in the gap. Then someone redirected it to cybersquatting. Wikipedians tend to be a strange bunch at times.

Regards...jmcc

I agree with you. The "about section" thing was really to give them a little background on me. You won't believe some of the jaded, sarcastic, and suspicious comments posted about domainers by Wikipedia staff. They either really, really hate domain investors ... or there's some serious pathological ego problems going on. Major power trip stuff.

Yeah, too many links, true. Trying to give them some actual context and reference points to counter their complete ignorance and indifference. By the way, thanks for clicking over and for your comments. Been a long day.

Nicely done, Carlton, although I agree with "too many links"

Posted my opinion on the talk page:
Talk:Domaining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought Google has fixed their problem back then when you typed-in 'crazy motherfu***r' then the first result would be George W. Bush's site?

i quite often see wiki references on my parked names ???? it seems ok when it helps them

Wow... talk about power modding/power staff.

The idiots 'running' that Wiki re-direct are just being biased and politically motivated, and in doing so are actually just breaking the Wikipedia objectives/aims.

Link to the Proposed Wikipedia Domaining Page

First, thank you for posting and participating in this discussion. I wish everyone cared about this issue. Not sure how long the link below will be active, but it goes to the Domaining page (which is under review). What you will see is no more than 10-20% of the total content I submitted to Wikipedia.

Domaining/sandbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Below is a copy of my letter to the Wikipedia admins on this issue

I would like to respond with a few comments. I do understand that the number of links I submitted in the Domaining article was excessive. Agreed. I was trying to provide an accurate picture of the domain industry, and domainers, as a legitimate group who are ethical, well-organized and who do not deserve to be associated with the crime of cybersquatting. While my comments were perceived as "biased" by one Wikipedia commenter, I can only say that his perception is a projection, and a gross overgeneralization which itself cannot be justified.

We all know that cybersquatting exists and is wrong, but if one were to visit the domainer sites and tradeshows, reference our trade associations, and work within the greater industry, then you would see just how unjust it is that the whole domain name industry has been characterized at Wikipedia as cybersquatters or scammers. Ironically, I find those statements to be born of extreme ignorance of our industry and heavily injected with personal bias against all people who invest in domain names for whatever reasons.

I know that what I am sharing here is factual and objective, not merely subjective, but it is hard to prove a negative, i.e. that the majority of domainers don't engage in cybersquatting. This is why I tried to provide so many links ... so that I could provide Wikipedia staff, and eventually their users, with the names and faces of real people, real businesses, and a greater context around our industry that has absolutely nothing to do with cybersquatting.

An example for the reviewers of Wikipedia which will hopefully illustrate my point. Suppose one Wikipedia administrator was convicted of a terrible crime, and by association all wikipedia admins suddenly began being accused of the same terrible crimes and were castigated publicly. For one, we know that you are not responsible for the bad acts of another person, and ultimately his poor choices do not reflect on you personally or negate all of the good will and collective hard work done at Wikipedia. This parallels the damage that was being done by redirecting domaining and domainers to cybersquatting. The bad acts of a relative minority were being used to humiliate and disparage a large group of people who have worked ethically and responsibly for years, and always within the law and within their rights of domain name registration.

Thank you for being willing to work with me on this important subject. Domainers, as a large group, are basically investors, internet enthusiasts, and people who have careers in a variety of fields. They are reasonable people with families, the same hopes and dreams as everyone else. And moreover, have notable achievements in life. The extensive list of domainers I provided to you, and their associated websites (in my original submission), are a small representative sample of the quality of individuals involved in the domain name industry. One of my investment partners is a board certified psychiatrist working everyday to help people with mental health disorders. Another of my domainer friends heads a non-profit fund raising organization. Yet another is a professor of economics at a major university. Many of my peers are attorneys, stay at home moms, realtors, high-level techies, college students, you name it. This diverse group of people interested in domaining are everyday people with intact values and a guiding set of principles that govern their choices in life. And they have specifically avoided internet crimes and cybersquatting. I know this on a personal level which is why I was so incensed and outraged that a couple of Wikipedia admins took it upon themselves to publicly denigrate so many reputable people.

Thanks again for considering these comments, and for allowing me a voice on this critical issue.

Addendum: Another reason I included so many industry links is I want the Domaining page to be an actual resource for anyone who searches on domaining and is interested in learning more about it. The links I provided you are high quality, relevant, and central to understanding the domain name industry. Please consider allowing me to perhaps place the links at the bottom of the article such that Wikipedia users will have a great resource guide for learning.

Thanks for doing so much work with this Carlton It's amazing how deluded some of them are over there (some just seem to have made up their mind - wrongly - and then are forcing this on others), but hopefully fact can prevail soon.

i often sit on the floor with my laptop on the coffee table.. is that what they mean by cyber "squatter"?

tristanperry said:

Thanks for doing so much work with this Carlton It's amazing how deluded some of them are over there (some just seem to have made up their mind - wrongly - and then are forcing this on others), but hopefully fact can prevail soon.

Click to expand...

I appreciate your comment Tristan. What bothers me is their lack of interest in obtaining a real education about domaining. Power can be misused in very damaging ways, and redirecting "domaining" and "domainers" to a page on cybersquatting in a categorical indictment, and a lie, about our entire industry.

It's not like Wikipedia is some obscure resource. It is one of the most visited websites on the planet. And yet 1 or 2 people there think they have the right to disparage & misrepresent thousands of legitimate businesses and individuals.

If these few Wikipedia admins do not do the right thing, then things are going to get nasty. There is no other option. I am fairly certain that a higher level authority within Wikipedia will be more reasonable and accomodating.

TdotTrader said:

i often sit on the floor with my laptop on the coffee table.. is that what they mean by cyber "squatter"?

Click to expand...

haha, lol.

Domainer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]Domainer which also known as domain broker is the person who do a business like buying selling domain_name

with other Domainer just like real estate agent who do business with real estate.

The domain business is a huge business now as the internet usage is growing rapidly all over the world.

Click to expand...

If this is how Wikipedia's entry from "Domainer" reads, I think I'd much rather that entry redirect to Cybersquatter.

If you don't have something literature to say, please don't say it.

Carlton said:

I appreciate your comment Tristan. What bothers me is their lack of interest in obtaining a real education about domaining. Power can be misused in very damaging ways, and redirecting "domaining" and "domainers" to a page on cybersquatting in a categorical indictment, and a lie, about our entire industry.

It's not like Wikipedia is some obscure resource. It is one of the most visited websites on the planet. And yet 1 or 2 people there think they have the right to disparage & misrepresent thousands of legitimate businesses and individuals.

If these few Wikipedia admins do not do the right thing, then things are going to get nasty. There is no other option. I am fairly certain that a higher level authority within Wikipedia will be more reasonable and accomodating.

Click to expand...

Yeah I'd agree with that Wiki is very popular, but it is very worrying for me that a multi-million dollar industry can simply be tarnished by a few idiots within Wikipedia who don't know the true facts. It just leaves me wondering what else they may distort.

JoshuaPz said:

If this is how Wikipedia's entry from "Domainer" reads, I think I'd much rather that entry redirect to Cybersquatter.

If you don't have something literature to say, please don't say it.

Click to expand...

That's harsh of you... why don't you submit alterations, then? It's Wikipedia - we can all make changes easily enough.

Plus it's "literate", not literature.

JoshuaPz said:

If this is how Wikipedia's entry from "Domainer" reads, I think I'd much rather that entry redirect to Cybersquatter.

If you don't have something literature to say, please don't say it.

Click to expand...

I think the "Domainer" page will probably wind up being edited and revised as well. Possibly redirected to "Domaining" once all is said and done. Everything is up in the air at this point.

I think the person who originally submitted on "Domainer" had good intentions. At this point, I am grateful to anyone who takes an interest since this is such an important cause.

:wave:

---------- Post added at 09:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

IMPORTANT: Let me add too that ICANN are next. The domainer community, and domain registrants in general, pour many millions of dollars per year into ICANN's bank accounts through our domain registrations. ICANN will be pressured to do the right thing until it happens ... and that is to acknowledge domain investor rights, and to acknowledge the huge distinction which exists between general domainers and cybersquatters.

I envision this as a top down event in which new ICANN CEO, Rod Beckstrom, will state that ...

1. domainers do contribute significantly to internet commerce & to the ICANN budget, and
2. that the majority of domainers (domain investors) are not cybersquatters, and do operate within the law and within their rights of registration.

Uh, folks, it is WIKIPEDIA.
If you feel the article needs editing, don't rely on someone else to do it for you.
Step up. I've made a few changes to the "domainer" entry, which needs much, much more.
We also need to advocate that "domaining" not be considered a synonym with "cybersquatting".
That is a completely inaccurate characterization being perpetrated by people who don't have a clue what we're doing.

(sigh)
This is the inherent weakness with the Wikipedia model.
Sometimes, the vast majority of people have an incorrect view of something. Given that Wikipedia tends to run as a pure democracy, if enough people are misguided, legitimate cognoscenti are shouted down by hordes of idiots who are empowered not by knowledge and understanding, but by the fact that any moron can edit the article and every moron has a misguided view.

You then have a Port-A-Potty technician from Akron providing commentary in the "Heart Surgery" article and editing the entries made by a heart surgeon.

We really, really, REALLY have to educate them about this. Domaining is NOT the same thing as Cybersquatting, no more than owning a car is the same thing as illegal street racing. Perception is reality, folks and unfair as it may be, Wikipedia controls the perception of a large portion of the rabble. We cannot let them perpetrate lies. It's up to us to stop this. If we don't take action now, expect sentiment to shift against us, because we've allowed ourselves to be defined as "cybersquatters" and every law clerk doing research for a ruling judge on domain name cases sees that, right off the bat.

Original Domaining Page Submitted to Wikipedia 7/31/09

This first section (directly below) is the Domaining article I wrote/submitted to replace the redirect to "cybersquatting". A key point in the article was to illustrate the terms "domaining" and "domainers" are not dirty words, but commonly referenced terms separate from "cybersquatting". And to provide these Wiki admins, who know NOTHING about domaining, some kind of working introduction. The second section (underneath the article) is the letter I submitted in the Wikipedia discussion section after they trimmed my submission down to about 10 - 20% of what was submitted to them.

Original Submission To Wikipedia on 7/31/09

Domaining

'''Domaining''' is the business of monetizing internet domain names using a variety of approaches and strategies. These monetization strategies include full scale website development, development of minisites, hosting parked pages which display advertiser feeds (pay per click), affiliate partnerships, domain name forwarding arrangements, domain name sales & leasing, the selling of direct sales leads via customer opt-in, providing online hotel and flight booking, the inclusion of paid directory listings and other commonly accepted business approaches.

'''Domaining''' and '''domainer''' are general domain name industry terms which possess no inherent negative connotation. Domaining is commonly used to refer to the varied business-oriented activities of domain enthusiasts or those involved in the domain name industry. The larger domain name industry and domain name community have often been categorically misrepresented as "cybersquatters" by uninformed or poorly researched writers.

'''Domainer''' is used to refer to individuals who engage in domaining, similar in function to developers who engage in developing, sales people who engage in selling, or writers who engage in writing.

"Cybersquatting" is a Federal offense as defined by the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act. This act prohibits registering, trafficking in, or using a domain name with bad faith intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else. The greater domaining industry and domainer community are against cybersquatting, do not register trademark infringing domain names, and have publicly voiced opposition to this practice via international domain conferences, published articles, participation in online discussion forums, and membership in the Internet Commerce Association (ICA) who represent domain name investors, developers, and the direct search industry.

Internet Commerce Association (ICA)

ICA Mission Statement

The Internet Commerce Association (ICA), founded in 2006, is a non-profit trade organization representing domain name investors and developers and the direct search industry. ICA is made up of responsible businesses and individuals who have joined together to improve public confidence in internet commerce. Based in Washington D.C., our mission is to promote and share best practices among participants in the domain name industry and to educate consumers, policy makers, law makers and the media about the value and benefits of direct navigation traffic and the domain name industry.

ICA Member Code of Conduct

The Internet Commerce Association’s (ICA) Member Code of Conduct expresses the ICA’s recognition of the responsibilities of its members to the intellectual property, domain name, and at large Internet communities and will guide members in conducting their domain name investment and development activities with professionalism, respect and integrity.

All members of ICA are committed to addressing the issues facing the evolving domain name industry, which include:

Protection of Intellectual Property Rights: A registrant shall follow accepted trademark law and respect the brands and trademarks of others. Members will not intentionally and in bad faith register and use a domain name that is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark. Registrants shall respond promptly to legitimate disputes relating to alleged infringement of intellectual property rights.

Click to expand...

"Domaining" and "Domainer(s)" are common terms referenced millions of times in video and written publications across the internet (a current Yahoo search of "Domaining" produces 6,960,000 indexed web pages, and a YouTube search produces 39,200 results for the term). Periodicals and domain news aggregators devoted to domaining include: ModernDomainer.com, DomainersMagazine.com, Domaining.com, DNHeadlines.com, and Namebee.com.

Numerous online news and blog sites are dedicated to covering domaining news & events including: DNJournal.com, DomainNameWire.com, TheDomains.com, ElliotsBlog.com, and RicksBlog.com. As of this writing, the DNJournal Daily Lowdown contains twenty-five separate references to domaining, domainer, or domainers illustrating how common these terms have become. Not one of the twenty-five references is mentioned in relation to the illegal act of cybersquatting.

As a credible domain industry news source, DNJournal.com has been referenced in The Wall Street Journal, ABC News, BBC News, Forbes, Newsweek, USA Today, New York Times, CNN/Money, Investors Business Daily, MSNBC, Boston Herald, and the Montreal Gazette.

Domaining is well represented by popular industry discussion forums at: DNF (78,336 members), Namepros.com (156,999 members), ccTLD's.com (1473 members), mobility mobi (4013 members), and DomainState (who provide a "Domainer Orientation Glossary" for new domaining enthusiasts).

Major domain sales, leasing, auction and drop-catch sites include: Sedo, AfternicDLS, BuyDomains, LeaseThis, NameJet, Rick Latona, Snapnames, 4Domains, Pool, GoDaddy, and Moniker who also provide domainer asset management services. This does not represent a complete list.

Examples of domain industry trade shows (past and present) include, but are not limited to: TRAFFIC, Domain Roundtable, Domain Convergence, Domainer Mardi Gras, and Domainer Paris 2008.

Domainer portfolio management software is available at DomainerScript.com as well as a Domainer Accreditation Program for establishing one's own registry status at LogicBoxes Registry Solutions.

Many well known domainers are not only domain investors, but have allocated considerable resources to full scale web development projects, and they operate some of the most popular sites on the world wide web. Examples are brothers David and Michael Castello (PalmSprings.com, Nashville.com, DayCare.com), Skip Hoagland (Atlanta.com, Honolulu.com, MyrtleBeach.com), Boulevards New Media (Houston.com, Seattle.com, LosAngeles.com), Elliot Silver (Burbank.com, TropicalBirds.com, Lowell.com), InternetRealEstate.com (Software.com, Phone.com, Chocolate.com), Rob Grant (Adirondacks.com, RobGrantRealEstate.com), Sahar Sarid (Bido.com, FuneralHomes.com), Rick Latona (aeiou.com, RickLatona.com), Ron Jackson (DNJournal.com), Andrew Alleman (DomainNameWire.com), and Michael Berkens (TheDomains.com).

The domain name industry is a multi-million dollar enterprise and is growing steadily year after year. Sedo is a single online marketplace whose 2008 reported sales were $77,413,370 alone. Sedo's 2006 domain sales were $45,076,536, and 2004 sales were $11,148,922 showing a significant rise in domain name sales over time. Sedo provides periodic news and articles on domain name investing. "A Time To Buy: A Domainer's Guide" provides a brief overview of parking and selling domain names for novices entering the field.

Further clarification on domaining vs. cybersquatting is contained in "Cybersquatting is Not Domaining" (January 10, 2009 at PremiumDomains.biz/blog).

This page is the first authoritative draft on domaining submitted for inclusion to Wikipedia.org. Its author aims to dispell the mischaracterization of domain name investors as cybersquatters, and to provide a useful starting point for Wikipedia users who are interested in learning more about domaining and the domain name industry. The author owns a portfolio of 850 domain names of which 17 are fully developed websites, approximately 10 are under construction, and the remainder are utilized for targeted search and monetized through PPC advertising. The author does not engage in cybersquatting, and has never received a UDRP or been accused of trademark infringement. The author has been actively domaining since year 2000, and registered his first domain name in 1998 (which was his first and last name in .com). The author is a member of the Internet Commerce Association. The author works full-time in a field totally unrelated to domain names and internet technology.

- END -

----------------------------------------

Comments to Wikipedia Regarding Domaining Page Submission

I would like to respond with a few comments. I do understand that the number of links I submitted in the Domaining article was excessive. Agreed. I was trying to provide an accurate picture of the domain industry, and domainers, as a legitimate group who are ethical, well-organized and who do not deserve to be associated with the crime of cybersquatting. While my comments were perceived as "biased" by one Wikipedia commenter, I can only say that his perception is a projection, and a gross overgeneralization which itself cannot be justified.

We all know that cybersquatting exists and is wrong, but if one were to visit the domainer sites and tradeshows, reference our trade associations, and work within the greater industry, then you would see just how unjust it is that the whole domain name industry has been characterized at Wikipedia as cybersquatters or scammers. Ironically, I find those statements to be born of extreme ignorance of our industry and heavily injected with personal bias against all people who invest in domain names for whatever reasons.

I know that what I am sharing here is factual and objective, not merely subjective, but it is hard to prove a negative, i.e. that the majority of domainers don't engage in cybersquatting. This is why I tried to provide so many links ... so that I could provide Wikipedia staff, and eventually their users, with the names and faces of real people, real businesses, and a greater context around our industry that has absolutely nothing to do with cybersquatting.

An example for the reviewers of Wikipedia which will hopefully illustrate my point. Suppose one Wikipedia administrator was convicted of a terrible crime, and by association all wikipedia admins suddenly began being accused of the same terrible crimes and were castigated publicly. For one, we know that you are not responsible for the bad acts of another person, and ultimately his poor choices do not reflect on you personally or negate all of the good will and collective hard work done at Wikipedia. This parallels the damage that was being done by redirecting domaining and domainers to cybersquatting. The bad acts of a relative minority were being used to humiliate and disparage a large group of people who have worked ethically and responsibly for years, and always within the law and within their rights of domain name registration.

Thank you for being willing to work with me on this important subject. Domainers, as a large group, are basically investors, internet enthusiasts, and people who have careers in a variety of fields. They are reasonable people with families, the same hopes and dreams as everyone else. And moreover, have notable achievements in life. The extensive list of domainers I provided to you, and their associated websites (in my original submission), are a small representative sample of the quality of individuals involved in the domain name industry. One of my investing partners is a licensed psychiatrist working everyday to help people with mental health disorders. Another of my domainer friends heads a non-profit fund raising organization. Yet another is a professor of economics at a major university. Many of my peers are attorneys, stay at home moms, realtors, high-level techies, college students, you name it. This diverse group of people interested in domaining are everyday people with intact values and a guiding set of principles that govern their choices in life. And they have specifically avoided internet crimes and cybersquatting. I know this on a personal level which is why I was so incensed and outraged that a couple of Wikipedia admins took it upon themselves to publicly denigrate so many reputable people.

Thanks again for considering these comments, and for allowing me a voice on this critical issue.

Addendum: Another reason I included so many industry links is I want the Domaining page to be an actual resource for anyone who searches on domaining and is interested in learning more about it. The links I provided you are high quality, relevant, and central to understanding the domain name industry. Please consider allowing me to perhaps place the links at the bottom of the article such that Wikipedia users will have a great resource guide for learning.

The current Domaining page link (under review): Domaining/sandbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Domain Aftermarket" was also redirected to "Cybersquatting". There didn't seem to be any discussion on that page so I changed it to redirect to "Domain Name Speculation", which at least is a real article without the biased opinion.

Amazing bias. Very disappointing.