Frustration central

Although i can see alot of where you are coming from Ian, i for one, tend to set all of my appraisals by wholesale value (with the odd exception).

However, they should have been able to pick up on shopfitting being a high value domain....

But, what you referred to with the page of appraisals in 3 minutes, is unacceptable!

Occasionally if i see a good enough name, i will value it, taking about 10 - 15 minutes to do so.....

Unless you know what you are talking about, there is no point in appraising IMO.....

Let's run through this quickly, Ian ... you posted five (5) domains for appraisal (free - typically Wholesale valuation - OPINIONS from other good members of the community). After one member takes the time and effort to actually appraise them for you ... rather than sitting back and accepting more input, you chime in with "Ok, thanks for your appraisal man...". Then, apparently, you don't like the next one either ... whereby you then post five (5) more domains no less than 10 minutes later (with no mention of them having been negotiated, sold, information about End users, nothing)? Same member that appraised the first lot comes in with another "Reg. fee's" for your second batch ... you're not too pleased, right? (here's your reply 9 minutes later, "Reg fee.....?????? you sure....??????"). And another appraisal comes in, bamm ... there you are standing firm with "Sure you dont mean - reg fee minus $50", etc., etc. Couple more trickle in ... bamm ... bamm:

collieri said:

First class appraisals guys, and too be honest as i expected...

Heres the result of our survey.. And some red herrings were in there also btw.

Realism.tv (just agreed a sale price of $2000)
Gogive.com (sold for $800)
iy3.com (sold for $70)
dn1.co.uk (sold for $50)
shopfitting.com (sold for $6000)

Food for thought huh???

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Red herrings?

Post above starts out sarcasticly and it is THEN that we learn of your sales for the aforementioned domains! Nice set-up, really IMHO.
Nice "food for thought" would have been some appreciation for the time and effort spend thus far by fellow members leaving their humble OPINIONS ... -and- also some information about the sales both at the time of appraisal request, and as a follow-up in my view. Now that would have been helpful, constructive for ALL, correct?

And it's you that is frustrated? :blink:

There very well may be some "larger issue" thoughts, criticisms, or concerns in the above post ... which is fine (other than it should have been posted in the "Suggestions Forum") ... but, IMHO, the referenced Appraisal thread was a poor choice to center your "frustration central" thread here around and not at all fair to those that simply wanted to assist you with this initial post:

collieri said:

Just wading through my ridiculously long list of domains and found these that id forgotten that id bought... Thoughts on value o'learned ones...

terrible.tv
realism.tv
refit.us
tots.ws
webcpanel.com

Regards

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So, some are learned ... perhaps others now are not? Please remember that appraisals are merely opinions, and thus there are no "right" or "wrong" thoughts, comments, valuations.

Hope you can see what I'm saying (in defense of folks appraising free of charge), and please feel free to continue the constructive criticism, etc. here or in the "Suggestions Forum" as you see fit ... we appreciate all fair and honest input, naturally.
-Jeff

Didnt think of it that way...... :cy:

You should always think of consequences to your action before posting things, as it is;

'Against the rules to post domains that are not yours in the appraisals section'

And if you have sold the domains, then you obviously dont own then?

I didnt bother appraising your names after reading your posts/replies to the other members appraisals, you seemed ticked off as Jeff mentioned above...

collieri said:

The appraisal section is worse than its ever been... Instead of posting regfee without any reason, all these junior guys (i mean in terms of age), now just follow suit and copy what others have written before them. I guess purely for NP$

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On my part, I disagree. I always give my own honest opinion. I don't post to get np$ either (although, the more the better). In fact, I resent you using the same typical steriotype that young people are always to blame for incidents like this.

I don't usually appraise domains, because I am not an expert, but I do say what I think.

I agree with poordoggie, BUT this does have to come to a stop with some of the poeple of a younger age on this forum, I think we are steorotyped alot, but its alot of the time that young people our age do post trash threads and stuff and sometimes do copy what others say to try and look all "smart". We need a new set of rules here, any trash posting or something like that should be a 3-10 hour ban, if it happens 3 times its a one week ban, and so on...

Just My Opinion

Well, my opinion is while I agree with Ian "in principle", NamePros is a diverse community comprised of all ages and backgrounds.

My theory is the real gems don't get posted for appraisal because the ones that have them already know their worth.. 98% of the appraisals are either domains which would need branding and development for any real value (IMO), average to "good" keyword domains hampered by a "poor" extension (reminding ourselves that ext is only a very small part of the total equation), or domains hampered by potential TM issues.

Rule #1 should be: If you want a "real" appraisal, go to a "real" professional and pay for it. Don't gripe because your "free" appraisal is flawed (in your opinion) or doesn't jibe with the current market value (again, possibly, in your opinion).

While we have a few here that tend to parrot the opinions of others, at least some opinions are genuine. But the keyword here is "opinion". No domain is truly worth anything until you have the check in hand. Most of us can only venture a guess as to the end-user value. 99% of the appraisals here are for "wholesale" value for that reason.

I agree I'm no expert when it comes to appraisals or domain purchases.. if I were, I'd be making the money Ian seems to be. I just try to be honest and call them "like I see them"... and to be honest, there aren't many domains I'd personally be willing to pay big money for. I buy what I like or have a use for.

Anyway, rather than be frustrated, I've cut back on my caffeine and found other outlets for my posts here. It's alot more relaxing that way

collieri said:

Heres a good example of why some experienced domainers are finding the whole business of NPs a tad frustrating nowadays

http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76076

The appraisal section is worse than its ever been... Instead of posting regfee without any reason, all these junior guys (i mean in terms of age), now just follow suit and copy what others have written before them. I guess purely for NP$... No one ever cares to explain as to why they gave such a valuation in the first place anymore.. You click the new post link at the top sometimes, and theres a page of appraisals given in about 3 minutes by the same guy giving the same value to every one....And this, fgs, is apparently in line with the rules...!

Now, i dunno if this is just me but, doesnt things like this make a total mockery of this site, undermine what it should stand for and ensure the 'pro' in NP gets s*****red at now by the rest of the domaining fraternity. And im not kidding right here folks..

Now ive no problem with the younger guys, for heaven knows, theyd run rings around my html coding and things of this ilk. But there is no tangible middle ground any more. For us more mature :red: domainers who have invested $$$$$+ in domains, development and the like, we have little to discuss here anymore... All threads seem to get trashed or commented upon by people without a shred of knowledge of what they or indeed we are talking about.. People discuss filing a law suit (of all things) against paypal for not returning there $5 ... People post threads looking to sell all their NP "because theyre desperate for $" - net gain about $2.. Theres a weird fixation about becoming NP member of the month and people get nominated because "he's really nice"... Threads such as 'what was the longest/shortest/funniest/worst/oldest name did you buy..' appear all the time, some people seem to be on here 24/7 posting hundreds of threads a day (i mean what more can they discuss about domain names..?) and theres just this whole feeling of it being a kind of schoolyard discussion forum where domain names are now secondary...

I left domainstate because there was too little to discuss and people were overtly frank with you.. But looking back at some of the appraisals and comments etc in relation to where NP is today - I have to say none of this rubbish has crept in. Maybe its because theyre moderated more strictly, i dunno..

http://www.DomainState/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=29153

See what i mean...?

(hope you dont mind the link Ron)

Fine, if namepros is only interested in bums on seats then continue along the vein were on and sign up the entire domaining community under 12 and give them little or no guidance as to what is/should be expected of them as a member, but if we aim to be a professional community then lets start acting as such...

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I disagree,The appraisers are providing a courtesy to NP,They would'nt appraise if they did'nt know what they were doing.I have yet to have a name i submitted appraised above low to mid xx,That is not a bad thing,I have sold two names on Ebay in the last week,And the appraisers here were right on the pricing,One went for $13,The other $15.Keep up the good work appraisers.And remeber the appraisers are providing a courtesy here at NP.

I'm one of the youngins' around here though I wasn't a part of that thread.

However, let me point out what others have said. The forum is based on freely given opinions of the members. The key here is that there is no claim for the forum to be 100% accurate nor that all members posting are professionals. So, when you're posting in a public forum there, you have to acknowledge that anyone can post. If you want a real appraisal you're going to have to pay for it, otherwise don't put a whole lot of stock into those appraisals.

Personally, I post my domains in there from time to time - and I've had a couple that were appraised with a wide spectrum of numbers there. (Nothing too big compared to others, my domain collection has been modest.) I'll look at the oppinions there and consider them - usually the ones I know that are a little more professional than the others then I move on.

Finally, you've got to consider the personal opinions of those involved. Namepros, and any community for that matter, is made special through diversity of members and with this comes certain, biased factors. For example, some may not value .tv's very high or just don't like the key words. I would have appraised many of those domains differently, but I chose not to post because .tv domains and so on are not my forte. That doesn't mean that someone else may see things a little differently.

Its tough though because we cannot really re-write the rules. Sometimes people's opinions are genuinely the same as someone elses.

Also, sometimes people misout something, or forget to mention it... and when someone else posts it, they agree and add to the thread.

I suppose though that you can either get a varied opinion... or just stick to the board you think gives you the best appraisals. Just remember one thing - at least we aren't all noses in the air. On your other board they jumped straight in with $xxxx and stuff, whereas here we are cautious. People have experience here.

Although saying that, I think that people should give valid reasons... even if it is just "bad name" or "great key words" or something.

Tom

I think everyone has the right to post an appraisal, though for the life of me I dont know why someone would appraise something for which they have no knowledge or experience of what they speak....

Like me going to a car lot and appraising motors... "I know nothing about cars but id say that Aston martin Vanquish is worth about $200...." i.e. pointless....

But my point of the original thread has been missed... I didnt care what the guys who appraised my domains said... AT ALL.. And I certainly wasnt angry (as Jeff intimated) when i reposted comments like "are you sure..?"... I was just surprised to see post after post all saying the same ridiculous thing.. And yeah, I apologise for posting names previously sold, but i just wanted to make a point.. You know, shopfitting.com appraised at reg fee when this is a multibillion $$ worldwide industry..

My point is that an appraisal can only be given with either 'prior experience of the market to which the name relates' or 'research'... When the same guy appraises 20 names in 10 minutes with virtually the same comment on each, thats ok is it...???

And in contrast to Tippy's odd comments about my appraisals, I dont believe I EVER appraise without comment, advice, suggestion or knowledge... So i dont know where hes coming from.. But dont take my word for it, check out my past posts...

And on the point of the younger guys, my post wasnt meant to diss our younger members, I was simply stating that the people who multi post the "reg fee only" appraisals are the younger guys.. Fact..

I ve not looked to set out to upset anyone and i didnt want the focus of this thread to be solely on appraisals... Ive set out to highlight a shortfall in the appraisal section thats all. Yeah and sure, domains with value tend not too be posted..

The rest of my post as you can see was, in a roundabout way, pointing out that the 'Pro' element of this site has, imho, wained recently...

I do however take your point Jeff about the suitability of my example..

You didn't mean to upset anyone, but yet you call down the younger folk, basically consider us "bums in seats" and that because of the new people who have invaded your idea of a heavily moderated community that only has subjects discussed that you feel are valid, that NamePros is the "scum" of the domain world. Is that it or did I miss the point?

I've been on the net a long time, served as moderator and admin of sites, since it's inception into commercial status. One thing I've learned is that there is two options for a site that is based around human interaction. You either take the private club approach or the community approach. Honestly, sites that have taken the private club approach usually wind up going broke or opening to the public because they run out of members, or they fail due to lack of interest on the "valid" topics. Communities on the other hand, that are open to all, do quite well for their owners and their members and that is what drives the site to profitability and staying online. But in doing so, they evolve from the original topic and membership on which the site was based into a myriad of different people, ages, cultures and subjects. And that is what keeps the interest. Domain names, as you said yourself, have very little to talk about, so what's wrong with discussing other interests as well? We are people, not just robots counting OVT scores to calculate worth. If that is not the kind of site you want, why not start your own private club where only members that have $$$$$ portfolios can be members? You obviously have the money. Then you can set stringent moderation as to what you feel can be discussed in a professional environment. Having worked in high income offices myself, I find this kinda funny. Most of the topics of conversation outside of meetings was whether the new boss's car was a bonus or what the latest basketball scores were. Conversations like you'd find here because people have other interests and aren't single faceted. It doesn't make them less successful, less dedicated or whatever. It just makes them human.

You want to complain that the appraisals aren't to your liking, that's your perogative, but insulting a wide range of people to make that complaint is over the top IMO. I am not a kid, but I do sell some NP$ once in awhile in the forums, and I find this all very fascinating. I am retired due to health, and while I have a good nest egg, I am never one to turn down some extra cash. I have purchased lots of domain names, though I may never have a $$$$$ domain portfolio, but NamePros has shown me a wide range of opportunities that I didn't know I had and that means a lot to me. And that came from the people who are here, who are friendly and willing to help, who don't have their noses in the air, and see this as the community it is. I tried other sites, but you ask a question there and they ask, "What are your domains worth?", at least that is what it feels like.

My 2c

I'm nearly certin that you've mentioned things about age before this incident. Why don't ignore apprasials you don't like. Even if it is just for NP (which is possible and does make sence) why should it bother you. If you want and are certin that it's just teens put a little note with your apprasial threads saying something like "If you're under 18 don't appraise these."

You obdiviously know domains better then 99% of the members here so why are you even asking for an apprasial. You can get the value of it better then 99% of the members here...

Qwert said:

I'm nearly certin that you've mentioned things about age before this incident. Why don't ignore apprasials you don't like. Even if it is just for NP (which is possible and does make sence) why should it bother you. If you want and are certin that it's just teens put a little note with your apprasial threads saying something like "If you're under 18 don't appraise these."

You obdiviously know domains better then 99% of the members here so why are you even asking for an apprasial. You can get the value of it better then 99% of the members here...

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well said! :lol:

Its kinda what I think too - If you're not happy with the appraisal you get, forget it! Don't ask for an appraisal if you are not going to value the opinions of fellow np'ers.
I know someone who has cancer, and she got two professional opinions about it. 1 doctor said that the tumor had grown and she should do something about it, but the other doctor said that there was nothing to worry about, and that it was small, and not likely to spread anymore. She took the latter. Now, what was the point? There is a 50/50 chance that the cancer was contained, and she took it, kinda stupid, but she took the BEST OPTION. This is what it seems like with you. You aren't happy with the bad appraisal. If you are only happy with appraisals in the $xxxx then why don't you appraise yourself? Why would you ask a community something you aren't gonna listen to?

Also, you say you didn't mean to give offence, yet I have taken it offensively. I have probably taken it the wrong way, but I still feel like us "young'uns" as you put it, are frowned upon.

As I said before I do not post for NP$ - I post because I want to post.

collier said:

You know, shopfitting.com appraised at reg fee when this is a multibillion $$ worldwide industry..

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sorry, correct me if I am mistaken, but didn't you say (on your other forum) that you had loads of american people emailing you asking you what shopfitting meant?

What's the point of having someone appraise your domain, just to come back and tell them the real price you sold them for? Just having fun trying to mock them or something?

I think they were trying to prove a point.

I know how it feels. I put a forum up for appraisal with 700 members and I'm getting appraisals of reg. fee...

CrazyTech said:

I think they were trying to prove a point.

I know how it feels. I put a forum up for appraisal with 700 members and I'm getting appraisals of reg. fee...

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I seen that Crazy - and You actually mentioned members and Growth in the Thread - ....

I've got to admit I stay out of the appraisal section most times now - for a lot of the reasons named above ... People shouldn't have to mention all the stats etc .. for their domains - But as much accurate info as possible is nice.

Then again - It only takes 2 minutes or less to find out if the Domain is worthy of digging deeper to do a more accurate appraisal. Using simple sites such as :

-Marketleap (Publink)
-Ovt (Search and Bids Tool)
-Alexa (Though it isn't the most accurate - If you've been around the block a few times - you'll know how to read between the lines)
-Google / Yahoo - Nice to see how many folks are competing for certain Terms
-Whois - How much time is left ? (I've seen PR6 sites with 10 yrs left on Reg Appraised for low xx$)

I'm not saying "All" the folks in here would need these tools - But they wouldn't hurt a lot of you ....

I hope -RJ- is still working on another DNA platform - It was pretty cool before - and more accurate on Low to Medium ranked domains than most I've seen ~ and it could also possibly help some of the newer people Catch on.

collieri said:

And in contrast to Tippy's odd comments about my appraisals, I dont believe I EVER appraise without comment, advice, suggestion or knowledge... So i dont know where hes coming from.. But dont take my word for it, check out my past posts...

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I have no idea what you are talking about, I simply stated that your replies in your domain appraisal thread seemed as though you we're pissed off about the appraisals you got so I didnt dare give mine as you wouldnt have liked it as well.

There is no way in hell to appraise a name at end user value, no way... unless you can read minds.

CrazyTech said:

I think they were trying to prove a point.

I know how it feels. I put a forum up for appraisal with 700 members and I'm getting appraisals of reg. fee...

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Exactly.. What better way to express my point than Crazy's appraisal thread..

Jeez, my point exactly.... Not this ridiculous side issue about the age of membership...

If any of you guys (in your kind of strength in numbers witch hunt) might have taken the time to realise is that, as Ive said in this post, I have no issue with members of any age on this forum... I was simply speaking factually, i.e. the ridiculous appraisals are always, and i mean always, posted by the younger fraternity. Fact.... Not me with some sort of ageist hang up, a fact... And this, imho, undermines the standing and validity of this particular forum..

And for the guy who somehow drew a connection between me being unhappy with a ridiculous appraisal for one of my domain names and a friend of his/hers with cancer... well, shame on you.. thats all i can say..

And, just so were really clear on this issue:

What i wrote in the opening thread I stand by. No regrets....

But hey, who am I, go back to posting "reg fee" on a domain forum with 3500 uniques and over 6000 visits a month... cool......

Defence rests....

I know you were trying to prove a point, but you've proven it before this. We got it. And that was a serious suggestion. If you want adult appraisers only, just put a little side note saying, only appraise if you're over 18.

Well I can sympathize with you there.

It is indeed annoying to have a forum appraised at reg. fee values when you know it's worth a good bit more than that. In all honesty I'm not good at apprasing websites and forums - but I know enough to know that those are wrong and I simply ignore them. I want the opinions of peers in the market - hence the reason I go there to see where something might stand. A lot of things are worth money - but that doesn't necessarily mean someone will value it at that price and I think that's the case with the appraisals forum.

I use it for a general consensus but I don't plan on substituting it for a professional appraisal (though there are some in there who are pros in their own right).

However, I'm going to throw the benefit of the doubt here and assume that they simply appraised the domain. (Though I did try to clarify it was a forum.)

The thing is,An undeveloped name is very hard to appraise IMO..And most of mine are undeveloped,So i don't expect an appraisel of Low x,xxx as an appraisel for an undeveloped name.After all,I may like it alot,Others may not like like it.I think thier are certain names related to certain niches that will definatly bring more money undeveloped.Such as the ever popular poker niche,It's hot right now,But,It can't just be poker anything! It has to be an attractable meaningful name,People buying undeveloped names seem to want a certain theme-Feel and good keywords to thier name.And justly so,Thier site success can depend on it.An example i saw was,A person was selling Bloghag.com,Blogs are hot right now,But bloghag.com has no theme to develope under,It actually points to nothing more than an old hag! LOL,The appraisers here at NPs do an excellent job IMO,However if it be the case that some are appraising that don't know what they are doing,No matter the age,They should'nt be submitting appraisels.I don't appraise DN's here because i am not qualified to do so,And iam over 40 years old,Proly an old timer here! LOL.I guess my point is,I could careless if the appraiser is 16 or 50 years old.As long as they are **qualified** to submitt an appraisel.Keep up the excellent work appraisers.

Back on track, please.

This started off on the wrong foot.
Had Ian used examples from any other Section but Appr., his point would have been viewed differently by most. We are all very defensive about the appr. section. For some of us it has been the only way to get REAL ideas about a DN's value. After awhile we learn who knows what they are talking about and who is just NP$ hunting. And Ian knows this as well, and he was NOT (as I heard it before the feathers started flying) condeming all the younger members, only those speaking out of turn, and obviously chasing "post count". But that isn't only done by the younger members, we see that type of selfishness in all age groups.

Some of our most dedicated and accurate appraisers are still in their teens. The best coder I have seen in awhile is a young man, very well respected in this forum. They have worked hard at learning how this game is played, and play it well.
I respect that, and listen when they speak. So although I agree with Ians assertion that things have changed somewhat and we hear less from elder members with more experience, we can still separate the wheat from the chaff.

Everything I have learned about Domains I learned from the gracious members of this forum. The Admin and Mods allowed me a wide strike zone when it came to Appr. requests, and I know it served me well to pay close attention when certain members took time from their own work and commented in depth on my names.
NamePros has been good to me, and those at the top run a tight ship. But actions that would have been renounced swiftly and directly have been somewhat rampant as of late, and the fact is clear this comes from SOME younger members interjecting where they have little knowledge or experience.

Listening is the great educator, and it is very hard to listen while speaking.

Lets not let a line be drawn, and divide us over this issue. There is still room for all to learn here. More than the DNs, learn about each other. Respect, as Jeff so aptly reminds us is the key to a working community, and life in general for that matter. Professional is more than a word or title, it is a style one has to learn to become. Polite.... we all know what that means. Respond as you would prefer to be responded to. Ego is a wonderful attribute in humans, it defines self-worth, but dont allow it to over-ride good judgement.

Peace, kp

http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=78354

I dont like to harp on but please, what can we do to attain some credibility