If registry.pro cancels my domains, can I sue them?

can you also provide them with software engineer license?
your driver's license is ok if you're applying for a prof driver's instruction (i guess )
if you believe you can have their domain then file a report against them
http://www.internic.net/problem_reports/

So far they just asked for my licensing information.
I am a professional driver. I've driven for money before and I have a license to drive. So that makes me a professional driver. (Once a pro, always a pro, I have the license). And they say licensed professionals can get any domains they want.

It's subjective stuff. They haven't canceled any domains, but if they do they're going to get a big fight and a lot of noise. They settled on asinine and stupid definitions of what it is to be a professional, and coming from an industry where I do professional work and better work than probably any licensed pros if there are any, I refuse to be belittled by their discriminatory subjective guidelines. If being a licensed electrician also makes someone qualified to register domain related to professional piloting according to registry.pro's rules, then I say my D/L qualifies me to register names too. I don't think their rules pass the sniff test, and I have no problem seeing what the courts say about it.

you're pro alright.

i think the license they're talking about has something to do or related to the domain you just requested to be registered.

I just contacted their legal department and asked them what flies.
At EnCicra.com they make it sound like there is NO relationship
between the license one has and the names they register:

"Dot-pro domain names work just like dot-com domains, with the ability to create
fully featured websites and email addresses. The extension is already universally
recognized on the Internet as the premium space for licensed professionals.

The .Pro domain is a restricted domain name, available to professionals who
self-certify that they meet the eligibility requirements of their profession.

There are no restrictions on the types of names a business or professional
may register: including trademarks, industry keywords, search engine terms,
company names, or marketing slogans."

So either EnCirca is confused and posting misleading information or registry.pro has seriously ridiculous policy.

You have a drive license and you are good at software which including driving software or something relates drivers, so I can not see why you are not qualified to a .pro name?

This is going to be interesting, if I were you I´d stick to the professional software developer angle. I wouldn´t give RegistryPro your driving license number, I would email Matt Buckland at Registry.pro and detail your professional background, the companies you have worked at and job titles. Ask what to put in the license number box on the AV verification link.

You´ve got to play the game, RegistryPro isn´t going to cancel your .pros if you prove to them you are a professional software developer but if you give them your driving license number and say you are a professional driver, that could put them in a difficult position.

It´s in RegistryPro best interests for you to keep your .pros (more money for them and more .pros registered) and I don´t think every profession is going to have a license number (e.g teaching) but software development is a safer play than driving. Good luck!

I put my CDL in the box and submitted it.
I won't call myself a professional driver. But I did ask them to tell me what I need to do via e-mail to their legal department.

And frankly I don't think their rules are enforceable under the law.
I think a jury would laugh them out on their assess once the catch-22
was pointed out.

What is the domain related to? If it isn't at all related to driving your CDL isn't going to help. Why don't you just explain to them that there is no license required in the state of California to do business as a software engineer (assuming that's the case)?

Michael said:

What is the domain related to? If it isn't at all related to driving your CDL isn't going to help. Why don't you just explain to them that there is no license required in the state of California to do business as a software engineer (assuming that's the case)?

Click to expand...

I think you guys are missing a fundamental problem with their rules.
They don't make any SENSE.

If a licensed plumber can get a domain related to engineering, and according to their rules, the plumber can, then they are indicating that the license has nothing to *do* with what the domain name is.

Why don't you stop talking the 'frankly' talk and .. to be frank ... walk the 'frank' walk ...
You go show them how to run their own registry ... Maybe consider hiring J.Berryhill while you're at it .. might save you a shit-load of cash?

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but ehres what I think.

It's not a drivers license that you need for a .pro name. Its a business license.
I believe thats what they are looking for,

I really think it would be helpful if the Registry gave examples of what was acceptable and what isn't. For instance, a pedicab driver here in San Diego requires a permit from the city to operate - does that constitute a licensed professional? How about a certified lifeguard which requires passing the Red Cross' certification? It's all very unclear IMHO.

Jake said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but ehres what I think.

It's not a drivers license that you need for a .pro name. Its a business license.
I believe thats what they are looking for,

Click to expand...

Well you almost make too much sense. But it's OK if you want to miss the point.

dotprofan said:

I really think it would be helpful if the Registry gave examples of what was acceptable and what isn't. For instance, a pedicab driver here in San Diego requires a permit from the city to operate - does that constitute a licensed professional? How about a certified lifeguard which requires passing the Red Cross' certification? It's all very unclear IMHO.

Click to expand...

That's exactly it. And between registry.pro and encirca.com it is confusing, still. I think registry.pro has consistently got it screwed up with regard to handling 2nd-level registrations. The 3rd level registrations are indisputable. For professions that require a license in order for someone to work in that field, it makes perfect sense.

But the 2nd-level domain registration logic is the most absurd nonsense-by-committee I've ever seen, combining all the worst elements of bureaucracy. I've asked them for clarification before and they are still vague. These obscene loopholes just make it completely unfair for the customer and public, so I'm challenging them on it. For such a snooty outfit, you'd think they'd have worked harder to wrangle a workable set of guidelines out of their second swing at it, at least.

You must meet all these requirements, not just one

Registration requirements

A .Pro domain name Registrant (= Owner) :
• is a person or entity who provides professional services
• have been admitted to or licensed by a government certification body, or jurisdictional licensing entity recognized by a governmental body (that body or licensing entity requires that its members be licensed or admitted to provide services)
• is in good standing

Click to expand...

Unfortunately a "Professional Drivers License" won't cut it,
unless you own a driving company.

The .Pro top level domain was previously restricted to Registrants in the accounting, engineering, legal and medical fields in the United States, Canada, Germany and the UK.
Now all licensed and credentialed professionals and professional entities providing services are eligible to register .Pro domains

Click to expand...

dotprofan said:

How about a certified lifeguard which requires passing the Red Cross' certification?

Click to expand...

Red Cross isn't the government.

This is true, but the contract says you don't need to be certified directly from a government institution. To get a job as a lifeguard in San Diego, the city requires that you pass the Red Cross certification. This could fit the terms below:

Professional Use. The Service is made available to you for your professional use only. As such, you agree that you are a person or entity who provides professional services and has been admitted to or licensed by, and is in good standing with, a government certification body or jurisdictional licensing entity recognized by a governmental body, which body requires that its members be licensed or admitted to a certifying or licensing entity and regularly verifies the accuracy of its data.

cdboard said:

Red Cross isn't the government.

Click to expand...

To answer your question

"If registry.pro cancels my domains, can I sue them?"

Yes... you can sue them or anyone else at any time during your regular local government/court house business hours in the United States.

Winning or losing?

mis_chiff said:

You must meet all these requirements, not just one

Unfortunately a "Professional Drivers License" won't cut it,
unless you own a driving company.

Click to expand...

We shall see. Technically it's a gray area. And there are too many of them with the .PRO TLD.

The worst problem with their 2nd level domain requirement is this:

A hairstylist with a license can register a software engineering related domain, but a typical professional software engineer cannot.

That is unfair and discriminatory, and for a quasi-governmental regulatory agency for the Internet, that is unacceptable. They need to provide me some clear reasonable means of licensing myself.

They *say* that the license is blah blah blah important on the one hand.
But on the other hand, once you jump that hurdle, the sky is the limit and license no longer needs to pertain to what's being registered, which betrays everything about the implications of their policy.

Now, I am referring to 2nd-level domains, not 3rd-level domains (third level domains are alright - no quibble).

Second level domains they should just open up like .COMs because there's no rhyme or reason there anyway. What kind of license should I have to register skadoozle.pro or something weird like that?

They should be happy they have the 3rd level domains and simply expand and clarify the requirements of all of their categorical 2nd level domains (for example eng.pro, med.pro, ...) and satisfy professionals that way, and leave the rest to the public to use and spare us all, the registry included, a lot of grief.

DnPresident said:

To answer your question

"If registry.pro cancels my domains, can I sue them?"

Yes... you can sue them or anyone else at any time during your regular local government/court house business hours in the United States.

Winning or losing?

Click to expand...

I wonder if it was a rhetorical question?

sky said:

A hairstylist with a license can register a software engineering related domain, but a typical professional software engineer cannot.

Click to expand...

great point and the reason i think their 'rules' will need to be redefined and relaxed.

DnPresident said:

Winning or losing?

Click to expand...

That's practically the question here. People have sued for even frivolous and
stupid reasons, but not all of them won.

sky said:

They need to provide me some clear reasonable means of licensing myself.

Click to expand...

It certainly helps if they can. Unfortunately they're not required to, and it is a
rather subject thing depending on how things go.

My guess is they want a license from a government agency or by a group that
is recognized by the government. AICPA is registered (I think) and recognized
by the government for accountants, for example.

In your case, your challenge is producing a license by a group that's registered
with your state or even the Federal government. One other possible option is
to register yourself with your local government, though obviously I don't know
how things go there.

Have you found that hairstylist who registered that software engineering kind
of domain name? Just a rhetorical question, of course, but I doubt s/he would
get it.

You were aware of the "rules" prior to registering your domains (atleast, you should have been). Now your upset when they try to enforce them? I understand your frustration, but this is a restricted TLD. This is not .com/.net/.org....

I'm also not disagreeing with you about the rules. They are quite silly, but sometimes regardless of your opinion, you have to play by them. I do. That's why I choose not to register .pro (and every other restrictive TLD)

Dave Zan said:

That's practically the question here. People have sued for even frivolous and
stupid reasons, but not all of them won.


It certainly helps if they can. Unfortunately they're not required to, and it is a
rather subject thing depending on how things go.

Click to expand...

They may end up being required too, since there is some inherent self-contradiction in their rules, which can be subjectively enforced ex post facto, which could lead to legal disputes wherein the ambiguities of their policies work against them.

What the registry was trying to imply, and *thought* they wanted and what they actually stipulated to the public may not be clear enough, or fair enough.

Technically I have a government license. And technically I am a professional. But besides that the other points I've made point out even more realistic defenses for the registrant.

My guess is they want a license from a government agency or by a group that
is recognized by the government. AICPA is registered (I think) and recognized
by the government for accountants, for example.

In your case, your challenge is producing a license by a group that's registered
with your state or even the Federal government. One other possible option is
to register yourself with your local government, though obviously I don't know
how things go there.

Click to expand...

I think you're making reasonable assumptions about the registry's intent, as opposed to their official stipulations, which leave too much open to interpretation. And therein lies the rub.

Have you found that hairstylist who registered that software engineering kind
of domain name? Just a rhetorical question, of course, but I doubt s/he would
get it.

Click to expand...

No, I haven't, but again, you haven't read the part about how there is no restriction on the kind or number of domains a licensed professional can have. You are guessing again about the registrar's intent. But their stipulated policy says it is otherwise.

Further, one can register the domain and self-certify and it is in retrospect that the registrar may decide to reject the registration after the registrant has invested and gotten things up and running, so this is a big problem.

Spade said:

You were aware of the "rules" prior to registering your domains (atleast, you should have been). Now your upset when they try to enforce them? I understand your frustration, but this is a restricted TLD. This is not .com/.net/.org....

I'm also not disagreeing with you about the rules. They are quite silly, but sometimes regardless of your opinion, you have to play by them. I do. That's why I choose not to register .pro (and every other restrictive TLD)

Click to expand...

Well, then you made my defense for me. The rules I was 'aware' of are silly and weak, self-contradictory, violate their own implied premise, subjective and retroactively enforced, which means that I just went ahead as a professional and registered the domains, and now it's up to the registry to prove they have a reasonable footing to cancel my investment without a serious dispute on their hands.

Sky,

I don't really understand your "anger" issue with the .pro registry. If you don't agree with their T/C's they are not forcing you to do business with them...

I have several .pro domains registered, both via Encirca and Domainpeople - currently parked. Both registrars clearly indicated that I would receive an "A/V" professional verification form from the the .pro registry within 44 days and that if the requested information is not provided by some specific date, that I would lose the domains per the .pro registry rules.

I had to provide that exact same data for each domain, it was an automated web form, and within an hour of providing the requested data, my domains went from inactive in whois to resolving according to my nameserver settings.

Did they actually tell you they were going to revoke your domains? If not, what you describe is SOP as far my my experiences so far with each of my registrations.

I do agree that the definition of "professional" is pretty loose, but I think that was by design to give them leeway to keep "crap" out of their domain.

klrsmith said:

Sky,

I don't really understand your "anger" issue with the .pro registry. If you don't agree with their T/C's they are not forcing you to do business with them...

I have several .pro domains registered, both via Encirca and Domainpeople - currently parked. Both registrars clearly indicated that I would receive an "A/V" professional verification form from the the .pro registry within 44 days and that if the requested information is not provided by some specific date, that I would lose the domains per the .pro registry rules.

I had to provide that exact same data for each domain, it was an automated web form, and within an hour of providing the requested data, my domains went from inactive in whois to resolving according to my nameserver settings.

Did they actually tell you they were going to revoke your domains? If not, what you describe is SOP as far my my experiences so far with each of my registrations.

I do agree that the definition of "professional" is pretty loose, but I think that was by design to give them leeway to keep "crap" out of their domain.

Click to expand...

Well on Encirca I just remember reading that I'd have to self-certify and agree to terms and conditions. But I've had all of these domains for a year, since before the re-launch, and renewed several after Sept. 8th because I had to scrape the bread together. I worked hard and invested a lot of time in it. And there's always been a weird thing between EnCirca and Registry.pro via the loopholes.

So I was well-invested in these names before the new A/V thing came online, to explain why I'm bugged by this, and 'went ahead and registered them anyway'.

And I'm angry with the registrar, and impatient with all of their apologists, of which there are many, because whatever they think or claim their intent is, it is extremely badly thought-out and badly implemented policy, which is a real slap-in-the-face to me as a professional engineer, and their policy feels very discriminatory toward people in my situation, while unusually lenient in other areas. They don't care about me, and I don't feel sorry for them and I am angry about it. So whether you understand it or not, there it is.

So I am willing to challenge the registry for their settling on some very inappropriate buggy policies at my expense. And they seem snobs about it too. If they were more reasonable, and less snooty, stodgy self-congratulatory and inflexible and were more fair-minded and clearer I wouldn't be angry. I don't feel sorry for people who pose as powerbrokers but don't take the time to work on fair policy and respond responsibly and creatively in situations like this.