.tv The moment of failure for .TV - Or was it?

GoneWalkabout · Mar 10, 2010

There was, supposedly, a defining moment when .Tv names went from the status of ‘fighting the recession’ to ‘victim of the recession’. That moment was the Rick Latona auction of June 2009.

I remember looking at the names in auction at the time and thinking that most were of incredibly poor quality and nearly all were overpriced.

The list, from the time, with prices, is available at

Domainer Resource: RickLatona.com - ccTLD Extended Auction

As one of those names from the auction drops tomorrow, Amsterdam.tv (premium $1500) I thought I would have a quick look at what happend to the other names that were on auction. Surely, if these names were that good, they would still all be taken in 2010.

Well, here are the results

There were 146 .TV names in the auction

42 of those names were premium

104 were standard regs.

Today, only 10 of the 42 premiums are still taken:

Czech.tv 200 prem
Europe.tv 8500
Italy.tv 750
Moscow.tv 500
Paraguay.tv 250
printers.tv 500
Races.tv 300
Spain.tv 12749
Sweden.tv 600
Thailand.tv 1000

The remainder, having been dropped, are available from enom:

Amsterdam.tv 1500 prem
apparel.tv 250
appliances.tv 250
author.tv 250
Baking.tv 2000
Classic.tv 5000
Classics.tv 5000
closeout.tv 250
collectibles.tv 250
contests.tv 250
crafts.tv 500
desktops.tv 250
Forecast.tv 250
franchises.tv 250
Germany.tv 25000
giftshop.tv 500
Help.tv 25000
Holistic.tv 500
Home.tv 50000
inventions.tv 500
laptops.tv 250
Lawyers.tv 7500
monitors.tv 250
opportunity.tv 250
Racing.tv 5000
Sales.tv 5000
Satellite.tv 10000
Scooter.tv 500
Sushi.tv 500
today.tv 5000
Traffic.tv 10000
wholesale.tv 250

Of the standard reg names, of which there were 104, only 65 are still taken, while some 39 names have been dropped altogether and NOT picked up.

I won’t list the 65 names, but here are the 39 names that have been dropped, and are available right now. I doubt, even though I have printed the names, there will be a big rush to pick them up (even when we live in an age of the $12.99 reg):

BalearicIsland.tv
bassproshop.tv
BedAndBath.tv
BigAndTall.tv
BookDeal.tv
BookReviews.tv
Bosnian.tv
BreakDancers.tv
camerashop.tv
ChildrenShop.tv
CollegeTour.tv
CommerceAdNetwork.tv
ComputerCourse.tv
ComputerDeal.tv
Depotverwahrung.tv
etailers.tv
FoodStore.tv
FurnitureShop.tv
GiftStores.tv
golfproshop.tv
GoodDeal.tv
GourmetShop.tv
HardwareStore.tv
jewelryshop.tv
JewelryShow.tv
judaicashop.tv
KitchenTools.tv
LearnForex.tv
OfficeProducts.tv
PoolTable.tv
RetailOutlets.tv
schoolsupply.tv
SoftwareShop.tv
StudentShop.tv
TeamShop.tv
ToysAndGames.tv
TravelTours.tv
VideoContent.tv
VideoGameStore.tv

I have my own ideas and conclusions that can be made from this information:

1 In the main, the premium market is dead to all but the best names. Let this be a warning to all newbies.

2 Much of the talk of the failure of .TV is based on an auction of names that were either premium names, overpriced, or not even worth renewing.

3. Quality standard reg names ARE still selling, being renewed, and highly coveted.

MrRhee · Mar 11, 2010

MillersCrossing said:
If by.......

Millers...whether you're posting as your alter ego "SpiderSpider" or as yourself, your viewpoint means NOTHING to me. Period. You enjoy attacking me personally (under another name) though I don't know you personally and have never wished you any ill-will.
http://www.namepros.com/636287-telefon-tv-sells-9-500-eur-2.html#post3725273
http://www.namepros.com/636287-telefon-tv-sells-9-500-eur-2.html#post3725290
Perhaps you didn't realize that when you asked to get reinstated on this site that they would merge your posts, huh? You showed a different side to your personality throughout your posts and I lost all respect for you. If you wish to spend your time being petty/bitter and attacking me, so be it, but be sure to send me a list of all your personas so I can put them all on ignore. I suggest you put me on ignore too.

to others:
Even in this market, while people are losing money, others are making it. Some are conserving cash, others are on buying sprees. People can complain all they want, post all the examples they want to support their beliefs, but what difference does it make in the end? Believe what you want to believe.

If one person buys ups GEO .TVs, while another person dumps his GEO .TVs - is that an indicator that you should be buying? or selling? Be your own judge and make your own decision. Don't be a sheep.

Regarding measuring success in different ways... it's sad that some people have no clue what it means. If your goal is to make more money today than you made yesterday and you succeeded, good for you. What if your goal was too make just enough money to survive another day? To save your house from foreclosure? To buy your 1st house? To buy your 3rd house? To spend more time with family? To live to see just one more sunrise? Some domainers measure success if they can flip a domain for $4,000 - while others only feel they've succeeded if they sell a name for 7 figures.

For anyone dumping .TV domains, pm me with your lists and prices. If you believe the sky is falling and want to exit, I'm sure you'll be able to get your reg fees back for some of them. For those looking for some buzz surrounding .TV, the wait is almost over (whether it not sinks or swims, time will tell.)... just a few more days/weeks. As for me, with new .TV regs at $15, new .coms currently at $5, and the aftermarket in a slump... I'm going to keep buying names to develop.

If you believe the domain market is alive or dead... guess what, you're right! Congratulations.

Good luck to everyone... and good night.

.

RPK · Mar 11, 2010

About half of the names on the auction were mine or my companies. I'm on my nexus now, but when I get back in front of my computer I will write my reasonongs. And I still own laptops.tv

freedom30 · Mar 11, 2010

MrRhee said:
to others:

Regarding measuring success in different ways... it's sad that some people have no clue what it means. If your goal is to make more money today than you made yesterday and you succeeded, good for you. What if your goal was too make just enough money to survive another day? To save your house from foreclosure? To buy your 1st house? To buy your 3rd house? To spend more time with family? To live to see just one more sunrise? Some domainers measure success if they can flip a domain for $4,000 - while others only feel they've succeeded if they sell a name for 7 figures.

If you believe the domain market is alive or dead... guess what, you're right! Congratulations.

Good luck to everyone... and good night.

.

Thank you Mr Rhee (Finny as well!) for your analyses - those that choose to have tunnel vision and those who expand their horizons; those who invest and speculate and those who criticize and disdain those who do, all have their own personal reasons for their decisions.

You and finster nail it pretty good...everyone has differing reasons for doing what they do and this black/white without any shades of grey doesn't fit in the equation but it's good enough for them, I guess, so I'll leave them with their own opinions. Again, as always, I welcome your thoughts on this forum and admire your spirit here as you give pause for many to actually think of the whys and wherefores of investment and business.

five fast pennies or one slow nickel...vive la différence!

To each their own.

RPK · Mar 11, 2010

All the names listed below were names I owned and let drop. The reason being for a couple of reasons.

The first is because the majority of them were owned by the company I founded, Qoof.com. One of my earlier ideas for the company was to create these sites individually using our technology. In the process we made more than $50,000 profit including the sale of Televisions.tv for $25k.

We made a decision about two years ago not to develop the .tv names as we needed to focus on our core technology, but we decided to renew a bunch of them since we did so well in the past with them. When it came time to renew them this year with the economy turning the way it was and with overall .tv sales down we decided to let them go since they were no longer an asset to the company and we are not in the domain selling business.

I think at one point between my company and my personal hold of .tv names we owned close to 900 of them.

From a personal perspective I did very nicely as well in profit (I sold Paraguay.tv to the current owner) and still hold on to about 50 .tv's which is a more manageable number as an investment, but my main investment is in my company and that is why I have been a lot less active.

I still thing there is great potential with the extension and that is why I am still holding on to a nice portfolio including laptops.tv, smartphones.tv, closeouts.tv, Debates.tv,CookingNetwork.tv,SportsCar.tv,outlets.tv,pranks.tv to name a few.

I am still willing to sell these names, but am not in a rush and have turned down tons of low ball offers.

apparel.tv 250
appliances.tv 250
author.tv 250 - still own authors.tv
Baking.tv 2000
closeout.tv 250 - still own closeouts.tv at reg fee
collectibles.tv 250
contests.tv 250
crafts.tv 500
desktops.tv 250
Forecast.tv 250
franchises.tv 250
Germany.tv 25000
giftshop.tv 500
Holistic.tv 500
inventions.tv 500
laptops.tv 250 - still own
monitors.tv 250
opportunity.tv 250
Scooter.tv 500
wholesale.tv 250

bassproshop.tv
BedAndBath.tv
BigAndTall.tv
BookDeal.tv
BookReviews.tv
BreakDancers.tv
camerashop.tv
ChildrenShop.tv
CollegeTour.tv
CommerceAdNetwork.tv
ComputerCourse.tv
ComputerDeal.tv
etailers.tv
FoodStore.tv
FurnitureShop.tv
GiftStores.tv
golfproshop.tv
GoodDeal.tv
GourmetShop.tv
HardwareStore.tv
jewelryshop.tv
JewelryShow.tv
judaicashop.tv
KitchenTools.tv
LearnForex.tv
OfficeProducts.tv
PoolTable.tv
RetailOutlets.tv
schoolsupply.tv
SoftwareShop.tv
StudentShop.tv
TeamShop.tv
ToysAndGames.tv
TravelTours.tv
VideoGameStore.tv

MillersCrossing · Mar 11, 2010

Now back to the OP's comments.

For me, the end to the irrational exuberance of .tv came in two distinct phases.

1. Seeing RL cash out on all his premium domains. Alarm bells started to ring. RL is someone that I have come to learn is in the top league as far as both domaining and development is concerned. Why was he getting out of an extension if the only way was up? Was he CALLING the market?? Was he heading towards the EXIT door? I tried every which way to rationalise his departure from .tv (in the main...he could still own a small portfolio) but I was left with a nagging unease as to what I was witnissing.

2. That Latona auction. It proved that no matter how low you go with the premiums, the general domaining population are not going to touch .tvs. That was the Wizard of Oz moment when Toto pulled back the curtains ( a bit like Snoops way of putting it). I suddenly realised that all these valuations that had been flying around about .tv and in particular geo.tv......were valuations brought about by never stepping out of the comfort zone of the .tv forum and sticking only with like minded people who were heavily invested in .tv.

That was enough. If I couldnt sell Thailand for $12k at an auction full of domainers that had upto date made up 90% of my .tv sales, I knew I was in trouble.

I sold both my premium geos I had left for bargain basement prices at the time and today, consider myself lucky to having got what i got.

But I am very glad that one of the names went to a very good frind of mine -who throughout all his time on the .tv subforum was as honest a character and as straight up an indidvidual as you could find - especialy in the domainer community - RONNIE MCKENNA. He is in absolutely no rush to sell the name and has so many projects going on at the same time that I am not sure he even remembers he own the name!

Sure enough, within a very short space of time following the auction, .tv had run itself off a cliff. Some say it has to do with the huge recession, my personal opinion is, that the recession only speeded up the inevitable - domainers do not care for .tv and if you are a domainer , then you are in the domaining business - and starting out with 90% of potential customers not interetested in what you have to offer, no matter how good the genric name - if it ends in .tv - conversation over - then that is an enormous handicap.

Rather go for extensions that dont turn away 90% of domainers before you even have a chance to explain the extension to them.

THIS IS MY HONEST EVALUATION OF .TV. I AM NOT LOOKING TO BASH THE EXTENSION.I AM CALLING A SPADE A SPADE. Take it or leave it.

redbat · Mar 11, 2010

IMHO the moment of DOT TV flying off course was the GEO DOT TV hype. If someone has a developed site to post, post a link. Otherwise, all this grand plans, big networks, big money, in stealth mode deals lead many to invest in the extension - but only a handful to make money.

That had the effect of causing an unrealistic high, followed by an unrealistic drop when talk never materialized.

If you chart a path from 2000 to today, DOT TV has been on a nice little incline up.

With one exception, the bump which optically makes it seem like the sky is falling, but simply returning us to the natural trajectory.

So please, stop with all the "I will have big news in two weeks" talk. When you have a link, post it.

Otherwise, just keep it in stealth mode.

My comment on vanity extensions, how is that .LA doing in SOCal. I look forward to .nyc, .paris, etc so that ICANN can make a killing and everyone else lose money.

---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

MillersCrossing said:
You wasted my time on numerous occassions with those "networking phone conversations" that was a complete run around and totally pointless. I still see your signature bears the same sort of language as you used on me with this networking nonsense. .

There is at least 3 very famous DOT COM domainers that had "network calls" with this individual ten years ago. Nothing materialized, except big talk. I'm friends with 2 of them. Trust me, if they could get this guy nailed down, they would.

Ammudamus · Mar 11, 2010

Amsterdam.tv has been registered.

Best,
A

Jimbojimbo said:
There was, supposedly, a defining moment when .Tv names went from the status of ‘fighting the recession’ to ‘victim of the recession’. That moment was the Rick Latona auction of June 2009.

I remember looking at the names in auction at the time and thinking that most were of incredibly poor quality and nearly all were overpriced.

The list, from the time, with prices, is available at

Domainer Resource: RickLatona.com - ccTLD Extended Auction

As one of those names from the auction drops tomorrow, Amsterdam.tv (premium $1500) I thought I would have a quick look at what happend to the other names that were on auction. Surely, if these names were that good, they would still all be taken in 2010.

Well, here are the results

There were 146 .TV names in the auction

42 of those names were premium

104 were standard regs.

Today, only 10 of the 42 premiums are still taken:

Czech.tv 200 prem
Europe.tv 8500
Italy.tv 750
Moscow.tv 500
Paraguay.tv 250
printers.tv 500
Races.tv 300
Spain.tv 12749
Sweden.tv 600
Thailand.tv 1000

The remainder, having been dropped, are available from enom:

Amsterdam.tv 1500 prem
apparel.tv 250
appliances.tv 250
author.tv 250
Baking.tv 2000
Classic.tv 5000
Classics.tv 5000
closeout.tv 250
collectibles.tv 250
contests.tv 250
crafts.tv 500
desktops.tv 250
Forecast.tv 250
franchises.tv 250
Germany.tv 25000
giftshop.tv 500
Help.tv 25000
Holistic.tv 500
Home.tv 50000
inventions.tv 500
laptops.tv 250
Lawyers.tv 7500
monitors.tv 250
opportunity.tv 250
Racing.tv 5000
Sales.tv 5000
Satellite.tv 10000
Scooter.tv 500
Sushi.tv 500
today.tv 5000
Traffic.tv 10000
wholesale.tv 250

Of the standard reg names, of which there were 104, only 65 are still taken, while some 39 names have been dropped altogether and NOT picked up.

I won’t list the 65 names, but here are the 39 names that have been dropped, and are available right now. I doubt, even though I have printed the names, there will be a big rush to pick them up (even when we live in an age of the $12.99 reg):

BalearicIsland.tv
bassproshop.tv
BedAndBath.tv
BigAndTall.tv
BookDeal.tv
BookReviews.tv
Bosnian.tv
BreakDancers.tv
camerashop.tv
ChildrenShop.tv
CollegeTour.tv
CommerceAdNetwork.tv
ComputerCourse.tv
ComputerDeal.tv
Depotverwahrung.tv
etailers.tv
FoodStore.tv
FurnitureShop.tv
GiftStores.tv
golfproshop.tv
GoodDeal.tv
GourmetShop.tv
HardwareStore.tv
jewelryshop.tv
JewelryShow.tv
judaicashop.tv
KitchenTools.tv
LearnForex.tv
OfficeProducts.tv
PoolTable.tv
RetailOutlets.tv
schoolsupply.tv
SoftwareShop.tv
StudentShop.tv
TeamShop.tv
ToysAndGames.tv
TravelTours.tv
VideoContent.tv
VideoGameStore.tv

I have my own ideas and conclusions that can be made from this information:

1 In the main, the premium market is dead to all but the best names. Let this be a warning to all newbies.

2 Much of the talk of the failure of .TV is based on an auction of names that were either premium names, overpriced, or not even worth renewing.

3. Quality standard reg names ARE still selling, being renewed, and highly coveted.

MrRhee · Mar 11, 2010

MillersCrossing said:
...

Yawn. you're bitter because we decided not to collaborate with you?

You and your buddies assume everyone else has the same experience with .TV as you do.
If you hate the extension, does that mean we all should hate it too?
You are being unprofessional and unproductive. While you're complaining that the sky is falling, others are going along their business as if you don't exist.

Keep accusing me and complaining all you want. Your bitterness pollutes this board once again.

If I choose not to share what sites we're developing, why does it bother you and your buddies so much? If I discuss our plans, you bitch at me, if I don't, you still bitch. LOL. What a joke. Such bitterness and misery.

.

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

redbat said:
There is at least 3 very famous DOT COM domainers that had "network calls" with this individual ten years ago. Nothing materialized, except big talk. I'm friends with 2 of them. Trust me, if they could get this guy nailed down, they would.

:zzz:

Really? That's hilarious. FAMOUS dot com domainers? Wow. I apologize for not being to work with people are not likeminded. When we partner with others, we perform due diligence and either move forward or move on. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of FAMOUS domainers that I have worked with. All I can do is just keep moving forward and avoiding all the trashtalk and noise you keep spouting.

You are just an anonymous troll, most likely the same person from EQ's blog that attacked us without knowing us.

We''ll let our work speak for itself. I haven't received any complaints from those we collaborate with, in fact, they are happy to discuss ongoing collaboration, so I hope we're doing something right. But, once again, they're not "FAMOUS", so you probably haven't heard of them before.

It is truly funny that whenever MillersCrossing AKA SPIDERSPIDER attacks us, RedBat comes out of the woodwork. What a sad existence.

gr8trfoo · Mar 11, 2010

Ammudamus said:
Amsterdam.tv has been registered.

Best,
A

Joel strikes again.

Michelle · Mar 11, 2010

OK enough

I am asking that you are all adult enough to keep this on track without the personal issues.

I am sure this is not too much to ask

Many thanks

freedom30 · Mar 11, 2010

Originally Posted by redbat
Be careful who you trust.

originally posted by mystery
as spoken by an anonymous troll. LOL. oh, the irony.

To be honest that is a rather good rule that all should abide by. mystery and redbat, I am sure that both of you exercise and ascribe to that little nugget of wisdom wholeheartedly.

I understand that if we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it(who the F said that?) but let's look at the content of what is being said in the posts for the present and future. Read the message and not who supplies it.

I know nothing of the history of hard feelings and bitter experiences of members of this board, but I do like to learn, and everyone here has contributed. I hate to see this forum dilute itself into a grade school spitball fight when we have gained momentum in productive ideas and engaging debate.

Let's have fun here and enjoy our investments, developments and speculations as well as our inherent differences. I'd love to see some brainstorming as well similar to that when SmashFactory(:hearts

was here. We are closer to that than we have been for over a year. This board is too vital for us to let slip away now. Just my spin on it.

Thanks for the time, guys and gals.

MillersCrossing · Mar 11, 2010

Vito · Mar 11, 2010

freedom30 said:
Originally Posted by redbat
Be careful who you trust.

originally posted by mystery
as spoken by an anonymous troll. LOL. oh, the irony.

To be honest that is a rather good rule that all should abide by. mystery and redbat, I am sure that both of you exercise and ascribe to that little nugget of wisdom wholeheartedly.

I understand that if we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it(who the F said that?) but let's look at the content of what is being said in the posts for the present and future. Read the message and not who supplies it.

I know nothing of the history of hard feelings and bitter experiences of members of this board, but I do like to learn, and everyone here has contributed. I hate to see this forum dilute itself into a grade school spitball fight when we have gained momentum in productive ideas and engaging debate.

Let's have fun here and enjoy our investments, developments and speculations as well as our inherent differences. I'd love to see some brainstorming as well similar to that when SmashFactory(:hearts was here. We are closer to that than we have been for over a year. This board is too vital for us to let slip away now. Just my spin on it.

Thanks for the time, guys and gals.

I agree whole-heartedly.
I have no idea of all the hostility between members here,
but it IS an awesome Forum when all are participating and having fun with new and creative ideas,
and the negativity really does get you down.

.TV as a failure?
Not for me.

Like I have said many times before,
What is YOUR definition of success?
Looks like MrRhee took what I've been writing for the past month and threw his spin on it.

But my definition of my own success is to keep my portfolio paid for, and growing.
Thats it.
Anything else above and beyind that is a bonus for me.
I don't set myself up for failure by making unrealistic goals or promises,
especially in this down market right now.

I think, staying away from Premiums has helped me out a lot.
Although I am getting a little tempted to start grabbing Premiums,
especially ones like Vermont w/only a $500.00 renewal.

We'll see, just have to get a little more domaining money rolling in because I am done using new money.

redbat · Mar 11, 2010

It is funny that I get labeled a troll, when all I have ever done is question unverified hype.

Question, does other posters on this board want to hear news - whether or not that news is valid or not?

Because I would argue that is what has caused the latest downturn in the market. Unverified information that never materialized causing a bubble. Like the housing bubble, prices have simply returned to pre-bubble levels.

There is no tanking of the market, simply a correction caused by market manipulation.

Fundamentals remain the same.

Michelle · Mar 11, 2010

I will ask once more very nicely

Please keep this thread about what it is and not about private issues ...

I would like to see this left open.. would you????

MillersCrossing · Mar 11, 2010

the dot stop said:
.TV as a failure?Not for me.

.Tv has certainly not been a failure for me either. I think I must be in the top 5 of KNOW AND CONFIRMABLE domainers to have made low six figures in this extension.

But I got in at the perfect time and got out a little late, but a whole lot earlier than it could have been.

The question is - what is the state of .tv now?

I would say it is an awful trainwreck of a mess. Yes, there will be a few decent end user sales here or there and a domainer who I have nothing but respect for who puts his money where his mouth is and is making a major play - not just on geos, but really, on the extention itself.

Aside from that, looking at DNJOURNAL, which is in the business of confirmation rather than the business of hype and pump, .tv has done horrendously in the last twelve months.

If it picks up at some point everyone will be happy, me included.

MELLOWMASHER - I hear ya loud and clear.!

Vito · Mar 11, 2010

Some of you guys have been in so long that you have all had one .tv sell for 25 or 50K.
or a year w/ $xxx,xxx profits.
So, I think that you are equating failure with previous sales trends at the plateau of the .tv Market.,
which of course are not happening at this time.
You've been spoiled! :lol:

I think now you have to be a little more honest about what is the true definition of your success or failure, ya know.
At least until a few more hot .tv sales happen this year (hopefully).

freedom30 · Mar 11, 2010

MillersCrossing said:
...I will however continue to give a personal opinion as to state of .TV finds itself in at the moment

...and that opinion, whether one would agree with it or not, whether its a powder puff or a cannonball, is respected and appreciated as a matter of course. Thanks, Millsey!

The medicine that is hard to swallow is oft times the one that cures the body.

snoop · Mar 11, 2010

the dot stop said:
I think now you have to be a little more honest about what is the true definition of your success or failure, ya know.
At least until a few more hot .tv sales happen this year (hopefully).

This redefinition of success generally comes from people who aren't making money in my view. I'm sure when they started the idea for most was to make money. After it results in losses then the excuses start. On one hand a member talks about losing 6 figures in .tv yet is one who would like to redefine success on to something other than profitability.

It is a bit like all the people who started speculating and now say they are developers (after dropping most of their names). It is just an excuse.

If .tv is currently profitable for you then great, keep doing what you are doing because it is working. If you do you accounts each year and domaining has a loss next to it then that isn't sustainable. Unless people realise it they'll wake up one day and they'll have no money for those renewal fees. The exception of course is people with a few names doing it as a hobby.

Overall if you aren't making a profit then make changes. Hoping .tv domains will rise in value to save the day isn't realistic either in my view.

Vito · Mar 11, 2010

snoop said:
This redefinition of success generally comes from people who aren't making money in my view. I'm sure when they started the idea for most was to make money. After it results in losses then the excuses start. On one hand a member talks about losing 6 figures in .tv yet is one who would like to redefine success on to something other than profitability.

Snoop,

Yes, everyone wants to make money.
But the high sales a couple of years ago were probably very easy for the big dog .tv holders, even with the fact of some of those sales having stiff premiums.
I am thinking that since they're not turning 5 figure+ profits anymore (just a guess), that they think .tv is now failing.

No one is to suggest that your own success plans are to lose money.
That would be ridiculous.

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