German letter Ö, does it make it an IDN?

saucey · Sep 5, 2009

Hi.

I want to reg a german name with the letter Ö, but in order to do this GoDaddy says I have to reg the word as an idn.

I don't have a "german character" keyboard. My question is... If I use my english character keyboard for all of the other letters and insert Ö in there as well... will type in traffic occur from Germany if I do it this way, or should the entire word be typed with a german character keyboard even though all of the other letters are the same in both languages except the Ö??

For instance... If I register a german name with my english keyboard with no odd letters in it, such as KRAUT, I can register it in .de and .com with no problem... but if I add the letter Ö in there... it becomes an idn. Are ALL german domains with this letter reg'd as idn's?

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say and can add further clarrification to this for me..

Thanks!

dombastic · Oct 3, 2009

Billidn said:
Imagine the Chinese had invented the internet...

can you imagine how chinese enter their characters?

according to wikipedia: educated chinese know about 4,000 characters
but they have even more characters
(if you do not know the character, you cannot write the word)

educated english, greek, russian knows only about 30 characters
what is 100% of the alphabet

obviously a notebook computer's keyboard cannot have thousands of keys

most of chinese use latin characters to enter chinese characters:
Pinyin method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so idn would not help them to avoid latin characters
it just blocks the rest of the world

benzdorf · Oct 3, 2009

Im sporting maerchen.tv which is the non umlaute way of spelling fairytale in german...

you should try reggen both to be secure..

Phio · Oct 4, 2009

dombastic said:
can you imagine how chinese enter their characters?

here's an explanation of how Chinese type on the computer and cell phones:
Interesting Chinese: Typing In Chinese
No matter how you slice it, the outcome of whatever method used -- the text that appears on the screen is chinese.

wot · Oct 4, 2009

dombastic said:
can you imagine how chinese enter their characters?

My wife is Chinese, she seems to cope reasonably well with that strange foreign language. She is pretty good at Japanese, Thai some Greek and almost flawless English.

Amazing what some of these "foreign" people can do, she can even text quicker in Chinese than I can in English.

Surprisingly she is rather pleased that she can now type her own language in to her browser, some people are just so easily pleased, I have been typing English in for years, no big deal.

:wave:

dombastic · Oct 4, 2009

Phio said:
here's an explanation of how Chinese type on the computer and cell phones:
Interesting Chinese: Typing In Chinese
No matter how you slice it, the outcome of whatever method used -- the text that appears on the screen is chinese.

you link shows "Pinyin Entry"
most popular method

entering in latin characters

Phio · Oct 4, 2009

dombastic said:
you link shows "Pinyin Entry"
most popular method

entering in latin characters

yes, so you type in pinyin, but what shows up in the browser or search bar is Chinese characters.

dombastic · Oct 4, 2009

Phio said:
yes, so you type in pinyin, but what shows up in the browser or search bar is Chinese characters.

i know
(and i knew it)

Domainace · Oct 9, 2009

Here's why it doesn't matter that they type in romaji.

Take Nagoya eigyou Shigoto (maybe a bad translation, but it will serve...roughly Nagoya sales work)

They don't see the word as na-go-ya-e-i-go-shi-go-to, because the kanji/hiragana characters replace the romaji characters as they type. They never see this whole word in terms of romaji. In fact, most Japanese struggle with romaji - both writing and reading it.

In 1000 taxi rides in China, I met one driver who even knew a little English. I have no idea why he was driving a taxi. Do you think those other 999 drivers want to deal with roman letters any more than they have to?

To think that people would prefer a writing system other than their own is ridiculous on the face of it. When given a chance, the IDNs will dominate.

dombastic · Oct 9, 2009

Domainace said:
Do you think those other 999 drivers want to deal with roman letters any more than they have to?

i did not say "more than they have to"

and i am talking about the computer keyboard

Phio · Oct 10, 2009

interesting to ponder about those taxi drivers.

tonecas · Oct 11, 2009

this will go on and on and on... it's no use. prices are rising, interest in IDN is rising with government entities pushing this stuff but people don't seem to get it.

it's like the 90's where people were crazy to buy generics or simply english words/terms. or the late 90's and first years of this decade with 2 and 3 letter domains with absolute no meaning. who would want them?

The internet is one of the biggest revolutions in human history. And it is so under used right now. More than 2/3 don't know even what this is. It's incredible how it seems so hard to understand that 1,3 billion chinese, 1,1billion indians, 600 millions arabs and so many millions of people in countries like Turkey, Vietnam, Brasil, Mexico, etc, etc, that will enter the internet in a time were IDNs are becoming more mature and do not know how to speak or write in english will not find it intuitive to use their own language characters in domain names.

No one is saying that IDNs will overshadow ASCII domains. Only that they have an important role in things to come. A company that want's world reach will still use ASCII in their domain name. But for local branding/recognition OR for language targetting, even worldwide, IDN domains makes all sense.

ASCII was imposed to the world. I remember in early/mid 90's when i arrive to the Internet and tried to reach a site that used non US-ASCII and couldn't (like the character "ç"). I was puzzled when i need to right "c" int the domain name. If someone who speaks portuguese wants to built a site about "caça", wich means hunt/hunting, need to right it as "caca" wich means Shi*. It's very nice isn't it?

regards,
tonecas

dombastic · Oct 11, 2009

tonecas said:
It's incredible how it seems so hard to understand that 1,3 billion chinese, 1,1billion indians, 600 millions arabs and so many millions of people in countries like Turkey, Vietnam, Brasil, Mexico, etc, etc, that will enter the internet in a time were IDNs are becoming more mature and do not know how to speak or write in english will not find it intuitive to use their own language characters in domain names.

as i mentioned, most chinese enter chinese characters using latin characters
that is a fact
there are other methods too
but this is the most popular one

idn's under .com, .pt or .de are available for years
but we know how often they are really used

of course, idn's are great for russians, arabs, etc

and for chinese too, it is just funny to hear that they will not have to use latin characters
because they still prefer to use them to enter chinese

saucey · Oct 11, 2009

Well said!

Rep added.

tonecas said:
this will go on and on and on... it's no use. prices are rising, interest in IDN is rising with government entities pushing this stuff but people don't seem to get it.

it's like the 90's where people were crazy to buy generics or simply english words/terms. or the late 90's and first years of this decade with 2 and 3 letter domains with absolute no meaning. who would want them?

The internet is one of the biggest revolutions in human history. And it is so under used right now. More than 2/3 don't know even what this is. It's incredible how it seems so hard to understand that 1,3 billion chinese, 1,1billion indians, 600 millions arabs and so many millions of people in countries like Turkey, Vietnam, Brasil, Mexico, etc, etc, that will enter the internet in a time were IDNs are becoming more mature and do not know how to speak or write in english will not find it intuitive to use their own language characters in domain names.

No one is saying that IDNs will overshadow ASCII domains. Only that they have an important role in things to come. A company that want's world reach will still use ASCII in their domain name. But for local branding/recognition OR for language targetting, even worldwide, IDN domains makes all sense.

ASCII was imposed to the world. I remember in early/mid 90's when i arrive to the Internet and tried to reach a site that used non US-ASCII and couldn't (like the character "ç"). I was puzzled when i need to right "c" int the domain name. If someone who speaks portuguese wants to built a site about "caça", wich means hunt/hunting, need to right it as "caca" wich means Shi*. It's very nice isn't it?

regards,
tonecas

Domainace · Oct 11, 2009

dombastic said:
and for chinese too, it is just funny to hear that they will not have to use latin characters
because they still prefer to use them to enter chinese

Sorry, but this isn't connecting for me here. This is like saying most people prefer rubber tires on their cars. I mean, it's not a matter of preference if they aren't really given a choice.

They use latin characters because that's the easiest work-around so far. There are devices where you can use a stencil to write Chinese characters, and they have software to autocomplete each character and speed things up. And there may be other workarounds in the future.

Even if latin dominates the keyboard, it says nothing about people's language preferences. It just says there's still a gap in technology that needs bridging.

I just find it astounding that anyone can seriously believe that people would rather use unfamiliar foreign alphabets and languages rather than their own native language. The only reason IDNs don't dominate now is because:

1-People are not aware of them and
2- They are not fully integrated yet, and still incompatible with many browsers.

If you ask me, (and I'm giving you real ammo here, not a red herring) the real problem lies in adding subdomains and so on. As it is, you still have nativeIDN.com/roman letters, as far as I know. It needs to be worked out so that people can name their files naturally.

RTM · Oct 15, 2009

Interesting discussion, as we own fuer.net ... which is (amongst other usages) the German word "for"...

There are a bit over a billion results on Google for the term fuer. However those results include the German spelling of the word which is für.

When you run the same search for the term "fuer" (but in quotes) the number of results drops to 'only' 29,000,000...

dombastic · Oct 16, 2009

RTM said:
When you run the same search for the term "fuer" (but in quotes) the number of results drops to 'only' 29,000,000...

and what is so surprising or interesting?

most germans have german keyboards
so they write "ü"

their is no reason to write "ue" in the text (content of the pages)

url is a different story

German letter Ö, does it make it an IDN?

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