.mobi Who wants some new rules for the .mobi forum?

Good initiative, Reece...just 2 years too late...

dag said:

Good initiative, Reece...just 2 years too late...

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Sad but true.

look it's obvious when people are just here to bash. and it is so tiring to have to constantly justify .mobi. i am not a fan of idns or .tels, they have there cheerleaders and that's fine, but you'll never find me in their threads bashing them or their regs. i'm all for a balanced debate and i do take heed when looking at both sides of the equation. i still am not sold on an absolute .mobi future, it's the reason i've dropped 30-40 .mobis but i'm keeping 20-25, i still see the potential and have weeded out my collection accordingly. but i can tell you one thing's for sure, my drops had nothing to do with what the bashers had to say, it was strictly based on where i see the market going and how i now percieve my initial regs.

it's true that most have left this forum, but i do still see new members quite frequently. all this time i've never reported a post or put anyone on ignore... it's just a shame that we have to contsantly try to justify .mobi.

i dont mind naysayers at all since namepros is a general domaining forum.

whats lame is trolling and acting like you're not a naysayer... acting "concerned for the TLD" and baiting people with pointless questions that you dont really care about anyway. trolling is not really easy to define... you just know it when you see it.

threads like ".mobi supporters, step inside and sell me on it" make me laugh... what the hell would be in it for me to convince a fellow domainer that .mobi is completely awesome... im here to make money.. not do charity work for mTLD. make up your own mind... read the forum... lurk more.

Great post Matt, thanks for your contributing.

mjnels said:

i dont mind naysayers at all since namepros is a general domaining forum.

whats lame is trolling and acting like you're not a naysayer... acting "concerned for the TLD" and baiting people with pointless questions that you dont really care about anyway. trolling is not really easy to define... you just know it when you see it.

threads like ".mobi supporters, step inside and sell me on it" make me laugh... what the hell would be in it for me to convince a fellow domainer that .mobi is completely awesome... im here to make money.. not do charity work for mTLD. make up your own mind... read the forum... lurk more.

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namewaiter said:

look it's obvious when people are just here to bash. and it is so tiring to have to constantly justify .mobi. i am not a fan of idns or .tels, they have there cheerleaders and that's fine, but you'll never find me in their threads bashing them or their regs. i'm all for a balanced debate and i do take heed when looking at both sides of the equation. i still am not sold on an absolute .mobi future, it's the reason i've dropped 30-40 .mobis but i'm keeping 20-25, i still see the potential and have weeded out my collection accordingly. but i can tell you one thing's for sure, my drops had nothing to do with what the bashers had to say, it was strictly based on where i see the market going and how i now percieve my initial regs.

it's true that most have left this forum, but i do still see new members quite frequently. all this time i've never reported a post or put anyone on ignore... it's just a shame that we have to contsantly try to justify .mobi.

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Mike, thanks for posting. We obviously can't do much about those no longer with us, but as you said, we're seeing new members frequently and there are many senior members for which Namepros will always be home who are frustrated with how things have been going. I remember 2007 being a pretty rough year moderating this forum -- no shortage of people pretty much just posting here looking to start a problem.. In 2008, a lot of those causing trouble (on both sides) were dealt with and it seems that now in 2009 we're regressing back to 2007 levels in terms of baiting, flaming, trolling, and/or otherwise breaking the rules people normally follow here.

dag said:

Good initiative, Reece...just 2 years too late...

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I haven't seen much in the way of problems in .asia, .tel, ccTLD, IDN, and other speculative markets, so for the longest period of time, I've been of the opinion that things would eventually work themselves out. Hindsight is 20/20 and if I would have known we'd be experiencing the degree of problems in 2009 that we are, I would have made rule changes a long time ago. I do take full blame for not fixing a lot of the problems we have been (and still are) experiencing in the .mobi forum.

I'm not a .us investor (only have a few), but once in a while I'll peek in the Dot US subforum. No, not to voice my opinions and argue about it, but to check up on what's currently happening with .us as far as sales go, what current reseller prices are, maybe ask if a certain domain is any good, see if there's any exciting .us news, etc. I know the people there don't want to argue about the pros/cons of .us, and I have no interest in doing so either. So, I don't bring any negativity into the subforum. On the rare occasion that I'm there, I'm strictly there to learn.

Many may disagree with me, but I think that's what the .mobi subforum should be like. Strictly to learn, discuss news and developments, current reseller prices, end user sales, etc. No negativity should be allowed. That's not, imho, what this place is for. If you think .mobi sucks, sweet, I don't care, nor do I want to hear about it. If I've invested money into it, it's my own duty to research the pros/cons, etc, as I have done and am always doing. It's not your responsibility, or right (!!), to tell me that my investments suck. I own roughly 250 .mobi's, and I'm on the fence about how much I believe that .mobi will ever "take off".... BUT, my previous .mobi sales have already paid for my current 250 .mobi's. So anyone saying that I'm making bad investment choices if off their rocker.

Recap: This .mobi subforum should be (1) peaceful, and (2) for .mobi investors to learn, not defend. In other words, no "naysaying" should be allowed. I agree with some points that a couple of them have made, but that's not what this place is for. It's not like they've changed my opinion on anything.

If the .us subforum can be peaceful, so can the .mobi subforum.

It would be nice if there was more discipline in this forum, i would contribute alot more.

I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to voice what changes they'd like to see. As you all probably now know, Namepros will be undergoing a major upgrade April 30th - May 1st. Once that's done, I'll bring this thread to the attention of Namepros Management and see what can be done to make this forum a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

If anyone has anything else to add, do feel free to continue posting here

Here is a few,

1. Cut and pasted usage lists. How about an end to people posting the same cut and pasted post listing a whole lot of middle rung/inconsequential sites who use .mobi like purina, the bank of america and "high school musical 2 mobile version".

2. Wait a few more years arguments. "wait 2 more years" "wait 5 more years" (umm I think I know what these people will be arguing in another 2-5 years),

3. Comparisons to .com in the past. "Nobody even knew about .com in 1973, this is just like .mobi now!"

4. Superiority arguments. ie how .mobi is better than subdomains whilst forgetting that most sites now use subdomains for their mobile offerings.

5. Anything about .mobi being better than..... (.tel, .info, .biz, .us, .tv.... .com)

Seriously though, what is the point of trying to ban people trying to make certain arguments? Even if those arguments have been heard before is this a reason to block them?

snoop said:

Even if those arguments have been heard before is this a reason to block them?

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not really... and i see going down this road killing the forum completely since its a general domaining forum... all things should be heard.

that said... there is one persistent user on here that likes to act concerned for the TLD when really they're not. its a silly act and troll posts are completely useless and will ruin forums even more than censorship. the reason is simply because they are not being genuine about how they really view the TLD so no real discussion can ever happen.

snoop said:

Seriously though, what is the point of trying to ban people trying to make certain arguments? Even if those arguments have been heard before is this a reason to block them?

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Thanks for contributing Snoop. In the 2 years I've been a mod here at Namepros, I haven't played a role in the banning of any members here other than a few Viagra (and the like) link spammers and have gotten a few banned members unbanned. I think there are better ways to deal with situations than banning members (eg. deleting or editing posts, sending the member a pm and letting him know why his post was edited or deleted, informing the member of the Namepros rules or the rules of the sections I moderate, etc).

-REECE- said:

Thanks for contributing Snoop. In the 2 years I've been a mod here at Namepros, I haven't played a role in the banning of any members here other than a few Viagra (and the like) link spammers and have gotten a few banned members unbanned. I think there are better ways to deal with situations than banning members (eg. deleting or editing posts, sending the member a pm and letting him know why his post was edited or deleted, informing the member of the Namepros rules or the rules of the sections I moderate, etc).

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Hi Reece, I didn't meaning banning members, I just mean banning certain types of posts, deleting, editing etc.

Once content is edited because the viewpoint isn't appreciated by some (such on the basis of people having heard it before) the concept of genuine debate goes out the window, you'll end up with a forum to a large degree full of back putting and yes men. A major thing that does worry me in this thread is the suggestion that it is only negative posts that would be the subject of any rules. That said the whole concept of editing content because it is expressed a lot (on either side of the fence) is a bad idea in my view.

Well, that's the thing. Is this subforum for debates, or is it for learning about what's going on with the extension, how to develop good .mobi sites, etc?

The past two years have shown that neither side will budge and that the arguments will last til the cows come home. Debating about .mobi is 100% pointless, and the last two years have very clearly shown that.

I think you're a very reasonable member Snoop -- even when you don't agree with someone, you're always polite and you often bring up good points which might get missed by people who are too optimistic about market segments they're invested in. Even if I don't agree with you on something, I can respect your opinion and I certainly don't have a problem with members like that (sorry to single you out there).

Blocking out opposing viewpoints would in my opinion be doing a major disservice to new members. Sure we can all say they should do their own research, but we all know that a lot of new members won't and are liable to make investment decisions they later come to regret if every single post is about how great a certain market segment is.

Personally, I see threads of ".mobi doing much better than expected" equally, if not more problematic than the threads and posts which I've received many complaints about bashing .mobi. It certainly does work both ways and we really can't expect claims that ".mobi is doing much better than expected" to go unanswered from the large majority of members who don't see it that way. These are the types of posts and threads responsible for a disproportionate percentage of all .mobi bashing.

Personally, I have a lot of investments in short domains -- I can openly admit they have taken a nosedive since last year. One can be optimistic that things may change in the future, sure, but to say they're doing much better than expected at the present time doesn't make any sense in light of sales data over the past year which would clearly suggest otherwise.

snoop said:

Hi Reece, I didn't meaning banning members, I just mean banning certain types of posts, deleting, editing etc.

Once content is edited because the viewpoint isn't appreciated by some (such on the basis of people having heard it before) the concept of genuine debate goes out the window, you'll end up with a forum to a large degree full of back putting and yes men. A major thing that does worry me in this thread is the suggestion that it is only negative posts that would be the subject of any rules. That said the whole concept of editing content because it is expressed a lot (on either side of the fence) is a bad idea in my view.

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Egnited said:

Well, that's the thing. Is this subforum for debates, or is it for learning about what's going on with the extension, how to develop good .mobi sites, etc?

The past two years have shown that neither side will budge and that the arguments will last til the cows come home. Debating about .mobi is 100% pointless, and the last two years have very clearly shown that.

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I completely agree with this post of yours Tom. Pretty much everyone's opinions (other than new members of course) are already decided on .mobi and I doubt any number of threads praising it or bashing it are going to change the opinions of the people posting in these types of threads.

I would like to see more focus on what's happening in the mobile internet world myself -- news on how things are advancing, unbiased news related to the .mobi extension, and a greater focus on developing .mobi or other mobile-compatible websites. It does seem like the .mobi forum has a much larger percentage of web developers than most of the other forums on Namepros and it would be great to have a domainer forum here on Namepros which placed a greater emphasis on development.

imho...namepros started this problem by allowing mobi it's own subdomain. The mobi, tv, and dotus should be completely removed and the posts simply integrated into domain discussions.

Initially there was a lot of threads as the TLD was released but now...it's just a thread or two at best per week and it's the same arguments.

Why do these 3 extensions enjoy such top billing here to begin with?

I understand the need to keep things balanced, especially for the sake of those new to .mobi. I just wish we could do it without the stupidly repetitive arguments.

Is there a way to get around the latter? Who knows... I don't.

Yeah I have to agree Tom.

On some issues like the whole WURFL/redirect issue, m-dot versus .mobi, and the RFPs (and yes, I'm guilty of perseverating on this one ), there's really nothing left to say which hasn't already been said...

Egnited said:

I understand the need to keep things balanced, especially for the sake of those new to .mobi. I just wish we could do it without the stupidly repetitive arguments.

Is there a way to get around the latter? Who knows... I don't.

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labrocca said:

imho...namepros started this problem by allowing mobi it's own subdomain. The mobi, tv, and dotus should be completely removed and the posts simply integrated into domain discussions.

Initially there was a lot of threads as the TLD was released but now...it's just a thread or two at best per week and it's the same arguments.

Why do these 3 extensions enjoy such top billing here to begin with?

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In the case of .mobi, it's subforum was created for the very reason you described -- it was getting too many threads in domain discussion (the same reason we now also have a separate forum for short domains). Honestly, I think the controversy which still surrounds the .mobi extension would probably result in a whole lot more flaming, baiting, trolling if it were included in domain discussion. It's the kind of extension which really needs it's own subforum imo.

Honestly I read many times the discussions here, even if I am not invested in .mobi (own 0).

But as I see it, if the heated discussions would not be allowed, then there would not be much more left in this forum.

There is not so much news about .mobi and the mobile web to discuss about. I do not consider every small company launching its mobile site to be newsworthy. And those .mobi is doing much better threads as well as Why is there need for .mobi threads are exhausted.

I think rather than brainstorming on what should be left out in this subforum, maybe let's think what it should be like idealistically?

Egnited said:

Well, that's the thing. Is this subforum for debates, or is it for learning about what's going on with the extension, how to develop good .mobi sites, etc?

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Both I would hope,

http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=forum&search=search

Egnited said:

Debating about .mobi is 100% pointless, and the last two years have very clearly shown that.

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I disagree, personally I would hope that some people have avoided losing as much money as otherwise in this extension as a result of some of these threads.

i think that what really gets some .mobi "bashers" going are some of the .mobi "fanboys" (i believe that's the term). it's great to support an extension here and there, but if you're completely pumping an extension up that is generally not considered to be as good as it's made out to be, then people will step in and set things right.

i'm fine with hearing some good/bad points about .mobi, but going to extremes (on either end) is what turns the forum a bit hectic. some of the .mobi followers seem to simply have "faith" in them, and if that's the case, then perhaps all the .mobi threads should have one of those religious/controversial warnings at the top.

it would be nice if the far pro and the far con sides both take a few steps to the middle.

In the case of .mobi, it's subforum was created for the very reason you described -- it was getting too many threads in domain discussion (the same reason we now also have a separate forum for short domains). Honestly, I think the controversy which still surrounds the .mobi extension would probably result in a whole lot more flaming, baiting, trolling if it were included in domain discussion. It's the kind of extension which really needs it's own subforum imo.

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Yes but it's not like all the other subforums. It's top fold. Top left side of the fold...and it has an IMAGE! For heavens sake it's gotta be the #1 clicked link because of those reasons.

All the other subforums are pure text links. Mobi, TV, and US should be the same and maybe add other subforums for extensions. Certainly move the cctld below it.

Just create an Extensions section subforums for types like cctld (yes I know it exists), CNO, info,biz,mobi, or whatever...reorganize imho.

For a site called Name Pros it certainly at face value appears to highlight some unsavory extensions. TV? US? MOBI? These are all domains that are fringe players for domainers. Why are they so distinguished here? I always wanted to rant about that.

Alex said:

But as I see it, if the heated discussions would not be allowed, then there would not be much more left in this forum.

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Sadly that is the case today because the quality discussion has moved elsewhere and I doubt it would come back to NP. The need for new rules emerged a few years ago prior to the creation of the other forum when .mobi enthusiasts wanted to go beyond the mindless .mobi sucks/.mobi rules debates and be more proactive about .mobi. The classic example I saw many times was when members posted about their newly developed .mobi sites and some .mobi haters would come along and say why bother building a .mobi site at all. Or when a .mobi enthusiast is chastised for posting about a newly discovered .mobi site because some consider the poster a fanboy and the information as merely noteworthy rather than newsworthy. Unfortunately that's the culture here, forever locked in debate and unable to move beyond it as the .mobi enthusiast community desired.

Posts in blind support of an extension are far more damaging to members than an "extension basher" could ever be. A naysayer will never have an affect on the actual use of and market for a domain extension in the real world. However, allowing members to go over the top with wild speculation over the value of a new extension can directly impact the finances of inexperienced domainers who don't get to hear the other side of the argument. This pump and dump happens with every new extension. Even as values drop, someone who over-invested tries to convince a newbie why there is still great value and when a responsible member drops in to call BS, the bashing card is played.

It's nice to see the effort you're putting into this Reece

Unfortunately, as others have eluded to...I think it's too late.

It wasn't the naysayers. Nothing wrong with some balance.

It wasn't the cheerleaders. Nothing wrong with posting exciting "happenings" within the specific community.

We all know this place was single-handedly brought down to a mere shadow of what it once was by an untouchable concern troll who comes and goes at his whim.


Simply put, we tired of the antics and found a place where we could be constructive and helpful to each other.

I still love visiting Namepros and occasionally post a time or two. But I don't find the mobi section much interest anymore. I usually only join in when I see newbie posts asking questions. Too bad it got to this stage, but that's what tends to happen when things go unchecked for as long as they did. Bringing respectability back to this place, along with the core "followers" will certainly be a challenge, IMHO.