Your domains if you snuff it

[Kingslayer]

Bit of a grim subject to talk about, but it happens, so you have to talk about it.

I'm sure there's been many drops where people have not given any information to their family (e-mail passwords/domain passwords etc), passed away and domains have been dropped, therefore loved-ones losing potential 5/6/7 figure$ domain assets.

In the last hour I've put together a list with all my information (should have done it long ago tbh) and put it in a vault somewhere should i get hit by a lorry tomorrow.

Anyone else here made similar plans, still got it to do/not even thought about it?

 

[deez007]

First, there are things called 'backups'. If your domains are so valuable, you can use two email companies. You are just throwing out wild assumptions...the likelihood of some random girlfriend getting the email, understanding the importance of without ever being told, finding the piece of paper and then running off into the wild is probably less likely then being struck by lightning.
Second, I thrive on assumptions? As you sit hear and yell at me, making plenty of assumptions yourself that the OP and everyone else can do this. In fact, you even alluded that what you are doing is wrong by stating in one of your posts 'hypothetically speaking of course' with a smiley face. Maybe you do live in some less established country where this is legal, but in many countries, it is not.

So you are saying that these tax havens exist for people who belong to less established countries only?

Furthermore, I didn't want to point it out earlier cos it was not relevant at the time but now you seem to be stuck in a loop in your thinking caused from assumptions, yet again! So I will point it out to you now...

You have still not realized that there is a difference between personal income tax and business tax and a difference between business law and personal law. Based on your assumptions all Americans who make use of these tax havens are doing to so illegally, right? Or could it be possible, just maybe that these businessmen might, just have a better understanding of the tax laws OR they might hire business lawyers who have a better understanding of the tax laws than you do... or is it more likely that you have fully grasped the tax law from reading a few lines of text on the IRS website?

 

[todaygold]

So you are saying that these tax havens exist for people who belong to less established countries only?

Many established countries have laws either severely limiting or completely eliminating their use...as they should. Tax havens are only used by those with money who can afford lawyers to handle it...their only purpose is so those with money can skip paying their fair share of taxes, while those with less means have no choice but to contribute to their country.

You have still not realized that there is a difference between personal income tax and business tax and a difference between business law and personal law. Based on your assumptions all Americans who make use of these tax havens are doing to so illegally, right? Or could it be possible, just maybe that these businessmen might, just have a better understanding of the tax laws OR they might hire business lawyers who have a better understanding of the tax laws than you do... or is it more likely that you have fully grasped the tax law from reading a few lines of text on the IRS website?

Seeing as how many wealthy people, celebrities and politicians have been in the news lately after being arrested for hiding off-shore accounts and hiding their assets in other countries to skirt paying their taxes...I would say even they obviously don't understand the law...If the lawyers of wealthy individuals can't even get it right, I highly doubt the lawyer a typical middle-class citizen can afford can get it right.

 

[deez007]

Many established countries have laws either severely limiting or completely eliminating their use...as they should. Tax havens are only used by those with money who can afford lawyers to handle it...their only purpose is so those with money can skip paying their fair share of taxes, while those with less means have no choice but to contribute to their country.



Seeing as how many wealthy people, celebrities and politicians have been in the news lately after being arrested for hiding off-shore accounts and hiding their assets in other countries to skirt paying their taxes...I would say even they obviously don't understand the law...If the lawyers of wealthy individuals can't even get it right, I highly doubt the lawyer a typical middle-class citizen can afford can get it right.

Your understanding of the system is based on the severity of your "programming" if you are going to make arguments about the taxes being used to provide essential services and then further go on to say that those with less means will be taxed more, shows me that you actually have no idea how a tax system works....

Here is the tax system explained simply:
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/

The people you are talking about that have been getting "caught" yes are high-profile folks who have been practicing tax evasion... who ALSO happened to have offshore accounts in tax havens... These people you talking about that have been caught, was only a drop in the ocean..probably like 1% of the amount of money thats actually sitting in tax havens....

Let me also reiterate, you are still not seeing the difference between personal income tax and business tax.

Again, there is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices.

 

[todaygold]

Your understanding of the system is based on the severity of your "programming" if you are going to make arguments about the taxes being used to provide essential services and then further go on to say that those with less means will be taxed more, shows me that you actually have no idea how a tax system works....

The people you are talking about that have been getting "caught" yes are high-profile folks who have been practicing tax evasion... who ALSO happened to have offshore accounts in tax havens... These people you talking about that have been caught, was only a drop in the ocean..probably like 1% of the amount of money thats actually sitting in tax havens....

Let me also reiterate, you are still not seeing the difference between personal income tax and business tax.

Again, there is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices.

I did not say that those with less means pay more in taxes...however, someone with $1 billion, who essentially cheats the system to avoid paying their fair share of taxes is not looked upon too kindly by middle and low class income earners, aka the 'working poor' who pay their fair share of taxes, proportionate to how much they make.
Second, just because they have only caught a small percentage of tax cheats does not mean the other 99% are doing things legally.
Third, you probably don't understand the difference either. Even if it is business, if you are the sole 'shareholder' of this fake 'corporation', you are getting a distribution from the company as an individual and in most countries, would need to pay taxes on it.

 

[deez007]

I did not say that those with less means pay more in taxes...however, someone with $1 billion, who essentially cheats the system to avoid paying their fair share of taxes is not looked upon too kindly by middle and low class income earners, aka the 'working poor' who pay their fair share of taxes, proportionate to how much they make.
Second, just because they have only caught a small percentage of tax cheats does not mean the other 99% are doing things legally.
Third, you probably don't understand the difference either. Even if it is business, if you are the sole 'shareholder' of this fake 'corporation', you are getting a distribution from the company as an individual and in most countries, would need to pay taxes on it.

I have a solid understanding of tax laws. It is NOT a fake corporation for the umpteenth time, see what I mean when I say you are unable to read and comprehend!!! It is a legitimate company, that is operational. Whilst the company resides in a tax haven, I as an individual draw an income (salary/profit share) from the company... guess what that is? That is called my personal income... guess what happens to that money? it gets taxed!!!
Thats called personal income tax..., we live in the information age, there is no excuse for ignorance!

Again, there is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices.

 

[todaygold]

I have a solid understanding of tax laws. It is NOT a fake corporation for the umpteenth time, see what I mean when I say you are unable to read and comprehend!!! It is a legitimate company, that is operational. Whilst the company resides in a tax haven, I as an individual draw an income (salary) from the company... guess what that is? That is called my personal income... guess what happens to that money? it gets taxed!!!
Thats called personal income tax..., we live in the information age, there is no excuse for ignorance!

You sound like the ignorant one. You admitted it is a holding company...aka a shell company...do a little research on shell companies and tax fraud.
And you pretty much just admitted that you will be required to pay taxes, as I had said earlier.

 

[deez007]

You sound like the ignorant one. You admitted it is a holding company...aka a shell company...do a little research on shell companies and tax fraud.
And you pretty much just admitted that you will be required to pay taxes, as I had said earlier.

Holly Cow!!!

So a HOLDING company is a shell company? really? .... strange that, in my ignorance, I some-how thought that holding company generally means it's exactly that... a holding company that owns a few other smaller companies... according to you it's a shell company.., lol, "do a little research" u tell me? ...hahahah

Then you ranting on about me admitting to being required to pay taxes... dude!! go back to high school and ask your head master to please refund you all your school fees.. cos clearly you don't know how to read and comprehend... The business PROFITS are not taxable... but the salary or profits that are drawn by the individual is taxable.. again, for the 100th time... there is a difference between business tax and personal income tax..., I live in a country that is not a tax haven so I am liable for personal income tax on ALL my income.. the business is in a tax haven... it does not reside in my country... the country where the business resides in is a tax haven so it is not liable to be taxed. Or have you not figured out that that there is a difference between business profit and owners salary /profit share?

Its late, im going to sleep...wasted to much time on this thread already

 

[todaygold]

Holly Cow!!!

So a HOLDING company is a shell company? really? .... strange that, in my ignorance, I some-how thought that holding company generally means it's exactly that... a holding company that owns a few other smaller companies... according to you it's a shell company.., lol, "do a little research" u tell me? ...hahahah

Then you ranting on about me admitting to being required to pay taxes... dude!! go back to high school and ask your head master to please refund you all your school fees.. cos clearly you don't know how to read and comprehend... The business PROFITS are not taxable... but the salary or profits that are drawn by the individual is taxable.. again, for the 100th time... there is a difference between business tax and personal income tax..., I live in a country that is not a tax haven so I am liable for personal income tax on ALL my income.. the business is in a tax haven... it does not reside in my country... the country where the business resides in is a tax haven so it is not liable to be taxed. Or have you not figured out that that there is a difference between business profit and owners salary /profit share?

Its late, im going to sleep...wasted to much time on this thread already

I am glad I could teach you something. Feel free to do some research and you will see that a holding company is generally considered a shell company by most. Heck, even wikipedia discusses holding companies in it's shell company article.
What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on.

 

[deez007]

I am glad I could teach you something. Feel free to do some research and you will see that a holding company is generally considered a shell company by most. Heck, even wikipedia discusses holding companies in it's shell company article.
What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on.

Hhahaah listen, you clearly have no clue how a real business operates and have no experience or knowledge on the matter. Worse off if you quoting WIKIPEDIA as a reliable source of information.

Let me drop some education on you seeing as you so dearly need it. Go to this wonderful resource called Google, maybe you heard of it? .. head of over there and do a simple search for "HOLDINGS" take note of all the actual companies that are up and running and not shelf companies that are holding companies. Educate yourself stop speculating based on ur limited knowledge of things.

"What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on"

Are you serious? Are you really that naive or are you actually trolling this thread?

No, I have no intention at any point to take all the profit for myself.. I'm not going to sit here and explain my business plans to you but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that whilst you can draw a good salary from the business, you can also use remaining profits to diversify your income and investments... do you think all companies simply pay out ALL their profits every year to their shareholders?? be it 1 or 100 shareholders?? If you actually think that's how it works then boy oh boy...you have a lot of learning to do

 

[WatchDogue]

A good way to secure your assets, both physical and virtual is via a family trust. The domains can be added to the trust as well, along with plan of action to liquidate (with names and contact details of domainers/brokers that you know)

In a few months we plan to further discuss / establish a Trust with a Trust / Tax attorney with whom we are currently working with on another matter.

Our tentative plan is to have our domain names included as potential " gifts " to specific heirs which gives us more flexibility in adding / removing same from the Trust, subject to further legal advice.

Previously discussed how we will handle valuation of names and passwords etc in a " will " type post.

Overall consider the topic of domains and heirs a vital topic for serious domain folks.

 

[deez007]

In a few months we plan to further discuss / establish a Trust with a Trust / Tax attorney with whom we are currently working with on another matter.

Our tentative plan is to have our domain names included as potential " gifts " to specific heirs which gives us more flexibility in adding / removing same from the Trust, subject to further legal advice.

Previously discussed how we will handle valuation of names and passwords etc in a " will " type post.

Overall consider the topic of domains and heirs a vital topic for serious domain folks.

Nice!...that's certainly an interesting angle (Gifting the domains to specific heirs)

 

[WatchDogue]

Nice!...that's certainly an interesting angle (Gifting the domains to specific heirs)

Yes it is, I'm a lot smarter than I look!

Subject to legal review at the time of Trust establishment re the domains, we plan to have a list of various valued items that will be potentially gifted - note lots of disclaimers.

At present our understanding is an attached list ( to Trust ) re items / gifts allows flexibility / fluidity in gifting, such as adding or removing a gift or a recipient of a gift.

Also if " the end " was imminent most items can be lawfully given / gifted to a party at will and removed from Trust listing, subject to legal advice.

 

[deez007]

Yes it is, I'm a lot smarter than I look!

Subject to legal review at the time of Trust establishment re the domains, we plan to have a list of various valued items that will be potentially gifted - note lots of disclaimers.

At present our understanding is an attached list ( to Trust ) re items / gifts allows flexibility / fluidity in gifting, such as adding or removing a gift or a recipient of a gift.

Also if " the end " was imminent most items can be lawfully given / gifted to a party at will and removed from Trust listing, subject to legal advice.

I really like the flexibility your gifting idea offers... especially the flexibility of being able to add/remove a recipient from the trust. 10 points dude!!

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Hhahaah listen, you clearly have no clue how a real business operates and have no experience or knowledge on the matter. Worse off if you quoting WIKIPEDIA as a reliable source of information.

Let me drop some education on you seeing as you so dearly need it. Go to this wonderful resource called Google, maybe you heard of it? .. head of over there and do a simple search for "HOLDINGS" take note of all the actual companies that are up and running and not shelf companies that are holding companies. Educate yourself stop speculating based on ur limited knowledge of things.

"What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on"

Are you serious? Are you really that naive or are you actually trolling this thread?

No, I have no intention at any point to take all the profit for myself.. I'm not going to sit here and explain my business plans to you but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that whilst you can draw a good salary from the business, you can also use remaining profits to diversify your income and investments... do you think all companies simply pay out ALL their profits every year to their shareholders?? be it 1 or 100 shareholders?? If you actually think that's how it works then boy oh boy...you have a lot of learning to do

Please, please, whatever you do, don't stop!
You have no idea how much I'm enjoying this "discussion" you two are having here
(having gone my own few rounds with @todaygold in another thread )

 

[deez007]

Please, please, whatever you do, don't stop!
You have no idea how much I'm enjoying this "discussion" you two are having here
(having gone my own few rounds with @todaygold in another thread)

Bwhahahah it seems many folks here have been going a few rounds with him... probably has some low self-esteem issues.... lol. Maybe he needs a hug?

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Bwhahahah it seems many folks here have been going a few rounds with him... probably has some low self-esteem issues.... lol. Maybe he needs a hug?

@Eric Lyon: can we have a Hug button, in addition to the Like and Thanks buttons, please?

 

[deez007]

@Eric Lyon: can we have a Hug button, in addition to the Like and Thanks buttons?

Hhahahahah thats a good idea!...

Maybe in contrast just to balance the scale we should also have a button for "a running kick, f*ck slap to the face"

 

[168]

Todaygold,
If your american you may have more to worry about than shell companies
for 2016, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.45 million per individual, up from $5.43 million in 2015. That means an individual can leave $5.45 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. A married couple will be able to shield $10.9 million from federal estate and gift taxes.
14 states also have inheritance tax on top. The rate varies.
deez007 is absolutely correct if you have assets that could be taxable above the limits then at the very least a Trust or a Trust that "owns" a corp or LLC is appropriate for domain holdings. Trusts/Corps/LLC's are subject to different tax rates as I'm sure you know
that could lower the effective tax on assets. This is why trusts/corps are used. Nothing illegal at all.
Domains held for a long time would be treated as capital assets regardless of how they are held. When it matters is when they are
sold and what tax rate the heir might be subject to based on their current income and state they live in. Any solid business person worth their salt would address the issue prior to death for the maximum benefit of the lowest tax rate on the assets to their heirs. There is nothing illegal about using every possible tax rule to minimize tax.
Another reason to do this now is - If a person gets sued for any reason if the domains are not "held" in a separate entity they are subject to attachment for any judgment that may be levied against them. If one has a portfolio of any size or value if one ends up in bankruptcy, again one would be forced to sell often at wholesale to make other creditors whole.
If they are in a trust or established corp. then the suit or bankruptcy can't touch them.
This is how Trump has retained 100's of millions in assets while going thru many bankruptcies.
It is also common practice for real property flippers and landlords to hold each property in it's own corp. to "shield" it from any potential liability from the other properties. The same goes for corporations. They own separate corps. for the same reasons.
Recent example : Google creating a "Holding" corp. abc.xyz
Please don't bother with a rebuttal. Regardless of what anyone posts on forums like this, each person has the responsibility to do their own research to know what is actually truth. And I would guess the only concern for you at this time would be State inheritance tax issues.
Cheers

 

[HotKey]

Bit of a grim subject to talk about, but it happens, so you have to talk about it.
Anyone else here made similar plans, still got it to do/not even thought about it?

Death, taxes, and domain expiry, you just can't avoid. So you sure as heck better have something in place, similar to a will. For me, the domain's control go to a loved one. The plans I made include instructions on whom to contact here on NP for guidance, if needed.

 

[deez007]

Todaygold,
If your american you may have more to worry about than shell companies
for 2016, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.45 million per individual, up from $5.43 million in 2015. That means an individual can leave $5.45 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. A married couple will be able to shield $10.9 million from federal estate and gift taxes.
14 states also have inheritance tax on top. The rate varies.
deez007 is absolutely correct if you have assets that could be taxable above the limits then at the very least a Trust or a Trust that "owns" a corp or LLC is appropriate for domain holdings. Trusts/Corps/LLC's are subject to different tax rates as I'm sure you know
that could lower the effective tax on assets. This is why trusts/corps are used. Nothing illegal at all.
Domains held for a long time would be treated as capital assets regardless of how they are held. When it matters is when they are
sold and what tax rate the heir might be subject to based on their current income and state they live in. Any solid business person worth their salt would address the issue prior to death for the maximum benefit of the lowest tax rate on the assets to their heirs. There is nothing illegal about using every possible tax rule to minimize tax.
Another reason to do this now is - If a person gets sued for any reason if the domains are not "held" in a separate entity they are subject to attachment for any judgment that may be levied against them. If one has a portfolio of any size or value if one ends up in bankruptcy, again one would be forced to sell often at wholesale to make other creditors whole.
If they are in a trust or established corp. then the suit or bankruptcy can't touch them.
This is how Trump has retained 100's of millions in assets while going thru many bankruptcies.
It is also common practice for real property flippers and landlords to hold each property in it's own corp. to "shield" it from any potential liability from the other properties. The same goes for corporations. They own separate corps. for the same reasons.
Recent example : Google creating a "Holding" corp. abc.xyz
Please don't bother with a rebuttal. Regardless of what anyone posts on forums like this, each person has the responsibility to do their own research to know what is actually truth. And I would guess the only concern for you at this time would be State inheritance tax issues.
Cheers

Todaygold,
If your american you may have more to worry about than shell companies
for 2016, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.45 million per individual, up from $5.43 million in 2015. That means an individual can leave $5.45 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. A married couple will be able to shield $10.9 million from federal estate and gift taxes.
14 states also have inheritance tax on top. The rate varies.
deez007 is absolutely correct if you have assets that could be taxable above the limits then at the very least a Trust or a Trust that "owns" a corp or LLC is appropriate for domain holdings. Trusts/Corps/LLC's are subject to different tax rates as I'm sure you know
that could lower the effective tax on assets. This is why trusts/corps are used. Nothing illegal at all.
Domains held for a long time would be treated as capital assets regardless of how they are held. When it matters is when they are
sold and what tax rate the heir might be subject to based on their current income and state they live in. Any solid business person worth their salt would address the issue prior to death for the maximum benefit of the lowest tax rate on the assets to their heirs. There is nothing illegal about using every possible tax rule to minimize tax.
Another reason to do this now is - If a person gets sued for any reason if the domains are not "held" in a separate entity they are subject to attachment for any judgment that may be levied against them. If one has a portfolio of any size or value if one ends up in bankruptcy, again one would be forced to sell often at wholesale to make other creditors whole.
If they are in a trust or established corp. then the suit or bankruptcy can't touch them.
This is how Trump has retained 100's of millions in assets while going thru many bankruptcies.
It is also common practice for real property flippers and landlords to hold each property in it's own corp. to "shield" it from any potential liability from the other properties. The same goes for corporations. They own separate corps. for the same reasons.
Recent example : Google creating a "Holding" corp. abc.xyz
Please don't bother with a rebuttal. Regardless of what anyone posts on forums like this, each person has the responsibility to do their own research to know what is actually truth. And I would guess the only concern for you at this time would be State inheritance tax issues.
Cheers

Spot on mate... nicely explained and in detail.... thanks for taking the time to post.... Hopefully TG has the intellectual capacity to read an comprehend this...

 

[168]

I did not say that those with less means pay more in taxes...however, someone with $1 billion, who essentially cheats the system to avoid paying their fair share of taxes is not looked upon too kindly by middle and low class income earners, aka the 'working poor' who pay their fair share of taxes, proportionate to how much they make.
Second, just because they have only caught a small percentage of tax cheats does not mean the other 99% are doing things legally.
Third, you probably don't understand the difference either. Even if it is business, if you are the sole 'shareholder' of this fake 'corporation', you are getting a distribution from the company as an individual and in most countries, would need to pay taxes on it.

Based on your logic the entire population of america should boycott APPLE products and other global corporations for being a company that doesn't pay their fair share of taxes. They should also boycott Trump. Ain't going to happen in this lifetime. You also assume just because one owns a corp. they automatically "take" a distribution. Not so. One can benefit from corp. income in many ways that aren't categorized as a distribution subject to taxation. The corp. would be taxed on the income not the beneficiaries.
Example : If you receive medical benefits as part of your "compensation" the value of the compensation is not added to your income for tax purposes .At the same time, the corporation has the benefit of claiming the "value to you" as an expense deducted from the earnings resulting in less tax. Nothing illegal here yet both you and the corp "benefit" and zero taxes are paid on the value.

 

[168]

Spot on mate... nicely explained and in detail.... thanks for taking the time to post.... Hopefully TG has the intellectual capacity to read an comprehend this...

Thanks ! I feel for ya bro. Hopefully some day the newbies will be in a position to help as a result of our enduring........
I also have great lawyers
Cheers

 

[frank-germany]

that $400k is going to be taxed at around 30-40% so your next of kin is getting $120 000 - $ 160 000 LESS than what they should be getting, instead the government is getting your hard earned money because you decided to take the easy/convenient way out.

as far as I am informed there is no value in a domain
unless you sell it

so there will be no taxes to be paid until the cash flow happens

Am I naive?

 

[frank-germany]

so bottom line, everything I have stated is PERFECTLY LEGAL

you forgot to add:
in your country
( South Africa?? )

 

[deez007]

as far as I am informed there is no value in a domain
unless you sell it

so there will be no taxes to be paid until the cash flow happes

Am I naive?

Yes, there are no taxes until the transaction happens... this is exactly as I've mentioned in my comments..I think it's kinda obvious that it refers to when a domain is sold... I mean why else would there be taxes incurred?