NameSilo

Why I am bullish on .ORG: Plutocratic guilt!

Labeled as .org in gTLD Discussion started by Rob Monster, Nov 3, 2019.

Replies:
210
Views:
15,381

?

Are you going to be buying more .ORG in Q4 2019?

  1. Yup, quite a lot

    13.1%
  2. Yup, just a few

    43.4%
  3. No, been there done that

    13.9%
  4. No, and I will dump what I have

    15.6%
  5. This thread is stupid

    13.9%
Total: 122 vote(s)
  1. Ostrados

    Ostrados Entrepreneur Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    4L.org sales do not look promising

    Median price for 4L.org sales in 2019 = $25

    Untitled-3.jpg

    source: https://shortnames.com/llll/sales#3O

    This data is for all sales combined (end users+wholesale) where 99% of the sales were between resellers.

    If we take 4L.org sales reported by Namebio* in 2019:
    • Total sales: 308
    • Average price: $853
    • Median price: $249
    *Namebio only reported sales above $100, this data is presumably 90% end user sales.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    6,384
    Likes Received:
    13,097
    There are no ifs about .org as an investment. The rare categories I mentioned are not available for hand reg mostly.

    Is there anyone on NP that can say they have hand registered hundreds of .org names (at prices similar to being promoted) and have made meaningful profit from it?!

    I don't care from whom it comes, I don't care if it is registry pushing its .org promo or some hypers pushing sellout of chinese prem 5L .com, I will call BS when I see one.

    There is no need for newbies to learn the hard way.

    Here is the simple rule of thumb for you:

    - If you are new, stay away from everything else and focus on learning .com. Eventually, you might decide to venture into niches, probably subsidized by your .coms or might become a niche investor that has developed exceptionally good understanding of a niche, like new gtlds.
     
  3. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    5,505
    Likes Received:
    15,718
    Honestly .. part of my hesitation is that I simply don't have the data to feel confident ruling out .org. I simply made one really good .org sale based on a relatively small number of .org domains .. so despite being hugely profitable if I only look at my .org investments alone, really not enough data to say otherwise.

    I'm also similarly hugely profitable in .biz and possibly in .co (not 100% because I had more .co sales and more .co domains/costs) .. lol .. but all that is a result of also getting the best quality of each TLD for very good prices.

    There are many many different ways to be profitable in domains .. but unfortunately significantly more ways to lose money overall (which is what happens to most domainers).

    It's also because more and more I continue to see just horrible and worthless .com domains on display all over NamePros .. so I'm not as inclined as others to say definitely go for .com's first. Most established TLD's have a quality/cost threshold where long term profits are possible. In all honesty, it's probably a better investment for newcomers to focus on super-discounted one word .co's at $1 or $2 when on promotion then two-word .com's .. I did pretty well with such domains a couple years ago and made at least one $x,xxx .co sale this year, maybe two, and my .co portfolio is significantly smaller today than 3 years ago.

    But again .. I'll go one further .. if people are new they should not only not buy .org .. they should also not buy .com ... they should not buy any type of domain until they understand the fundamentals. For me the fundamentals of 2-word .com's are easier to grasp .. but I'm not sure if the same is true for people for whom English is not their first language where there are infinitely more potential mistakes with wrong combinations of multiple words that can't be made with single word non-com's (although indeed they can still get the wrong single words .. lol).
     
  4. Laguna

    Laguna Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Wow I've read the whole thread and am amazed at some of the .org example shown. 99% of them are meaningless. The first thing I think of when seeing a .org is charity and donation organizations but so far in this thread I've seen nothing remotely like this. I have GiveBuddy in the dot org. If I saw this written down,straight away I think of donation, charity, give to an organisation. Yet I'm told by a few np members it's worthless and to drop it. ( Of course I won't drop it I'll hold it 20 years if necessary) I'm just confused as to why a bunch of 4 letter random words are deemed more valuable than words with actual meaning. I don't get it at all. Now I have that off my chest I can relax and enjoy the rest of the day.
    Peace
     
  5. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    5,505
    Likes Received:
    15,718
    In my opinion, unless the 4 letters have a memorable combination or are clearly pronounceable .. then indeed you are correct and they aren't more profitable.

    4L have liquid value in .com .. but the reason for that defies logic .. and more importantly actually makes them less attractive as investors because the markup percentage is quite a bit lower in some cases (or at least compared to most of my .com acquisitions). I'm pretty sure there is no base liquid value in 4L .org domains.

    Let me be clear that while I say there's a possibility money can be made with .org .. I am very sceptical about those chances with 4L .org. But I do like my chances with some of the domains I mentioned further up (see original post for details) ...

     
  6. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    poll:
    which is true A or B?

    A)


    B)

     
  7. barman

    barman Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    897
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    I only have 3 .org domains. Maybe 4? One of them is emd .org though...

    I'm optimistic about .org... but certainly not bullish, as in, I'm not going to buy any more unless they totally make sense, but I do think the great ones will go up in value over time.
     
  8. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    That is a severe aspect of those promotions
    they are misleading inexperienced people

    Adam Dicker once had a domainers "school"
    at facebook. he was teaching people which domains are valuable

    I registered quite a few based on his ideas
    that I dropped later on

    Adam didn't make any money out of it
    as he wasn't selling his registrar service

    He by now is known as a bad guy
     
  9. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    whom do you want to fool?

    you are earning

    1) gaining new customers
    who will register other domains as well
    2) enhancing the value of epik as a company
    3) earning by renewals
     
  10. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    wow

    I'm impressed

    the first of Robs post
    were he experiences some
    wind

    thank you guys
     
  11. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    13,243
    Likes Received:
    36,248
    I like .org domains and it's because they do sell. Certainly I follow my instincts and stay within the general purpose of .org. However, I had a recent sale via FastTransfer that was notable because not only was it a .org, but I had just registered it 60 days prior. It sold for $1,xxx and the sale was listed on NameBio.

    Anyway, I keep names like UniversalCare dot org, CampaignTrail dot org, and many other .org names that I believe in.

    I am not actively looking for .org domains, but I won't be dropping my 3L .org nor my charity or medical .orgs.

    I have had .org sell for prices similar to .com. I too am bullish on .org.
     
  12. NickB

    NickB Aka MrAcidic Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    4,609
    I have a few .org now - most I like, some will be dropped. Not actively looking for anymore but if a good one comes into my vision will take an interest....

    I have made a first payment on a pure GEO (country.org) agreed a good price for it for both parties and plan to develop a tourism/travel site on it.
     
  13. Rob Monster

    Rob Monster CEO, Epik Epik.com Staff PRO Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    13,435
  14. MasterOfMyDomains

    MasterOfMyDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    4,399
    Likes Received:
    4,421
    Your poll doesn't include keep what I have and hope they sell.
    I have several city(small town).org populations around 10k
    Also have one word .com and matching .org medical term, never any bites, very common medical term that I personally deal with daily.
    Nothing on my wish list as i have never paid much attention to .org
     
  15. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    13,243
    Likes Received:
    36,248
    Also, I do get offers. Dictionary word names I have like timely .org get offers almost every month.
     
  16. NickB

    NickB Aka MrAcidic Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    4,609
    that is a nice name for .org :xf.smile:
     
  17. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

    Posts:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    14,769
    It is perhaps a good omen that the most recent NameBio Daily Market report has an .org in first place and two others in the top 10. I was surprised for the first one (5L that did not make sense to me) but on Googling it the potential end user is obvious.

    I personally do not plan to seek out short acronyms or last names in the off chance someone needs them, but I will look for dictionary words and two word expressions that mesh nicely with the .org organization sense.

    There has been mention that the sell through rate is lower for .org. I have to do the statistics well, but I am not sure that is right. I think if you compare the number sold to the number for sale, the ratio is pretty similar. I think (have not checked carefully) there are fewer very high value sales for reasons noted by others, so for those who sell only at say $4k and up I think it is probably true the sell-through rate is lower.

    If anyone brand new to domaining is reading this thread, my advice would be not to go out and register 100 of anything. Rather, spend time educating yourself. I know most will want to have some domains right off but pick carefully a very few to start and get proficient in creating landers, listing them on marketplaces etc. and analysis using NameBio, Dofo and other tools on what sells and what has more competition. Do a detailed analysis (yes an hour or more work!) on each potential domain name especially looking at who would benefit from the domain name (how big that market is) and what competitor domains there are available (uniqueness issue).

    Can a couple of .org be part of the domains you start trying? Absolutely in my mind, but pick them carefully after analysis. Also look at all of hand-registration, closeouts, NamePros for sale sections and registrar marketplaces in finding the best way to spend your money. And remember that making money at domains is not sure or fast or easy, so only invest what you can afford to lose.

    Sorry I realize that the vast majority of readers are more experienced than me, but the concern expressed, not just in this thread but across many, that we should be careful that new investors carefully consider all aspects is worth emphasizing. Sorry for the bold. Sorry to sort of interrupt a thread on .org to point out some important points about domain investing in general. Canadians say sorry too much :xf.grin:. Sorry about that :xf.wink:.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  18. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

    Posts:
    5,505
    Likes Received:
    15,718
    As a fellow Canadian .. I'm sorry about @Bob Hawkes being excessively sorry!
     
  19. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217
  20. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    13,243
    Likes Received:
    36,248
    It should go without saying that investment in any extension other than .com beyond the advised percentage of the overall portfolio size presents increased hold times, renewal costs, and overall increased investment risk.

    When we take real currency and convert into a digital asset, the goal should at all times be to increase the value of the investment. Increased risk should equal increased return.

    If there is little to no chance, based on average performance, of the asset appreciating, extra caution should be exercised.

    As an alternative investment to .com, expectations for .org should clearly be a long term hold.

    Translation: Invest in .org very carefully.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  21. Haroon Basha

    Haroon Basha IZUQ.COM VIP

    Posts:
    2,869
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    I just dumped nearly 60 .org names this month. The reason, I have had fed up with this once famous TLD .org. There was not a single .org sale I recorded during last three years time.
     
  22. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    13,243
    Likes Received:
    36,248
    Could you imagine outbound for .org? I cant see getting solid sales from calling non-profits.

    .org serves its purpose. There are some decent sales, but overall I personally keep only about 3% in .org.

    I really like .org but that's not a basis for sound investing.
     
  23. biggie

    biggie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    9,947
    Likes Received:
    9,863
    I agree
    it's seems OP can't start a real discussion, without promoting the service somewhere within

    it's getting to the point of disrespect, not only to the members, but to the forum as well
    also unfair to others, who have to abide by forum rules or have their posts closed or moved.

    Don't know why staff doesn't moderate these threads closer.

    imo...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  24. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    2,492
    There are three factors in play here:

    Quality

    Quantity

    and

    Suitability

    We all know that you can do better if you have Quality domains, although some people prefer to play the Quantity game by registering thousands of domains and even though those domains might not be of the highest quality, but they still manage to get a few sales due to the laws of probability, although you can only be successful with this method if you sell enough domains to cover the renewal of your very large portfolio, otherwise even if you have some sales, but at the end you might still be taking a loss.

    But when it comes to .org there is an additional factor that’s in play which is Suitability which in a way might be the most important factor. If you own the highest quality one word domains but which are not suitable to .org purpose and use then you might be scratching your head wondering why there is no interest in your domains. If you also own thousands of .org domains that are not suitable then the laws of probability that had worked for .com which gave you a few sales are not going to work for you in this case and eventually you are going to end up dropping the thousands of .org domains that you got thinking that no one can be successful with this extension.

    If you manage to get all three factors of Quality, Quantity, and Suitability right as only an experienced domainer (like Rob) might be able to do then the .org extension could be a viable choice for some to venture in.

    PS: as far as getting a bounty for domain suggestions, I believe that the person who has suggested a domain that has been sold to and end user later on should also get a percentage of the sale (between 10 to 25 percent) in addition to the $15 dollars finders fee that they originally got.

    IMO
     
  25. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    10,217

    I love to see proposals
    of what might be an interesting topic to be read

    I know alreay that epik is the best registrar under the sun
    and has a lot to offer


    but its getting harder
    upload_2019-11-4_18-17-33.png
     

Want to reply or ask your own question?

It only takes a minute to sign up – and it's free!
NameWorth
  1. NamePros uses cookies and similar technologies. By using this site, you are agreeing to our privacy policy, terms, and use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
Loading...