question What would you do in this case? Story on one issue that involves domain sale, transfer, two registrars, privacy, etc.

[infosec3]

This is about a domain name I have registered at registrar A. Several months ago, I sold that domain at auction on the sale platform of registrar B. Not a big sale, but I have to honor it. Registrar B asked me to transfer the name to them so they can give it to the auction winner. I attempted transfer, but registrar B gives me an error message, stating the domain is not eligible for transfer. I was surprised, because this name is about 16 months old (so, no 60-day lock) and it has been in my account with registrar A since I hand-registered it. In addition, the name is unlocked. There is no reason why the domain should not be eligible for transfer.

I called registrar B to ask what the issue is. They stated they had no idea and that I should contact registrar A (where the domain is registered) to ask them. So, I contact registrar A. They state that everything is fine with the domain and that it is ready for transfer, that registrar B is the problem. I call registrar B again. The agent I speak to, again, has no idea why this is happening, so he puts me on hold a few times to consult with others and promises that he has escalated the issue; that I will be contacted. However, many days pass and no one contacts me.

I call registrar B again. This time, a more helpful agent seems to be very eager to resolve the matter. Puts me on hold a few times and then tells me that the issue is that the domain name is under privacy, that in order to transfer it, I need to remove privacy. But I assure the agent that my account with registrar A says privacy is OFF. However, I check Whois and it shows under privacy. So, I contact registrar A again and ask them to remove that Whois privacy, which I never asked for or ordered.

After contacting registrar A, they send me a message stating they were changing the DNS for the domain and that it might take a few hours. Days pass and the name is still under privacy. I contact registrar A again. They acknowledge the contact and say that they are working on the issue and then write to me again a day or two later saying there is nothing they can do, that even with privacy, registrar B should let me start the transfer.

I responded to registrar A's message asking them why am I under compulsion to have that domain under privacy. A few days have passed and they have not answered.

So, months have passed since I sold this domain and these two registrars have been playing ping pong with me. I am considering now what my options are.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for reading and my appreciation for your response.

 

[infosec3]

It’s “ok”…

 

[Sutruk]

This time, a more helpful agent seems to be very eager to resolve the matter. Puts me on hold a few times and then tells me that the issue is that the domain name is under privacy, that in order to transfer it, I need to remove privacy.

OK, understood. Usually domain privacy is not an issue for transferring a domain name, from the last few years.

If NetSol is still requesting to not have the domain under privacy to start the domain transfer... well, they are a bit outdated, to say the least.

Nowadays almost every domain is under privacy settings, and many under compulsory privacy settings.

 

[enterscope]

Strange problem, only thing that should prevent a transfer is a lock.

 

[Sutruk]

So, not an easy solution. Registrar A is telling you that they don't turn off privacy whois, and registrar B is telling you that with privacy whois the transfer doesn't start...

You should tell Namejet the situation, as soon as possible, and what's the problem. Mainly to not end up banned by them for not transferring the domain name and not honoring the domain sale.

 

[tonyk2000]

SAV has responded today basically stating that they can’t remove the Whois privacy because by default they are the registrant, and my information is not sent to the registry (SAV’s information is…) and they directed me to their Terms of Service:

“You explicitly authorize us to act as your ‘Designated Agent’”

ICANN is of different opinion.

"Designated Agent" means an individual or entity that the Prior Registrant or New Registrant explicitly authorizes to approve a Change of Registrant on its behalf.

Nothing more. Ref: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

As such, Designated Agent is usable if there is an internal ownership change only. It has nothing to do with your ability to transfer the domain away, or with whois privacy.

In any case, if whois privacy is indeed an issue [which is unlikely imo, the 1st time I see this] and if you cannot remove it @ SAV - then I'd transfer the domain away from SAV to another registrar, remove privacy, unlock the domain and give netsol a new authcode. Just confirm with another registrar that they'll allow the domain to be unlocked and transferred away immediately, without 60 days waiting period [they can, but have no obligation to]

 

[DomainNature]

Yes there are such registrars, the transfer won't happen until you remove privacy not only domain lock, one such is GMO-z.com, most weird when i moved back to SAV I had same issue domains not transferring, SAV support told you have to disable WHOIS privacy at GMO-z.com side.
I moved some .net's to Doteasy and again had to disable privacy to be able to transfer them, i have think maybe this is some type of punishment because i transfer domains frequently, but what i can do i try to do economy no sales until today I only lose money, transferring means saving to me.

 

[tonyk2000]

By the way, if my memory serves me right, DAN marketplace stopped processing sales for SAV-regged domains some time ago. No detailed explanation was given. What if they experienced the same issue - corporate buyers purchased domains @ DAN, DAN received the domains via internal push @ SAV but could not deliver to preferred buyers registrars such as netsol or, as @iTesla mentioned, GMO-z or Doteasy? Just a theory. I'm not SAV customer, so no experience with them...

 

[infosec3]

By the way, if my memory serves me right, DAN marketplace stopped processing sales for SAV-regged domains some time ago.

You are correct. I once sold a name on DAN that was registered at SAV and, since the name was a recent hand-registration and DAN didn’t accept the SAV push, I had to wait about 40 days to transfer the domain.

 

[HotKey]

My exact request to them on my last communication was: "Can you redact the Whois information for the domain so it can show my information, because it is now redacted for privacy, which I never opted to. Why am I under compulsion to have privacy on this domain?" Their response basically says there is nothing they can do, that what they do by adding their details is done to protect registrants, because that way registrants can't make changes to the Whois information at the registry level, which triggers 60-day locks. So, the last paragraph of their latest message to me can be summarized as we are doing this for your on own good. You figure...

From a few of the responses on here, I take it having privacy ON isn't a hinderance to transferring domains for most registrars now. I have just always removed it from a force of habit, because it makes it simpler for them to validate ownership even though a transfer auth code is provided.

I think some registrars may still consider an update to your domain's contact the same as a fresh hand reg or recent transfer and thus put a 60-day hold on the domain. That could be part of the case here, regardless @Sav.com is still mandated to remove privacy from your domain if requested by you and thus eliminating the need for a "Designated Agent".

I don't understand why this is so complicated. Contact details and privacy on or off by the registrant is basic domain management and should always be under the control of the registrant.

 

[Nick R]

This is about a domain name I have registered at registrar A. Several months ago, I sold that domain at auction on the sale platform of registrar B. Not a big sale, but I have to honor it. Registrar B asked me to transfer the name to them so they can give it to the auction winner. I attempted transfer, but registrar B gives me an error message, stating the domain is not eligible for transfer. I was surprised, because this name is about 16 months old (so, no 60-day lock) and it has been in my account with registrar A since I hand-registered it. In addition, the name is unlocked. There is no reason why the domain should not be eligible for transfer.

I called registrar B to ask what the issue is. They stated they had no idea and that I should contact registrar A (where the domain is registered) to ask them. So, I contact registrar A. They state that everything is fine with the domain and that it is ready for transfer, that registrar B is the problem. I call registrar B again. The agent I speak to, again, has no idea why this is happening, so he puts me on hold a few times to consult with others and promises that he has escalated the issue; that I will be contacted. However, many days pass and no one contacts me.

I call registrar B again. This time, a more helpful agent seems to be very eager to resolve the matter. Puts me on hold a few times and then tells me that the issue is that the domain name is under privacy, that in order to transfer it, I need to remove privacy. But I assure the agent that my account with registrar A says privacy is OFF. However, I check Whois and it shows under privacy. So, I contact registrar A again and ask them to remove that Whois privacy, which I never asked for or ordered.

After contacting registrar A, they send me a message stating they were changing the DNS for the domain and that it might take a few hours. Days pass and the name is still under privacy. I contact registrar A again. They acknowledge the contact and say that they are working on the issue and then write to me again a day or two later saying there is nothing they can do, that even with privacy, registrar B should let me start the transfer.

I responded to registrar A's message asking them why am I under compulsion to have that domain under privacy. A few days have passed and they have not answered.

So, months have passed since I sold this domain and these two registrars have been playing ping pong with me. I am considering now what my options are.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for reading and my appreciation for your response.

I am happy to take a look into it and see what is going on. Can you DM me the domain name and your email address? In general at Sav, if the domain is unlocked and does not have a registry lock on it, it should be eligible to transfer regardless of if privacy is on it or not.

 

[branding]

By the way, if my memory serves me right, DAN marketplace stopped processing sales for SAV-regged domains some time ago. No detailed explanation was given. What if they experienced the same issue - corporate buyers purchased domains @ DAN, DAN received the domains via internal push @ SAV but could not deliver to preferred buyers registrars such as netsol or, as @iTesla mentioned, GMO-z or Doteasy? Just a theory. I'm not SAV customer, so no experience with them...

They don't take pushed domains at sav, if you can provide the Auth code, no problem.

 

[branding]

Probably an internal bug on your registrar of sorts, where updating the registry from private to public whois didn't push through and now causing consternation.

I just tried actually. Can't remove privacy.

Generally, privacy removed, unlock, and the 60 days hold removed. The other stuff isn't all that common as they are complications over and above straight do-gooder transfers.

Interesting they don't include the removal of privacy on that list.

Because the domain being under privacy should not be an issue. If sav is acting as a designated agent, see below, they should auto approve a change of registrant upon transfer.

"Designated Agent" means an individual or entity that the Prior Registrant or New Registrant explicitly authorizes to approve a Change of Registrant on its behalf.

Nothing more. Ref: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

As such, Designated Agent is usable if there is an internal ownership change only. It has nothing to do with your ability to transfer the domain away, or with whois privacy.

Edit:

Looks like we can remove privacy entirely. It's now showing up publicly on one of my domains.

 

[Nick R]

I just wanted to update this thread after talking to the OP. Sav does use a Designated Agent for registration but that has no impact on the ability to transfer the domain name. As long as the status is "ok" and the auth code is correct, the domain can be transferred. I tried to start the transfer at two other registers and did not experience any issues when they did the validation. There seems to be some old arbitrary policy at NetSol requiring that whois privacy be redacted before they will take the domain. We would love to be able to help but it's not Sav blocking any part of this transfer so our ability to do anything is pretty limited.

 

[infosec3]

UPDATE: This issue keeps getting stranger. Now, the domain has been transferred out without my permission.

A few days ago, I received a message from SAV stating that a transfer out to another registrar had been initiated. I immediately sent a message to SAV telling them that I had not initiated a transfer. I also went to my account and REJECTED the transfer that had been initiated.

In spite of that, I check my account today and see that the domain is no longer in my possession. I check Whois and see the domain is at GoDaddy, with privacy.

I have contacted SAV again today and I am waiting for a response.

 

[tonyk2000]

Providing authcode to the buyer would be somewhat logical thing to do if netsol has authcode but cannot transfer the domain. But why they did not notify you then... And, most importantly, why it was transferred so fast without 5 days window and without respecting your rejection...

 

[infosec3]

Providing authcode to the buyer would be somewhat logical thing to do if netsol has authcode but cannot transfer the domain. But why they did not notify you then... And, most importantly, why it was transferred so fast without 5 days window and without respecting your rejection...

Sure, but Network Solutions keeps sending me messages stating the domain needs to be transferred.

Since the domain disappearing from my account happened over the weekend and holiday, I will call Network Solutions today.

Very disappointed, especially at Network Solutions.

 

[tonyk2000]

Network Solutions keeps sending me messages stating the domain needs to be transferred

Very strange. Since this particular domain (and only this domain?) was magically transferred to GD, it is more likely that it has something to do with the namejet sale (and not that your SAV account was compromised), but I'd still check SAV login history (if available), change the password, set 2FA if not yet set, etc. Just in case...

Also, such a transfer to godaddy can happen for afternic BIN listings with fast transfer enabled. Did you list it on afternic earlier, was the listing still active? What if the domain was simply sold on Afternic?

 

[Nick R]

This one was on us. As part of testing to see what NetSol was not able to transfer the domain, we tried to start the transfer at Godaddy but did NOT hit submit. We don't know know why it was actually transferred but have reached out to infosec3 to push the domain to him. As a silver lining, this will allow him to transfer the domain to NetSol from Godaddy though.

 

[tonyk2000]

this will allow him to transfer the domain to NetSol from Godaddy though

... if and only if you manage to convince them to remove 60 days lock, which should now be in place btw.

 

[branding]

This one was on us. As part of testing to see what NetSol was not able to transfer the domain, we tried to start the transfer at Godaddy but did NOT hit submit. We don't know know why it was actually transferred but have reached out to infosec3 to push the domain to him. As a silver lining, this will allow him to transfer the domain to NetSol from Godaddy though.

So... You transferred a client's domain to your GD account? Crazy shit.

In what universe is this even remotely acceptable?

 

[Nick R]

This is odd because we didn't actually start the transfer at Godaddy, we just wanted to verify that the domain could be transferred and it was just NetSol rejecting it. How it was actually started is unknown to us and something we will be looking at. If the OP is unable to accept the domain at Godaddy (which is actually a benefit here), we will transfer it back to their account and just ACK the transfer. We are just waiting on their reply.

 

[branding]

How it was actually started is unknown to us and something we will be looking at.

Someone must have approved it... Craze stuff.

 

[infosec3]

I'm not even sure what to say at this point. I am doing my best to remain cool about it. Given the situation, now the domain will be locked for 60 days. I will reach out to Network Solutions to see if they can take it as a GoDaddy push. If not, I guess I am stock again. In my 13 years of domain investing, I have never dedicated so much time and energy to a single transaction.