question What is holding back demand for NewG's?

[Internet.Domains]

What is holding back demand for NewG's?

Is it lack of end user education? Premium renewals? The ability for renewal prices to skyrocket with no price controls? Something else?

NewG's have been out for a half decade now, yet they still have very little demand. The amount of sales by both monetary and volume metrics show there is little demand.

So what gives? What is holding back the demand for NewG's in mid 2019?

(Disclaimer: I am pro-NewG and own a few. I own enough, not to change a lifestyle, but to gain a better understanding.)

 

[BRANDERX]

1 word new gtlds are nice & make sense in some cases, but look at this nonsense

For two words or more, as long as there's a .com, they'll never compete.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

1 word new gtlds are nice & make sense in some cases, but look at this nonsense
Show attachment 120252
For two words or more, as long as there's a .com, they'll never compete.

$6.5 million dollars in registration and renewal fees for 100 years paid up front.

VS

.COM = 100 years x $20* = $2,000 in renewal fees

*rounded .com renewals up to $20/yr to adjust for any .com increases that may incur over the next 100 years.

Thus, with this model, anticipating at least a 100 year business span, one can buy and renew Car.Rent for $6.5 million.

Or, they could spend $6,498,000 acquiring a premium .COM, and putting the other $2,000 away for the next century of domain renewals.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for the interesting thread topic @Internet.Domains , and all of those who have replied. I agree that confusion and stability questions, along with the way many of them were promoted, or not, by registries all were problematic. Clear long term renewal caps, voluntary ones, would help.

I think more respect is the primary thing that is needed. The best way to get that for new gTLDs that operate in a niche is to get respected professionals in that niche to use them in real websites. Large sales, use by respected companies, stable registry operations, and the right kind of advertising may help build respect too.

At least in sales volume, the new gTLD have grown, but very slowly. NameBio stats

• 2018 $5.7 million volume
• 2017 $5.2 million
• average per year last 5 years $4.4 million

This includes significant registry premium in some cases, and not entirely clear if that has changed over the reporting period. Also, unless things change, this year so far is looking less good, although the recent sale of free(games) for $335,000 adds a boost.

It is my opinion that ultimately the value end of the market must grow first, and the more lucrative domainer end will follow. That is we need more $$$ sales to build common use of the TLDs. I believe there is evidence of this in other TLDs (like some of the general purpose country code) - low value sales grew prior to them becoming mainstream. The elimination of minimum commissions at Sedo (temporarily at least) may help the value end grow.

I think it was always somewhat misguided to view the new gTLD as alternatives to .com and country code. Rather, new gTLDs should be viewed as effective ways to do different things in an organization, such as market a specific product or service, or as ways to shorten and make higher impact URLs for use in social media marketing campaigns. I think they are also ideally suited for many non-business uses.

In addition to the many good reasons others have mentioned, I wonder if it is possible that part of the reason is that most of us who are selling primarily new gTLDs in aftermarket are simply not as experienced as those who are selling legacy extensions. I do realize that some experienced domain investors have tried selling new gTLD, but many never did in a significant way. I think those with a decade or more of sales experience are more likely to close deals for good values.

I think some new gTLDs, maybe even most, will achieve sustainable success (although it may take a long time). I think that the registries that held so many of the great names makes it difficult, although not impossible, to be successful as a domain investor in the extensions.

Bob

 

[GenericDomainz]

I think nothing holding interest. Just Fashion.

I think soon will be other Fashion, and there will be more 5-figure newgTLD sales.

For two words or more, as long as there's a .com, they'll never compete.

car.rent

Not too much good for $2k per year now.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Or, they could spend $6,498,000 acquiring a premium .COM, and putting the other $2,000 away for the next century of domain renewals.

Devil's advocate:

What will the world of internet and domain names look like 100 years from now?

Will .COM be what your grand parents and great grand parents used?

Is that a good thing, suggesting longevity?

Or will it be overplayed and considered old school. Maybe even a first generation, or legacy feel. Depending on what the next 100 year of internet technology brings us.

The other thing to consider is smaller sample sizes. In thinking how long will .COM dominate, in comparison to newG's making real traction.

I mean, if it takes 20 years for newG's to fully adopt, 20 x $65,000 = $1.3 million in renewal fees anticipating that point.

That's a lot of money to be tied up that long. Especially considering (I assume this to be true) the renewal rate can raise at any point, without a cap? Or is there a cap?

Regardless, I think some people are hedging (waiting) until newG's to pick up traction before investing. E.g. if you buy car.rent 10 years from now, you would save $650,000 in renewal fee's.

This might be a different equation for those with development purposes.

Could car.rent generate more than $65k per year in value from the name to justify the year expense?

Would $65k per year be better spent on development or other operational costs?

Given the high renewal, do they see this as a domain investment with reseller value?

Would this look good on a balance sheet for investors to understand?

Would the results differ if one was willing to spend $500k on .COM?

When I think of a start up car rental company, first think that comes to mind is Turo.

Turo, a company that's received over $187 million in funding with three acquisitions under their belt: Croove, Social Studios, Wheels.

Will they ever pivot to a newG such as car.rent?

Can they explain the $65k/year? Or is that an unnecessary burn at this point in time?

FWIW, Turo does own Turo.Agency (doesn't resolve for me) since 2015 but my guess is that only carries an estimated $20/year renewal unlike the some $500/year or so renew that accompanied the infamous Travel.Agency auction a few years ago (if memory serves correct).

So why the $65k year renewal?

Simply supply and demand?

Holding out for a big car rental company wanting to take a marketing gamble? If so, why charge an Enterprise or big car company like it such a premium given all the consumer awareness they could bring to the .Rent TLD should they implement it to their makreting strategies.

I wonder if the .Rent people would get creative with their negotiations, and be willing to wave their renewal fee's in exchange for equity stake in a funded development project wanting to use the name but can't justify burning operating capital on renewal fee's thus the requested partnership.

What's really going on with these $65,000/year renewal fees?

 

[tonyk2000]

What will the world of internet and domain names look like 100 years from now?

I'd guess there would be no domain names as we understand them today. And, actually, ICANN somewhat delayed this natural process by simply introducing new gtlds (big $$$ involved --> no modernization will be "allowed").

 

[DomainRecap]

In addition to the many good reasons others have mentioned, I wonder if it is possible that part of the reason is that most of us who are selling primarily new gTLDs in aftermarket are simply not as experienced as those who are selling legacy extensions.

The real problem is that the Registries themselves want to be domain investors and are withholding or taking back all premium domains and not only pricing them into the stratosphere, but also jacking renewal rates to unheard of levels.

There is no way to invest in something when you're already buying from an investor who prices his properties well beyond what the market will bear. Any investor who pays > end-user pricing is a sucker.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I'd guess there would be no domain names as we understand them today.

Please explain.

Are you suggesting this because of mortality rates?

In that most domainers, aged 15 to 105, won't live long enough to see what domain names looks like in 2119?

 

[DomainRecap]

What will the world of internet and domain names look like 100 years from now?

No way we make it 100 years, at least in our present state, so don't worry about it.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

No way we make it 100 years, at least in our present state, so don't worry about it.

No way we, as in domain names make it 100 years, in the present state?

Or no way, we, you and I as human beings, will be alive in 100 years?

Or no way, we, you and I as domainers, will make it. Suggesting domain name investing will be phased out?

 

[tonyk2000]

Please explain.

Are you suggesting this because of mortality rates?

Just the technical progress. Starting with implantable phones maybe. Also, different society, etc, etc.

 

[DomainRecap]

I am stating that due to climate change, rampant overpopulation, food shortages, dwindling resources, late-stage capitalism, and a growing gap between the rich and the poor, the human world as we know it will no longer exist in 100 years.

Our biggest problems then will probably be food, shelter, and cannibalism.

The upper crust of society already knows this, they just don't know when, which is why every billionaire on Earth has underground luxury bunkers, remote islands with support personnel and armed guards at-the-ready, and no matter where they are, a helicopter is fired up on a nearby roof.

These are not whackos, they are very intelligent people like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett and Mark Zuckerberg, who have the resources, have done the computer modeling and determined it's pretty well inevitable.

Billionaire bunkers: How the 1% are preparing for the apocalypse

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/doomsday-luxury-bunkers/index.html

Humans will be extinct in 100 years says eminent scientist

Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.

https://phys.org/news/2010-06-humans-extinct-years-eminent-scientist.html

 

[lambo.com]

It's hard enough for people to remember most 3rd rate dotcom domains.

Add in hundreds of extensions that will rarely if ever be heard of and I'd say it makes it harder, not easier.

People don't give a fck for candy pop tutti frutti ngtlds for the most part

 

[tonyk2000]

It would be interesting to convert this thread to "future predictions" discussion. Domainers are good investigators, it is a part of a daily job... Actually, should we continue, I'll be the first to report my own posts on this subject asking to move this part to a separate thread. And it will be active, as active as "free speach" threads, but much more friendly I hope

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Just remember that was initially part of a 6-figure purchase, so it's not like he made massive profits on it - he might have even lost money or broke even so far.

Excellent point.

Is there a public list of premium .games renewal fees? Or other TLD's for that matter?

When you say "might have even lost money", I assume you're referring purchase price + renewal fees?

 

[DomainRecap]

[QUOTE="Grilled, post: 7258515, member: 963724"When you say "might have even lost money", I assume you're referring purchase price + renewal fees?[/QUOTE]

Yep, total cost of the purchase.

 

[ivey]

They just need marketing. Domains in general just need to bee seen as cool, trendy and necessary. We need dope adverts in the domain space... and not the same boring stuff.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

I don't invest in nTLD Premiums...
All inquiries and sales were with standard domains.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

jacking renewal rates to unheard of levels.

What nTLDs exactly?
All nTLDs in my portfolio are within $5-25 renewal/transfer rate.
In other words: no higher than .io/.tv

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

I also noticed that with nTLDs I get significantly more inquiries from girls VS their activity in the legacy namespace...

 

[Chris Hydrick]

What nTLDs exactly?

The following seem to have the highest (in no specific order) regular renewal rates ..

.STORAGE

.THEATRE

.MOVIE

.JOBS

.GAME

.LUXURY

.SUCKS

.TICKETS

.HIV

.COOP

.REALESTATE

It would be interesting to analyze each registries purchase price of their respected gTLD and compare it to the the amount of registrations each has, multiplied by their renewal price.

As I assume some of these gTLDs are strategically priced high, understanding there will only be a finite amount of users.

Then there's the TLDs who cherry pick the good domains and assign premium figures such as the previously mentioned $65,000/year renewal for Car.Rent.

Flipping the script, if registries begin to get these high renewals for domains such as car.rent, does that cover enough of their operational costs to begin driving the cost of nonpremiums to that closer to .COM?

Or is there something more at play here (from a registries perspective) than supply/demand economics?

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

.jobs/.coop are legacy gTLDs.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

.jobs/.coop are legacy gTLDs.

Thanks for pointing that out. I simply went down the DomComp list and noted high renewal fee's.

Do you happen to know their renewal fluctuation over the years?

Wondering how much somebody would have paid into a .jobs domain of they've continually renewed it since their respected releases...

https://icannwiki.org/.jobs

https://icannwiki.org/.coop

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

If exactly, both are STLDs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsored_top-level_domain
I never registered them... but .jobs fee was always at $1XX yearly.

 

[DomainRecap]

.INC is the worst, a $3K renewal rate per year on ALL domain names.