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Verisign Blog Calls Us All "Domain Scalpers"

Labeled as news in Domain Industry News started by Bob Hawkes, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. alcy

    alcy Active Member VIP

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    exactly. it would be interesting to see what would happen to their stats and profit margins if all "domain scalpers" worldwide decided to respond to this by not renewing and not registering any .com names for couple years.

    perhaps then someone would understand and apologize for this childish name calling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  2. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    I have no idea if Verisign follows this thread, but if they do, I would like to seriously and politely suggest that they should take down their blog post and apologize to the domain community. I respect organizations who admit when they are wrong. If they do we should politely accept the apology and try to move on together to improve how the world uses domains.

    Bob
     
  3. TauseefKhan

    TauseefKhan Established Member

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    Here I am interested in sharing a story. The Internet has different versions. But, I am sharing this one

    "There was once a rich businessman with a broken beloved car. Despite several attempts, he was unable to fix the engine of that car. He called several engineers but no one was able to fix it. Finally there was an old mechanic who visited him. That old guy inspected the engine and asked for a hammer. On front side of the engine, he tapped few times with his hammer and brrroomm…brroom…It started Working!

    Next day, the old mechanic sent his invoice for $1000. The businessman was shocked.
    He said, “ This was merely a $1 job. You just tapped the engine with your hammer. What’s there for $1000 that you are asking?”
    The old mechanic said “ Let me give you a detailed invoice.”
    The Invoice read:
    Tapping the engine with hammer: $1
    Knowing where to hit the hammer: $999 !!! "

    I think, established domain investors are like that old mechanic who knows exactly which domain name may work well for the business. And, what they charge is for the expertize/thoughtfulness/forward thinking and not the original cost of the domain name.
     
  4. NameDeck

    NameDeck Established Member

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    Decided to get a whiskey instead of a beer. Not sure if that'll help the breathing eventually though :) Anyway, you are right ofcourse. It is the new economy causing this and domainers just decided to take the opportunity and play the game. Myself included ;)
     
  5. NameDeck

    NameDeck Established Member

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    Sorry for the late reply. Life got in the way, my baby daughter actually:)

    I could't agree more with your added comments and as always, I enjoyed reading another long ( ;) ) post. Keep them coming! Proper discussion and debate (in a civil manner) is highly underrated these days. Wether or not I agree doesn't matter, I always enjoy a well-founded argument. Besides, it's the arguments I don't agree on I learn from the most. They tend to make me question and rethink my own opinions. Self-reflection is everything!
     
  6. Mary Muse

    Mary Muse 800+ Blockchain Domains VIP

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    This was very tactfully done, and anyone who gives it leniency is backing it.

    So, that pretty much means down with Vsign until they make this right AND MORE.

    This is out of bounds. Just shows what abuse at the highest levels can spark.
     
  7. .X.

    .X. NameFeature.com Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I can only think of one word when it comes to this 'Corruption"
     
  8. ABP

    ABP New Member

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    As long as they (End user) buy my domain with my price. No matter what they call me, i'll say 'I Love You.." (y).
     
  9. Cal2

    Cal2 Established Member

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    What could be even more interesting is if domainers responded by becoming even more cautious and discerning, and kept registering, but only the domains that would likely sell - if they dropped or registered fewer of the ones with less chance of selling, but which they've been registering and holding till now. There's a limited # of decent/good domains for each category, and a Lot of mediocre to bad ones that fees are being paid on, that end users wouldn't want to build on, even for reg fee.

    I could also see more domainer business going to the new extensions, if doing business in .com is made difficult.
     
  10. Undeveloped

    Undeveloped Founder @ Undeveloped.com Undeveloped Gold Account

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    Verisign feels emboldened by the new contract they got. The namecalling of industry players in that blog post is also repulsive. It almost feels like they want to get in the secondary market themselves and are setting the ground for it.

    The timing is interesting as well. With all the new gTLD's launching you'd think they'd feel threatened, however, it seems they're not and betting big on .com remaining dominant for the long term. Their recent actions will backfire on them, it's now clearer than ever that they've become too dominant and are willing to abuse their position.

    It's good they're so transparently conveying how they feel about the secondary market. Now we can't say we didn't see it coming. It's up to us to form a strong union against them.

    Interesting times ahead...
     
  11. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    It's all politics, and they are HQ'd in the center of it. The swamp was never drained, the floodwaters if anything just inched a bit higher.

    Verisign is offering nothing new for the price increase it is being given, no concessions, they act as if they own the extension, they are simply are property managers who are trying to hijack the extension, most likely by making longterm promises.
     
  12. NorthBridge

    NorthBridge Established Member

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    Exactly
     
  13. wesley sweatman

    wesley sweatman durfer Blue Account VIP

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    verisign, because of their move to raise .com prices, are separating themselves and justifying the price hike. That is all. Justification being that we the scalpers get upset and they use their backdraft to punish us with what they are doing anyway. Blaaaaahhhh!
     
  14. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    I have spent some time developing a detailed response to the Verisign blog post. Since it deals with the broader question of what is the value of the domain aftermarket, I started a new thread for it. You can find it here:

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/why-we-need-the-domain-aftermarket.1108698/

    Welcome suggestions for improvements.

    Thanks,

    Bob

    ps here is link to the full article at NameTalent:

    https://nametalent.com/2018/11/why-we-need-the-domain-aftermarket/

    I know it's long, but you know me :xf.wink:
     
  15. MOTO

    MOTO Established Member

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    Maybe the ICA guy took the V job so he could be the domainers voice of reason within the company.
    Like an advocate or something.

    Maybe.

    - MOTO
     
  16. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    I think it is totally possible that he (who I don't know at all) perceived it as that, or maybe still does.

    The Verisign post as many have said in the thread is most surprising because it seems contrary to their own best interest. A significant number of their registrations would disappear if they really did persuade many out of the field (in many cases they would be picked up by individual collectors, but for sure some would not get registered).

    If they simply wanted to highlight the money going into different branches they could have done that with a less provocative post

    So they must have a deliberate plan that this is part of. Do they fear that ICANN will not go along with the increases? Has the .net agreement yet been modified or is it related to lobbying on that? Are they lobbying US govt for an additional modification of agreement that will give them the right to sell to end users directly and apply premium pricing to some domains?
     
  17. Fancy.domains

    Fancy.domains Golden bull of names Gold Account VIP

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    Haha, that is funny. Maybe she has been reading here?! Hi Jeannie! :watching:

    Why do you collect domain names (if you're not developing websites)? That will leave them off the market as well, with no option for potential buyers. :sneaky:
     
  18. namemarket

    namemarket Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Actually Verisign's post makes sense to them because they are pointing out to the public since so many domains sell for 100s or 1000s of times reg cost it's only fair the reg fees be a lot more by comparison. I am sure the end-game is no cap at all on yearly cost so they can charge say 10 million $ a year to renew google facebook youtube yahoo microsoft dell apple sex.com etc etc.

    They could base some of the renewal fees on or justify the fee from resale market date i.e. since Investor,com sold for 180k the renewal fee should also be 180k.

    It is amazing this Verisign monopoly is condoned and allowed by govt with a no bidding contract.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. jmcc

    jmcc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There was some mention that the rise of ccTLDs and new gTLDs impacted on .COM. The problem is that at a country market level, the momentum if shifting away from .COM TLD. This isn't due to the new gTLDs. It is due to business becoming more local and the best TLD for that, in many countries, is the local ccTLD. That's what is going to really hit .COM in the long term. It will manage to get a lot of renewals (think the blended renewal rate for .COM is over 70%). However, the recent targeting of the Chinese market with promotional/discounted registrations fees has created some instability in .COM and .NET. While .COM is large enough to cope, the .NET has been effectively in decline since 2010 or so. The whole idea of linking domain name speculation with the cost of domains is not very well thought out. Speculation is a necessary part of any healthy domain name ecology. Without it, there's no free advertising for the registry. The .COM and .NET TLDs are mature TLDs. They have different dynamics to a new gTLD or a ccTLD. The stability of .COM pricing meant that registrants could effectively plan for the future knowing that they weren't going to get hit with tiered pricing. If Verisign keeps coming up with such blog posts, it may eventually encourage registrants to consider other TLDs.

    Regards...jmcc
     
  20. Niraj Kumar

    Niraj Kumar Established Member

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    What is the percentage of domains registered/owned by domainers out of all the registered domains each year?
    My simple guess is there is huge number of end users who regsiter/own names but don't use it for any purpose and we domainers are registering or own less than 5% of all the domains .(My thoughtful guess, anyone please provide accurate data if you have.) So how we are scalpers exactly?

    If we are scalpers then what is verisign doing differently that we can't call them ScalperSign ? .com price can be $1 but it's almost $10 and increasing. What is the $10 work in it for which we're paying each year ? What is the pure profit margin of verisign in each domain registration?

    If we domainer don't register a name then what's the guarantee that the domain will be registered by the most deserving end user? Probably someone will register it and won't sell or use it as well.That will cause more trouble to the deserving end user who's looking to start business with strong mindset and great business skill. He will be able to raise fund as well, so buying names in resell won't be a trouble for him. Those with poor business skills or don't have money to buy domain in reseller won't survive even if he registers a premium name for $10.

    Also we as domainers play major role in safety & security of the domain industry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 10:55 AM
  21. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm wondering at what point Verisign consider someone to be a domain scalper. 1 domain, 2? Do all domains have to be used for a website? What about registering one purely for use an email address? If you buy a name at a premium and use it internally for your business, or hold onto names that relate to yourself, your hobbies or your business, are you a scalper then? What do they want?

    Surely the entire idea of having the domain name system the way it is, is to serve the community at large for whatever needs the market produces. And it does. Domain trade is a perfectly legitimate use and one that businesses and domainers have reaped the benefits from alike.

    Despite the price of .com being relatively low, not all domains are being sat on for exorbitant sums. Even if they are, they are worth that because the market dictates it. The alternatives aren't better, how can they fail to see that? Nearly all of the weird and wild gTLDs are a big flop because they hold the names to ransom. It stifles internet innovation at the source.

    You can't impose restrictions on what is already the most popular domain extension. It is so popular because of the free model that it was introduced under. In light of the gTLD failures, how can Verisign want to copy them, they can't expect .COM to continue to thrive without the same model as they currently have? Is their bottom line the only way that they measure the success of .COM?

    There's nothing worse than the thought that every domain is held back by one single organisation. It's like every house up your street being owned by the government instead of a house developer. No one likes house developers, no one likes the profits that they make, but it's sure as hell better to allow the market to self regulate itself than for some organisation that is butthurt trying to make decisions, without real competition trying to bolster their bottom line and only their bottom line.

    I bought most of my names from other "scalpers" and I'm not at all bitter about it. I bought them for a premium, sure, but I felt I was paying for something premium. I also respected the people that sold them to me for having the foresight to register them and to sell them to me. They can only keep them because they are cheap to maintain, if that goes out of the window then they really will end up out of reach to most people and organisations.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018 at 10:03 AM
  22. Addison

    Addison Established Member

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    My reply to Verisign and others...

    You're dead wrong:

    https://www.namepros.com/posts/6975341/
     
  23. Yusupbabay

    Yusupbabay Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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    I have wrongly invested my money in the domain business. because it turns out this business is not safe.
     
  24. Yusupbabay

    Yusupbabay Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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  25. Yusupbabay

    Yusupbabay Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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