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Unregistered Trademark. The death of domaining?

Labeled as question in Legal Discussion started by Avtar629, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    The title doesn't do the question justice.

    How can a domainer profit when all a potential buyer can do is claim "unregistered trademark" and then "Lanham act" because you reached out to them to try and sell the domain?

    When I see keywords like

    Lifi
    Beacon
    Bit
    Coin
    Virtual
    Reit
    Etf
    Biometrics
    Ripple
    Ethereum
    You
    Cheap
    Tube

    And all the other niches mentioned on here.

    It's standard operating procedure for any domainer to reach out to potential buyers who have similar keywords in their domain.

    All those people have to do now is just cry cybersquatting and take the domains legally? Saying they have been using the mark first?
    Without a trademark?

    Not only do we have to worry about registered trademarks. Now we have to worry about non registered trademarks?

    Is there any protection for the domainer?

    Worst case scenario? You can register domains but you can't do outbounds? Just sit and wait?

    This is very bad for domaining.

    What does this mean to domainers?
     
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  2. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I know you have posted some TM topics in the past as well, but I think you are a bit confused.
    This stuff is not black & white and TM have classes.

    There is a big difference between a TM and an enforceable TM when it comes to a generic use. You really think terms like "You", "Cheap", "Virtual", "Coin", etc. are protectable as stand alone generic terms, for the generic use?

    95% of TM squatting is obvious. Just look at a list of UDRP filed. The vast majority are slam dunk cases.
    Some fall into the grey area, which is a case by case basis.

    I think you are grossly overestimating the actual risks.

    Brad
     
  3. Dave

    Dave Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The following is my understanding of TM law. I am by no means an expert so please do not regard the following text as advice, I'm merely expressing my understanding of the matter.

    Trademarks have classes for a reason. The same word or phrase can be trademarked multiple times by multiple parties all with different operating trademark classes.

    I also believe trademarks are restricted to their jurisdiction (usually country). For example if you have a trademark registered in the UK it is only applicable to UK and not other countries.

    Domain registrants who own a domain name whereby the keyword(s) are also a registered trademark only need to be concerned in anyway if any of the following statements are true:

    • The registrant created the domain name after the trademark had been filed or status is approved/live
    • The contents or website of said domain are that of the class or classes a TM operates under. So for example if I have a trademark for 'Chunky Cheese' and I sell cheese, you can't be operating under the name Chunky Cheese whilst also selling cheese, within the same jurisdiction.
    • If you have content of any kind conflicting with TM classes. This includes advertising, parked pages and such.
    • If you knowingly purchased the domain with the sole intention of profiting of the trademark or to sell directly to a trademark holder
    If any of the above is true I think it could potentially be warranted as bad faith.

    Let's expand upon the example above. If you happen to own ChunkyCheese.com and it doesn't resolve, but another party has a registered trademark, they can't automatically claim they have any right to said domain name. They need to prove you are somehow using the domain in bad faith first. If you're not then in majority of cases you have nothing to worry about.

    Please note again that what I've written here is my personal understanding of the subject matter at hand. This is NOT advice. I am by no means a legal expert of any kind. I'm merely expressing my understanding.

    I think @jberryhill and I'm sure others are likely to have way more knowledge than myself of TM law.

    I too would appreciate others input on this.

    Thanks
     
  4. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    Thanks . I have to add that the key to the unregistered trademark owners winning case would be if the domainer reached out (innocently or stupidly enough) to the perfect buyer.

    I mean what domainer would not reach out to the perfect buyer for the domain they properly curated and chose to register for the sole purpose of selling to?

    I mean isn't that what domainers should do? Register the outbound.

    Please bear in mind I am talking about an unregistered trademark here not a registered one.
     
  5. alcy

    alcy Top Member VIP

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    sit and wait?
    lol
    sit and wait is what 95% of domainers do.
    though mind you the 5% that do outbounding are pretty firm on it.. and go as far as to say that if you're not doing outbound then you ain't a domainer... so don't be like them lol

    you can still be a domainer and not do outbound

    your title is misleading mate.
    there are 434343 threads on namepros in past 10 years that say domaining is death.. yet here we are...

    maybe it should say "is outbound dead? maybe."

    and yes I agree with you.. you do outbound.. you win some.. get few more sales.. but you expose yourself to stuff too... in the end, why its so hard to understand for people that if someone wants your name, they'll come and find you... the only requirement is a sale lander...

    your other option (I mean in general not you) is to bug the living crap out of people via outbound.. including your fellow domainer friends from np... and then get tm letters next day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  6. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    Thanks Brad believe me Brad . As someone who has surrendered several domains to TM holders. Plus as someone who actually registered a trademark myself for my company. I know about the goods and services.

    What triggered me posting this domain?

    Recently registered an exact match address like

    123broadway.com (for example)

    I read an article somewhere they will build something expensive on it.

    Reached out. Waited. Now I get sent threatening email to surrender domains?

    Trademarks are hands off now unregistered trademarks too?

    This is why I say domaining is dead.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that's done a "run and gun" when some new hot key term pops up like VR or Bitcoin or whatever.

    If all a buyer has to do is cry cybersquatting because you tried to sell them a domain that contains keywords that they have in their LLC or are an exact match for the address of their development or in their domain.

    What hope is there for the domainer? We will all just end up surrendering domains left and right because the risk of losing a lawsuit is too great.


    And if you can't do outbounds for risk of getting sued for cybersquatting for profit then again what hope is there?

    Might as well pack up and close up shop. Because buyers have figured out how to get our domains for free.
     
  7. Dave

    Dave Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I agree with @bmugford. I think you're being overly cautious for little reason. I come across many posts like this on here or something along the lines of "your name banana.com is trademarked! Grace delete it now!". It really isn't as simple as that at all.

    I'm by no means an expert, but again I must reiterate that in my opinion trademark holders don't have an automatic right to a domain name.
     
  8. forge

    forge Disligree VIP

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  9. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    L
    This is all true but I will say let he or she who has NEVER registered a TM issue domain whether on purpose or accident cast the first stone.

    Yes I have posted threads before. About TM issue domains before but I think most have minute differences here and there.

    You can't just collect ever TM issue thread I've written and roll them up in one ball and call it all the same thing .

    But I have bad memory so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll stand corrected.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    @bmugford wanted to comment on the below.
    "There is a big difference between a TM and an enforceable TM when it comes to a generic use. You really think terms like "You", "Cheap", "Virtual", "Coin", etc. are protectable as stand alone generic terms, for the generic use?"

    You are absolutely correct! Such words should not be protectable.

    But our opinions about it don't mean nothing when up against someone who is pissed that you own a domain they want and need but now they have to pay $5,000 for it.

    It costs them nothing to hire some hot shot lawyer to threaten you.

    At least as far as I know. When faced with a reasonable threat like that plus lack of TM law knowledge what choice does a tiny domainer have?

    What? Go Rambo and tell them "See you in court!"

    It's like a game of chicken to see who flinches first.

    I'm sure 9 times outta 10 domainer just hands over the domain. Why? Because there is a 50/50 chance of winning or losing.

    I wonder how many domains have been lost like this?
     
  11. hawkeye

    hawkeye Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Since 'you' always seem to be in or have some kind of TM drama quagmire with the domains you reg, why not do the same and defend yourself and your domains? (it costs 'nothing'!)

    or..

    Stop regging TM names. There's plenty of other types of domains to reg and sales to be had.

    or..

    Start another thread in a few weeks complaining (once again), about your issues with TM domains. :xf.rolleyes:
     
  12. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    Okay, but... if you're registering 123Broadway.com and then trying to sell it to 123 Broadway... you're kind of asking for it. No?

    I've been doing pretty steady outbound for close to three years now, and the worst response I ever got was, "I don't like the idea of paying someone a lot of money for a domain name." But I stick to generic names of goods and services when I'm doing outbound.

    If you want to avoid conflict, avoid marketing conflicting names.
     
  13. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    Why not spend just a few of those hours that you spend searching and registering domains getting to grips with the 'Basics' of TM Law, It all makes for reasonably common sense. Besides, there's plenty of businesses out there that themselves don't have much of a clue about what their protection rights are and are just as likely to over-reach on that afforded protection.

    Why play a game if you haven't much of a clue about the rules (analogy)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  14. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Now there's a good question.

    I don't have time to give Avtar a personal course in trademarks. Then again, I'm not an expert in bird identification. Fortunately, one doesn't need to be an expert in bird identification to get a reliable idea of whether one might be looking at a penguin or a peacock, since they are easy to tell apart. The expertise comes in when it is a more difficult problem. So, if you don't know the difference between, say, a crow and a raven, then stick to penguins and peacocks.

    But don't spend your time complaining, "Ravens and crows are both medium sized black birds! How can anyone tell the birds apart! This is madness!"

    What I suggested to you earlier, and what you seem resistant to wrapping your head around despite probably hundreds of posts I've written on the subject here at namepros, is that you need to forget what you think you know about trademarks, and come to grips with a basic understanding of what a trademark is. You can click on the link in my signature here and it will lead you to - literally - hundreds of legal cases in which I represented a domain name owner (and the occasional trade mark owner) in a dispute. Many of those were cases in which a common law mark was asserted. So, please, just because a concept is new to you, does not make it either new or the "death of domaining".

    But what do I know, right? I'm just a guy who studied this stuff for a long time, and has been exclusively working in intellectual property matters since 1992, and then fairly exclusively in domain/trademark matters since 1998. Feel free to ignore me and believe whatever suits you.

    I don't know what "now" is doing in your sentence. Common law trademark rights are certainly enforceable. Again, your basic problem arises from not having ever reflected on what a trademark is. In the US and other common law jurisdictions, a "trademark" does not come about from applying to a government office for a certificate.

    A trademark arises from the use of a word/symbol/logo/whatever in commerce on goods or services which provides the function of distinguishing those goods or services from those of others in the relevant market for those goods or services. If you want to, you can then go obtain registration of that trademark, which makes it easier to prove certain elements of a claim if you want to sue someone. In the US, if you sue someone for trademark infringement using a common law mark, you first have to prove that you have a valid trademark, and that the other side knew about it. If you have registered your mark, then the registration serves as presumptive evidence of the validity and ownership of the mark. Registration also provides 'constructive notice' of the mark, as your competitor is deemed to have known about the registration. So, registration provides a lot of advantages.

    What registration doesn't do, and never has done, is establish a trademark in the first place. That's been your primary mental block for, gosh, as long as you've been posting nonsense here.

    So, let's take your street address example.

    There is an interesting building in New York City at 20 West 34th Street. Now, "20 West 34th Street" is of course a street address, and that's pretty much all it is. I'm pretty sure that, so far, you have no idea what is at 20 West 34th Street. Neither did I until a few moments ago.

    However, the building at 20 West 34th Street is a very famous building, with a very well-known name, owned by a private company which provides leasing and other services that it advertises using the name of that very famous building. You probably have no idea at all what is at "20 West 34th Street", but I guarantee you have heard of the famous building, the name of which is certainly used as a trademark.

    In that example, "20 West 34th Street" is merely a street address, with no particular significance to anyone. It is not used as the name of the building. It is not used in advertising promoting the building, the leasing services, or indeed the tourist attraction which is heavily promoted as the "Empire State Building".

    Word Mark EMPIRE STATE BUILDING
    Goods and Services IC 036. US 100 101 102. G & S: REAL ESTATE SERVICES, NAMELY THE MANAGEMENT AND LEASING OF REAL ESTATE. FIRST USE: 19310501. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19310501
    Registration Number 2413667
    Registration Date December 19, 2000

    Now, there are a couple of things worth noting. Since you've probably read virtually none of the hundreds of posts I've written here, one important thing to note is that they claim to be the successors of people who have been at it since 1931. One of the things that helps make a trademark distinctive is how long the mark has been predominately associated with a particular source of the goods or services. So, something like "American Airlines" which is American, and an airline, has become distinctive since they too have been at it since the 1930's.

    Okay, so, let's take a stroll uptown from the Empire State Building and consider something like 30 Rockefeller Plaza.

    30 Rockefeller Plaza doesn't have another name, but is frequently shortened to:

    [​IMG]

    As "30 Rock", it is well known as the headquarters of NBC, and was used as the name of a TV series spinoff from Saturday Night Live. It was a TM for the series title, for sure, and may well be used by the building management as one.

    Another example is the building where my former firm is located. I used to work at 1601 Market Street in Philadelphia. It's across the street from an office/condo/shopping complex and tower called "Liberty Place". Now, "Liberty Place" is certainly used by the folks across the street as a mark for their various services, but what about 1601 Market?

    Well, okay, spend a minute (since I sure am) taking a look at this website, and tell me what you think:

    http://1601-marketstreet.com/

    Let that front page load and what do you see? Would you say that "1601 Market Street" is used:

    (a) merely as an address to indicate where the building is located, or
    (b) as an indicator of the brand of leasing services available?

    If you have a hard time choosing between (a) and (b) there, then do yourself a favor and find another hobby. Perhaps birdwatching might suit you better.

    And if all this is "TL;DR" for you, then stop asking impulsive questions if you don't want answers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  15. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Here's a good exercise in separating penguins from the other birds.

    If you remember the Sesame Street game of "one of these things is not like the others", have a look at that list. As a very rough cut, one of those things is not like the others. Do you know which one it is?

    For those unfamiliar with the game, it is played like this:



    One of the things on that list is completely unlike the other things on the list in a very important way. If it is not obvious to you, stop domaining.
     
  16. frank-germany

    frank-germany F1lter.com xpired domain search engine Gold Account VIP

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    I can't tell please help


    maybe
    Ethereum
    guess thats a TM

    or
    Beacon ?

    or

    Biometrics
    as its the longest


    no idea

    ----

    I got it
    Ethereum

    its no dictionary word

    right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  17. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Nailed it, Frank.

    All of the others have some kind of non-specific meaning in a trade sense.

    Even something like "ETH" has multiple meanings:

    https://www.acronymfinder.com/ETH.html

    ...including things for which it is a generic indicator.

    And "lifi" is obviously not associated with a single vendor of products using light for computer networking, as a simple Google search shows.

    Now, that's not really about whether "Ethereum" is, or is not, a trademark. But as a first pass, "is this more likely to be a penguin or a peacock" kind of question, an initial important observation is that it is not a dictionary word or a common acronym, but it is an invented word used by its creator to refer to one thing in particular.

    And, again, that's not to get into issues of whether it is a trademark, whether there is some sort of fair use, or implied intention for others to make nominative use, and all sorts of complicated theories that one can get into. But from a very rough-cut "I'm not too sure about trademark laws, but that name stands out from the others as 'different' in a way that might be significant", that's exactly the kind of observation a domainer should get skilled at making.

    I'll say a little more about ETH, though. As Frank probably knows, ETH is a very well-regarded technical university in Switzerland. So, if someone wanted to register ETH.tld, then it would be important to make sure that the domain name was parked in association with one of the meanings of ETH as a generic acronym (i.e. a short indicator for 'ethernet'), or pitched for sale as a "three letter domain name" per se, to avoid any potential for confusion with the university in Switzerland.

    Another thing that can matter is that if the registrant lived in Zurich and had a technical degree, it could be a very different circumstance than if the registrant is a chef in Chicago. A UDRP panel might infer that a technical graduate in Zurich is more likely to know about ETH the school, than someone with no reason to know. All the facts matter in these things.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  18. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    that is not my sop.net

    imo….
     
  19. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    Since we're talking about specific addresses now. At the risk of sounding like "well they jumped off a cliff so will I".

    There's two addresses that got me into address registration.

    11BeachSt.com seems to be owned by MediaTemple.net not by developer.

    But this wasn't reg recently.

    And then there is 60water.com owned by Rode advertising. They also own 325lex.com

    Both agencies seem to provide a complete package. Domain hosting webdesign.

    Wouldn't these agencies be liable for TM infringement?

    As far as my current thread. Can a domainer's defense be that the address exists in other states?

    I'm going to mention this.


    An unregistered trademark is a mark that has not been registered at the U.S. Patent andTrademark Office (or at any of the statetrademark offices). Owners of unregistered trademarks nevertheless have legal rights within the geographic areas in which they operate.

    My focus now is on "within the geographic areas in which they operate."

    If it can be proven that 123main.com exists in every state in USA is that a defense?

    Or is mere act of reaching out un- defendable? C

    lts for Rode advertising
    ==============

    There are 141 domains that matched this search query.
    These are listed below:

    Domain Name Creation Date Registrar
    10lennox.com 2018-04-18 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    10lenox.com 2018-04-18 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    10lenoxcentralpark.com 2018-04-18 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    10lenoxcondos.com 2018-04-18 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    10lenoxresidences.com 2018-04-18 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222e44.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222e44th.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222east44.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222east44street.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222east44th.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    222east44thstreet.com 2016-04-05 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    30lincoln.nyc 2014-10-08 GO CHINA DOMAINS INC
    325condominiums.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325condos.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lex.com 2013-10-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexave.com 2013-10-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexavecondominiums.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexavecondos.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexavenue.com 2013-10-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexcondominiums.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexcondos.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexingtoncondominiums.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexingtoncondos.com 2014-04-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    325lexnyc.com 2013-10-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    42hotel.com 2018-02-16 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    42hotelbrooklyn.com 2018-02-16 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    4tsbryantpark.com 2017-06-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    50w23rdflatiron.com 2014-07-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    60waterst.com 2014-06-10 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    75kenmare.com 2015-11-24 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeebergen.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeebuilding.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeecliffsidepark.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeecoop.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeecoopnj.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    apogeenewjersey.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirjc.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirjerseycity.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirjournalsquare.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirnj.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirrentals.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    avenirresidences.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    bristolplaza.nyc 2014-10-08 GO AUSTRALIA DOMAINS INC
    bronxvillemetropolitan.com 2014-04-14 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    bryant42.com 2017-06-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    claridgehouse.nyc 2014-10-08 GODADDY.COM, INC.
    continuumwp.com 2016-09-29 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    courtneyhouse.nyc 2014-10-08 GO MONTENEGRO DOMAINS, LLC
    exhibitrentalsnyc.com 2014-08-12 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    exibitdowntown.com 2016-05-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    galerienyc.com 2017-02-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    hjkitchenusa.com 2016-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    inflatablearena.com 2017-01-30 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    kenmare.nyc 2015-12-09 GODADDY.COM, INC.
    kenmarebykravitz.com 2015-12-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    libertyluxegreen.nyc 2014-10-08 GO CHINA DOMAINS INC
    libertyresidences.nyc 2014-10-08 GO CHINA DOMAINS INC
    libertyview.nyc 2014-10-08 BLUE RAZOR DOMAINS, INC.
    liveatstuart.com 2016-07-12 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    liveatstuart.net 2016-07-21 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    liveatsummitnyc.com 2016-10-06 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    liveindumbo.com 2014-06-10 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    lunalic.com 2015-03-23 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    metropolitanbronxville.com 2014-04-14 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    metropolitanbronxvillelofts.com 2014-04-14 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    metropolitanloftsny.com 2014-04-14 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    metropolitanwestchester.com 2014-04-16 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    milford.nyc 2014-10-08 GO CANADA DOMAINS INC
    milfordbatterypark.com 2014-09-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    milfordmanagement.nyc 2014-10-08 GODADDY.COM, INC.
    milfordreferrals.com 2014-03-14 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    milfordrental.com 2014-07-21 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    milfordrental.nyc 2014-10-08 WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.
    milfordrentals.nyc 2014-10-08 GODADDY.COM, INC.
    milstein.nyc 2014-10-08 GODADDY.COM, INC.
    milsteinproperties.nyc 2014-10-08 GO FRANCE DOMAINS INC
    milsteinrental.com 2015-05-19 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    milsteinrentals.com 2015-05-19 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    newcenturymiami.com 2018-03-13 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    no75kenmare.com 2016-03-22 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    nycsummitrentals.com 2016-10-06 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    piersnyc.com 2017-06-20 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    portimperialus.com 2017-05-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    portimperialusa.com 2017-05-09 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaybrooklyn.com 2017-09-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaybrooklynheights.com 2017-09-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaynyc.com 2017-09-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaytowerbrooklyn.com 2017-10-24 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaytowerbrooklynbridgepark.com 2017-09-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaytowerny.com 2017-10-24 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaytowernyc.com 2017-10-24 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    quaytowerresidences.com 2017-09-15 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    rentatsolarinyc.com 2017-09-20 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    rentexhibitnyc.com 2014-08-12 GODADDY.COM, LLC
    renttheexhibit.com 2014-08-12 GODADDY.COM, LLC
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  20. Avtar629

    Avtar629 MarketDN.com Gold Account VIP

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    Reverse Whois results for Coldwell banker residential brokerage
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    There are 1,174 domains that matched this search query.
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    100somerwynd.com 2013-05-17 ENOM, INC.
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  21. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    “All content © 2019 ViewDNS.info”

    While I don’t quite understand the point of your data dump, I love that you also copy the notice that says not to copy their output.

    Extra class points there, Avtar.
     
  22. golan

    golan GolanMedia.com Gold Account VIP

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  23. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    Holy thread pollution, Batman!

    @Avtar629 - Instead of going to all this effort, have you checked to see how often address domains sell in the aftermarket?

    I have no idea if they sell or not... I just think all this TM business is a moot point if the name is a dud anyway.
     
  24. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Bingo.


    Avtar, if the idea here is that someone is going to sift through all that crap and figure out which ones might or might not be a trademark, consider the invitation declined. A large number of the domain names you posted aren't even addresses in the first place but are <telephone area code> + <generic>. For example "415carpets" would refer to carpets in the San Francisco area.

    I get that precision thinking and making fine distinctions aren't your thing. But aside from whether or not any of the things you posted are, or are not, used as trademarks, there is also the question of how these other entities respond when a claim is brought to their attention.

    Those familiar with what I've done over the years know that I've worked for many of the largest and most successful domain portfolio owners.

    If you have thousands of domain names, which you may have accumulated through portfolio purchases, automated processes and other mechanisms not amenable to a fine-grained review then you will attract a fairly regular stream of trademark claims. What you do when you receive one is you investigate the claim, make a decision, and where the claimant has a decent point, you transfer the domain name to them.

    Do you think I've won hundreds of domain disputes because I have magical defense powers, and can win a case no matter what the facts?

    Or do you think that maybe I'm good at advising domain registrants on which ones are worth fighting and which ones are not?

    Okay, okay, so the way you're going to do this - with outbound sales, no less - is that you are going to find a property where the address is used by the developer or owner as a mark for the property, say "77SunsetStrip.com". Let's further assume that address is an office tower in Los Angeles which is used as a mark, and that they also own the rights to the old TV series by that name and use the theme song to advertise it. Additionally, the address corresponds to an Exxon gas station in Phoenix, and a suburban ranch house in a low income section of Fort Lauderdale.

    You are going to send a targeted solicitation to the people who own that property in Los Angeles offering to sell them a domain name they don't want. Annoyed at your spam, they are going to tell you to transfer the domain name because they are using it as their trademark.

    Your defense is going to be "but it's a gas station in Phoenix and a ranch house in Florida!"

    My first question is going to be, "Did you try to sell the domain name to them too?"

    And if your answer is no, then it's going to be pretty obvious that your "defense" is just bullsh*t. If the address is in a lot of places, then why were you trying to sell it to only one of them?

    Whatever point you are trying to make with geographic range on common law marks is a mystery to me. If you are soliciting business in that geographic area - i.e. by writing to these people in the first place - then you are bringing yourself into the relevant jurisdiction by directing your activity there.

    In any event, I believe I've wasted enough of my time on this one.
     
  25. dande

    dande Premium Domain Names VIP

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    I think domainers are being heavily persecuted by ICANN and Co. We are not seen as real business people who deserve to make profit. We are seen as objects to be trampled on at will.

    Maybe it's time to setup a Union and demand for inclusive legal framework.
     

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