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This train has probably left. Domaining... as in starting right now from scratch.

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twiki

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I think it's too late for someone to start domaining these days.

( Yeah, I know a few might eventually succeed - but that'll be quite rare, I think. )

I mean, what are the odds now for someone who has no skills but just the will to try it?

I started domaining just a few years ago. But then, it was still the real bonanza. Whatever you had, it sold. Price high, price low, nevertheless it sold. That's how I made it into profit in my third year, gradually improving.

Auctions were cheap, domains were cheaper, drops were full of juice. Closeouts, good stuff still falling through the net for us to grab.

Not anymore. 2022 came and passed.

Everything is overpriced now, people probably holding stuff waiting for better times OR for future plans, who knows. And yeah it's clear that you can't make a living when buying domains retail price from the market. You might recoup the monies in a few years, who knows, but it's too risky. And you'll have the money locked in it. And unless you have the $ to buy few high-value names, you are going to also burn money in renewals.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining. This isn't about me. I'm alright, and at least in portfolio quality I'm definitely seeing betterment. And yeah, it's also not about the top investors who are still rolling cash although the numbers have diminished a little lately.

It's about someone new, willing to take the plunge and start today. I really don't see it to happen. The sales squeeze means that growing portfolio in the first place from $500 and some beginners luck ain't going to work anymore.

You need a serious budget to start with. And some itch to see it all spent soon...? And you need to make that budget triple at least; as for the next few years you're going to burn through it like there's no tomorrow. And after those years, maybe then, you're going to finally see the end of the tunnel that is the current market and if you have improved enough, then maybe, just maybe you'll see some return on all this hard work, money spent and risk taken.

I look at these guys and dunno if I should encourage them or tell them what they are getting into, and what are the odds.

Your thoughts?
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
One of the greatest common errors in this, is buying a name which might have an end buyer.

If you don't know exactly who, and for what, right there ... you're buying the wrong domain.

( Ugh, I see this too often... even daily here on NP )
Except lots of stinkers with no real end users sell, purely due to the 'collector's item hype surrounding them, e.g. NNNN/5N names.
 
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One thing I am very happy of, is the following.

The current market puts more pressure on all of us to improve. I'm happy to be on this path, even though it's not easy.

Note, this stuff doesn't work without sweat in.
 
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People keep posting nonsense threads - Wasting other people time and confuse newbies.
 
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The off topic posts dont help either john.
Painful reading this thread.

If I had to start all over again I would scan thru the 100K names that drop everyday. I have no doubt I could find 2-10 names a day to hreg. Let's say I only find 1 a day to hreg. No problem. I would buy it then immediately look for buyers and email and/or cold call them for the rest of the day and until the next days drop then repeat the same process. So every day I'm in for $10 and attempting to flip each name for at least $500 and go as low as $100 if needed. Super low risk and could even be done while holding a full time job (using all your free time). The only question is how badly someone wants it. Eventually it can grow into it's own fulltime job with buyers coming to you..
Twiki is talking about people with no experience, someone with no skills.
We have the skills because we have the experience.
My answer to OP question is no.
You have to be a salesman to succeed in domaining these days, buying average domains, parking them and hoping someone has the same epiphany as you but will to pay 100x more than you did, is a lottery ticket.
Its pretty bad the quality of names we see on here now compared to the old days.
Most dont even make sense let alone have chance of selling.

👉This is My opinion only not that other members, staff, mods, modbots, tech guy/gals or any one of epik’s 29 reps on here.👈
 
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Twiki is talking about people with no experience, someone with no skills.
We have the skills because we have the experience.
I had no experience when I started with the exact method that I outlined here. Yes having experience makes it easier for me now but there is only one way to gain that experience. People will complain every year that it is getting impossible to start, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you had started 3 years ago you would have 3 years of experience to help you, two years, one year, same thing. Success is not for excuse makers, never will be.
 
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Find another mode of transportation..
 
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One of the greatest common errors in this, is buying a name which might have an end buyer.

If you don't know exactly who, and for what, right there ... you're buying the wrong domain.

( Ugh, I see this too often... even daily here on NP )
What if one can spot only 2 or 3 buyers (low end users like- personal sites, mom-pop sites, web designers, photographers, landscaping , other Geos etc). ?
My question is while picking drop regs, how important is the number of potential buyers and the quality of buyers ? (also count buyers from non US locations)
 
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I think it's too late for someone to start domaining these days.

( Yeah, I know a few might eventually succeed - but that'll be quite rare, I think. )

I mean, what are the odds now for someone who has no skills but just the will to try it?

I started domaining just a few years ago. But then, it was still the real bonanza. Whatever you had, it sold. Price high, price low, nevertheless it sold. That's how I made it into profit in my third year, gradually improving.

Auctions were cheap, domains were cheaper, drops were full of juice. Closeouts, good stuff still falling through the net for us to grab.

Not anymore. 2022 came and passed.

Everything is overpriced now, people probably holding stuff waiting for better times OR for future plans, who knows. And yeah it's clear that you can't make a living when buying domains retail price from the market. You might recoup the monies in a few years, who knows, but it's too risky. And you'll have the money locked in it. And unless you have the $ to buy few high-value names, you are going to also burn money in renewals.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining. This isn't about me. I'm alright, and at least in portfolio quality I'm definitely seeing betterment. And yeah, it's also not about the top investors who are still rolling cash although the numbers have diminished a little lately.

It's about someone new, willing to take the plunge and start today. I really don't see it to happen. The sales squeeze means that growing portfolio in the first place from $500 and some beginners luck ain't going to work anymore.

You need a serious budget to start with. And some itch to see it all spent soon...? And you need to make that budget triple at least; as for the next few years you're going to burn through it like there's no tomorrow. And after those years, maybe then, you're going to finally see the end of the tunnel that is the current market and if you have improved enough, then maybe, just maybe you'll see some return on all this hard work, money spent and risk taken.

I look at these guys and dunno if I should encourage them or tell them what they are getting into, and what are the odds.

Your thoughts?
Fact is there is just too much great quality dropping ,domain reg prices and renewals are going way up ,not enough people in this industry to absorb supply. This being the case if your willing to put in the hours and only accepting quality drops,You will have a great portfolio that should be north of 4% sell through rate.
This also requires knowledge ,so you much see what is selling in the current market and catch the beginning of long term permanent trends.
 
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There are nuances in what I've posted that might need a bit of further detail here.

For example. The budget is now a must. And a significant one, 5-figures at least if you ask me. That's different from before. Few years ago you could grow it organically over several years. But not anymore.

The math doesn't add up anymore. Also the sources have dried up. Not for pros, of course, but for a beginner? Yeah, chances are slim to none.

Side note this is my third day in a row, with no names captured at drop. This has never happened before, and to me, it tells a story. Anyway.

Domainers here who made a good living before, that I've talked to, now have their boat taking water. Simply put, at this time they just hope to keep as much as possible of their portfolios, until better times arrive. Replacing with far better names? That's tough when everything is overpriced AND your sales are down as well.

Domaining, like stocks, is growth-driven.

In times of growth, we thrive. In times of recession, we don't. I've already encountered many folks here who cut portfolios down, and simply hoping to ride these murky waters with what's left.

Those names ... many will still be valuable later, once this period passes. But right now, many are probably a weight that drags you down to the bottom of the lake. And they can't keep them. So portfolios will be trim to the lowest level possible, based on cash available. Both from sales and, perhaps, even your own savings... if you know that name has a future and are willing to bet on it.

It is true one can start a business anytime. It is also true that there are opportunities even in negative growth times. This has been said a lot here, and I definitely agree. But what differs now, is the likelihood, the chance of getting it right, and the percentage of those who might eventually succeed. That number is trimmed down a lot right now.

What I am saying is that, again, the math doesn't check out anymore - for most beginners. And might not check out for the next few years as far as I can tell. Or get worse, who knows.

If I'd start today, to be honest I would likely not be able to make it to see the light at the end of the tunnel, financially speaking.

Also. It's easy to speak from our position of domainers with experience. But I see these fellows trying, and I know they don't stand a chance. That has also changed. The chance was in just a couple years ago, you only had to see through the names and figure out the process right. Not anymore, if you ask me.
There are nuances in what I've posted that might need a bit of further detail here.

For example. The budget is now a must. And a significant one, 5-figures at least if you ask me. That's different from before. Few years ago you could grow it organically over several years. But not anymore.

The math doesn't add up anymore. Also the sources have dried up. Not for pros, of course, but for a beginner? Yeah, chances are slim to none.

Side note this is my third day in a row, with no names captured at drop. This has never happened before, and to me, it tells a story. Anyway.

Domainers here who made a good living before, that I've talked to, now have their boat taking water. Simply put, at this time they just hope to keep as much as possible of their portfolios, until better times arrive. Replacing with far better names? That's tough when everything is overpriced AND your sales are down as well.

Domaining, like stocks, is growth-driven.

In times of growth, we thrive. In times of recession, we don't. I've already encountered many folks here who cut portfolios down, and simply hoping to ride these murky waters with what's left.

Those names ... many will still be valuable later, once this period passes. But right now, many are probably a weight that drags you down to the bottom of the lake. And they can't keep them. So portfolios will be trim to the lowest level possible, based on cash available. Both from sales and, perhaps, even your own savings... if you know that name has a future and are willing to bet on it.

It is true one can start a business anytime. It is also true that there are opportunities even in negative growth times. This has been said a lot here, and I definitely agree. But what differs now, is the likelihood, the chance of getting it right, and the percentage of those who might eventually succeed. That number is trimmed down a lot right now.

What I am saying is that, again, the math doesn't check out anymore - for most beginners. And might not check out for the next few years as far as I can tell. Or get worse, who knows.

If I'd start today, to be honest I would likely not be able to make it to see the light at the end of the tunnel, financially speaking.

Also. It's easy to speak from our position of domainers with experience. But I see these fellows trying, and I know they don't stand a chance. That has also changed. The chance was in just a couple years ago, you only had to see through the names and figure out the process right. Not anymore, if you ask me.
Yep, the maths doesn’t add up. I wrote a post about it, when it suddenly clicked that it would be virtually impossible for me to make any money, unless I had some to start with.

I tried, none the less, to see if it really was the case, and it has been. I have over 150 domains. I’ve sold two, for a total of $60. STR is about right, but the total sales needed to be over 1k to cover renewals.
I have posted a large amount of my portfolio on here, afternic, Dan, Brandpa and squad help. Nothing else has sold.
13 years ago I was going to start buying more domains, but thought I was too late. Now I know I am. I’ll just hold on to the domains I love. The rest will be dropped.
 
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The off topic posts dont help either john.
Painful reading this thread.


Twiki is talking about people with no experience, someone with no skills.
We have the skills because we have the experience.
My answer to OP question is no.
You have to be a salesman to succeed in domaining these days, buying average domains, parking them and hoping someone has the same epiphany as you but will to pay 100x more than you did, is a lottery ticket.
Its pretty bad the quality of names we see on here now compared to the old days.
Most dont even make sense let alone have chance of selling.

👉This is My opinion only not that other members, staff, mods, modbots, tech guy/gals or any one of epik’s 29 reps on here.👈
Twiki, definitely don't pay attention to Mr/Mrs Master of His/Her Domains.
They are specialized in 4 word domains 🤣
 
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What if one can spot only 2 or 3 buyers (low end users like- personal sites, mom-pop sites, web designers, photographers, landscaping , other Geos etc). ?
My question is while picking drop regs, how important is the number of potential buyers and the quality of buyers ? (also count buyers from non US locations)
This was my strategy. In reality (and hindsight), these people dont understand the value of a domain and they will just create one with a million hyphens, numbers etc, rather than pay
 
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I completely agree with Twiki, there are no cheap, value purchases anymore and no point really in investing a shitload of money to buy 5 or 10 great domains to keep on shelf just in case someone buys them.
Loads of great domains remain unsold for decades.
This recession is here to stay for the long term. New domainers, sorry, come back in 5 years.
 
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People buy and sell lots of things and flip them. The first buyer is what you sell too. What about best buyer? That is your job.
 
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I think there are plenty of brandable .com domains available in closeouts right now for $50 that can be resold for $2500. I think buying 100 of those for $6000 is not a huge investment.

On the much lower end, I also think you can register 100 decent .xyz dropped domains for $200 and sell at least a couple for a small profit before dropping the rest.

Finding them is a grind and I think benefits from a strong grasp of native American speaking (because that's who is buying the names). When you're looking for brandable names being able to know which names "feel right" is the key skill. There's a lot of good names that won't show up on keyword lists getting dropped all the time.

For those with enough capital and patience to hold, there are still plenty of big opportunities to be had just like there were 10 and even 20 years ago, but you're going to have to blaze your own trail. 20 years ago you could grab .coms for cheap that are now valuable. 10 years ago you could get awesome one word .ios that are now valuable. Ditto for xyz 5 years ago. But you had to believe when other people didn't and back that up with your money.

Its always the same story, whether its real estate, new TLDs, Bitcoins, Ethereum, whatever. What can you get for cheap today that will be valuable in 10 years? What do you feel is valuable that other people haven't realized yet? All the obvious answers are taken, of course.

In my opinion, its ridiculous to proclaim that an industry like this is dead or has even significantly changed within a 1-2 year span, especially when your model changes constantly (as does mine). Domains are all about long term holds, not short flips, and I think they are obviously still getting more valuable.
 
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Five years from now, it still won't be too late.
 
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Thanks for the good topic!
It's never too late to start a new business.
I started from scratch four years ago.
I have never been a hole in pocket. The first time I sold the domain when I managed to purchase 100 domains during the year. And my sale paid off the renewal of these domains and brought me a small profit.
I have several hundred domains and all of them hand-made registration.
I have no account on DropCatch and similar resources.
This will sound strange, but in modern realities I have more chances to become successful than others. I explain why. Nowday domaining
turned into a sport on getting domain fish at auctions.
But I love creativity. I like to come up with new names and new meanings. Very often I throw domains that bother me. So artists get tired of their paintings. And then previously unknown domain, from the point of view of modern domainer, begins to have a price. It has age and history. They fight at auctions for it. But if there were no people like me, the number of domains sold would remain the same. Now, when large corporations with the help of artificial intelligence buy expired domains at auctions for big money, only people like me have a chance to continue this business.
So far for me, this is a hobby that makes a profit. But I'm going to devote more time to this business so as not to worry about pension. And I will have to register on other sites to buy 3-4 letters domains dot com. Because they no longer exist in nature in a free form.
Please do not be afraid to come up with new domains. If they do not exist yet, become their creator.
 
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Well, it seems the thread is finally paying off - as I expected.

Some more experienced folks here have shared some strategies as how to beat the odds. I've also shared mine but since it came with a significant budget, probably far less applicable.

This is nice to see, will bring ideas and hope to freshers (hope should never be underestimated although it doesn't come with any guarantees).

While the issue is definitely still out there, and the difficulty will only increase (which makes me think of Bitcoin mining somehow), there are still gaps in the market to be filled. Unfortunately all those require experience and a lot of trial and error to start with.

The point that I am still sticking to is this.

Like 4 years ago (plus or minus) there was still free cheese up to grabs. Not anymore. Any semi-decent .com domain for example would have been sold fast in the low to mid XXX range, something that would have been very useful to newbies like myself, I actually built on that to scale my initial sales. Today that isn't happening as it was. I have some far better domains that definitely stand a chance at >$2k but will not sell fast if discounted to clear. Those buyers aren't there anymore (most likely other domainers buying to keep).

Anyway. I'm happy about the posts. If there are more experiences to share, even if contradicting my reasoning (and especially those), please do share. Thanks!
 
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People keep posting nonsense threads - Wasting other people time and confuse newbies.
Please ignore me, I'd be very happy not to see nonsense comments further. Thank you.

I'm returning in kind now. Appreciated.

Edit: I'm also 100% tired of your constant, unneeded sarcasm, and dumb wife jokes, really.

You're an experienced domainer here, have things to say, how about posting some meaningful stuff instead...?

As for me, sorry but I'm out of that conversation so no worries further. You'd do yourself a good one just ignoring my posts from now on. Once again, much appreciated if you do so. If not... knock yourself out.
 
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In hindsight, after re-reading my original post.

This was simply an idea that stuck with me for a while. Now after re-reading I think it is worth just a bit of clarification.

I still believe that, BUT I must admit that it doesn't apply to the whole thing but rather to a sub-section: Acquiring sellable meaningful domains at drop and/or closeouts as well. Plus getting again reasonably priced domains at auctions.

For this subset of sourcing (otherwise a significant chunk of the market, if not the largest), yeah, I still see the problem, right there. Lately the competition has become sharper than I expected to see by now couple years ago. So there's basically no entry for beginners here (this still continues to be my assessment of the situation).

But obviously there are tons of other angles one can work on with perhaps more chances and an easier start:

- Outbounding (expect some hard sweat to be put in though)

- Brandables, submitting to SH, even crafting our handregs (although I have my doubts on the latter). Indeed there are still brandables dropping and at closeouts and I'd add that one can even be lucky with a handreg now and then.

- Proper research and direct sales. Such as spotting a name that would be a great upgrade for a specific business, acquiring that and selling. This is an evergreen one.

- Certain nTLDs hitting the market better. Even cheaper to purchase which makes them more accessible to beginners.

And so on (other things have been posted here).

I appreciate the comments above, both positive and negative (with good intent, positive criticism).

The subject is one to be discussed in my opinion, hence the fact that it has gathered plenty of comments already. To those that have disliked it, sorry about that, feel free to ignore my posts for mutual benefit. Thanks!

Edit: My posts tend to be controversial in nature sometimes, for example when I explore topics that I'm also torn on. I apologize for that if it pisses you off by chance. But on the other hand I know it wasn't for nothing and I am happy to see people helping out clarifying such things. It helps me as well so I appreciate your comments here a lot.
 
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It was ok back then as compared to now.
As more & more people are getting technically literates, they are looking at domain flipping business as a side-income stream. Many just hand-register or buy it from auction and sit on it hoping to get some inbound offers. Many even forget about it and let the domain expire (this happens rarely).

Anyways you will always find diamonds in coal mines ;) so only few people make it good in domaining. I know people who started just 2-3 years back, are making good decent sales and some who are in this from years - have completely quit this biz.
 
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It was ok back then as compared to now.
As more & more people are getting technically literates, they are looking at domain flipping business as a side-income stream. Many just hand-register or buy it from auction and sit on it hoping to get some inbound offers. Many even forget about it and let the domain expire (this happens rarely).

Anyways you will always find diamonds in coal mines ;) so only few people make it good in domaining. I know people who started just 2-3 years back, are making good decent sales and some who are in this from years - have completely quit this biz.
I agree with this.

It's always been a minority who made it.

Guess this is not different from other fields though. For example in stock trading, although perhaps a bit easier, still most will not make money overall. Many have even sold their stock at a loss when 2022-2023 hit them hard, but that's a different debate though, shall we not get into that. Just mentioning it though.

Some of the ways of doing it are currently closed, I think (see above comment from me).

But I think this will reopen in a few years. And if you have succeeded in holding good stuff till then, well, there will be a payout.
 
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There were some good points made by OP.

Domaining is hard work, and the current recession hasn't peaked yet. The FED continues to raise interest rates to bring down inflation and will do so through Q3 2023.

Many tenured domainers have spoken about the slowdown in sales in Q4 2022, and I saw no sales in Q4 2022.

Yet, I sold 2 domains over the last 60 days for average $1K, but both were outbound. Typically, I wouldn't sell in $1K range, but I'm repricing and outbounding my lower 1/4 of domains in that range for the rest of the year.

I have a small portfolio of less than 200 domains, with a plan to gradually scale up to 500 by 2025.

- Proper research and direct sales. Such as spotting a name that would be a great upgrade for a specific business, acquiring that and selling. This is an evergreen one. ~ Twiki

I'd say 1/3 of my portfolio is in this category and I'm strictly a dot-Com maximalist. In conversations with startups, they are very hesitant to make the upgrade in that five figure range and are cutting costs if anything.

2022-2023 will flush the heavily indebted and overleveraged out of the marketplace in the general economy and in domaining.

Its the inevitable nature of the business cycle, so hold on to your best assets and drop the dead weight.
 
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I think it's too late for someone to start domaining these days.

( Yeah, I know a few might eventually succeed - but that'll be quite rare, I think. )

I mean, what are the odds now for someone who has no skills but just the will to try it?

I started domaining just a few years ago. But then, it was still the real bonanza. Whatever you had, it sold. Price high, price low, nevertheless it sold. That's how I made it into profit in my third year, gradually improving.

Auctions were cheap, domains were cheaper, drops were full of juice. Closeouts, good stuff still falling through the net for us to grab.

Not anymore. 2022 came and passed.

Everything is overpriced now, people probably holding stuff waiting for better times OR for future plans, who knows. And yeah it's clear that you can't make a living when buying domains retail price from the market. You might recoup the monies in a few years, who knows, but it's too risky. And you'll have the money locked in it. And unless you have the $ to buy few high-value names, you are going to also burn money in renewals.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining. This isn't about me. I'm alright, and at least in portfolio quality I'm definitely seeing betterment. And yeah, it's also not about the top investors who are still rolling cash although the numbers have diminished a little lately.

It's about someone new, willing to take the plunge and start today. I really don't see it to happen. The sales squeeze means that growing portfolio in the first place from $500 and some beginners luck ain't going to work anymore.

You need a serious budget to start with. And some itch to see it all spent soon...? And you need to make that budget triple at least; as for the next few years you're going to burn through it like there's no tomorrow. And after those years, maybe then, you're going to finally see the end of the tunnel that is the current market and if you have improved enough, then maybe, just maybe you'll see some return on all this hard work, money spent and risk taken.

I look at these guys and dunno if I should encourage them or tell them what they are getting into, and what are the odds.

Your thoughts?
My biggest regret is buying too many domains,if I had to do it all over id buy 10 10k domains[wholesale ] list them for 200 each ,and renew them for 6.99 for 20 years each and forget them till you hit the lottery every few months, weather you domain is worth 5 bucks or 50 million ,its still a 10 buck renewal these days
 
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Twiki and Twilight... Doom and Gloom :)
 
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