sales The right lander + pricing option: BIN, Make Offer, Lead form or Installments? Afternic, Dan, or Sedo lander?

[twiki]

Being asked a lot about these by other domainers, and right now it itches me to respond.

Gonna outline this fairly simple for you below:

- If you use BIN only, people who straight buy it now will buy. But you will reject those who think it's too pricey and would want to make an offer instead.

- If you use make offer only, you will lose money on the missing BINs.

- If you want to use BIN + Make offer at Afternic, no can have. They don't have that.

- If you use BIN + Make offer elsewhere instead, yeah you will get both. But you are going to lose income on the BIN anyway, because 1) those impulse buys customers will no longer see only the BIN, so the impulse is broken and 2) you give them time to think "What should be the offer I make? Should I actually make an offer at all? How does this work? Will they accept or reject my offer?" And all that extra thinking breaks the impulse of course.

- The more time you give them to think, and more steps are in, the less are the chances a BIN sale will go through.

- The more options you give them, the more thinking they'll make = chances are they will give up on any buy impulse). However, the option you make available will turn away the buyers who would like to have another option, such as make offer vs. BIN.

- If you use installments, yeah you will (probably) make more sales but chances are a good part of them will give up down the line (some will do). This could also create some troubles if the buyer has registered a trademark meantime on your domain (happens).

( I don't like installments but that's just me, not everyone else. )

- If you use Afternic, then you're going to need to pay a 20% fee. Oh, and forgot to say, the network might sometimes add an extra markup, which means from the actual sale to the final client you get less than 80%. But that's how the network gets paid as well.

( Call me crazy but I personally prefer Afternic. This ain't YOUR choice though, it's mine and might change in the future).

- If you use Afternic BIN lander, users can't make an offer unless they call in, which some might - but many still won't, they'll just think "too expensive" and walk away.

- If you use Afternic NS3/NS4, you'll get leads in, but no BIN sales via the lander. You will definitely lose some BIN sales. But perhaps you get better negotiated sales via the lead. Which is better from the two options? Good question.

- However, https lander requests don't work with Afternic and Sedo; only Dan has that visitors that have been previously visiting the site via https will get an "insecure site" error that they have to accept through to reach the http lander.

- If you use Dan lander (has https!), you'll get a nice 9% fee BUT 1) you can't sell below $100, and 2) there is no phone number and no brokers to assist the customer = less conversions.

You can however make Dan your only option, and you might definitely get some sales there because there is no other place to buy your domain. But how many sales are you losing from other networks in this way? Also, no phone number, no GoDaddy branding = smaller conversions.

Also I can see some buyers asking themselves "Who the hell is Dan, actually?" Hmm, but maybe I have too wild imagination.

Oh, and the https disadvantage with other venues than Dan, well, that will likely impact a minority of buyers - but you don't really know how many exactly.

- If you use Sedo lander, there are too many links to other places on the site = distracting, taking visitors to other domains etc. You get however a smaller fee (15%) - good part. Oh, and there is no phone number to call. That means lower conversion rates. Of course, there is also no GD branding as well = less trust, read it as less money in.

Forgot to mention the payment time with Afternic; takes much longer to get paid than Dan for example.

- If your buyer is from US, they'll prefer GoDaddy. However if they are from Europe, some of them might prefer Sedo. But you can't know for sure. If the buyer is from another country, what they'd prefer, beats me.

- Same A/B thing applies to listing in USD or EUR. Some buyers will prefer one over another.

- If you use a custom / unknown lander, good luck with that. You're unknown to the buyers - as a brand. Chances are, there is zero trust in you and your lander.

- If you don't use a lander at all, no listing on any network, then you can simply wait for good offers to come via Whois. Some great offer might show up in 2024, or another year.

Question is, how many will come, how good and how often? Also, is the Whois messaging really going to function at all?

I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention 50 things. But I mentioned these, should be good enough.

Now that you're all informed, it should be fairly easy to make your choice...

Good luck then.

 

[twiki]

I always learn something from Twiki's posts. In this one I learned https doesn't resolve at Afternic!! Lol

I haven't typed the prefix into my browser in years and I check all my names once I set my nameservers by just typing in the domain name...

I'm dumbfounded...who doesn't use Secure SSL these days? Oh yeah, Afternic....

Please keep posting and sharing, Twiki

There's a reason for this so at least I understand why they didn't invest in this. SSL is particularly expensive to run on hardware, and complex to maintain. You need a certificate for each domain listed. It probably doubles the running costs, plus investment.

The only platform that has https as far as I know is Dan.

I can see however why they decided not to - business decision.

This problem affects a minority of the visitors - Those that have previously visited the domain while it was active on https and are still using the same computer/browser. Since most domains listed have been there like forever, chances for this happening are indeed small.

And that user only gets the error on a particular domain; not on everything else listed at Afternic. There's also the option to ignore the error and continue to the domain which BTW I've seen users doing via our custom landers.

But otherwise yes, it is nagging.

I must mention though that this would (likely) affect low priced domains, mostly. For high value names, the buyers will go through bricks and walls to reach out to you and make an offer.

 

[Future Sensors]

There's a reason for this so at least I understand why they didn't invest in this. SSL is particularly expensive to run on hardware, and complex to maintain. You need a certificate for each domain listed. It probably doubles the running costs, plus investment.

While this was certainly the case ten years ago, modern TLS implementations today only add little additional overhead, say a few percent. That DAN has been able to implement TLS for all its domain landers with only a small development team is particularly commendable. It is now almost 2023 and there is no longer any reason for domain marketplaces not to implement TLS or not to implement it completely. As for GoDaddy, this company has all the knowledge and resources for this. In their own words: "GoDaddy is a founding member of the Certificate Authority (CA)/Browser Forum, whose purpose is to drive meaningful change that leads to a safer and more authenticated internet experience for all. We deliver our certified services through a robust PKI infrastructure with global data centers, disaster recovery, redundancy and high availability. We're also winners of Online Trust Honor Roll and WebTrust awards."

 

[twiki]

While this was certainly the case ten years ago, modern TLS implementations today only add little additional overhead, say a few percent. That DAN has been able to implement TLS for all its domain landers with only a small development team is particularly commendable. It is now almost 2023 and there is no longer any reason for domain marketplaces not to implement TLS or not to implement it completely. As for GoDaddy, this company has all the knowledge and resources for this. In their own words: "GoDaddy is a founding member of the Certificate Authority (CA)/Browser Forum, whose purpose is to drive meaningful change that leads to a safer and more authenticated internet experience for all. We deliver our certified services through a robust PKI infrastructure with global data centers, disaster recovery, redundancy and high availability. We're also winners of Online Trust Honor Roll and WebTrust awards."

Going to explain then in detail, because you might be looking at a different thing.

I'm talking about certificate management side of it, (edit: and running the virtualhost ) mostly. Not the running of SSL itself / TLS /data transfer.

Right now, you can use a catchall-wildcard host to get all the traffic. That's what my landers have.

However when you have to use SSL per domain, it's an entirely different story. Each domain requires their own virtualhost and also their own certificate. These consume RAM and also increase thread concurrency a lot. I've seen this in practice as it would have turned my landers expensive and in the end decided not to implement SSL as in per-domain virtualhost+certificate.

It is true that GD could do this if they wanted to. They definitely have the hardware. But it will require a major upgrade project on the Afternic side of things and all I've seen over time there is baby steps. So I don't see this happening soon. It would also probably not create a significant business positive impact for them; so why bother. The latter is the key to understanding their inaction. Sedo also has the same.

Edit: One catchall virtual host can run maybe 1 million domains on a good server; but having 1 million virtualhosts (= mini websites) is NOT the same thing.

But obviously you are right at least in part; they all should have this by now. They just choose not to, it seems.

 

[Future Sensors]

I'm talking about certificate management side of it, mostly. Not the running of SSL itself / TLS /data transfer.

Why are you mentioning "hardware" then?

 

[twiki]

Why are you mentioning "hardware" then?

Just replied, see above.

 

[twiki]

As a side note, (my estimate) 90% of Afternic and Sedo income comes from syndication anyway; so this SSL thing would be too complex to implement with little positive financial result for them if any.

It just bothers us domainers.

 

[Future Sensors]

As a side note, (my estimate) 90% of Afternic and Sedo income comes from syndication anyway; so this SSL thing would be too complex to implement with little positive financial result for them if any.

It just bothers us domainers.

If you think this way, innovation will not come to fruition. You can clearly see at this point how much DAN was thinking in terms of possibilities and progress, and GoDaddy is making almost no significant progress with Afternic.

 

[twiki]

If you think this way, innovation will not come to fruition. You can clearly see at this point how much DAN was thinking in terms of possibilities and progress, and GoDaddy is making almost no significant progress with Afternic.

Agreed - but isn't this what we see already? Big platforms stuck in time.

I'm not saying this is what should be done, but rather what is being done and some of the reasons they might think that way.

 

[gericsb]

There's a reason for this so at least I understand why they didn't invest in this. SSL is particularly expensive to run on hardware, and complex to maintain. You need a certificate for each domain listed. It probably doubles the running costs, plus investment.

The only platform that has https as far as I know is Dan.

I can see however why they decided not to - business decision.

This problem affects a minority of the visitors - Those that have previously visited the domain while it was active on https and are still using the same computer/browser. Since most domains listed have been there like forever, chances for this happening are indeed small.

And that user only gets the error on a particular domain; not on everything else listed at Afternic. There's also the option to ignore the error and continue to the domain which BTW I've seen users doing via our custom landers.

But otherwise yes, it is nagging.

I must mention though that this would (likely) affect low priced domains, mostly. For high value names, the buyers will go through bricks and walls to reach out to you and make an offer.

Yes, that makes sense! I only have one developed domain/website (more a labor of love) that I work on sporadically. I had to convert it a couple years ago to SSL in order to maintain Google rankings and visitor trust.

I never even thought of the cost per certificate for each domain when there are millions....

 

[twiki]

Yes, that makes sense! I only have one developed domain/website (more a labor of love) that I work on sporadically. I had to convert it a couple years ago to SSL in order to maintain Google rankings and visitor trust.

I never even thought of the cost per certificate for each domain when there are millions....

Certificates are free if you use LetsEncrypt.

The processing overhead however increases due to millions of virtualhosts (sites) and also complexity of platform management. Kinda doubles the whole lander thing.

 

[davidc1]

My market is around 33% US , 33% from EU, 33% else where.
Do you think it could be better to change my landers from euros to usd ?

 

[twiki]

My market is around 33% US , 33% from EU, 33% else where.
Do you think it could be better to change my landers from euros to usd ?

If you have already read the original post... I guess you know the answer by now.

( Just in case you don't know: You need to make a decision there. )

Edit: My choice, this applies to my portfolio, personal choice and not everyone else's: I use EUR at Sedo, and USD anywhere else.

 

[1Darko]

My market is around 33% US , 33% from EU, 33% else where.
Do you think it could be better to change my landers from euros to usd ?

Try to predict who will most likely buy the domain. If there is a high probability that the buyer will be from europe, switch the price to Euro.

 

[twiki]

Try to predict who will most likely buy the domain. If there is a high probability that the buyer will be from europe, switch the price to Euro.

Good point.

My custom landers have GEO country detection and can redirect them based on that to a price in either EUR or USD. Except that for the moment I use Afternic NS3/4 anyway.

 

[davidc1]

Try to predict who will most likely buy the domain. If there is a high probability that the buyer will be from europe, switch the price to Euro.

I use dan landers and they stopped doing that years ago without any reason.
I hosted my landers for geo pricing them, but i stopped, results were not significants.

 

[twiki]

I use dan landers and they stopped doing that years ago without any reason.
I hosted my landers for geo pricing them, but i stopped, results were not significants.

Saving power I guess (no more geo lookups)

 

[davidc1]

Saving power I guess (no more geo lookups)

No that worked well, even for 20k+ domains but the way i used geo detection was not good.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Superb summary of the pros and cons of different landers and marketplaces, @twiki Thank you so much!

I think the key takeaway is if you have any diversity at all in the type of domain names you have, then almost certainly no one lander/marketplace is optimum for all of your domain names.

It is also true that different potential clients have different preferences. I absolutely hate when I am looking for a product or service having to deal with a salesperson or especially not being able to find the price up front. So personally, as a consumer, I favour a clear BIN lander. But I realize other potential clients like the 'game' of negotiation and offers, and having a telephone number to talk it over. So important to not let our personal preferences have too strong a role on what is best approach.

Thanks so much,

Bob

 

[Dane]

Interesting thread.