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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.
  • Both Parties

    268 
    votes
    44.7%
  • Neither Party

    57 
    votes
    9.5%
  • Democrats

    133 
    votes
    22.2%
  • Republicans

    141 
    votes
    23.5%
  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

Impact
8,557
Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun :)

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
I agree the stupidity of 21 to drink versus buying a gun. But the derranged kid was unloved. Thats the bottom line. He was adopted and had a mother who died, not excuses but the cards some people are dealt they can’t accept and they watch what others do to lash out and blame society. Then the news all over for years and all the news and entertainment media perpetuates this violence. The “Thug life” in videos in parts of society glamorizes this too. Like NWA that you somehow dismiss, but its all a system that is rotten to the core. The shrinkage of the middle class futher is going to make it worse.

I hate hearing and reading these things just like you.

There should be some sort of testing for owning a gun, or a chainsaw or a truck or really a mental capacity test to even give birth. Less unloved children would help society.

Oh, not the blaming of music again. NWA is one of my favorite rap groups, I don't go and do drive bys or slap bitches up. In the past it was Ozzy and his Suicide Solution song. Or blame video games when other countries like Japan have much more violent games, yet school shootings?

The only difference is our gun culture/availability. And again, nobody is talking about a ban, just doing some common sense stuff. And the NRA isn't the only gun association, just the one with the most money. Other gun groups support common sense measures.

The thing with the ages, is just ridiculous. Can't buy a handgun but can get an AR-15? Even Scott said on air, he'll look into it, we'll see.

I always thought some of what we do is backwards. I had a German teacher in Germany tell me a story of when she went on a cruise and American kids threw a piano overboard. In Germany you can drink before you can drive. In America you can drive before you can drink.

She explained it as:
In Germany, you learn how to handle you alcohol before you learn how to drive.

In America, you learn how to drive before you learn how to handle you alcohol.

Germany seems to make more sense to me.

Can join the Army, get a gun, kill people. Can't drink.

Ok. You dig up the exact bill number and lets dissect it. Ok? I will surmiss before you do, like so much political bills it was part of a pork barrel with building some bridge or unrelated deal, not as simple as that sound bite reporters write. Give me the facts. I will read the thing.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...f-the-nics-improvement-amendments-act-of-2007

Machetes are common instruments in poorer countries. Want some stats? Poorer countries are family oriented, they are not bombarded with Big screen TV commercials or iPhones or BMW commercials every 3 minutes. Plenty of violence on TV though. Most originates from Hollywood Trash producers.

BMW commercials? Stop blaming media. Most watch it just fine. Mental illness plus easy access to guns. Music, video games, mental illness, all over the place. America drowning in guns.

We could have squeaky clean media, this still would have happened. If the gun laws were you couldn't buy an AR-15 until you were 21, it wouldn't have.

I'm an end results type person. Is what we're doing working now? Obviously not.
 
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“Some commenters cautioned about the potential for stigmatization of those with mental health disorders, and questioned why we did not provide evidence demonstrating the correlation between mental health and gun-related Start Printed Page 91703violence. Commenters also expressed apprehension about the potential violation of privacy rights, including rights under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). Commenters also questioned our existing processes for determining the presence of a disability based on a mental impairment and our process for appointing representative payees. Multiple commenters asked about our process for seeking relief and the removal of names from the NICS. Several commenters expressed that the policy we proposed was an unnecessary expenditure of Federal Government funds.”

Ok, first of all thank you for taking the time to find it and post it.

It’s really tough to read, like reading a dictionary cover to cover. I skimmed over it first and see the crux of the above as a concern. I am going to try and work through it. But I understand the issue is more complex as they are Tying in receiving SSI benefits to Gun ownership. How do you draw the line between semi lunatic and fully lunatic?

Ok, so privacy and civil rights are effected too. And if you are in some database labeled by the Govt, as a risky person, you can lose insurance or employment rights unrelated to gun ownership. This law as written is complex. The issue is highly complex. That’s why. Basically, you are labeled as a “problem” person in a database, and it prevents more than gun ownership.

I will plow through this. Did you read it?
 
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Here- a huge glaring problem:

“The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified through regulations that this prohibition covers individuals who have been determined by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition or disease to be a danger to himself or to others, or who lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.”

Therefore, had this law been in place 30 years ago, nothing would be any different with Sandy Hook, Columbine, San Ysidro, Vegas, etc. nor would have excluded this kid. None of those people to my knowledge were subnormal intelligence or couldn't take care of themselves.

He managed to get to eat at subway after shooting up the place. That sick asshole. This sort of law covers people who are mentally retarded, not marginal. The guy in Vegas managed his own affairs. In fact, he was so smart that he covered his tracks so well that nobody can figure it out, that and the Mandalay bay wants it to go away since it's bad for business. They are a good paying advertiser for MSM too I am sure.
 
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I will plow through this. Did you read it?

Kind of like you, I skimmed it before and read some pro/con articles on it.

"subnormal intelligence or couldn't take care of themselves."

"those who would have been reported by the agency had to meet two main criteria: a) They were receiving full disability benefits because of a mental illness and couldn't work and b) they were unable to manage their own benefits, thus needing the help of a third party to do so."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/trump-gun-legislation-mental-health/index.html

But should these people be allowed to own guns?
 
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Mental health laws have been a huge challenge over the years. It used to be that people were committed against their own will, and some even given shock treatment and lobotomies. Remember "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest"? Disgusting. Law that I am familiar with requires people to sign themselves in. They can and do refuse treatment. They can also sign themselves out. It's a huge problem- not even including the gun ownership thing.

@GILSAN: it's all your fault those portugese doctors!!!!!! lol. regarding Lobotomies: "It was first performed in 1935 in Portugal by Dr. Egas Moniz, who later would win the Nobel Prize in physiology and medicine for the technique."

Here is a victim of that.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/11/30/pdg.lobotomy/index.html
 
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But should these people be allowed to own guns?

Nope. Can't disagree at all. If they are unable to work, how could they afford one anyway? and probably they get food stamps since they are disabled, I don't think they should be able to trade in food stamps to a crooked gun dealer. But it could happen in the ghetto with a stolen firearm traded for food stamps.

This issue is very complex, and difficult to legislate I can see that. But it's like any tool or object, if it's used by the wrong person it's deadly. An icepick can kill you, but we don't outlaw them. A razor blade you can slash up and really cause lot's of damage. A chair can be throw at someone to kill them. A nail gun or hammer, or a glass bottle of beer. Outlaw glass bottles for mentally ill people? Probably so.
 
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Nope. Can't disagree at all. If they are unable to work, how could they afford one anyway? and probably they get food stamps since they are disabled, I don't think they should be able to trade in food stamps to a crooked gun dealer. But it could happen in the ghetto with a stolen firearm traded for food stamps.

This issue is very complex, and difficult to legislate I can see that. But it's like any tool or object, if it's used by the wrong person it's deadly. An icepick can kill you, but we don't outlaw them. A razor blade you can slash up and really cause lot's of damage. A chair can be throw at someone to kill them. A nail gun or hammer, or a glass bottle of beer. Outlaw glass bottles for mentally ill people? Probably so.

So Trump thinks it's ok that they can own them. I say no myself, think Obama was right on this one.

I'm not sure the last time we had a mass killing from thrown chairs and such.
 
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The only difference is our gun culture/availability.

No, the difference is the entire "Thug" culture is fucked up. You have a brain, you know what is right and wrong, but some young impressionable kid without a father is listening to that crap and he an "at risk kid" growing up and seeing drug dealers flashing their gold chains and watches around on the corner listening to that music, flashing their pistols around and with $200 jordans on, and his mother lives in a dump and he want's to better himself- so his role model is a thug. The mother who either hates all her kids or cannot give them love and attention because she has 6 kids to feed and no father- that kid grows up thinking about the easy money selling drugs instead of working at Burger King and he worships that Pimp Daddy drug dealer kid on the corner and want's be be like him.

Btw: Andre Agassi's School he started, privately funded by him to help at risk kids, mostly african american in Las Vegas:
"all students recite a “Code of Respect” every day. Teachers, parents and students each sign a commitment of accountability, pledging their assurances to their roles in the learning process. Every educator, administrator and staff member is committed to helping students reach their full potential."

http://media.agassifoundation.org/assets/Uploads/Agassi-Prep-FAQ-FINAL-11-11-2010.pdf
 
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No, the difference is the entire "Thug" culture is f*cked up. You have a brain, you know what is right and wrong, but some young impressionable kid without a father is listening to that crap and he an "at risk kid" growing up and seeing drug dealers flashing their gold chains and watches around on the corner listening to that music, flashing their pistols around and with $200 jordans on, and his mother lives in a dump and he want's to better himself- so his role model is a thug. The mother who either hates all her kids or cannot give them love and attention because she has 6 kids to feed and no father- that kid grows up thinking about the easy money selling drugs instead of working at Burger King and he worships that Pimp Daddy drug dealer kid on the corner and want's be be like him.

Btw: Andre Agassi's School he started, privately funded by him to help at risk kids, mostly african american in Las Vegas:
"all students recite a “Code of Respect” every day. Teachers, parents and students each sign a commitment of accountability, pledging their assurances to their roles in the learning process. Every educator, administrator and staff member is committed to helping students reach their full potential."

http://media.agassifoundation.org/assets/Uploads/Agassi-Prep-FAQ-FINAL-11-11-2010.pdf

Talking about mass shootings - https://www.google.com/search?q=mas...AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=700#imgrc=cr-qsfJwtridxM:

Most have been white - https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

I understand what you're talking about but that leans more environment, than mental illness.
 
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Let's look at history. Nothing has really been done since San Ysidro- the first mental health gun related mass shooting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald's_massacre

So... if you look at this logically with all that have followed- it's been whose fault? Reagan, Bush Sr and Jr, Clinton and Obama- had 34 years to do something, now it's all Trumps fault???? And all the career swamp dwellers in congress like Pelosi, Schumer, McCain, etc.

Further- I see, citizens of the USA that are felons cannot buy guns, but people on the terror watch list can. Isn't that cute.

All are to blame for not making that laws and enforcing them. Also, I see this is a pass the issue back to the states thing. But we have the Patriot act! The international spy network that keeps us "safe". lol.

Even this gun control advocate organization states the law does not work.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-l...n-have-a-gun/categories-of-prohibited-people/

Individuals on the Terror Watch List

Federal law does not prohibit suspected terrorists from purchasing or possessing firearms. Individuals on the terror watch list tried to buy guns and explosives 2,477 times between 2004 and 2015. Of those, 2,265 were allowed to make the purchase — more than 91% — because the person did not fall into a prohibited category. The FBI was only able to block 212 of these sales from going through.18 Suspected terrorists have used firearms in a number of high-profile shootings, such as the massacre in November 2009 at Fort Hood, Texas (13 killed and 30 injured).19

"Even though federal law prohibits the sale of firearms to certain individuals with a history of mental illness, history has shown that it’s still too easy for dangerous people experiencing a mental health crisis to obtain firearms. Currently, laws are in place that require licensed dealers (but not unlicensed sellers) to conduct a background check prior to the transfer of a firearm to screen out these and other prohibited purchasers."

However, federal law cannot require states to make information identifying these people available to the federal or state agencies that perform background checks,2 and many states fail to voluntarily report the necessary records to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), especially with respect to people prohibited from possessing guns for mental health reasons. As a result, some individuals known to be dangerous can pass background checks and obtain firearms."
 
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C'mon you know better. Obama tried, we just talked about Trump reversing 1 thing, and you disagreed with Trump on that. I posted earlier:

"And just this week, Trump's 2019 budget proposal to Congress proposed a 16% cut in federal grants to help states boost their reporting of criminal records and protection orders to the national database used for background checks on gun purchasers."

Other things Obama tried were blocked. Can't do anything with the NRA running things/The Republicans.

"There is little more that Obama could have done on gun control," UCLA constitutional law professor Adam Winkler said. "The president's power is limited, and the NRA wrote the laws to restrict what the executive can do."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ss-blocked-obama-call-gun-control-mass-shoot/
 
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And I went to use google, and they skew my search. I asked for statistics- and instead they put up an anti trump website at number 1. Google is a great example of the left leaning silicon valley.

You read this about Peter Thiel today?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/15/technology/peter-thiel-leaving-silicon-valley/index.html

I gave up trying to find statistics as google results are really skewed, all of them I can't find stats since it's filled with top resulting anti trump propaganda.


blackonblack.jpg
 
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And I went to use google, and they skew my search. I asked for statistics- and instead they put up an anti trump website at number 1. Google is a great example of the left leaning silicon valley.

You read this about Peter Thiel today?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/15/technology/peter-thiel-leaving-silicon-valley/index.html


Show attachment 80635

Politifact is an Anti-Trump website?

He tweeted some bs - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mp/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

"None of the numbers are supported by official sources. The figures on black-on-white homicides and white-on-white homicides are wildly inaccurate. And, as several news organizations quickly noted, the "Crime Statistics Bureau" doesn’t exist. We looked for that agency as well and the closest we found in San Francisco were a number of crime scene clean-up services."

Fact sites get everybody, just see Hillary, some Pants On Fire lies from her - http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/pants-fire/

If you tend to lie a lot, as Trump does, you'll have more of that.
 
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...pays-off-clout-and-wins-washington/341257002/
"And just this week, Trump's 2019 budget proposal to Congress proposed a 16% cut in federal grants to help states boost their reporting of criminal records and protection orders to the national database used for background checks on gun purchasers."

So this is where you got the quote- an NRA article. I get it. It's too much. It's a huge swamp, and the NRA is part of it. I have no argument with that either, but the figures I am not sure where they get the data and the NRA does not have the amount of bribery most all other bribery/lobbying organizations.

Here is the breakdown for NRA I found, I guess advertising is not included.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000082&year=2017

But the NRA doesn't make the huge list
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

Nothing changes. If these numbers were adjusted for inflation I would bet it would be flat.
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...pays-off-clout-and-wins-washington/341257002/

"Trump was one of the biggest beneficiaries of the NRA's spending in the last election, with the group pumping more than $31 million into advertising to boost his candidacy and to attack his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton."

Where is the data to support that $31 million in advertising? It appears to be misleading as the money went to other seats as well, but upon a closer look it is correct. $20 millon additional went to other candidates.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/20...the-2016-election-and-won-almost-all-of-them/

"The gun rights group placed multimillion-dollar bets on Donald Trump and six Republican Senate candidates locked in highly competitive races. It poured $50.2 million, or 96 percent of its total outside spending, into these races, and lost only one — an open seat in Nevada, vacated by the Democratic Minority Leader, Harry Reid. That race cost the NRA roughly $2.5 million."

If you look at the big picture of simply advertising 2.3 billion on the 2016 elections- it's huge boon for the media companies who lobby the most.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/20...3-million-ads-have-run-in-the-2016-elections/

Now I see another reason why CNN loves Hillary:

Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton still tops the list, having spent over $219 million on television ads.

So the NRA give President Trump 30 million, what was his total ad spend? Well he spent $60 million of his own money on the campaign so that leaves $280 million. $300 million less than Hillary. No wonder she wrote the book "what happened?"- to appease her donors that she took their $581 million and lost.

http://fortune.com/2016/12/09/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-campaign-spending/

"Over the course of the primary and general elections, the Trump campaign raised about $340 million. That included $66 million that the billionaire businessman contributed from his own pocket. The Clinton campaign, which maintained a longer and more concerted fundraising focus, brought in about $581 million."

Bottom line is the NRA does not "Own" Trump.
 
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C'mon you know better. Obama tried, we just talked about Trump reversing 1 thing, and you disagreed with Trump on that. I posted earlier:

No actually, I never paid any attention to Obama at all. I never watched any of his speeches nor cared, I was out of the states on a permanent vacation and traveling all over and living my great life. It's only recently the Trump campaign that interested me, purely selfishly looking for economic improvement to re-start working after being bored and retired. I am now waiting to see the US economy pick up. No idea when, but maybe it will.
 
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Not only fire drills, school shooting drills in America nowadays.
The new normal in America... What's wrong with people ?
 
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Kate has it right. What's wrong with people? Guns are not the problem. An evil person will find a way, a home made bomb, truck, car, worse?

Secularization of everything, mocking religion and moral behavior, identity politics, grievance culture opening the door for marxist organizations, nationalist to further divide people.

You can make an intelligent argument for requiring registration of semi-automatic rifles like hand guns but that would not have stopped an insane / evil person.

Just my opinion.
 
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http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/

Big Pharma won’t acknowledge the trends:
http://www.cchrflorida.org/antidepressants-are-a-prescription-for-mass-shootings/
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed twelve students and a teacher at Columbine High School. Eric was on Luvox, an antidepressant. The Virginia Tech shooter killed thirty-two people and he was on an antidepressant. While withdrawing from Prozac, Kip Kinkel murdered his mother and stepmother. He then shot twenty-two classmates and killed two. Jason Hoffman wounded five at his high school while he was on Effexor, also an antidepressant. James Holmes opened fire in a Colorado movie theater this past summer and killed twelve people and wounded fifty-eight. He was under the care of a psychiatrist but no information has been released as to what drug he must have been on.

https://psychiatricfraud.org/2011/04/the-real-lesson-of-columbine-psychiatric-drugs-induce-violence/
 
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This is such old news video from 2011, Fake News didn’t have a name back then.
Charlton Heston above was taped in 2000.


 
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