The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[jberryhill]

The additional images didn't post:

 

[E-Promote]

From up and to the rear. He was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository...

The spasmodic jerking of his body in response to a massive brain trauma is not an indicator of the direction of the bullet.

I see, so instead of explaining the absence of forward movement of JFK's body immediately following the fatal head shot itself (which you believe originated from the rear) you have chosen instead to explain away the visual proof that JFK's body lurches backwards and to the left immediately following the fatal head shot.

 

[jberryhill]

You are wrong on the evidence two ways. Obviously, you are not familiar with the Zapruder film. Between frames 312 and 313, his head moves forward with the impact, and then he convulses. Observe:

You don't get to rely on your ignorance of what the film shows, and ignore the forensic evidence of the skull fragments and x-rays.

There is a JFK assasination simulator program which you should check out sometime. I'll search for it later and post the link. There is no clear trajectory for a forward shot given the geometry of the car and its windshield.

However, you obviously have never closely looked at his head movement between those two frames. Instead, the repeated mantra from a popular movie - "back and to the left" - is accepted as fact by persons who do not look at the plain evidence for themselves.

 

[jberryhill]

Likewise, you seem to believe, in reference to no physical theory or experiment, that the forward motion of the initial bone impact would keep the head moving forward. Again, while the entire nervous system causing convulsions from the brain disruption would swamp the effect anyway, if you shoot a bullet through a melon, as in the video below (which has also been done with coconuts and other skull simulacra) your basic assumption is wrong anyway:

Notice that as the bullet enters, the melon doesn't move, but instead rolls toward the direction of the shot somewhat after it leaves, due to the forward momentum of the pressurized ejecta. Again, physiological effects will swamp the rearward momentum of a remaining attached human head due to forward loss off the relatively small amount of brain and bone tissues. So what you would expect, given that a skull is harder than a melon, is a small forward motion on impact, followed by a rearward pitch. But again, the skull fragmentation was non-uniform, as indicated by the X-rays and reconstruction with the recovered fragments.

The game, incidentally, is JFK Reloaded. It is based on a geometrically accurate model of Dealey Plaza and the motorcade speed and position. You can choose your shooting location and other variables and test your own scenarios in it.

One thing that becomes obvious is that the sightline down the street from the sixth floor is a straight line. In other words, any position on the grassy knoll or behind the fence, etc. presents a laterally moving target. From the corner of the book depository, JFK is a "moving target" also, but moving in a straight line away from the corner. There is very little lateral movement of the target, so you only have to aim on the vertical axis, and not so much on the horizontal.

And, sure, after not joining my coworkers to see a presidential motorcade, my favorite thing to do is shoot a cop and go to a movie theater. Yup.

 

[jberryhill]

And here's your other problem with a "behind the fence" shot or a "grassy knoll" shot, coming downwards from the right of the vehicle.

After the shot through the neck and into Connally, Jackie moves in close to the left side of JFK, with her shoulder and arm behind him:

http://oi889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/77forever/Gifs/zfakery_h_GIFSoupcom.gif

The problem is that any trajectory with a clear shot from the knoll or the fence, at the point where the head shot was made, comes down along a line like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jbZHnORsz78/hqdefault.jpg

So, where did the fence/knoll bullet exit, E-promote? And, remember, the skull damage from the x-rays is all on the right side of the skull. There is no left side exit. Additionally, it could not have been a soft point round, since there would have been far more tissue and bone disruption, and would have left fragments all over the place.

Obviously, the "exiting bullet from the fence/knoll shot" didn't hit Jackie, and just as obviously, there is no spray of ejected matter going "back and to the left" along the proposed trajectory. So, how do you manage to shoot JFK from the right, and end up with no bullet exiting on the left and hitting Jackie or the vehicle, and no matter being ejected in that direction?

The belief that the head shot came from some other location than the obvious one based on the skull damage and the way that matter is ejected from the target, tends to be based on incorrect armchair assumptions which ignore physics, and also ignores the totality of other evidence. That's why alternative theory "experts" like James Fetzer and others also propose a fairly wide-ranging effort by the proposed conspirators to have altered all of the physical evidence - including the Zapruder film - to make it appear that Oswald was the shooter. But once you go down the road of "all of the evidence has been altered to frustrate my conclusion", you can believe anything, I suppose.

 

[E-Promote]

Please, everyone watch the entire sequence, I''ll be back to comment when I get a minute:

 

[johname]

All you need to know is little hole entry, big hole exit.

But if you are waiting for the Babushka film to be discovered that's ok too.

 

[jberryhill]

Please, everyone watch the entire sequence

Yep. In particular watch the sequence from around 224, when they come out from behind the sign, to around 234. Play that a few times and notice how they both flinch at exactly the same time. That is the shot which went through JFK's lower neck, into Connally's back and out into his wrist. There's only one way to shoot Connally in the back, and that's through JFK, since Connally is sitting inboard and at a lower elevation on the jumpseat from where JFK is seated in the back seat.

And, yes, between 312 and 313 - the final head shot, you can see how his head moves forward (about as far as it can go, since his chin is already close to his chest), and various tissue is blown up and forward, before he jerks backward. Also, it helps if you understand that the frame rate is around 18 frames/sec, so the delay between the impact of the shot and him jerking backward makes it clear that the backward motion is not from some kind of impulse imparted by being hit from the front. The instantaneous motion of his head is forward, consistent with a rear impact to the skull.

 

[jberryhill]

But if you are waiting for the Babushka film to be discovered that's ok too.

Lol, there's also the Nix film, incidentally, which doesn't seem to get as much attention.

The angle from which the Nix film is taken gives you a good idea of how much of a downward trajectory a shot from behind the fence or atop the knoll would require:

But the "back and to the lefters" don't seem to account for the fact that such a shot would be pretty much downwards, yet they claim an upward thrusting head motion quite a while after the head impact somehow demonstrates a shot from the knoll, fence, or various other locations they do not identify with any particularity.

 

[jberryhill]

The famed "Babushka Lady" is in the Muchmore photograph:

The MM in that picture is Mary Moorman, who took this photograph in which you can see Abraham Zapruder and his secretary to the right standing up on the concrete:

These various photographic angles from Zapruder, Moorman, Muchmore and Nix are what allows accurate 3-D modeling of the location of the vehicle and its occupants relative to the geometry of Dealey Plaza.

So, have a good look at the Moorman photograph, and once E-promote comes back to explain "back and to the left"... ask yourself how it is that an impact from the grassy knoll somehow drove JFK's head upwards, and managed to blow off only the right side of the skull (from front to back) without exiting to the left of the skull.

What's generally tiresome about those who are "just asking questions" about these things is that they uniformly assume that people who disagree with them haven't actually studied the matter.

 

[jberryhill]

And if you do download and play JFK Reloaded, try taking out the limo driver...

 

[johname]

/\ Jackie's hat must have been bobby pinned on lol

 

[E-Promote]

jberryhill, regarding your "two frame" post. Perhaps we should call it your "to frame" Oswald post

Seriously? You have chosen to isolate two frames of the film which depict the last frame of JFK reacting to his neck wound and the first frame of the fatal head shot. You are clearly claiming (in conjunction with your fatal shot from the rear theory) that JFK's very small movement forward as he reacts to the wound in his neck and leans toward Jackie (who leans into his aid) is a result of, and much more significant than, the violent backwards lurch his head and body take as he is stuck from the right/front.

The visual facts simply do not agree with your theory and I stick to my original statement that instead of explaining the absence of forward movement of JFK's body immediately following the fatal head shot itself (which you believe originated from the rear) you have chosen instead to explain away the visual proof that JFK's body lurches backwards and to the left immediately following the fatal head shot.

 

[jberryhill]

is a result of, and much more significant than, the violent backwards lurch his head and body take as he is stuck from the right/front.

Yes, for two reasons, and again you don't seem to understand physics.

1. Between 312 and 313 is clearly the moment of impact. Relative to everything else in the car (Jackie's hat, etc.) the ONLY motion is (a) JFK's head moving forward, pushing his chin into his chest, and (b) matter being ejected from the skull primary upward and forward.

2. You don't seem to understand that if the head is going to be "pushed back by the bullet", then that has to happen when the bullet hits, not several frames later. Impact forces don't work like they do in Wile E. Coyote cartoons, where he runs off a cliff and doesn't fall until he notices he has. They work right away.

You do agree that the "immediate" reaction between 312 and 313 is that his head goes forward.

Try this at home kids, bend your head forward so that your chin is almost touching your chest, in the pre-head-shot pose of JFK. Now, momentarily push on the back of your head. What does your head do? It bobs forward and then springs back because the musculature in your neck acts like a spring.

JFK's body lurches backwards and to the left immediately following the fatal head shot.

Not unless you don't understand the meaning of the word "immediately". Clearly he is hit between 312 and 313, and his head immediately moves forward. Then, over a longer time period, his head executes the rebound motion which, again, you can test on your own head with no special equipment. You also have to bear in mind that the frame rate is 18 frames/sec, and in under 1/10 of a second, the muscles in his body are getting random signals from what's left of the brain. So "immediately" in this context, if you are trying to separate a proposed physical effect from the following physiological effects, has a limit.

And this is a typical type of argument. If you believe in an objective reality, then events happen within a wider context of all of the facts defining that reality. This type of argument ignores the totality of the factual context by focusing on one thing to the exclusion of all else and simply asserting "I don't think that looks right." But if you believe that his head and body movements should be coordinated in the direction from where the shot came then why does his head bob back up? Any shot from the knoll/fence/overpass, etc. would be at a dramatic downward angle.

You have not provided any support at all for what you happen to think "a head should do" under the circumstances. Instead, you just assert that if he was shot from the front and right, that he should, after abruptly nodding forward for some reason you simply wave away, more casually lurch back and to the left.

But you have no explanation for why, MOST "immediately" after impact, and while matter is being sprayed primarily forward from the head, his head abruptly jerks forward faster than anything else in the car is moving. It's pretty obvious you have never closely looked at the relative geometry between frames 312 and 313.

Likewise, you have no explanation for the skull fragmentation and, notably, the lack of a left side exit path from the skull.

So, yeah, if you ignore the fact that his head first goes abruptly forward at impact, ignore the layout of Dealey Plaza and the required angle to get any clear frontal shot of his head, ignore the fact that Jackie wasn't hit, and ignore the absence of a left side exit path through the skull, then I suppose anything is possible.

 

[E-Promote]

What's generally tiresome about those who are "just asking questions" about these things is that they uniformly assume that people who disagree with them haven't actually studied the matter.

Personally I have assumed nothing of the kind, and I have failed to find any posts of mine in which this occurred. Oddly enough I did happen upon these posts in my search which would seem to be rife with that very same assumption as well as many others (in the order in which there were posted).

Ah, yes, the "official explanation" rhetorical device. I like the way you use it redundantly for emphasis. I'll bet you are a sharp guy who doesn't buy into the "official explanation" nonsense about icebergs and the Titanic, or sugar and tooth decay.

No, I'm not playing the 9/11 Truther game with you.

And, in case you were wondering, NASA really did put a number of people on the moon, there is no evidence that aliens are responsible for ancient builders' long-honed skill in moving and building with rocks, RFK was shot by Sirhan Sirhan, and MLK was shot by James Earl Ray, John Kerry lost the electoral vote in Ohio in 2004, the Shroud of Turin is a remarkable artifact of medieval origin, life on earth evolved to its present forms and astrology is bullsh*t.

Oh, and... Hitler committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin.

Obviously, you are not familiar with the Zapruder film.

You don't get to rely on your ignorance of what the film shows, and ignore the forensic evidence of the skull fragments and x-rays.

However, you obviously have never closely looked at his head movement between those two frames. Instead, the repeated mantra from a popular movie - "back and to the left" - is accepted as fact by persons who do not look at the plain evidence for themselves.

I think you would agree that we can keep this thread moving along a lot faster without the use of assumptions or speculations about eachother. After all, as someone once said:

We have serious political and Constitutional problems facing us. Bullsh*t does not help.

 

[Kenny]

Lively discussion.

Did anyone see the pope picture?

Peace,
Cy

 

[jberryhill]

I think you would agree that we can keep this thread moving along a lot faster without the use of assumptions or speculations about each other.

Yeah, if you want to reach back several posts and ignore the many factual contentions and questions you have not answered, sure.

I have supported my contentions by reference to a variety of physical evidence. You do not dispute that the initial movement of the head upon impact of the kill shot is in the forward direction. There's only so far forward a neck can bend, and the head is already bent fairly forward when that shot comes. It jerks forward and rolls back. You do not dispute the absence of an exit wound on the left side of the head, and you do not dispute that upon impact, matter is ejected from the front and top of the head, with no significant matter ejected from the left and back of the head. So, while you seem pretty clear that you believe the bullet came from the front because of the rebound of the head and ensuing spasm, it's not clear where you think the bullet must have gone after that. Did it make a sudden left turn and go out of the back of the rightside of the skull? Oh, and in the upward direction, when there is no clear upward trajectory tracing back to any plausible assassin location?

So, your argument ultimately boils down to (a) your assertion that the forward motion of the head most closely incident to impact somehow "doesn't matter", (b) your belief that later rearward motion of the head is due to an impact that actually occurred several tenths of a second prior to initiation of that rearward motion (Wile E. Coyote physics), and (c) the proposition that I'm a big meanie which excuses you from addressing the physical evidence.

Where does your theory locate the shooter? And, please note that if the shot is being fired upwards, to account for the top of the head being blown off; and straight-on, to account for the absence of a left side exit wound in the skull, then you're going to have to figure out why no one saw the guy down on the sidewalk or street, or perhaps inside the car itself, to be able to line up that trajectory that doesn't go through the windshield, or into Jackie.

And, happy news, ports of JFK Reloaded are available for Windows and Mac, if you look around, so you can also check the results of your shooter location against the actual geometry of Dealey Plaza and that of the car!

 

[E-Promote]

Yeah, if you want to reach back several posts and ignore the many factual contentions and questions you have not answered, sure.

I reached back to post those comments of yours because I'm not just going to sit by as you seemingly attempt to set some arrogant and authoritative tone to the discussion especially after you post that most people questioning the commission's conclusions appear to do that very same thing.

I'm also not ignoring any posts, I don't have any problem exploring any facet of the JFK murder or the 911 attacks, I'm just trying to keep my business going at the same time. I am also attempting to keep things as basic as possible to facilitate a better flow and to get down to the root of the matter.

At the moment there seems to be a bit of an impasse regarding the direction of the fatal shot. The amazing thing about your contention is that you want to put all of the attention on what you consider significant "forward" movement that you say takes place between two frames of the film (12/13) rather than the significant backward movement that takes place between nine frames of the film (13-22). This is what I have been saying from the start.

You appear to believe that a projectile traveling at least 2000 feet per second before hitting the bone of a human scull will propel the head and body of that person a very minor amount in the same direction in which it is traveling before propelling the head and body a very significant amount in the opposite direction in which it was traveling. That is simply not true.

 

[jberryhill]

you want to put all of the attention on what you consider significant "forward" movement that you say takes place between two frames of the film (12/13) rather than the significant backward movement that takes place between nine frames of the film (13-22). This is what I have been saying from the start.

All of the attention on two frames? Um, perhaps you missed the skull x-rays posted above.

You appear to believe that a projectile traveling at least 2000 feet per second before hitting the bone of a human scull will propel the head and body of that person a very minor amount in the same direction in which it is traveling before propelling the head and body a very significant amount in the opposite direction in which it was traveling. That is simply not true.

I'm going to guess you haven't spent much time hunting or shooting generally. Your statement above starts with a number, which suggests you are going to do a calculation of some kind, and then you just state "That is simply not true" again, based on nothing other than your personal belief in what happens under those circumstances.

Straight up, what's the largest animal you ever shot with a rifle? Because you don't seem to have much of an idea how a body reacts to getting shot in real life.

A full metal jacket round is pointy. It goes through things. It doesn't expand and gouge out as much tissue as a soft point round. It does not transfer much, or even most, of its kinetic energy to the target, but mostly passes through the target. People get this idea of bodies being dramatically thrown back from being shot by watching movies and television shows, but that's not how it works in real life.

The momentum that is going to be imparted to anything by a bullet at the unlucky end of a shooting - even if ALL of the kinetic energy were transferred to the target - is exactly the amount of momentum that is imparted to the person firing the gun. That's a fundamental conservation law of physics. Yes, different times of guns and rounds have varying amount of kickback, but they don't throw people across rooms the way you see in the movies. When someone is shot in the head, they basically just drop dead. Their body doesn't go flying away from the direction of impact. A particularly gruesome and well known example is the street execution captured on film in Vietnam. But more people who've actually been hunting know that what usually happens when you shoot a deer is that it looks at you and runs for a while before bleeding out. It is not bowled over by being shot. If you get a clean kill, it just drops.

Your head is like a weight on top of a spring. JFK is seated in the car. A bullet impact to the upper back right of his head is not going to impart some kind of lever action that is going to lift his head and torso up out of the seat and fling his body forward out of the seat. A 10 gram bullet is not going to do that, even at 2000 fps. What you see in the Zapruder film at the point of impact is a slight forward deflection of his head - again with his chin already close to his chest - and then a rebound back.

What's hilarious is that you seem to now notice that, yes, his head does jerk forward, but you say that, after the bullet has already clearly passed through his head there is "significant backward movement that takes place between nine frames of the film". This backward movement - taking a half a second, and after the bullet has already proceeded out of his head - is what you believe to be the impact effect of a bullet traveling 2000 fps. On top of that, you ignore the more sudden an immediate forward movement at the point in time that impact clearly occurs.

Ballistic gelatin is used to perform tests of terminal ballistics, in part because it is similar to body tissue. Here's a solid point going through a block of gelatin:

Notice that they don't have to clamp the gelatin to the table. It just sits there and the bullet goes through. It doesn't go flying off the table because a bullet hit it.

Here it is with soft point ammo:

That's the purpose of soft point ammo. It expands on impact and transfers much more kinetic energy to the target. STILL - even with soft point ammo - a small block of gelatin doesn't show much lateral displacement from being hit with it, but you think that JFK's entire body is going to be deflected (over the course of a half second) from his head being hit. You make this point solely by assertion and not by reference to any physical principle or experiment whatsoever. His body should do that simply because you say his body should do that.

I don't ignore the backward movement. In fact, I take into account the entire sequence, and both movements. You seem to believe that having your brain blown out is not going to have any muscular effects over a full half second (9 frames at 18 frames/s). That's nonsense. The entire nervous system is going "where did the brain go" in less than a tenth of a second. Furthermore, as I pointed out, if your head is leaning forward, and you get wacked on the back of the head, your head is going to bob forward and then rebound. I account for both motions, you simply want to ignore the forward motion because it conflicts with your conclusion. I'd be willing to also bet that the actual forward motion at the time of impact has never been pointed out to you before.

So, here we go... kinetic energy (KE) is 1/2 mv^2, so we are talking about a total kinetic energy of roughly 1840 Joules, that's less than a baseball fast pitch, as discussed here:

------
http://wredlich.com/ny/2013/01/projectiles-muzzle-energy-stopping-power/
Projectiles, Kinetic/Muzzle Energy and Stopping Power
Posted by warren on 23 January 2013, 6:13 pm

When bad guys are shot in Hollywood movies, they fly backward from the force of the shot and are immediately disabled.
--------

Now, remember, a baseball fast pitch of around 2000 Joules kinetic energy is going to transfer most of that energy to your body if it hits you straight on, because it is a big round ball that doesn't penetrate, pass through, and retain significant KE to keep going. If you get hit by a baseball, does it knock you off your feet when you are standing up? No. This happens in baseball pretty regularly, and batters don't go flying back into the catcher and the umpire.

So, to recap:

1. You don't seem to know how deer, gelatin, or anything else normally reacts to getting shot, but you believe that JFK's body should react differently from all of those other things.

2. You believe that the effect of a bullet impact on a head is delayed until after the bullet has passed through the head, manifests itself over the course of a half second later, and that what the head actually does at impact is not important.

3. You believe these things based on no apparent understanding of physics or ballistic experience or experimentation.

4. You have no explanation for the forward motion of JFK's head at the point of impact. Instead, you seem upset that I pointed it out to you for the first time.

Yes, I get it. You don't think JFK's body should have done what it did based on your personal incredulity. You want to do this by looking at something that occurs over the course of a half second well after actual impact of the shot. You also don't want to propose an actual trajectory or shooter position of this supposed shot from the front.

The more entertaining "front shot" folks have realized there isn't a trajectory that "pushes the head up" unless the shot is fired from inside the car, so they have moved on to proposing that one of the Secret Service agents inside the car fired the shot. Apparently, neither of the Connallys nor Jackie managed to notice a gun going off inches from them.

You appear to believe that a projectile traveling at least 2000 feet per second before hitting the bone of a human scull will propel the head and body of that person a very minor amount in the same direction in which it is traveling before propelling the head and body a very significant amount in the opposite direction in which it was traveling.

You got the first half right. Shooting someone in the head with full metal jacket ammo does not propel either their head or their body very far in any direction. Doesn't do it to a deer, and it doesn't do it to a pig head that isn't even attached to anything:

Watch the slo-mo of the bullet going through the pig's head at around 1:35. What does it do? Oh noes!! It deflects slightly in the direction the bullet passed, and then rolls back toward the direction of the shot. It doesn't even get knocked off the table.

You simply believe, based on nothing, that being shot in the head from the front will throw your body backwards, despite the fact that nothing else behaves that way when shot.

Here are some more shots to simulated heads:

NONE of them do what you say they should do when shot. Not a one.

Can you point to ANYTHING - any relevant physical calculation or experiment - which supports your claim that a shot to the head from the front will result in an immediate forward motion of the head followed by a slow roll backwards of the entire body, other than your simply saying it should do that?

And let's not forget the other thing in the Zapruder film you are completely ignoring. Why is the blood and tissue ejected from the head primarily upward and forward, with no significant blood spatter going rearward? Perhaps, as above, it is personally obvious to you for some reason that being shot from the front sends blood splatter forward into the direction from which the shot came, but you should let forensics investigators in on your fascinating discovery.

 

[jberryhill]

And... I'm not going to post it here because unlike the Zapruder film which has become familiar through repetition, this one is quite shocking if you haven't seen it before.

E-promote, do just one thing. Look for the Youtube video entitled "South Vietnam police chief shooting scene 1968 real video"

That is a video of a Viet Cong prisoner being shot at point-blank range to the head. I'll provide a verbal description though - A prisoner is standing in the street with his hands cuffed behind him. An ARVN officer walks up next to him, places the barrel of a pistol against the left side of the prisoner's head and fires.

While leaving aside that we can see the guy firing the gun right into his head, what does "E-promote's idea of body reactions to head shots" suggest should happen?

Because what happens is that his head hardly moves at all (and you can play it at .25x speed if you like). Just after the shot, his body spasms, and he falls straight down. His body is not jerked off to the right by the impact of a bullet fired directly into the left side of his head. It just doesn't happen that way in real life.

I suppose you must conclude that the guy with the gun is a fake, and that the fatal shot came from straight down on the VC captive, since that's the direction he goes. (or perhaps you want to say that he fell due to a controlled demolition, since that's apparently the only thing that makes things fall in the direction of gravity)

 

[enlytend]

Just when you thought you'd seen everything ...

Classy.
OK - back to the Kennedy debate

 

[jberryhill]

That's the Prime Minister of Montenegro, incidentally.

The speech was a piece of work too. They were dedicating a 9/11 memorial at NATO headquarters, and in memory of the lives lost there and in Manchester, Trump berated the other NATO members for spending money on the building and demanding that they pay more. What a fitting tribute to the lives lost by our allies fighting alongside us for years.

 

[enlytend]

That's the Prime Minister of Montenegro, incidentally.

The speech was a piece of work too. They were dedicating a 9/11 memorial at NATO headquarters, and in memory of the lives lost there and in Manchester, Trump berated the other NATO members for spending money on the building and demanding that they pay more. What a fitting tribute to the lives lost by our allies fighting alongside us for years.

Such an embarassment - what an ass.
He's running ads now claiming he's "under attack" and asking people to support his presidency. Straight out of the authoritarian playbook.
That whole bunch has got to go.

 

[jberryhill]

That whole bunch has got to go.

I agree.

Of course there are people who will be happy to tell you that the "real government" is unseen, secret, all-powerful, and that "it doesn't matter who is in charge". These sorts of people will tell you that "they're all the same" and inspire your apathy, dazzle you with bullshit and seek to sap your will to participate in politics, because no matter what you do or how you vote, "they" will still be in charge.

Who "they" are, in particular, may vary. They could be the Illuminati, Rothschilds (i.e. Jews), "international bankers" (i.e. Jews), Bilderbergers, Freemasons, the BFEE, the CFR, extraterrestrials, demons, gods, etc.. But whoever "they" happen to be, rest assured that "they" are in control, and your fascination with things as foolish as voting, working for candidates, or volunteering to do good in your community are all just a waste of time. But at least you will have the power of knowing "what's really going on" in the world beyond your Guy Fawkes mask.

 

[jberryhill]

Oh, fun fact about the guy that Trump pushed out of the way:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37890683

"Montenegro's chief special prosecutor has said "nationalists from Russia" were behind an attempt to assassinate the PM and carry out a coup.

Milivoje Katnic said the plot involved killing pro-Western PM Milo Djukanovic with a professional long-distance sharpshooter.

The plotters are accused of planning to break into parliament and bring a pro-Russian government to power."