Located in The Break Room, started by lennco, Jul 20, 2012
I'm a [email protected]
"The main reason for ObamaCare is NOT to provide everyone with Healthcare but rather to TAX."
"It's not a tax hike. It is a fee, an assessment"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HymUU7OADbU"]Romney: "It's not a tax hike. It is a fee, an assessment." - YouTube[/ame]
And Romney speaks FRENCH!!!!!! just like John Kerry. He used to live over there, I think maybe some liberals got to him and implanted secret policies. Gingrich was right, beware of French speaking politicians.
I am still a believer in a flat income tax!
The devil in that is at what % for those making x amount of dollars,
Make one or more million dollars, regardless of how, per year, pay say 30%.
Make 25,000 or less?
Pay at say 1 or 2%.
And brackets in between those figures.
With no deductions, no offsets, no nothing.
I am all for a flat tax
I think a standard 15% to 20% flat tax for all above $30k a year.
10% tax for $20k to $30k
and no tax for under $20k
Its worth a shot.
Cant be any worse then we are now.
Except H&R Block would probably go out of business, poor bastards :P
No, I don't like your cutoffs.
Intuit would also go out of business, the entire accounting industry would be hunting for new jobs.
Flat tax also on all companies.
Including all their offshore income.
Bunch more stuff I would love to see happen, but that is for another time.
No offsets or deductions would squash small businesses/ startups - especially sole proprietorships.
How? The insurance companies were going to turn over a new leaf on their own?
You would need more of a simple gradual stepup.
0% to 10% to 20%
KISS method - Keep It Simple Stupid
And to hell with the accounting industry.
That's one of the major points of a flat tax.
Besides they will still need to keep track of a companies books, so there will be some work for them.
But throw out this idiot complicated tax code we have.
Not really, because going in, they would know the tax rate on what they make, plus there would be a provision in the flat tax to take care of businesses and individuals who went into the red (but only for a limited time).
And honestly, ask yourself this:
Would a flat tax versus the tax crap we have now stop anyone from going into business?
Would Zuckerberg say, wow flat tax on what I make, I won't start facebook.
No, all small businesses and people who start a small business are in it to make money.
We could still do this today.
Simple, the feds give every single eligible person say a flat amount based on income to purchase insurance.
So if say you get $100 per month, you get insurance and it cost you $200 a month, the feds are paying half.
Now, the biggest problem with the entire health care industry is not just insurance companies, but the drug companies, the implement companies (cathethers, blah blah), the government wanting so much paperwork for a simple paper cut, and of course lawyers.
It would take an Alexander to cut the Gordian knot of our health care industry, but it can be done.
It's a TAX, so says the US Supreme Court, so says the ruling, Whatever Obama says or you say will never change that.
Obamacare will be repealed or unfunded anyway so what does it matter? If Romney wins it will be repealed, If Obama wins, Republicans take control of the Senate and the bill is repealed without his signature, How? Since the US Supreme Court ruled it a TAX, it only takes a simple majority in both house to repeal and override the President, So even though Roberts ruled in favor of Obamacare, he paved the way to make it easier to repeal.
Then you have the problem of funding it, Where is the money going to come from? certainly NOT from all those uninsured people who pay the TAX, that's only a fraction of what this monstrosity is going to cost.
And please don't assume I'm a Romney Fan, I'm NOT, I don't like or trust him anymore than McCain, Both are moderates like the Bush's, Question is do I support Romney? YES!. I would support just about ANY Republican, I would support Joe the Plumber over Obama, ANY conservative would be a substantial improvement.
What about insurance companies refusing to cover you, capping coverage or dropping coverage completely when you get to be too much of a "risk?"
$200/month? The cheapest individual plan around here averages around $300/month (depending on your age bracket, gender and where you live), much more for families. That plan has coverage limits on things like diagnostics (I think it's up to $750/year), and it doesn't cover chemotherapy so if you get cancer you're screwed. Stepping up from that are plans with double those premiums and huge deductibles. Either take your chances on care or pay more for both premiums AND the medical bills when you get sick.
It's a disgrace that this country has people who are afraid to go to the doctor because they can't afford it. WORKING people.
Everyone screams about "socialized health care" - meanwhile we've had "socialized education"* for years and nobody complains about that! I have friends in England (moved there from the US), Denmark, Canada - contrary to popular rumor, people in those countries are not dropping dead in the streets.
Every choice has its pros and cons - those countries tax but at least they use it to care of their own. As for the fabled horrendous wait times - right here in the USA I once waited 3+ hrs to see my primary physician ... then ended up seeing a different idiot doctor anyway because I couldn't wait any longer.
* = public schools (and public school employee benefits)
First, I gave a suppose on what the government would offer per month.
Now the government can just tell insurance companies, you give coverage to everyone for life period.
And at the same premiums as everyone else.
If needed, the government can set the premiums.
Now we have never had a problem seeing our doctor, go into the hospital, etc.
But then, we are out in the country and not in some big city.
For specialized needs, there are doctors who come down here from Des Moines once a week or every other week. Or we will have it set up for us to see a specialist in Des Moines.
Yes, I bitch about costs and all that stuff.
Why our country needs a better plan than what we have now or what obamacare will give us.
One last thing, everyone goes on about how socialized medicine works in other countries.
Well guess what? When people in those countries need real good care?
They come to the USA!
And look at Britain.
All the people who are dying every day because of little or no help in hospitals, etc.
In some countries in Europe it's still working fine and its free. Well its actually not free because we pay taxes to have free health care. Now whats happening here is that its getting a bit too expensive for governments, but that's their fault as illegal immigrants and there are millions of them in Europe are also eligible to free health care even though they have been in Europe for a few years and have paid very little in taxes to deserve the same benefits that someone who's been paying taxes for 30-40 years.
The UK is a paradise for illegals who will milk the system by getting all kinds of free benefits.
Those who go to the USA for medical treatment would be mostly rich people or dictators from around the world but few from Europe.
I disagree with point 4 because USA created in the name of god.
Now for a new topic.
What are your views on Legalizing Marijuana?
For me I am all for it.
I think the prohibition on marijuana has been a complete disaster and has created a crime eliminate like no other in the history of the US.
The illegal import of marijuana into the US is approximately a $60 to $100 billion dollar a year industry, and all of the profits going to criminals, killers, gangs, drug lords and dangerous organizations like terrorist.
And the US spends approximately $13 billion a year to fight the war on marijuana.
If marijuana were legalized and regulated, the marijuana black market would probably be entirely eliminated and all the money spent on the war on marijuana and court cost and the cost to imprison people for marijuana offenses could be turned to far more practical uses.
In an ideal world, marijuana would be Taxed and Regulated much like alcohol and tobacco are today.
My proposal is to have a 20 year Legalization period that would be set to expire in 20 years.
At that time the nation would put it to a vote to either make it permanently legal or to make it illegal once again.
People are always going to buy and use marijuana regardless of it being legal or illegal.
We will never know which way is better until we Legalize it for a period of time.
Full disclosure: I do Not smoke or use marijuana in any way or do I intend to.
Don't use it myself, never even tried it, but I'm fine with it. Stats say over 41% have tried it. More income for our country. This tho:
"At that time the nation would put it to a vote to either make it permanently legal or to make it illegal once again."
I think once you open the door, it's hard to close it. If it was legal for 20 years, going back and making it illegal, don't see that happening.
That is why I proposed to make the law with an expiration date built in.
The law would expire automatically unless the public votes to keep it.
We agree there. Obamacare was the result of a feeble attempt to hurry up and rubber stamp something while there was a chance, even if it wasn't what ANYONE (right, left or middle) really wanted.
That would be fine with me - but isn't that still "big government" telling private companies how to run their business? Surely the insurance companies would put up a huge stink about that!
My friends live in England. When one of them needed an MRI on her knee last year, she didn't worry about a thing - it was all taken care of. She competes internationally in a certain sport so she wouldn't tolerate inadequate care for a knee injury either! And I remember she got a nasty attack of food poisoning once - went to the ER, again, all taken care of and very competently. They went to England about 8 yrs ago on what was supposed to be a 1-2 year assignment for the husband's company, ended up staying. Sold their house in the US a couple of years back - very happy there.
Knowing that, it's an opportunity where we *could* improve on their system.
For it, for the same reasons lennco stated. There are also medicinal uses - legalization would simplify everything and free up resources to fight bigger battles.
CHeck out the real story about the NHS in Britain.
It is a shocker!
Especially if you are old!
I see no problem with the government telling the insurance companies not to charge over so much!
Right now, in obamacare, is a provision that went into effect this year that simply states that insurance companies have to pay out at least 85% of income to health care. Meaning next month, a heck of a lot of people are actually going to get a check from their insurance companies for this.
I am all for legalizing maryjane!
Have said that for years.
Tax like cigarettes.
Do this and overnight, no more illegal sales and purchases of maryjane.
Plus of course, no more criminalizing some poor kids for having maryjane. Our prisons have way to many kids in them because of maryjane.
Now let's talk about legalizing prostitution!
When crafting the nationalization of HealhCare, Canada was the model.. Even though the health care system in Canada is a disaster, wait times as long as 2-3 years, Go into any hospital or practitioners office and will see young and inexperienced doctors/surgeons, They also have a shortage of Doctors and Nurses, one of the reasons for that is many have fled to the United States for better pay.
Keep in mind Canada has a population of 32 Million. The United States has a population of 314 Million, over times that of Canada. This should give you an idea of what Obamacare will be like.
Are you in Canada? I could have sworn hearing stories of seniors taking trips over the border to Canada to get decent prices on their medicine.
"A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States,"
"while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S"
I have no idea, since I'm not in Canada. Do we have any Canadians in this thread/forum. How are you liking it?
We give woman the choice to have an abortion, but baulk at the idea of selling her body for sex.
I lived in Singapore a few years where prostitution is legal, and this is one of the most strictest countries in SE Asia.. They have a red light district but you wouldn't know it when driving through the area, no advertising is allowed, no street walkers allowed. In the years I lived there I never heard of any problems and I read the paper almost everyday.
My wife orders her insulin from Canada.
Here its $135 a vial.
In Canada you get 3 vials for $104
That's a saving of $300.
Its the exact same insulin.
We dont have health insurance anymore because we cant afford it.
I am self employed and my wife's job dropped all of its health insurance.
I use to have health insurance for the both of us through my business and I paid about $500 a month but its now about $700+ a month.
We cant afford it.
Its party that high because she is a type 1 diabetic.
She is now looking for a better job.
Oh well what can you do
All I'm going by is what I know first-hand from some close friends who live there....
That sucks. And it's a perfect example what's broken with health care / health insurance in this country . Make people pay through the nose for coverage, then punish them if they actually NEED it.
Self-employed (and anyone else purchasing as an individual) get hit the hardest on the premiums.
Here's something to consider.
Every time you lose your job, change job, you will likely get a new provider. Every time this happens your medical conditions are all pre-conditions.
The average person has 21 jobs in their life (if I remember correctly).
That's a lot of things that aren't covered eventually.
I'm a [email protected] still but I can't resist commenting. This will be my last though
If you think it is bad now?
Wait, obamacare will make today seem like the good old days.
Right now, polls show a minimum of 10% of companies dropping employee health plans.
But the real consensus is, from colleges, schools, hospitals, clinics, etal?
More like a minimum of 50%.
Big reason so many drugs are cheaper in Canada?
Because the government basically tells the drug companies what to charge.
So the drug companies go along with this, because they can just raise the prices in the USA to more than make up the difference.
Also why so many drugs (aids, hiv for instance) are cheaper in poor countries.
We people in the USA do actually support the health care and drug costs of the rest of the world.
Separate names with a comma.