NameSilo

The NP's Official USA Political Thread

Located in The Break Room started by lennco, Jul 20, 2012.

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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

  1. Both Parties

    178 vote(s)
    49.0%
  2. Neither Party

    31 vote(s)
    8.5%
  3. Democrats

    67 vote(s)
    18.5%
  4. Republicans

    87 vote(s)
    24.0%
Total: 363 vote(s)
  1. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I immigrated back in 1982.

    I was a kid but old enough to remember the whole experience. Immigration is not fun. It is a humbling experience but if you can survive it and become a citizen it is worth it. I thank Canada for teaching me English (among other things) with great schooling and teachers. English is my first language now.

    My belief is that health care is the right of every person. If you see someone hurt like in a car accident or maybe heart attack or even a fall, natural reaction is to help. It is the human thing to do. One of the jobs of a government is to protect its citizens. Keep them safe.

    If a country can provide the right environment to start a business then that is a form of help. Back when I was a kid, you could get a steady job for 25 to 30 years and retire comfortably. That's also a form of help. Today, I wonder. I have a business so someone else comment if that is still possible. I think anyone with healthy self-esteem does not want social help except for help to get a real job.

    Canada has cut back on providing support on dental and eye care because, in my observation, the population is aging and the health care system is going bankrupt. Not enough tax paying population, population is also getting older, and the government can't afford to cover everything. That's why immigration is still needed. Unless you can convince your citizens to have more babies. But, of course, this is province by province so I can't speak definitively for the entire country.

    Every single government program/agency will have politicians trying to fill their pockets. So that's a problem as well. But the alternative to have corporate execs fill their pockets even more is not a better option.

    I am seeing things going down in Canada, the US, and the world. But, IMO, the problem is mostly with the politicians and their global policies/decisions plus greed. Immigrants are the scapegoat and the symptom. I'd be happy to discuss with you what led to current asylum seeking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  2. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    That's the first time I have heard the US blamed for the Ottoman Empire.

    This is what I mean. It takes a very narrow and limited view of history (nothing before the last century or so) to think this way. It's a big world, and all races have blood on their hands - lots of it. Because that's how things were done throughout most periods of history in most place of the world. Point your finger at anyplace on the globe and you can find mass murder and genocide - most of it having nothing to do with the USA you speak of.

    Funny thing is, I agree that the USA is causing bloodshed and trouble around the world today. As awful as the US government is, I can see many worse options. Its main problem is naivety and too much power. There is no counterbalance, and the populace are mostly sheep.I am not so naive to think that if the USA disappeared tomorrow some other nation or warlord wouldn't step in to take over the job. This is national leaders do. Personally, I think nations are obsolete and should be abolished. It can't happen overnight - certainly not in my lifetime. But the whole concept of "borders" you mentioned is a fairly new concept in history.

    This white guilt thing you have is actually dangerous. It leads to not defending any of your institutions because they have done wrong. You throw out the good with the bad. And the worse will rush in to fill the vacuum.

    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

    (I hope you got past the first episode of Yeats.)
     
  3. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You do understand your proposal is completely unsustainable?

    More immigrants. More babies. More people.... forever. The government over-promised and over-spent, and now you really believe the lies they tell you about simply needing more people? Like somebody borrows $1000 from me and can't pay it back - and then says they need $10,000 after which everything will be paid back.

    One of the biggest problems facing humanity and our environment now is overpopulation. It needs to come down. And yet not a single one of these deadbeat governments mentions that - instead they urge even more people! Full steam ahead, damn the environment!

    Like you said, the health care system is going bankrupt. It is slowly failing. Accept it and adapt. Don't destroy the world to save your unsustainable healthcare system.
     
  4. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Maybe the US doesn’t necessarily need that today. But look at Canada and the size of the country vs population. Governments need tax payer money to cover their payroll and services.

    They want a larger population that will pay taxes. Looking into the future this means immigrants and babies. An aging population is short term and a liability from a purely cold business POV.

    Immigrants are even better because they came this far and if they are willing to go through the system they are more likely to start a business and become a contributor to the economy.

    Come to Toronto for the best Shawarma and Vietnamese soup.

    Who says overpopulation is a real problem? Come to Canada. We can accommodate comfortably 3 times the population of the US at least. And I have driven through the States a number of times, saw lots of empty land. Same with Mexico. So where is the overpopulation problem?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  5. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Well, anyone who is honest. I get that Canada is empty - I go there often, have family there. But population is a global issue. People always say "look at all the land." But the land is a small part of the equation. Each person uses global resources such as water, oil, electricity, cattle, seafood and sea products, wood, etc. (heck, throw in global warming) - and each person contributes to environmental decay. How much land they actually reside on is a tiny fraction of the land they actually use indirectly. All of these problems and more can be alleviated with some certainty through population reduction. No other proposed solution comes close.

    Leaving aside the environment... any financial plan that requires non-stop population growth is not sustainable. Yes, Canada can bring in immigrants in large numbers. Even leaving that aside, there will come a point at which Canada cannot accept more people. This is not a political issue. It is a fact of life for every single species on earth. There are limits to population growth that are harshly enforced by nature. I would prefer people to do it in a responsible manner, but I expect nature will do as nature does. Water shortages, famine, disease, war, environmental destruction bringing death and disease....

    Thanks, but Vietnam is a lot closer for me. And their pho is better than the pho in Canada. In fact, the food is general is excellent there. Not much good shawarma to be found in East Asia though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  6. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unlike most of the EU Leftist governments who think that the solution is opening the borders and allowing the third world in to fix the low birth rate....

    Hungary offers to pay for cars, mortages and tax bills for big families

    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban announced over the weekend that he will offer families tax breaks and loan benefits in a bid to boost his country's birth rate.

    In the announcement on Sunday, Orban pointed toward his notorious anti-immigration policies as a reason for launching the incentives.

    “There are fewer and fewer children born in Europe," he said.

    "For the West, the answer is immigration. For every missing child there should be one coming in and then the numbers will be fine.”

    “But we do not need numbers. We need Hungarian children,” he added.

    Seven points from Orban's 'Hungarian babies' programme
    • A lifetime personal income-tax exemption for women who give birth to and raise at least four children
    • A low-interest loan of €31 500 for women under the age of 40 marrying for the first time. A third of the debt will be forgiven when a second child is born and the entire loan waived after any third child.
    • A loan program for families with at least two children to help them buy homes will also be expanded
    • After the birth of a second child, the government will give €3 150 towards its family's mortgage, after the third child, €12 580 and €3 150 for every subsequent child
    • Grand-parents could be eligible for "GYED" - a type of paid maternity leave until their grandchildren reach the age of three
    • The Hungarian nursery system will be expanded with 21 000 new places by 2022
    • A subsidy of €7 862 will be offered toward the purchase a seven-seat vehicle for families with three or more children
    What's the fertility situation across the EU?
    In order for a population to completely sustain or replace itself without relying on migration, each woman would need to give birth to 2.1 children, which is generally accepted as the rate of "replacement-level fertility."

    However, the European Union's average fertility rate sits below this at 1.6 births per woman, according to Eurostat statistics from 2016.

    Hungary's fertility rate at 1.45 births is therefore below even the EU average.

    In fact, according to the same statistics, even the EU countries with the highest fertility rates —France at 1.92 and Sweden at 1.88 — don't reach the rate for replacement-level fertility.

    Therefore, population numbers are maintained and increased by other factors, such as an ageing population or migration.

    A data set produced by the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis and the Vienna Institute of Demography found that the EU could expect its population to decline more than 5% by 2050, should migration statistics be waivered.

    However, an EU population inclusive of migration could expect to see a growth of 6.6% by 2050.

    https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/11/hungary-offers-families-tax-and-loan-breaks-to-boost-birth-rate
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  7. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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  8. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The planet is able to sustain population growth for at least the next few thousands of year.

    It may appear when you look at the pictures of refugee camps in the Mid East or the "caravans" heading for the US that there is an overpopulation problem. But that is nonsense.

    People living out their natural lives is not killing the resources or using them up. It is powerful corporations that are exploiting the natural resources for monetary gain. For example, the current government's pulling back the protections of some of the most natural and pristine areas of Alaska to allow for oil drilling (and only God knows what else) will speed up this destruction of earth's resources. That's where you should direct your concerns. Not immigrants.

    Bingo. And that's what the politicians hope you will do. They will try their best to scare the bejeezus out of you so that you will vote for them and not the other person. That is what Trump is very good at. "If you don't vote for me this or that will happen." You get the picture. Fear is the strongest manipulator in politics.

    Below is a video that explains in very understandable terms how illegal immigration is a made up problem created by the system. And there is a reason for that.

    I am not saying that illegal immigration doesn't exist but I don't believe that the politicians want to completely eradicate illegal immigration. They want illegal immigration to exist at controlled levels because it is a very useful political talking point to get votes. As illustrated by this video.

    OK, here is the video but understand that there is a lot of vulgar language that some may find upsetting or offensive. You've been warned.

     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  9. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    What evidence or serious research can you link to that backs that assertion up? I think none - because that's a pretty far out there opinion.

    I see overpopulation firsthand. Refugee caravans are a different topic entirely, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. We are not talking about immigrants, but population. One thing at a time.

    Now that's nonsense. Who do you think these powerful corporations are selling the oil to? People living out their "natural lives," that's who. And if you have an issue with powerful corporations, then maybe you should go after the politicians who make them powerful. You know, the politicians who are supposed to work for the common people.... Those same politicians rant on about powerful corporations so they can turn around and shake down those same corporations for a piece of the pie.

    People will seek to make money, whether one individual or a large corporation. This evil corporation mantra is a tool used to control the voter. Most of these corporations become overly powerful because of the help they get from government. And government can help because it has been made overly powerful itself by silly voters.
     
  10. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    LOL... WOW... you really need to study up on the massive population growth in Africa, in most Muslim countries and a few other parts of the world, before coming out with that ridiculous statement

    Surely you can't be serious in putting up a video by one of the biggest Trump and Conservative haters out there, talking about immigration, in the hope that some of us are gonna believe that filthy mouthed, so called comedian POS...
     
  11. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    "It is not the number of people on the planet that is the issue – but the number of consumers and the scale and nature of their consumption," says David Satterthwaite, a senior fellow at the International Institute for Environment and Development in London. He quotes Gandhi: "The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed."

    Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t make them wrong. It’s not about the person. Where is he wrong?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  12. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, the old "greed is the enemy" slogan. As though people are going to eat less, live in cold homes and suffer by choice. This is a weird Marxist/Puritan concept that people are just somehow too "greedy." And even if that were the case (which it's not), that the basic emotion greed is something we can eliminate. If people just weren't people, we would be fine....

    I live in the real world. It's possible to get people to reduce population, and that will have a massively positive effect on our environment and world.The "we all must consume less" approach is mostly fantasy. Yes, less conspicuous consumption would be great, as well as improved technologies. But they will not be nearly as effective (or realistic) as reducing the population.
     
  13. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  14. GILSAN

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  15. GILSAN

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  16. GILSAN

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  17. GILSAN

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  18. GILSAN

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  19. GILSAN

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  20. GILSAN

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  21. GILSAN

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  22. GILSAN

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    Here's another circus...
    Best Moments From The Lewandowski Hearing
     
  23. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  24. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The world in 2019
    Women have penises, men have periods

    Temperature change is a climate crisis

    Real socialism has never been tried

    Authoritarianism is Liberalism

    You can´t be racist to white people

    Democracy is voting till you get the right result

    Disagree? You're a Nazi
     
  25. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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