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alert The fund can't be withdrawal from Epik.com via Masterbucks wallet

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It happened on 23rd Aug 2022 and this matter lasted almost one month without any process. Masterbucks.com declined my fund withdrawal and disabled the button of fund withdrawal. And I contacted Epik.com and got no further action even if Rob Monster got involved in it for two weeks. All the time I was told in email by management review.

What is wrong with Epik.com? Do you think it is normal to disable fund withdrawal? How can I get back my fund from Epik.com? Thanks for your suggestion.

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Ridiculous since we built that company.

Clearly they make money on expired domains and the marketplace.

New management doesn't understand one of the attractions for people using Epik? It is sad to see a registrar lose its market like this. Then again, with all the employees leaving it could be a glitch in the system that hasn't been fixed or noticed.

Regards...jmcc

 
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The 'real' assets are the domains in the form of the recurring revenue generated as those names are renewed. If it is similar to other recurring revenue sales I've been involved with, take the renewal charges less registrar costs which equals x, then take x and multiply times 3-5 to determine what a quick sale of those names would be worth. Of course, if this happens it would mean an end to Epik

For me, the platform itself is the main thing that drew me to Epik years ago and once I was given cost/near cost for registrations it became my primary registrar.

There were a few people that worked there over the years that I would like to see come back in the event it survives. It would take a thorough 'house cleaning' to make sure the software, etc has been properly repaired and updated...perhaps some type of oversight of a neutral entity.

I'm not familiar with how much ICANN gets involved in cases like this. Maybe someone with a better understanding of the process could provide some information re: oversight.

My pricing there is being beat by more than one other registrar so that side of the incentive 'coin' is gone for me.
If we were talking about an average registrar, I would agree with you.
But we are talking specifically about a registrar that has very serious "going concern" issues..PLUS potentially significant liability issues (civil and/or criminal) that are seemingly snowballing by the month.

I can't imagine any well-run company finding the risk worthwhile, especially considering this is a LOW margin business already. The only two ways I am aware of that would significantly reduce the liability risk to the gaining registrar is via ICANN domain-only auction (if they have an uncontrolled failure) or bankruptcy auction (if it is a strategic wind-down).
 
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If we were talking about an average registrar, I would agree with you.
But we are talking specifically about a registrar that has very serious "going concern" issues..PLUS potentially significant liability issues (civil and/or criminal) that are seemingly snowballing by the month.

I can't imagine any well-run company finding the risk worthwhile, especially considering this is a LOW margin business already. The only two ways I am aware of that would significantly reduce the liability risk to the gaining registrar is via ICANN domain-only auction (if they have an uncontrolled failure) or bankruptcy auction (if it is a strategic wind-down).
Yes, I took all that into consideration. The typical multiplier in this type recurring revenue stream can be anywhere between 6-10. In the current conditions, I give it a 3-5 range. I've never worked with this exact scenario before, so someone with experience with registrar valuations might offer specific information.

Someone above (might have been you) mentioned piecing it off. In that event, I would not even pretend to have an idea what the 'business' (without domains) would be worth. Unless it can be patched up, the software side might not hold much value.
 
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Yes, I took all that into consideration. The typical multiplier in this type recurring revenue stream can be anywhere between 6-10. In the current conditions, I give it a 3-5 range. I've never worked with this exact scenario before, so someone with experience with registrar valuations might offer specific information.

Someone above (might have been you) mentioned piecing it off. In that event, I would not even pretend to have an idea what the 'business' (without domains) would be worth. Unless it can be patched up, the software side might not hold much value.
Epik already started with a limited pool of potential buyers because of their clientele and history. Most companies would probably not want any association with them.

Now throw in the massive data breach and you have millions in debt... There also appear to be some very serious investigations going on.

When you factor in assets and debts, I am not sure what they really have of value. It is not like Epik is really some well known brand. If they are known, it is probably not for good things.

Brad
 
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Under the name epik.com , you can make a website about epic disasters in business.
 
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Epik already started with a limited pool of potential buyers because of their clientele and history. Most companies would probably not want any association with them.

Now throw in the massive data breach and you have millions in debt... There also appear to be some very serious investigations going on.

When you factor in assets and debts, I am not sure what they really have of value. It is not like Epik is really some well known brand. If they are known, it is probably not for good things.

Brad
I'll give it one more shot.

There is no doubt 'epik' has experienced significant brand damage due to the many things described in this thread. I have not suggested anywhere someone would pick up the whole ball of wax at this point (too many unknowns).

The domains, however, are an asset that can be sold off in bulk or in part to a buyer(s). This should give those owed money a small degree of comfort if that is something the internet overlords would allow. The legal system could grind on for quite a while untangling everything...a long while...should it come to that.

There is a world full of investors that are looking for distressed situations in all business fields...it happens every day. Everything is for sale...it always depends on price.

Again, I have no experience in the registrar industry...it might be that ICANN would not allow any 'partial' sale of domain assets. It might be it all has to be held together to the bitter end if that is what happens.

If there is a 'white knight' somewhere in the wings, they should come forward sooner than later.
 
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I'll give it one more shot.

There is no doubt 'epik' has experienced significant brand damage due to the many things described in this thread. I have not suggested anywhere someone would pick up the whole ball of wax at this point (too many unknowns).

The domains, however, are an asset that can be sold off in bulk or in part to a buyer(s). This should give those owed money a small degree of comfort if that is something the internet overlords would allow. The legal system could grind on for quite a while untangling everything...a long while...should it come to that.
What domains though? It looks like most of the Epik owned, and potentially some customer domains, went with that bulk transfer to Key Systems.

If you are talking about customer domains, sure other registrars would take them in a RegisterFly situation.

Outside that, I don't see someone stepping up to really want a company with millions in debt, as well as reported investigations likely involving things like commingling funds, and other potential civil and criminal issues.

I bet the FBI is going to be especially interested in the part involving interstate commerce and electronic payments that involved an unlicensed escrow company taking $100K in payment then leaving the domain seller with $91K in magic beans.

I just don't see it.

Brad
 
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If you are talking about customer domains, sure other registrars would take them in a RegisterFly situation.
This/these are the domains I refer to. I'm not familiar with registerfly...I assume that is when ICANN steps in to move names from a registrar.

If that is the case, I need to spend some time learning about that.
 
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This/these are the domains I refer to. I'm not familiar with registerfly...I assume that is when ICANN steps in to move names from a registrar.

If that is the case, I need to spend some time learning about that.
Yeah, they lost ICANN accreditation and the domains were moved to another registrar.

I think that is one of the most likely outcomes in this situation.

It is not even the debt or Masterbucks issue, but at some point you can't really be ICANN accredited if you can't process the basic registrar functions like registrations and renewals. Even more troubling is this inability has reportedly lead to the loss of customer domains.

Brad
 
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Thanks for the link...now I understand more.

ICANN will only get involved in the clean up aspect after a registrar failure. I'm seeing what @bmugford is saying.

A registrar would have to group and then shop the domain 'assets' prior to losing accreditation to generate any funds.
This is another problem for Epik. When there is commingling of funds and assets, it is going to be much harder to split off any piece.

There is a tangled web of people and companies involved.

Rob Monster
Epik Inc
Epik Holdings Inc
Kingdom Ventures

and on and on...

Who actually owns what assets?

Brad
 
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Thanks for the link...now I understand more.

ICANN will only get involved in the clean up aspect after a registrar failure. I'm seeing what @bmugford is saying.

A registrar would have to group and then shop the domain 'assets' prior to losing accreditation to generate any funds.
Now you are "starting" to get "it".
You also can look at some of the other registrar's that have failed, like Pheenix which was primarily a drop catcher, back in the day. (At one time it was one of the go-to domain drop catchers, I even used it myself for years, but thankfully got out before things went south.)

Here is a list of ICANN registrars that have already been terminated, suspended, and/or found in breach. It probably wouldn't hurt to do a google / news search for the "terminated" ones to learn some of the specifics of how things transpire in these sorts of unfortunate situations.
icann .org/compliance/notices/

Lastly as you go through the list you will start noticing that some of the registrar's appeared on the list multiple times with various forms of punishment before being terminated. Other registrar's just show up on the "breach" list, don't do anything about it (already failed), and then get sent to the terminated list.

PS: One last thought on this. Search these forums for the failed registrar's. Many of them are small and probably not mentioned or barely mentioned, but I know some of them have had their own threads from bygone years that would make for some interesting historical reading (since the posts would have been in real time as events were unfolding back then).
 
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I am going to post this again.

These are some of the key questions / concerns that Epik needs to address. Brian Royce should not be given a platform until he is willing to address specific issues.

This is not a comprehensive list, just a starting point.

1.) How did the domain Patterns.com come into Epik’s ownership?

2.) Why were 4,000+ domains moved from Epik to Key Systems towards the end of January?

I have seen some reports of a portfolio sale, but no confirmation. This transfer included Patterns.com.

There have also been reports from customers that their domains might have been included in this transfer.

3.) If this was a portfolio sale, where did the funds go? I have not seen many reports of existing customer debts being paid.

For instance the reported $1.5M owed to Domain Empire, or the $91K to @Kathleen Kalaf for the Candida.com. Epik took $100K for that domain and stuck her with $91K in Masterbucks, or magic beans which can’t be withdrawn.

This sale happened well after Rob was replaced as CEO. Brian reportedly asked Kathleen to settle for $50K. That is just ridiculous.

@Igor Gabrielan has been owed $55K+ for months. There are many others that are owed thousands of dollars.

4.) How much is actually owed in total customer debt. Does Epik even know?
Just from reports, it is in the millions.

5.) Who is even left working at Epik after the exodus of employees?

I never saw anyone respond to the $20K in Masterbucks that was removed from former employee @MayChen.com account.

6.) There have been many reports of renewals not being applied for weeks at the registry level and the funds being returned in store credit. This is turning actually money into into store credit.

Even more troubling, this reportedly lead to some of the domains being sold at Name Liquidate because the renewal was not applied.

Epik can't even seem to carry out the basic functions of a registrar like registrations and renewals.

7.) What is the deal with Rob's involvement with Epik?

You make it seem like he is no longer involved, but he is still the Chairman and majority shareholder. Correct?

@DomainNameWire, or any one else, feel free to use this list if you want.

We need specifics on what is actually going on.

Brad
 
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According to an old NP thread, "Registerfly problems stemmed from a gay lovers dispute":
https://www.namepros.com/threads/registerfly-problems-stemmed-from-a-gay-lovers-dispute.303366/

In any case, RegisterFly had a good number of retail customers. In Epik case, there are portfolios owned by (remaining) domainers, including Epik and Rob itself, as well as former employees (intelliname) and shareholders (Braden Pollock). Acquiring such customers should be of little or no interest to retail registrars (different pricing model), and may be of limited interest to domainer-oriented registrars. The problem is that the gaining registrar should receive all the epik-regged domains in particular extension such as .com. How many registrars are willing to deal with all the related headaches (ownership issues such as the portfolio of @Michele Dinoia , and also with retail customers who used epik as the "last resort" registrar, those which are/were - in epik words - "deplatformed"? Even if the decision makers @ other registrar share the same ideology (free speech as per Epik, far-right as per wikipedia) on personal level, it is far from obvious that they are willing and ready to complicate their daily business tasks by receivng Epik retail customers.

So, imo, other possible scenarios are:

- Due to lack of satisfactory offers, ICANN will activate "last resort" registrar. It is supposed (and allowed to) perform only basic functions like account login and authcode retrieval, to allow registrants to retreive authcodes and transfer their domains to their preferred registrar.

- Epik will make a deal with opensrs/tucows and convert itself to tucows reseller. ICANN will be happy as the domains will go to tucows from de-accredited Epik. Remaining Epik customers will still manage their domains via epik.com . Who will own and run epik .com is another question. Tucows is probably the only registrar who may be willing to serve epik retail customers, as they already serve njalla (just google it).
 
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So, imo, other possible scenarios are:

- Due to lack of satisfactory offers, ICANN will activate "last resort" registrar. It is supposed (and allowed to) perform only basic functions like account login and authcode retrieval, to allow registrants to retreive authcodes and transfer their domains to their preferred registrar.

- Epik will make a deal with opensrs/tucows and convert itself to tucows reseller. ICANN will be happy as the domains will go to tucows from de-accredited Epik. Remaining Epik customers will still manage their domains via epik.com . Who will own and run epik .com is another question. Tucows is probably the only registrar who may be willing to serve epik retail customers, as they already serve njalla (just google it).
I think many registrars would not even want these customer domains in an all or nothing scenario.
While the vast majority of domains are not an issue, they would also come with a lot of problem clients.

People who have moved to Epik over the years because their original registrar booted them, usually for TOS violations.

There are certainly some registrars that would not want this headache, like GoDaddy probably.

If you are a large company you don't really have much to gain. It is probably not worth the connection to Epik after all these debacles.

Brad
 
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Do we know exactly purchased the portfolio from Epik or at least have some ideas. I've heard from several people that their domains were sold by Epik.
 
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I am going to post this again.

These are some of the key questions / concerns that Epik needs to address. Brian Royce should not be given a platform until he is willing to address specific issues.

This is not a comprehensive list, just a starting point.

1.) How did the domain Patterns.com come into Epik’s ownership?

2.) Why were 4,000+ domains moved from Epik to Key Systems towards the end of January?

I have seen some reports of a portfolio sale, but no confirmation. This transfer included Patterns.com.

There have also been reports from customers that their domains might have been included in this transfer.

3.) If this was a portfolio sale, where did the funds go? I have not seen many reports of existing customer debts being paid.

For instance the reported $1.5M owed to Domain Empire, or the $91K to @Kathleen Kalaf for the Candida.com. Epik took $100K for that domain and stuck her with $91K in Masterbucks, or magic beans which can’t be withdrawn.

This sale happened well after Rob was replaced as CEO. Brian reportedly asked Kathleen to settle for $50K. That is just ridiculous.

@Igor Gabrielan has been owed $55K+ for months. There are many others that are owed thousands of dollars.

4.) How much is actually owed in total customer debt. Does Epik even know?
Just from reports, it is in the millions.

5.) Who is even left working at Epik after the exodus of employees?

I never saw anyone respond to the $20K in Masterbucks that was removed from former employee @MayChen.com account.

6.) There have been many reports of renewals not being applied for weeks at the registry level and the funds being returned in store credit. This is turning actually money into into store credit.

Even more troubling, this reportedly lead to some of the domains being sold at Name Liquidate because the renewal was not applied.

Epik can't even seem to carry out the basic functions of a registrar like registrations and renewals.

7.) What is the deal with Rob's involvement with Epik?

You make it seem like he is no longer involved, but he is still the Chairman and majority shareholder. Correct?

@DomainNameWire, or any one else, feel free to use this list if you want.

We need specifics on what is actually going on.

Brad
On January 19 2023 ( 13 days ago) I renewed the domains below, that was at 9 AM my time, I received the invoice full paid and my credit card was billed, I have all the evidence if you want to see, after 2 hours I received an email saying that the domains was dropped and if I want I can restore paying $ 7470, I immediately sent an email to the support (never get an answer) I then contacted Mr Monster by skype and he said that probably was a glitch of the .me registry, he told me to email Mr. Brian Royce and that he will also tell him, after 13 days the domains are non on my account, no refund was given to me, and no answer from Mr. Brian Royce and no answer from the support.

506.ME
534.ME
544.ME
547.ME
548.ME
549.ME
564.ME
584.ME
621.ME
629.ME
635.ME
643.ME
638.ME
637.ME
645.ME
652.ME
648.ME
659.ME
653.ME
673.ME
679.ME
683.ME
687.ME
692.ME
695.ME
698.ME
706.ME
709.ME
726.ME
744.ME
734.ME
746.ME
756.ME
743.ME
764.ME
784.ME
824.ME
844.ME
854.ME
842.ME
938.ME
953.ME
536.ME
545.ME
574.ME
634.ME
672.ME
664.ME
681.ME
684.ME
693.ME
685.ME
741.ME
736.ME
762.ME
748.ME
794.ME
807.ME
796.ME
826.ME
836.ME
841.ME
834.ME
816.ME
742.ME
846.ME
862.ME
932.ME
927.ME
896.ME
947.ME
946.ME
942.ME
937.ME
926.ME
974.ME
802.ME
894.ME
984.ME
957.ME
952.ME
948.ME
983.ME

I was billed $ 979.40 for the renewal of the domains that I don't own, it was renewed before the expiration, again no refund on my account.
 
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Do we know exactly purchased the portfolio from Epik or at least have some ideas. I've heard from several people that their domains were sold by Epik.
I am not sure, but I anticipate it is really only a matter of time until there are details about what went on there.

Brad
 
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I owned the domains above since 2008, so not only I lost the domains, I lost also 15 years of renewal for each domain, all the domains are on the epik account, see some whois:

Whois data for 506.me:​

Domain Name: 506.ME
Registry Domain ID: D108500000000325567-AGRS
Registrar WHOIS Server:
Registrar URL: www.epik.com
Updated Date: 2023-01-22T22:20:33Z
Creation Date: 2008-12-20T04:06:50Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2023-12-20T04:06:50Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Epik, Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 617
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone:
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod https://icann.org/epp#autoRenewPeriod
Registrant Organization: Anonymize, Inc.
Registrant State/Province: WA
Registrant Country: US
Name Server: NS3.EPIK.COM
Name Server: NS4.EPIK.COM

Whois data for 534.me:​

Domain Name: 534.ME
Registry Domain ID: D108500000000325566-AGRS
Registrar WHOIS Server:
Registrar URL: www.epik.com
Updated Date: 2023-01-31T09:01:16Z
Creation Date: 2008-12-20T04:06:50Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2022-12-20T04:06:50Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Epik, Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 617
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone:
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: pendingDelete https://icann.org/epp#pendingDelete
Domain Status: serverHold https://icann.org/epp#serverHold
Domain Status: redemptionPeriod https://icann.org/epp#redemptionPeriod
Registrant Organization: Anonymize, Inc.
Registrant State/Province: WA
Registrant Country: US
Name Server: NS3.EPIK.COM
Name Server: NS4.EPIK.COM

all the domains has the landing page "for sale" of epik.
 
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On January 19 2023 ( 13 days ago) I renewed the domains below, that was at 9 AM my time, I received the invoice full paid and my credit card was billed, I have all the evidence if you want to see, after 2 hours I received an email saying that the domains was dropped and if I want I can restore paying $ 7470, I immediately sent an email to the support (never get an answer) I then contacted Mr Monster by skype and he said that probably was a glitch of the .me registry, he told me to email Mr. Brian Royce and that he will also tell him, after 13 days the domains are non on my account, no refund was given to me, and no answer from Mr. Brian Royce and no answer from the support.

506.ME
534.ME
544.ME
547.ME
548.ME
549.ME
564.ME
584.ME
621.ME
629.ME
635.ME
643.ME
638.ME
637.ME
645.ME
652.ME
648.ME
659.ME
653.ME
673.ME
679.ME
683.ME
687.ME
692.ME
695.ME
698.ME
706.ME
709.ME
726.ME
744.ME
734.ME
746.ME
756.ME
743.ME
764.ME
784.ME
824.ME
844.ME
854.ME
842.ME
938.ME
953.ME
536.ME
545.ME
574.ME
634.ME
672.ME
664.ME
681.ME
684.ME
693.ME
685.ME
741.ME
736.ME
762.ME
748.ME
794.ME
807.ME
796.ME
826.ME
836.ME
841.ME
834.ME
816.ME
742.ME
846.ME
862.ME
932.ME
927.ME
896.ME
947.ME
946.ME
942.ME
937.ME
926.ME
974.ME
802.ME
894.ME
984.ME
957.ME
952.ME
948.ME
983.ME
I am not sure how many domains you have lost in total, or the history behind each one, but this appears to be a very serious issue involving the potential loss of a significant amount of assets/money.

I am not sure NamePros can do much in this case, other than highlight what is going on.

This is probably going to require some type of legal action to remedy.

(NOT LEGAL ADVICE)

Brad
 
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I was billed $ 979.40 for the renewal of the domains that I don't own, it was renewed before the expiration, again no refund on my account.
Wow, Epik finding really creative ways to make money now.

You also should consider filing a complaint with ICANN -
https://www.icann.org/compliance/complaint

Under the "The renewal and/or redemption of a domain name" section

Brad
 
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I am not sure how many domains you have lost in total, or the history behind each one, but this appears to be a very serious issue involving the potential loss of a significant amount of assets/money.

I am not sure NamePros can do much in this case, other than highlight what is going on.

This is probably going to require some type of legal action to remedy.

(NOT LEGAL ADVICE)

Brad
The history is simple, they moved my domains to Epik account domains without my authorization, they did internally, Mr Rob Monster 5 days ago sent me an email saying that Mr. Bryan sold a big portfolio of domains without authorization of the Board.
 
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The history is simple, they moved my domains to Epik account domains without my authorization, they did internally, Mr Rob Monster 5 days ago sent me an email saying that Mr. Bryan sold a big portfolio of domains without authorization of the Board.
My main point was basically that there is only so much that can be done here.

Everyone is working together to highlight these issues. We don't want to see more victims.

At the same time your case involves such a large number of domains and potential value, that it probably is going to require some type of legal action.

I don't think Epik is going to just start caring, absent something compelling them to care.

(NOT LEGAL ADVICE)

Brad
 
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