alert The fund can't be withdrawal from Epik.com via Masterbucks wallet

[enamebroker]

It happened on 23rd Aug 2022 and this matter lasted almost one month without any process. Masterbucks.com declined my fund withdrawal and disabled the button of fund withdrawal. And I contacted Epik.com and got no further action even if Rob Monster got involved in it for two weeks. All the time I was told in email by management review.

What is wrong with Epik.com? Do you think it is normal to disable fund withdrawal? How can I get back my fund from Epik.com? Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[Derek Peterson]

Epik is well known for thumbing their nose at regulations and licensing, like with escrow for instance.

How about with insurance?

In April 2022, Epik was sent a C&D order and a fine was imposed by the Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner (OIC).

The parties listed were Epik Holdings Inc., Epik Inc., DNProtect, and Rob Monster.

Each party was listed as unauthorized or unlicensed to offer insurance.

A status conference was held on 1/3/2023.

A default judgement was ordered against Epik Holdings Inc., Epik Inc., and Rob Monster after they failed to appear.

This was settled only days ago, on 1/19/23 by a consent order.

(This information is publicly available on the Washington State OIC website - https://fortress.wa.gov/oic/consumertoolkit/Search.aspx?searchtype=ord)

Brad

So they got the fine reduced to $10K? I hope they pay in Masterbucks?

 

[Derek Peterson]

from breach, of the 1.5m logins attempts recorded at epik, 70k are admin override login into accounts. they login to customer accounts from ips in usa, india, germany, russia and more countries.

let me ask this question: is it ok to move a domain to another account 2 days after a domain expired? isn't there a grace period?

Wow! So they have access to login to customer accounts as customer? That is super sus! How many admin accounts were there? Do they have emails?

Are you able to see from the code how that expiration date is generated? Probably some API connected to registry? Is there a way to overwrite that date from admin, change it to show another date?

No, can't take domain after 2 days, there is a grace period.

 

[bmugford]

Outside potential oddball extensions, and some ccTLD, that is not something I have heard of with legacy extensions.

I am not sure what is required, but I will say that it is not reasonable for a registrar to just take the domain after it has been expired for (2) days. There is supposed to be some grace period.

Brad

FAQs for Registrants: Domain Name Renewals and Expiration​

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/domain-name-renewal-expiration-faqs-2018-12-07-en

Can I still get my domain name back if it's in the Redemption Grace Period?​

Domain names that are in the 30-day Redemption Grace Period can be redeemed (or renewed) before the end of the Grace Period. If you tried to redeem (or renew) your domain name that is in Redemption Grace Period, but were unable to do so, the registrar may be in breach of the Expired Registration Recovery Policy. Your registrar must provide three renewal notices and allow a domain in Redemption Grace Period to be redeemed (or renewed).

If you were not able to redeem (or renew) a domain name in Redemption Grace Period, please submit a Domain Renewal Complaint Form.

Also...

I paid for my renewal, but my domain name still hasn't been renewed, what can I do?​

If you paid a renewal fee to your registrar (or reseller) and your domain name was not renewed, the registrar may be in breach of the registration agreement that you entered into when the domain name was initially registered.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

let me ask this question: is it ok to move a domain to another account 2 days after a domain expired? isn't there a grace period?

It depends on where the domain was moved to.

If moved to epik owned account = NOT OK
if moved to another customer account = Potentially Ok

...

June 14th, 2020

I will review with engineering about simply allowing registrants to push expired domains without renewing.

@vitigo

June 15th, 2020

Done.
Now it's allowed registrants to push expired domains without renewing.

 

[tonyk2000]

Afaik registrars have no obligation to offer grace period at all (gtld domains). Some registrars delete expired domains on the next day after expiry. Which is why ICANN implemented redemption period: to let registrants "reedem" their deleted domain (for a fee). Anything else [grace period, expired domains resale, etc] is regulated by the registrar itself (and should of course be included into their public registration agreement). In current context, Epik did not delete expired domains but changed the ownership instead.

 

[Future Sensors]

@tonyk2000

https://icannwiki.org/Expired_Registration_Recovery_Policy

https://www.icann.org/en/announceme...red-registration-recovery-policy-28-2-2013-en

 

[tonyk2000]

https://icannwiki.org/Expired_Registration_Recovery_Policy

https://www.icann.org/en/announceme...red-registration-recovery-policy-28-2-2013-en

Yeah. The key is that ICANN does not prohibit resale of expired domains (without the domains entering redemption period at all).

 

[topdom]

For cctlds things can be different, but for most tlds, I think,
there is 15-30 day grace period, so full ownership continues, except whois/dns/management
(at epik it used to be 15 days long time ago, but they changed it to 30 days for most people or some people)
after grace period registrars can grab the domain or sell, for about 15 days; this is a period of shared ownership, the owner can renew as well, but there may be a fee, at dynadot it is 10 usd, at epik it is equal to redemption cost
(you may be able to avoid that cost by transferring, but registrars may cheat and block that option, or grab the domain while you are still discussing..).
and during redemption the owner gets back the full ownership without management, and can restore by paying redemption cost, but redemption domains are usually hidden, so you probably won't see them on your account.
And during pending delete, the registry gets full control.

 

[Michele Dinoia]

well it all depend the agreement you had with epik, long time ago I had 30 days of grace, then since 2016 I had 35 days, 1 month ago without notice they changed to 30 days, I lost lot of domains and they asked me around $ 39K to restore

 

[bmugford]

well it all depend the agreement you had with epik, long time ago I had 30 days of grace, then since 2016 I had 35 days, 1 month ago without notice they changed to 30 days, I lost lot of domains and they asked me around $ 39K to restore

Yes, but this is a separate agreement with the registrar.

Epik has not been honoring these other agreements that have been made such as paying customers, Patterns.com ownership, and other examples.

It doesn't seem like previous agreements mean anything to Epik at this point.

Brad

 

[Michele Dinoia]

Yes, but this is a separate agreement with the registrar.

Epik has not been honoring these other agreements that have been made such as paying customers, Patterns.com ownership, and other examples.

It doesn't seem like previous agreements mean anything to Epik at this point.

Brad

Brad, I know I was just explaining that the registrar has the ability to give the days they want for grace period, sorry for my English.

 

[bmugford]

Brad, I know I was just explaining that the registrar has the ability to give the days they want for grace period, sorry for my English.

No apologies needed. Your English is fine.

I was just basically making the point that it doesn't seem like Epik has much interest in honoring their existing agreements.

I hope we can get a more complete list of domains you are missing, then start digging into the history of them.

Brad

 

[GoKaizen]

Buy Domains For Life? | Epik Lifetime Domain Review​

This was posted 11 months ago.

 

[bmugford]

Buy Domains For Life? | Epik Lifetime Domain Review​

This was posted 11 months ago.

Epik's "forever" domain registrations.... I wonder if they are keeping up with payments on those.
There is no real upside, as they already got paid.

Epik gets $400 or whatever upfront for nothing but the promise of renewing the domain.
The registries like Verisign were not on board.

The problems of this scheme were pointed out by me, and others, since it was introduced.

Brad

 

[Derek Peterson]

Epik's "forever" domain registrations.... I wonder if they are keeping up with payments on those.
There is no real upside, as they already got paid.

Epik gets $400 or whatever upfront for nothing but the promise of renewing the domain.
The registries like Verisign were not on board.

The problems of this scheme were pointed out by me, and others, since it was introduced.

Brad

He only dreamed up that scam a couple years ago and the regs were for the max, 10 years, so not due for renewals yet, but to answer your question, no, those will not be getting renewed.

 

[Michele Dinoia]

No apologies needed. Your English is fine.

I was just basically making the point that it doesn't seem like Epik has much interest in honoring their existing agreements.

I hope we can get a more complete list of domains you are missing, then start digging into the history of them.

Brad

Yes, we are almost finished, I think by Monday will have the correct data, what I can tell you is that we are at thousands of domains find, we also find lot of domains that was on my account but they changed dns without to to tell anything to us, never received the email saying that the ns was updated, nothing, the domains was on their account at parking company, so before had the landing page of epik, they changed dns without to tell anything, they parked on their parking company and make revenue from my domains.

 

[Derek Peterson]

Yes, we are almost finished, I think by Monday will have the correct data, what I can tell you is that we are at thousands of domains find, we also find lot of domains that was on my account but they changed dns without to to tell anything to us, never received the email saying that the ns was updated, nothing, the domains was on their account at parking company, so before had the landing page of epik, they changed dns without to tell anything, they parked on their parking company and make revenue from my domains.

So in some cases the domains were still in your account and they changed DNS to point to some parking company? Is there a way to identify for sure who specifically owns that account on parking company? Epik account or maybe some epik admin was pointing things to his own account, since we now know that admins can log in to accounts and make edits as customer.

 

[bmugford]

He only dreamed up that scam a couple years ago and the regs were for the max, 10 years, so not due for renewals yet, but to answer your question, no, those will not be getting renewed.

Here are some of my comments about this "forever" scheme -

https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-promotion.1242873/

"Forever domains" are not a thing without the registry itself on board.

.COM domains can be renewed for a max of (10) years with the registry, where it actually matters.

You are paying $399 for the promise that Epik will pay for the renewal fee in perpetuity, regardless of price.

Obviously this could become unsustainable depending on what happens with pricing over time or Epik as a company long term.

Verisign, the actual .COM registry, is not a part of this agreement. There are no guarantees.

Just know what you are actually paying for.

Brad

The economics of the $399 Forever domain are as good as ever for two reasons: (1) .COM prices are going up and up, and (2) Nobody really knows what a dollar will be worth in 1 year let alone 10.

Yeah, you are basically making a good argument why the model is unsustainable without the registry on board.

Epik has no control over inflation, or .COM pricing...but they have all the potential liability.

The bottom line is you are paying for a promise from Epik to renew the domain, regardless of price, in perpetuity with no actual guarantees.

Brad

@Rob Monster How can you guarantee to us that Epik as company will be here forever and renew our domains every 10 years? What if Epik ever closes down for whatever reason let's say in 40 years when you are not around anymore? @bmugford has a very valid point that the registry is not involved in this deal, making the deal very uncertain in the long term!

There was also push back from others on NamePros, blogs, etc. about how this entire scheme was nonsense.

Brad

 

[Igor Gabrielan]

It seems that Epik employees have kleptomania, they probably even steal spoons in cafes. Moreover, this cannot only concern the leadership, from such a total theft, the rest of the employees, who, with innocent faces, scatter from a sinking pirate ship, should have known.

 

[Derek Peterson]

Here are some of my comments about this "forever" scheme -

https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-promotion.1242873/





There was also push back from others on NamePros, blogs, etc. about how this entire scheme was nonsense.

Brad

Yeah, we were mocking him hard on various other socials as well. The names they pick for their core scams just scream SCAM! Masterbucks! ForeverDomains! LOL. Rob Monster has to be the least self aware person of our century, save Sam Bankman-Fried.

 

[JB Lions]

Here are some of my comments about this "forever" scheme -

https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-promotion.1242873/





There was also push back from others on NamePros, blogs, etc. about how this entire scheme was nonsense.

Brad

Yep, crazy. I can't believe people fell for that. I bet even today people will try to debate the benefit of it.

Some of my past comments on this grift:

"But most domainers are not wanting to own their domains forever, the idea is to sell them.

So .com at forever pricing is $399, my renewals are $8.47. That's 47 years. You can just max it out and set to auto-renew, would be cheaper."

----------------

"Good for registrars, lot of money up front. But most domainers are trying to sell domains, not keep them forever. It's money better spent elsewhere, like other renewals, new acquisitions. Then it doesn't transfer over. You buy a forever registration at 1 registrar, it's stuck there."

-------------------
Now people that paid for that have their domains at some mess of a registrar.

 

[Igor Gabrielan]

Sufyan Alani closed his account on LinkedIn. Criminals hide like ostriches.

 

[Future Sensors]

There was also push back from others on NamePros, blogs, etc. about how this entire scheme was nonsense.

Also, let's analyze this multi-layered pearl in the thread you mentioned:

And what if that $399 domain name also came with a $10K warranty protection for lifetime, e.g. safeguarding against loss due to UDRP or domain theft? You know we launched this product with help of Bill Hartzer and some very capable developers: https://dnprotect.com/

 

[uaonline]

sorry for lack of update. working with some domain owners privately to verify data.

it looks like some domains are pushed manually to an account called "[email protected]" within grace period, by epik staff. then pushed out again to other accounts including other epik staff. if anyone has a domain they want to share publicly that has ownership problems or dispute, I can post results here.

in the meantime, any new musterbucks payments ?

 

[bmugford]

sorry for lack of update. working with some domain owners privately to verify data.

it looks like some domains are pushed manually to an account called "[email protected]" within grace period, by epik staff. then pushed out again to other accounts including other epik staff. if anyone has a domain they want to share publicly that has ownership problems or dispute, I can post results here.

in the meantime, any new musterbucks payments ?

I appreciate the work you and others are doing in trying to unravel this tangled web.

Brad