The Elephant in the Room--Chef Patrick and Oversee Breach of Customer Info

[Ms Domainer]

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I never know with this site

http://domaingang.com/editorial/there-will-be-no-post-about-chef-patrick/​

what's real or fake, but another site also confirms this.

If true, sad day, indeed.

Either way, because it's out there, Chef Patrick needs to address this issue ASAP to either clear his name or apologize.


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[DnEbook]

the issue of your rights to privacy and not to be harassed at your workplace see this to be a no so usual scandal , i think chefs reputation is indeed tarnished as a result of this , i wonder if morgan linton will do a post on it ???

 

[silentg]

Member on DNF brought this up. You might want to think twice before getting a domain privacy at Moniker.

The real question is why can a employee of a a company just look under the privacy protection...

 

[GF]

Marcia Lynn made a good comment on ChefPatrick.com:

"Patrick damaged the reputation of a well-respected and long-established registrar (Moniker) by violating whois privacy protocol. Many of us pay extra for that protection, yet he decided the rules and laws didn’t apply to him and he looked beneath the layer of protection for personal reasons, then contacted the employer of the registrant for personal gain."

Why do we pay Moniker for WHOIS Privacy if it can be breached by an employee?

 

[Michelle]

What he did imo was very very wrong but reading between the lines and the comments the name was registered by someone whom he knew with the possible motive to *get CP to do wrong* if this is the case .. yes he fell for it and whomever *they* are got what they wanted..

Still does not make anything right but what a shady mess

 

[carob]

Why do we pay Moniker for WHOIS Privacy if it can be breached by an employee?

There are known issues with Moniker Privacy failing, turning itself off and so on. It is about as private as hiding behind a sheet that is flapping in a high wind.

If a product does not do what it says, should you be offering it?

If you sell it and it fails, what action can the disappointed customer take against you?

 

[firefly]

I like Patrick.

That being said, some of the people that are defending him here need to ask themselves the question, would I feel as magnanimous and forgiving if it were someone they are not as familiar with and was/is seen (previously?) as a valued and trusted member of our community.

Trust can take a long time to build and unfortunately can be destroyed in an instant. The fact that this particular issue hinges on the issues of trust and ethics makes all the more sad to see.

GF...thanks for pointing out that comment from the blog. Unfortunately, she is spot on.

 

[dragtastic]

im so sick of this already

thats all I have been seeing on domaining - 1 post is enough - now every single domain blogger is going to keep beating a dead horse.

so who cares if someone registered CPsucks.com
he took it too personally and now everyone is talking about him - pretty smart in my opinoin.

 

[exsedo]

im so sick of this already

thats all I have been seeing on domaining - 1 post is enough - now every single domain blogger is going to keep beating a dead horse.

so who cares if someone registered CPsucks.com
he took it too personally and now everyone is talking about him - pretty smart in my opinoin.

I don't think anyone cares who regged it except CP.

Not a smart move IMO.
He could see increased traffic to his blog for a short while but after this dies down ?

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

Oversee/ Moniker operates a domain trade show named Domain Fest.

Prick Schwartz operates TRAFFIC.

So, they are competitors. Do you think that fact may explain some of Schwartz's maneuvering and animosity?

 

[firefly]

Oversee/ Moniker operates a domain trade show named Domain Fest.

Prick Schwartz operates TRAFFIC.

So, they are competitors. Do you think that fact may explain some of Schwartz's maneuvering and animosity?

Doesn't really matter who blew the whistle and for what reason, it is a mute point. It doesn't change the fact that what went on is/was an ethical breach by an individual. A very humbling one if you take a paid service like privacy seriously.

 

[Dave_Z]

If you sell it and it fails, what action can the disappointed customer take against you?

Take it up with the provider, report it to your local consumer-handling government agency, maybe even dispute your payment for it. Although none of those options can guarantee what you want, at least they're some things you can explore.

To think this started as, ironically, a private affair among Moniker, their rep and one of their clients that eventually became public because of Rick and that client. Not necessarily a wrong thing to do since it can help bring attention to a company to get their act together or else.

If one feels what Moniker has done (or not done) isn't enough, then one probably has a decision to make and deal with its results after.

 

[labrocca]

I'm not a fan of Mr. Schwartz but I'm gonna call this as I see it. I've read all the blog posts.

Chef Patrick should be fired from Oversee. He committed a serious breach of conduct and I don't fully buy his story. He admits only what can be proven but provides us a vague explanation of his motivations. I don't believe him that he wasn't aware of who the guys employer was. The fact that he started to have discussions with 3rd parties about PRIVATE data from Oversee if a real issue for me. How many people did he discuss this with?

One persons job is not worth the credibility of your company. Oversee you need to can this guy. Crying about his wife and kids and being human doesn't excuse his behavior. He's been in this business long enough to know he shouldn't have taken the course he did.

I'm sure if someone had done this to him he'd be furious and demanding action. I don't think the domainer community should be expecting anything less than his removal from your employ.

And I have nothing against CP. Never did. He seemed to be a decent guy. But this is how I see it. Can'em.

EDIT: On a side note. I've often criticized Rick and his own ego but I have to say a few positive things about the guy. One is that I think he's honest. I have yet to recall in all these years where I felt he wasn't. Yes he is a hype master (flowers.mobi). But that brings up my other positive statement. That he is a PR master. Reading the comments in his latest blog post including his it's easy to see how he became the Domain King. Not because of his brains but because he knows the politics involved in hype. Advice to anyone with a PR problem. Ask Rick what to do. And I honestly don't admire Rick. I just think in many cases he's doing the right thing. Now if he'd just lower TRAFFIC attendance prices.

 

[hawkeye]

Chef Patrick should be fired from Oversee.

I realize there's a lot of crap posting in those blogs, but if you did read all the blogs on this, you'd have (should have) noticed that he doesn't and hasn't worked at Oversee/Moniker for awhile.

 

[labrocca]

Yes I see that now at least in the replies of blog posts. Rick had 150 replies. Took a while to read them all. I've read Patricks explanation a few times. I could tear apart his blog post heavily. It's filled with some very questionable statements imho. He says one thing then a paragraph later seems to say another.

I just don't believe his motives were benign. He acted emotionally and with malicious but claims he was just hurt and investigating and meant no harm. BS.

 

[~ The 34 Year Buzz!!]

*
...
If true, sad day, indeed...

Big mistake: Trust is hard to earn and even harder to re-build.
On the other hand, everyone does make some mistakes, and people tend to forgive and forget. :wave:

 

[silentg]

He posted on his blog that he left Moniker on good terms. They probably gave him a going away party as well. this privacy breach is pretty serious. Now we know all employees got access to our personal information. .

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

Moniker / Oversee is still hiding behind Chef and letting him take all the heat.

 

[labrocca]

I'm not personally concerned that an employee has access to data. It's like saying NP mods shouldn't have access to my IP or email. If you're on staff at a company data shouldn't be expected to be hidden from them. That being said I don't expect my data to be shared with 3rd parties which I don't have any expectations of privacy with nor have I given permission to share the data.

I'm not going to fine tooth comb their privacy policy but I gotta believe Chef Patrick broke it.
http://www.moniker.com/privacypolicy.jsp

 

[hawkeye]

I'm not personally concerned that an employee has access to data. It's like saying NP mods shouldn't have access to my IP or email. ..

Uhh, no, not if you 'paid to keep it private'!!! That's like saying it's ok for every bank teller/employee to just go thru your bank records at their whim because they're an employee there!

Interesting peoples take on what is ok to do with what others have paid and trusted to be 'private'!!!

 

[Dave_Z]

Uhh, no, not if you 'paid to keep it private'!!! That's like saying it's ok for every bank teller/employee to just go thru your bank records at their whim because they're an employee there!

Interesting peoples take on what is ok to do with what others have paid and trusted to be 'private'!!!

When you purchase a registrar's privacy service, what exactly do you expect? If you also read your registrar's FAQs, legal prints, etc. regarding that privacy service, how much are aligned with those expectations?

At the very least, you expect the registrar not to show your domain's actual contact details (and maybe contact name) in WHOIS, right? Many registrars' prints detailing their WHOIS privacy service say they do that.

Now, do you expect a registrar's employee not to look at your domain's actual details in their internal tools for any reason whatsoever? Will there be an objection if, say, an employee looks it up to notify you for renewal, or if they receive a UDRP notice or...knock on wood...a court order, even if their legal prints indicate that?

I ask because sometimes it helps to keep one's expectations real. Otherwise, you can find yourself needlessly frustrated if you keep insisting on something others might not necessarily be willing to do.

But again, that depends what exactly you expect, and what the registrar's legal prints say.

 

[labrocca]

Uhh, no, not if you 'paid to keep it private'!!! That's like saying it's ok for every bank teller/employee to just go thru your bank records at their whim because they're an employee there!

You're taking it too far. It appears that Chef Patrick was working in a broker capacity. Which imho would probably give him whois information. Just like a bank teller. When I go to make a deposit they have to see my address and bank account number. I don't expect the janitor at the bank to know my data but I do believe Patrick's role did require him to have whois info access.

Patrick had a trust from Oversee. He broke that trust. There is no one to blame for that action other than him. Oversee could certainly have handled this better but we aren't privy to all the details. They have not made any public posting about the situation. Patricks own public statements imho speak enough about his actions that in my view shows his breach of trust and misdeeds.

 

[hawkeye]

...Now, do you expect a registrar's employee not to look at your domain's actual details in their internal tools for any reason whatsoever? Will there be an objection if, say, an employee looks it up to notify you for renewal, or if they receive a UDRP notice or...

If 'I' paid for privacy protect, yes 'I' would. But that's just me, I expect to get what I pay for.

They can contact me, through the normal privacy contact process, or thru my account info which that domain sits, and 'ask' me for such a needful arrangement. One of many purposes of an account rep. There is 'nothing' that important someone at a domain registry would need to breach policy to get personal info. Without a court order that is.

 

[labrocca]

If 'I' paid for privacy protect, yes 'I' would. But that's just me, I expect to get what I pay for

You pay for public whois privacy.

There is 'nothing' that important someone at a domain registry would need to breach policy to get personal info.

That's not true. They need that info if you lose the domain or access to the domain. What if the domain is stolen and the person puts whois privacy on it. I'd expect someone at Oversee to be able to view real data and investigate. That doesn't mean share their findings with third parties without a court order either. It means that there are plenty of instances where they may need to view real whois data.

 

[hawkeye]

Come on Labrocca, ...lets tit for tat! You know what I mean!

You pay for public whois privacy.

So they're open game for anyone not 'public'. Think of your bank example now.

That's not true. They need that info if you lose the domain or access to the domain. What if the domain is stolen and the person puts whois privacy on it. I'd expect someone at Oversee to be able to view real data and investigate.

You would have had to have communicated with them to let them know such, or they with you to determine if there is such issues.

That doesn't mean share their findings with third parties without a court order either. It means that there are plenty of instances where they may need to view real whois data.

And they can't/don't need to notify you of such, or for permission?

 

[Archangel]

This is becoming rather belligerent in here. I'm cleaning up the thread. Infractions will be given if ppl keep this up. You've been warned. It sounds like trolling and nothing more.

 

[carob]

Take it up with the provider, report it to your local consumer-handling government agency, maybe even dispute your payment for it. Although none of those options can guarantee what you want, at least they're some things you can explore.

True. But once the privacy has failed, it can never really be restored.

Moniker are'totally unsympathetic, yet they admit the existence of serious problems with their privacy. I would strongly discourage anyone from paying for or using Moniker privacy. If it is important to you, transfer the name somewhere else, and some places it is free.

I really do not think Moniker should offer this product at all, since it does not work reliably and they have shown no interest in fixing it, in spite of the issue being raised and some serious complaints.

It's also full of bugs and very confusing - you can't renew privacy together with a name, and sometimes it actually will not let you renew a privacy at all.

So if Moniker won't maintain a reasonable standard in its products or fix them, who knows what attitude they take to buggy staff.