discuss The Big Lie in the Domain Industry, Traffic Stats

[oldtimer]

I have been mainly using Sedo and Godaddy parking and sales landers for the past few months and was kind surprised by the number of unique visitors that I was getting considering the very low number of offers or lack thereof for the majority of my domains. Even the offer page views at Sedo were way up there for a lot of my domains while receiving no offers at all on them.

At Sedo I had about 450k unique visitors in the past 12 months on my portfolio of around 1000 domains and some of my domains had consistent offer page views over 50 per month without receiving any offers.

Godaddy doesn’t currently offer stats on sales landers, but they provide very inflated traffic stats on Godaddy Auctions.

Finally I decided to use Parking Crew for my domains and from what I can see the traffic stats for unique visitors and offer page views seem to be more realistic.

I like the fact that Parking Crew still allows me to use Afternic and Sedo sales landers which I like to switch around between occasionally.

My question is if Parking Crew can provide true stats why can’t Sedo and Godaddy and although most experienced domainers know that these stats are mostly from bots, but isn’t that going to be misleading to end users or even new domainers who rely on these false stats to make a domain purchase.

This situation can not be allowed to go on any longer.

We need to have true and accurate stats throughout the Domain Industry.

IMO

Thread Rules:

Everyone’s opinion is welcomed as long as it’s on topic and that things are kept on the professional, constructive, and respectful side. Constructive criticism for the purpose of pointing out the flaws in the domain Industry is allowed, but keep all negative, insulting, rude, and hateful comments out of this thread.

Disclaimer: I am not afflicted with or work for anyone in the Domain Industry.

 

[phaethon]

Maybe it's because stats don't matter sales wise
Hell, not even sales landers matter. Buyers just type in names on their registrar search engine..

 

[oldtimer]

Maybe it's because stats don't matter sales wise
Hell, not even sales landers matter. Buyers just type in names on their registrar search engine..

Stats matter sales wise as far as helping us evaluate and price our domains better,

And if a domain has been searched for at the registrar by a potential buyer can we get some data as to what domains they were interested in and if they took any additional steps that would show the level of their interest in the domain even if they didn't end up buying it like whether they asked for a price or wanted to talk to someone to get more info about the domain.

I would like to know:

- How did the potential buyer arrive at the domain, was it through sales landers or was it by doing a search at the registrar or some other method,

- How many potential buyers took the first step to search for the domain at the registrar or their affiliate network.

- How many potential buyers took the second step to inquire about the price,

- How many potential buyers took the third step to make an offer,

- How many potential buyers were turned off by the price and lost interest in taking any further steps,

- How many potential buyers engaged in negotiations with a broker, but couldn't meet the floor or reserve price,

- How many potential buyers that were interested in our domains ended up being diverted to buy one of the registrar's own domains (well they probably won't give us this info, but I am still curious to know).

The registrars like Godaddy have all this data that they use for evaluating and pricing their own domains and so it's only fair that we are provided with that info too about our Sales Landers so that we can manage and price our domains better.

IMO

 

[karmaco]

With bots and all that no stats are reliable and as mentioned have nothing to do with sales, a pending sale, if you should keep it, if you should buy it and on and on.

Most of my sales have come from low traffic. Others have high traffic for months on end and remain unsold. I don’t put alot if any weight on views/traffic.

 

[Laguna]

Same goes with reported sales,

One man's treasure is another man's garbage. Stats a

With bots and all that no stats are reliable and as mentioned have nothing to do with sales, a pending sale, if you should keep it, if you should buy it and on and on.

Most of my sales have come from low traffic. Others have high traffic for months on end and remain unsold. I don’t put alot if any weight on views/traffic.

I totally agree, same with reported sales stats. Most go unreported but when they do, they don't include afternic or Dan. So the stats are pretty irrelevant. Just my view

 

[mr-x]

At Sedo I had about 450k unique visitors in the past 12 months on my portfolio of around 1000 domains and some of my domains had consistent offer page views over 50 per month without receiving any offers. ...

Did you talk to your SEDO account rep about the stats? I spoke to mine several years ago and they were able to filter most of the bots. My traffic and ppc conversion rates align well.

 

[biggie]

But the major performance change is that confuses me.
Average RPM dropped 90% and stayed there...

Hi

the rpm probably was adjusted down, after review.
since the quality of the domains are low, then the advertisers, if any, won't pay much for clicks on those pages, for those names.
origination of traffic also plays key role in epc/rpm,
including whether it is dns traffic or redirected or "paid for traffic" to that name or link traffic from other websites.

imo...

 

[oldtimer]

What a bizarre, unwanted twist that you suddenly put me at the center of this.

Actually you need to think of this in a positive way as I consider you (along with a few others here) to be a knowledgeable person about the inner works of the domain Industry and who can be of great benefit to the community here if he decides to be a Force For Good.

IMO

 

[DomainNature]

I think to count real traffic you need to create a website, it's enough one page, add a plugin like Cookies accept and make it cover the whole page, so if the user is real human he will have to press the button I accept so he can view the website. I did this and was disappointed that my web is crawled by bots mostly, they even don't need to press any button of cookie accept, they can bypass that.
Of course humans can irritate that trick as it does with me, I hate when I view a website and some popup blocks the whole content, most of times I skip such websites, it's annoying.

Edit: so those bots are sent by big corporations to grab your content, design, ideas and words, then they use our content free of charge to top their own websites, I m tired to see how I do changes on my web and see it later implemented in their crap of websites. But they are not aware that now I hold top domains which they don't.

 

[oldtimer]

How about develop a site and get a reality check the tiniest bit of effort makes 1000% more traffic.
I don't feel there are any lies to unravel but feel free to post evidence.

We are not talking about just one domain or one site here,

Obviously we can develop a few of our domains to get a feel for the true traffic that they have through Google Analytics.

But here we are talking about millions of domains,

Not just mine, but everyone else's who uses a Sales Lander from the many different platforms in the Industry or who relies on the traffic stats provided to purchase a domain name through different marketplaces or auctions.

We need to think beyond just our own personal circumstances and consider what the domain Industry needs do to as a whole to serve the public good instead of protecting the interest of just a few companies that are profiting of off depriving us of the true and accurate stats. Just like the kind of data that the big registrars use themselves for evaluating their own domains, but that they purposely choose to withhold it from us or worse give us false or inflated stats.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Show one example and we will all analyze it.

Just look at the Sales lander for the domains at Sedo and the numbers provided for Traffic are not accurate,

Look at the domains at auction at Godaddy and the numbers provided for Traffic on most them are inflated.

And I guess many individuals feel free to artificially inflate the traffic on their domains and websites as they please which is a known fact in the domain Industry.

This is an Industry wide problem so rather than trying to blame anyone in specific perhaps the right solution would be to come up with some kind of a Certification System for Traffic kind of like the way we have security and trust certification for websites.

Disclaimer: I use both Godaddy and Sedo and I plan on keep using them. As I have already said my goal is not to destroy, but rather to reform the Industry so that we have a level playing field for everyone.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Oldtimer I think you are overanalyzing, if domaining is not working for you now, it wouldn't work even if you had the most accurate stats. It's all about quality domains, not stats.

True, but why not make things easier for domainers by giving them accurate stats that can help them manage their domains better.

And don't forget about some of the end users (not all) who are influenced in their purchase in part because of the traffic stats that they see being provided.

I am surprised at how much resistance there is here to wanting to make things right in this Industry.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Great that you have so much free time to start this kind of pointless threads...

You are a funny guy, I have to say...

As an activist I thought I was doing the community (and in some cases the Humanity) a service, but if it's going to cost me my life I guess I can stop now.

 

[phaethon]

Please stop..if domaining is not working for you, stats won't make any difference..

 

[oldtimer]

There is no link between domain traffic and sales.

Traffic is only a useful metric for parking revenue.

True and accurate traffic stats can show the level of interest in a domain name.

Such data can be used to better sort, trim, and price our domains so why should we be deprived of this info when Gosaddy themselves use traffic stats to manage their own portfolio better such as those domains that they hold throgh Namefind and sell through Afternic.

If it's good for them to have this data for managing their own domains then it should be good for us too to have access to true and accurate traffic stats at Afternic.

IMO

 

[biggie]

I hope I m not off topic.
I tried SEDO parking for first time, starting 20 days ago.
The first results was promising.
After 2 weeks with an average RPM at 0.75, the last 4 days a have a major drop at 0.05.
I have sent 2 emails in sedo's support asking for the reason, or if this is my fault somehow.
The first answer I received was a generic mail about the factors that affect traffic, like the target group or the geographic regions. Which is completely irrelevant because there is a 90% drop in exactly the same domains.
The second answer was about a corrector that happens every 24-48 hours that filters out invalid traffic, and could be a possible reason...
I don't know what should I have understand from these answers, but I clearly haven't.
I would appreciate an opinion

Hi

low amount of clicks and low epc, usually means the names are low quality for parking.
i'd be interested in knowing the actual domains, as only then, can a reason be seen.

imo...

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I mean a person or robot has to take an additional step to get to the "offer page" usually by clicking on the link at the bottom or top of the landing page that says "buy this domain" or "make an offer" or "contact the owner",

I have wondered at this. Yes, one way to get to the offer page is to search on Sedo and then click on that name from the list. But if the name uses a Sedo that goes directly to for sale, i.e. not using parking links, does it not also count those that simply enter the URL and end up at the lander? I also thought so.

Some time ago by in this NamePros post a representative from Sedo said that with parking advertising links when visited it went into the first traffic, and then if person clicked on the link this name is for sale it got also counted in the sales listing.

It is important to also take into account that the two numbers at Sedo are for different time periods, one resetting each month.

It does seem that numbers are higher at Sedo than at say Dan for the same name. I presume that is a due both to differences in marketplace searches and also in effectiveness excluding bot traffic.

I sometimes wonder how many visits are simply domain investors checking the status on a name. Some of my names in strong keywords but seldom known extensions get more traffic than much more valuable names in well known extensions. I wonder if it is simply domain investors wondering what is being done with the name.

Bob

 

[likemike]

Seeing accurate stats without all the bots on the web would be an impossibility since there are all sorts of ways to manipulate bots. The real value of the domain is in the eye of the prospective buyer.

 

[Future Sensors]

But we need to solve this problem at the Industry level not just for me.

Good luck.

 

[oldtimer]

if you call it a problem ! I believe we have problems in our life much important to solve than to solve traffic issues !!


.

That might be true specially considering what is going on in the World right now,

But we here in this forum are mostly domainers and the problems in the domain Industry can effect us perhaps even more than other things that are going on in the society and in the World.

You guys should stop protecting a flawed system and help fix it not just for our sake as domainers, but for the sake of all the people who are not familiar with this stuff, but are still being affected by these flaws.

In any Industry it's the duty for the people who are in the know to protect the general public.

If the people who are in the know such as @Future Sensors start protecting the system instead of the public then the Industry will deteriorate into a mafia like organization which then is going to require the Government to intervene and regulate it.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Actually it require government intervene and regulate , we individuals now cannot solve it .


.

What is going to determine whether what we have here is an Industry or not is whether we ourselves can come up with certain standards that can promote honest and fair play.

If we can't do that then we don't have an Industry we just have a gang of pirates.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

for a long time member to create a title that implicates parking platforms in a big lie, without posting any definitive proof, is shameful.

imo...

Hi Biggie,

Stop protecting a flawed system and try to make some constructive suggestions as to what could be done to fix these problems Industry wide.

It's not just parking, it's sales lander statistics and also domain and website traffic in general that needs to be made available in an accurate and standardized way.

Now let me ask you this, as a longtime member yourself what do you have against bringing some order and uniformity to the domain Industry and why do you want to discourage us to even discuss these problems.

You should already know that I am not one who gives in to the status quo of doing things so easily and neither should you.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Geo location is one of the tons of factors.
A parking company with servers in Germany are going to report different traffic numbers than another parking company with servers in California. The chances of this is very close to 100%. Because server location matters a lot from technical perspective. Anycast? It has its own problems, can never be the perfect solution.

Any traffic data you have will always be less than the actual traffic.

@oldtimer , any profit oriented company will try to max profit and you are looking for an industry wide solution. This is not rational. Because an industry consist of companies which compete each other. How do they compete if they reveal all of their experiences, all data the they collect for long years? That's why private companies have trade secrets and each company has its own way of doing the same business in the same industry. We, as domainers, have freedom of choice, we can choose any provider and dump the ones which don't work. That's the solution you are looking for. I would be careful when asking for an industry wide solution, as someone else may ask for the same thing in the industry you operate in. For instance a domain end user may come to this forum and ask for an industry wide solution to problems his/her faced with a few domainers who try to sell domains. The worse thing that end user may have proofs of bad faith and may ask for an industry wide regulation/solution. Even worse, that person may label all domainers as scammers. I don't defend any parking company or any company. It's not my business. But as a business person, I always develop empathy with any person/entity who does business. That's not to defend any company or any person. It's just empathy and being inclined to reasoning of why there should be no bad faith, scam, etc. I tend to think that the reason should be technical. I tend to be optimistic. I agree with @biggie, it's not good to make accusitions without definitive proofs. Even if you have definitive proofs, industry wide solutions usually work only for in favor of the governments, not for the public. For instance, banking and finance is probably the most regulated industry. Can you tell me any benefits of all those regulations, KYC requirements, etc to average Joe? Zero. All those regulations work for the governments only, they collect more tax and spend those tax funds to their own political carrers, not for the average Joe. So please think twice when you ask for an industry wide solution for any industry.

Thanks for the detailed response,

I understand that domain companies like all other businesses want to maximize their profits,

But can we agree that traffic stats should not be inflated or misrepresented in anyway across the whole Industry whether by companies or individuals.

And I am not asking for everyone to divulge their trade secrets, but can we agree that there is no rational reason for us to be left in the dark about what's going on with our sales landers.

Having true and accurate stats for the sales landers can help domainers immensely in adjusting their prices and sales strategies specially when visitors have to take an additional step to get to the offer or contact page.

IMO

 

[lock]

Write 2 pages of actual content that relate to your worst domain and it will likely out rank your best domain. Nothing happens without work. If you have so many actual searches broad vs exact you still have to rank that page to actually get the traffic. But that is the job as the buyer as the domainer you could prove it with a starter site and do the right work making you the webmaster but this makes you end user. Stick with domains.

 

[oldtimer]

Hi
i'm only trying to protect the integrity of the forum and assist in clarifying or contradicting statements made which could mislead others.
you start a thread title with a negative accusation and never provide any proof.

as a user of these platforms for almost 2 decades, i don't agree with your argument.
you can continue to discuss whatever you want, but i won't encourage those who mislead, misrepresent or just plain make-up shit, without proving proof or some type of evidence.

everybody that knows me, knows i don't pander to nobody and will question anything i see as questionable.
and this is one of those questionables.


Hi
no, we can't
you can't project your confusions on others and make it stick, as an industry wide problem
especially when we don't know what domains you own, how many names you sold, how many offers you have received, which get visitors and which don't or where your visitors, if any, come from, etc., etc.?


Hi
if you have a domain that doesn't get many visitors, do you lower price to entice buyers?

the answer is...
> too many factors to say, without knowing the actual name, how many other offers, does it earn any revenue, etc., etc.

so, point to that is, visitors alone has little to do with pricing, as it depends on many other factors.

if you can't prove that your stats are inaccurate, then why make the accusation?

on other hand, if you were getting offers, some sales, and earning some ppc $ too, then what?

imo...

You are entitled to have your own opinion about this which unfortunately differs from what I and many others have seen and known about the way that stats have been being handled and represented in the domain Industry for the past 20 years now.

So this is not a new problem that just sprang up, certain flaws within the industry have existed for many years now and I guarantee you that almost all Oldtimer domainers are aware of this fact and at one time or another have objected to the way that things were being done by certain companies and individuals. But If you want to protect the status quo of running things then that's your prerogative, but please provide a disclaimer after each one of your posts indicating that you don't have any affiliations, loyalties, or personal agenda and interest that is effecting your opinion and stance in this matter because whenever the problems with stats are brought up it seems like it's always the same people who go out of their way to try to convince us that these problems don't exists even though we all as domainers (and the public at large) are being affected by them on a daily basis.

Nevertheless I don't want to destroy the domain Industry or any company that's associated with it , but rather I want to reform it so that there is a level playing field for everyone.

IMO

 

[lock]

There is a lot of delusion here I have a lot of sites running stat scripts and tools and if it shows you have no traffic it isn't being mean or lowers value it just doesn't prove much by parking a name with no marketing backlinks and expect just because it really is a great type in it is going to rank with parking no content.