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shop.app ranking above shop.com according to Alexa

Labeled as new gtlds in Domain Industry News, started by Alessandro Couteau, Apr 9, 2021

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  1. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Cool story.

    All tech stocks are up from a year ago. I don't think it has that much to do with the domain.

    1:23 time on site is pretty awful for a shopping site, vs. 3:54 for Shop.com.

    As a domain investor, let me know when all the new gTLD combined put up even a fraction of .COM sales.

    In the last year (from NameBio).

    .COM -

    118,800 Total sales
    $108,500,000 Sales volume

    All new gTLD combined -

    1,251 Total sales
    $2,300,000.

    Don't give me the line about unreported sales being higher in new gTLD. All extensions have unreported sales. Low reported sales = low actual sales.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  2. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    A.com does not exist. There are only (3) total L.com that exist.
    X.com, Q.com, and Z.com.

    Brad
     
  3. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    Brad

    You’re correct ^ Z.com (GMO) Q.com (CenturyLink) and X.com (Elon Musk) are the only ones that are known to the public

    But the other letters actually do exist, they just are not for sale ...

    Verisign (NASDAQ:VRSN), the registry for .com, isn’t allowed to allocate any single letter .com domain names. Three .com domains were registered before this restriction though: q.com, x.com and z.com

    Verisign has written ICANN in regards to allowing them to allocate ownership of O.com and ICANN has been pondering the idea for a couple years now ^ if ICANN agrees it will be the 4th single letter .com to go on sale ... and Overstock would more then likely be the buyer ... if that happens, then shortly over time many other L.com would be released as well ^ but in short, they do exist ... Amazon even has the TM for A.com if it ever does become “for sale”

    https://domainnamewire.com/2011/03/...ains-have-been-gamed-at-the-trademark-office/

    Old article but interesting read nonetheless ^
     
  4. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    I agree the GTLD market is still untapped by investors and endusers alike albeit a lot of money is being poured into ownership rights for said extensions ^ we don’t have a massive adoption quite yet

    I believe if more TLD .com investors realized the potential and value of strong keyword combinations for the GTLDs ^ It could prove to be a valuable prospect not for just GTLD investors but TLD .com investors as well ^ as more consumers would be exposed to the investment factor in domains, if investors continued to make investments in the industry or if we had a large sale (seven figures +) for a GTLD ^

    And as GTLDs and TLDs showed their value, this would open a new market to advertise and sell prime GTLDs & TLDs to endusers AS domains are investments ...

    Look at NFT paintings for example, it was huge news when Beeples painting sold for $69M ^ Now they got Mark Cuban on board and the one percenters supporting their market ^ as domain investors we have never had that kind of exposure and quite frankly, it’s disappointing that domains are barely recognized as investments to the average consumer let alone endusers

    Maybe if .com investors and GTLD investors started to think alike and put their pride to the side, we could see this new market become a reality
     
  5. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The problem is until there is a primary market, AKA vast end user usage, there really can't be much of a secondary market.

    It has been 7 years now and the adoption has been very slow.

    If you can make money with new gTLD, more power to you. To me it is basically swimming upstream.

    Brad
     
  6. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    Well it is slow, however I do see adoption happening, To be fair it was the same with the TLD .com ... until investors put money up, the market was barely seen as valuable to endusers ... endusers for .com did not put up a $1M until 10 years in the market

    As far as GTLDs go, I sold sicily.properties to an enduser for $1,200 - bought the name 5 years ago for $19.95 ... renewal was standard, non premium ... calculate the ROI ... ^ given that example ^ I believe exact match keywords can be a valuable investment, but one that has yet to be fully recognized for its potential as such

    I sold mortgage.loans for $400K on a payment plan to Blake Janover whom purchased home.loans for $500K from Donuts ... However when the pandemic hit, Blake could not afford to keep paying us and our agreement was cancelled and the name was returned back to us ... we made a good deal of money hence the six figure appraisal now on Estibot

    I have had many offers on the GTLDs but nothing I would sell at; as I said, I believe the market is greatly undervalued - at Monte Cahns ROTD auction primarily filled with TLD .com investors, I was offered $25K for mortgage.loans and $17,500 for easy.credit ... my reserve on easy.credit was only $25K

    Had it been 3 years ago and we were not in a pandemic, I believe the results would have been significantly better / again I think another factor in this equation is a lack of interest from endusers and a lack of interest from TLD .com investors to support the GTLDs and stick to old ways because TLD .com investors believe on one hand that if one market grows, somehow or another it will undermine their own respective investment, the .com ... similar scenario to banks bashing on crypto until they started investing in it themselves and the adoption of crypto has grown 100 fold ... and with said adoption the banks and crypto’s success had continued to grow
     

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  7. jim h

    jim h Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    . App has great potential, especially for popular words and short words.But I think it's slow move.
    In fact, many. app were sold at high prices, but due to confidentiality agreements, many of them have not been reported by anyone.I learned about those deals from different sources, those deals really exist whether you like or not.
    I got map.app , and I have more .coms.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  8. lock

    lock DomainUsed.com VIP

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    All depends on hard work why would you own the dot com and just expect the business.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  9. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The renewal for shop.app is £1440 GBP (~$2,006 USD) per year
     
  10. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP

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    I hope all those “premium” garbage, i mean renewal; remain vacant. Horrible biz plan, and God bless those willing to pay that AAV wow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  11. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    Renewal price is irrelevant to ranking. There is no point to discuss renewal prices in this thread.
     
  12. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP

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    Honestly, i even question highest ngtld sales,
    if it’s not a shopify, err Shop.app, or something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  13. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    Oh but you don’t question Lasvegas.com being financed for $90M until 2040 ? ;)

    https://www.thedomains.com/2015/11/...gas-com-in-2005-for-up-to-90-million-dollars/

    There will always be instances where mankind attempts to artificially manipulate an investment and when they are caught, they should be labeled as such, fraudsters

    But that does not give the right to label the market as a fraud in its entirety ... it’s a preposterous statement
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  14. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's relevant because the original post was about investing in gTLD domains as well as the success of gTLDs as a whole based on one domain's success.
    I might as well give my 2 cents as I'm here now... I remain unconconvinced of the case for gTLDs based on the success of a single example of one domain that has been promoted by a huge corporation.

    The fact its a premium name here is a factor in it's success because it needs someone who can afford the upkeep - unlike the main TLDs.

    It's also arguably the best domain on the extension, which also leaves little chance of hope for others than if it had been something else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  15. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    I think you misunderstand what the original post mentioned. Its purpose is to oppose to the general opinions of .com investors that end users must use .com, and end users who adopt ngTLDs never succeed. It tries to point out that we should not be biased, and should invest in good domains that end users may be interested in, regardless of gTLDs. Renewal price is totally irrelevant in defining good domains and Alexa ranking. No matter renewal price is $10 or $2k, it does not affect domain quality (i.e. intrinsic value) and Alexa ranking.
     
  16. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I haven't said that it affects the Alexa rank of shop.app, unless I'm missing something?

    The renewal price of this domain doesn't affect the Alexa rank for shop.app, but it affects the success of the gTLDs as a whole.

    The conclusion of the original post is as follows:

    If you think that the yearly upkeep of domains doesn't affect their chances of success then we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Here's my rationale: Having to renew domains at a high price every year decreases the chance of domains in the extension succeeding. To me, the web (and business in general) is about experimentation. Experimentation is the key to success because some projects succeed but most of them fail. To me the pricing isn't conducive to fostering experimentation, so I believe that it decreases the chances of more names being used and them being a success.

    Anyway, it's not like we need more reasons not to invest in gTLDs, but I would find a more compelling reason not to invest in them to be that the number of registered gTLDs has dropped by approx 7 million since the start of the year (that's 21% of the total!!!):
    upload_2021-4-15_11-8-39.png

    My conclusion is that I'm not surprised that THAT company with THAT domain has made a success out of it. They are a company that foster experimentation in commerce in a big way, they offer great value to lots of people with a very low barrier to entry. gTLDs could learn from Shopify's practices in a big way...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  17. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    1. Can you distinguish between gTLDs and ngTLDs?

    2. Success of the ngTLDs as a whole is not the discussion point in the original post. The original post just mentioned to invest in good domains, regardless of gTLDs. Its key message is that we should not be biased when investing. Renewal price is completely irrelevant in this matter.

    3. Your post is already completely off topic. The OP mentioned the success in terms of Alexa ranking (i.e. use by end users), not in terms of the number of registered ngTLDs. I agree that renewal price affects number of registrations, but number of registrations is not the discussion point in this thread. You can open a new thread to discuss how renewal price affects number of registrations, if you want. What's more, it is inappropriate to think ngTLDs as a whole because there are many extensions categorized as ngTLDs. Just like no one thinks ccTLDs as a whole. When you see ngTLDs separately, you will find there are some ngTLDs having growing number of registrations.
     
  18. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    :ROFL::xf.laugh:

    Honestly your responses are moronic. The OP says that we should all change our opinions and invest in NEW gTLDs based on these miraculous findings of one domain spuriously having a better Alexa rank than shop.com. It's not off topic to mention reasons why the NEW gTLDs are not attractive to invest in. The OP compared .COM investors to NEW gTLD investors.

    Stop being a pedant
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  19. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    Frankly speaking, your posts are nonsense and illogical.

    1. If you think the shop(.app) case is an exception, you should be against the OP by showing some examples of .com domains that rank better than their exactly matching ngTLD domains, or asking him to show more examples, instead of saying unrelated stuffs like renewal prices and number of registrations. It shows you are nonsense. Also, your reasons are so weak that cannot convince ngTLD investors, honestly, especially when there are successful ngTLD investors and the average selling price of ngTLDs are higher than that of .com domains according to Namebio.

    2. Thinking ngTLDs as a whole shows you are illogical. Each ngTLD has its own renewal prices, target users and success levels. Thinking them as a whole and rejecting them all is a silly action. It is similar to a situation that the exam result of a class of students worsens and so all students are punished, without considering that there are some students who get good exam results.

    Stop posting nonsense and illogical stuffs.
     
  20. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    I believe your username says everything I need to know about you ... let me say something before I continue, it is impossible to think w/ a clear mind when you are mad,

    This post was created to show that GTLDs can compete online to the same likes of their counterparts, despite being a GTLD, and yes you may already be aware of that, however many new domain investors and consumers are not ... This has led to the conclusion of .com investors informing consumers that .com is better, and why, because the .com that has been printed and marketed all over the past 20 years or is it because it has people like you that are not willing to put their pride to the side ... banks said the same thing about crypto, their argument though was “scams” and now it’s the effects on the environment ... there will always be an argument, crypto is valuable industry, banks are a valuable industry, they are similar, but crypto directly undermines the banking system, it attacks the monetary system as a whole, Jamie Dimon himself in an interview on Wallstreet said banks were fearful of new fin-tech - that the competition was very real, and it should be ^ the same should be said for Verisign and ICANN whom have run a monopoly out of the internet the past 20 years

    The truth be told though, it does not really matter, at 100,000 domains registered every single day on average, there is nothing I really need to say, you can continue to invest only in .com domains up until the point the Chinese are buying 8 letter .com domains “don’t forget the chips”

    My argument is for those who want to be ahead of the game 10-15 years down the road, my argument is for investors wether .com or GTLD investors should invest in only good domains - does not matter the extension, just to invest in good domains, period ... we can argue renewal prices, however I will argue that compared to TLD single keyword .com domains and LL.com domains and NN.com domains and certain LLLL.com domains ... the renewal prices on GTLDs are comparatively much more fair especially for certain extensions with matching keyword combinations

    I co own the following examples

    https://easy.credit - renewal - $220 / annually

    https://e.credit - renewal - $220 / annually

    https://mortgage.loans - renewal - $440 / annually

    I really do not believe these renewals are unfair for the quality they possess,

    at the same time I do agree with you in the simple fact, more companies should follow the same path of Shopify with their example of https://shop.app ... there are other examples by the way Mad; I simply wanted to point out this one, given there is irrefutable evidence of the transaction and the name in the ownership of Shopify

    For your own interest you should look at https://casino.online versus https://casinoonline.com or https://home.loans versus https://homeloans.com (WF)

    That leads me to something else ^ Fortune 500 companies have a bad habit of buying premium domains, not using them, in fact they let them collect dust ... It’s a shame and you can pretty much be rest assured that name will not sell in your lifetime unless someone buys out Wells Fargo, they aren’t the only ones, look at who owns the majority of LL.com domains or LLL.com domains ... how long can the liquid domain .com market last for investors especially when China is being scrutinized by their own government for using domains to launder money ... Mind you the Chinese are ahead of you, since they own more GTLDs then anyone, Alibaba has one of the largest GTLD portfolio’s, kind of interesting if you ask me
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  21. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I don't know what triggered you, but you had an axe to grind from the moment that I answered the question that someone asked in this thread about the cost of renewal.

    Why would we be talking about it if it wasn't an exception?

    When you say exactly matching what do you mean? Like google.com vs google.app?

    Because if so, then there's really is no need for me to do that, because I suspect that almost all .COMs that are in the Alexa top 1 million rank better than all of their NEW gTLD counterparts given that they are in the top list at all. This is further backed up by the fact that not a single NEW GTLD features in the top 20 extensions and they account for nearly 800k of the total:

    upload_2021-4-15_16-48-28.png

    Source: https://dofo.com/blog/top-websites-domain-names/ - 24th June 2020

    I haven't tried to convince anyone of anything other than that I don't personally want to invest in them and that I believe that high yearly renewal prices aren't good for the organic growth of the extensions. That's not illogical to me.
    That doesn't mean much when the number of sales per month are in the hundreds:
    upload_2021-4-15_17-22-39.png

    Compared to .COM in the 10s of thousands....

    upload_2021-4-15_17-23-4.png

    Source: Namebio

    No it's more like the class are students that did badly at school and then continue to do badly throughout their life continue to do worse in life compared to the students that improve over time. That's life I'm afraid.

    Anyway, please don't go off topic, classes of students are completely irrelevant in this matter the OP said Alexa rank at least once!

    (y)
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  22. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    Mad read my post to you above ^

    I never stated that a GTLD will rank higher to the .com because it is a GTLD ... I stated something that was interesting to me, that being the GTLD counterpart competing with the TLD and ranking higher directly proving something most of us already knew, we just never spoke about ... I sent you further examples of comparing counterparts of .com versus GTLDs

    And I must correct you in saying your numbers are irrelevant, here I am discussing GTLDs that have been around really in the light the past 7 years, where as you’re discussing .com which has been around for the past 20 years ... it’s not surprising to anyone that .com is the main TLD, it’s almost insulting that you believe we aren’t already aware of that ... I will also add that all the big domain companies are in bed together, .com is their largest investment ^ it stands to reason they will support .com domains and .com domain investors to the fullest degree but they will not support GTLD investors, it’s a joke ...

    How is that SEDO will allow only “registry GTLD owners” to sell their GTLD names at their auctions, however they will not allow GTLD investors to sell their own “premium” names at their grand auction ? It’s insulting

    I will say it once more so you can read it again

    INVEST IN GOOD DOMAINS WETHER THEY ARE .COM OR GTLDS -

    And I will stand by that to the fullest degree ^ as I mentioned, you can keep investing in ONLY .com and stand laughing like Terry Semel who was prideful in declining to buy out all of Google for $1M in 1998 - well look at where they are now, but they probably would not have gotten there with Terry in charge
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  23. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Apologies, my post was a direct response to @henrypcyeung and not directed at you. Your post certainly contains some valid and reasoned arguments, thanks for taking the time to detail them.

    Don't worry I am not mad. I do see why one would want to invest in domains that they feel are worth the yearly upkeep, but my general issue is that they have premium prices charged yearly and that this could prevent organic growth from occurring that .COM and others have enjoyed over the years.

    I do also concede that they are difficult to compare and the future is not predictable, it isn't clear cut and you do need to have vision. Unfortunately I feel that a lot of that vision is locked up by the registry and their pesky premium renewal fees and may never be realised because the successes in the extensions are so few and far between - hence why we're talking about shop.app now.

    casino.online has an alexa rank of 1,696,263 and home.loans 1,367,409. They're not exactly gleaming examples :xf.frown:.

    I only just saw this! How rude. I'll let you off this once though I suppose...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  24. Alessandro Couteau

    Alessandro Couteau Top Contributor VIP

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    I appreciate you acknowledging the valuable information in this post, it maybe the first time I’ve witnessed a PRO .com investor agree with any small thing I said, and that is what I was aiming for >>> if anyone can garner anything from this post, It should be -

    wether you’re a die hard .com investor or a GTLD investor - we are people, we are in the same industry, we should support each other, not knock down each other and we should not pretend to be cognizant about the industry, it is always changing, always adapting, the Internet has been revolutionary and we must be blessed or lucky to be the ones with a piece of the pie ^ we may have different flavors of pie, (me with my peach pie) (you with your apple pie), it’s not a bad idea to try new flavors every once and a while, otherwise we become close minded

    As for the renewal prices, as much as we preach to end users that domains are one of the most valuable assets in their business, it should be an investment on their part, not ridiculous pricing, but I don’t consider $200 much less $400 annually ridiculous ... everyone has a different way of thinking though ^ .io is through the roof, because it’s cheap,

    I will say something else I’ve noticed, since crypto is all about decentralization and not being attacked by a governments laws, popular crypto currencies are running on different extensions opposed to the .com

    https://bitcoin.org

    https://ethereum.org

    https://tron.network

    As for the other examples I shared w/ you - https://casino.online and https://home.loans - these Alexa rank results of 1M are not surprising, being that they are somewhat small business’ ^ compared to the .com though, casinoonline.com is at 2M and homeloans.com is not even ranking, because Wells Fargo isn’t using the name
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  25. Future Sensors

    Future Sensors 78% of human domainers will be replaced by robots Gold Account

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    At least @MadAboutDomains is now saying "New gTLD", which is positive for the industry as a whole :xf.wink:

    To @Alessandro Couteau - a .com domain is a gTLD as well. Com was in fact one of the first gTLDs. So you can't just say ".com investor or a GTLD investor".

    Enjoying this thread.
     

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