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information Selling to EU buyers? Beware - The new EU OSS/IOSS VAT law affects you (and is already in effect)

Dynadot

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Domain sellers, here comes trouble, I'm afraid:

Starting from the 1'st of July this year, the new EU OSS/IOSS VAT regulation came into effect.

Many sellers here probably have no clue of this.

Also the new legislation can be so cumbersome, that many sellers might find themselves unable to sell to EU buyers anymore. The accounting issues can be quite staggering. (Edit: at our company we already decided we can't sell to EU buyers anymore, at least for now).

Start by reading here: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en

Some very basic notes:

- If you sell to any EU country (except your own if you're EU based), you're doing distance selling. It doesn't matter whether you sell needles, elephants, services or domains. You have to collect and pay VAT accordingly. Edit: Furthermore domains are digital goods so they are definitely of interest for the lawmaker.

- All taxable buyers in the EU are to be charged with VAT. This includes all individuals, and companies without an valid EU VAT code. Note, most buyers are individuals.

- If you sell more than EUR 10K of goods in a year, you're obligated to collect VAT and disperse the VAT to the corresponding country (where the buyer lives).

- There are only two ways of doing this. Either register for VAT in each country (close impossible) or sign up for the One Stop Shop (OSS) that does this. You will need to have an EUR bank account that will be used to pay that VAT that will be then dispersed automatically to all member countries depending on where the buyer resides. The latter is what you do.

Edit: Additional note, If you sell in US dollars, or any other currency than euros, you will lose money % when converting to those euros and also by the transfers.

- The accounting is a huge problem. You will have to keep track of all sales and deduct VAT already paid (for example to Sedo), and pay the difference while keeping separated amounts for each country.

- Also by the law you need 2 different proof methods as to where the buyer resides (country). Unfortunately with domain platforms you only have 1 proof - what the platform tells you. So in effect, unless they change their systems, you can't - and you're already illegal by the letter of the law. An example of such second proof would be the buyer IP for example that you get through a geolocation service.

Edit: This location proof information has to be stored for years with accuracy and presented to authorities whenever required, for verification.

- There is no minimal value for this. Any sale has to follow VAT laws.

- Domain platforms are not obligated to apply for OSS themselves. Therefore they won't help.

My own mitigation of the problem:

- Despite having a company with several employees, this headache is more than we can handle right now. SO WE HAVE DECIDED TO STOP SELLING TO EU BUYERS ALTOGETHER.

- My interpretation (so far) is that the only network that can still be used is Afternic. Unlike other platforms, Afternic actually resells your domain further as you are not provided with buyer details but just the amount. That's good.

( Edit: Also Afternic often ups the price via their resellers or GoDaddy Auctions, so in effect they are a reseller - which means any Afternic sales can continue and are not affected by this law. Again this is my interpretation so far.)

- We are stopping using Dan.com and redirecting all lander traffic to Afternic due to this.

- Our Sedo listings will be Make Offer only. If the buyer is a taxable person from an EU country, unfortunately we will not be able to entertain the sale to them anymore.

This might change but preparing and getting ready for this extra headache is going to take time. We have a good accountant but he's already in deep into getting this untangled. Unsure if it is worth the hassle. Domain accounting for thousands of names like we do is a huge challenge already.

Please inform yourself, be aware, get compliant and stay within the law to avoid the nasty things.

Important note: Don't fool yourself that by selling as an individual you're protected from this. You're not. If you are selling domains on a regular basis, you're a business - regardless of being incorporated or not already. Therefore, the law applies to you as well.

Final note: Get legal and accounting advice as I'm just an user here and not an expert in either. So the above still needs to be taken with a grain of salt - it is what I understood so far though. Good luck.
 
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NameFilter.com

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- Our Sedo listings will be Make Offer only. If the buyer is a taxable person from an EU country, unfortunately we will not be able to entertain the sale to them anymore.

I haven't used Sedo in a long time. Does Sedo provide information (location and VAT status) to the seller about the person making the offer, or only when a deal has been reached?
 
Let me tell you one more thing about law. "YOUR NAME" (all caps) and "Your Name" (lower case) are two totally different things. Ever heard of the "straw-man"? The one in capitals is your straw-man... the fictitious company registered for you upon your birth, the one which is used by this insidious system to tax you, fine you, and control you. Use "Your Name" as a living man/woman and even the tax office in your own country has no jurisdiction over you. This rabbit hole goes far deeper than most people could comprehend and believe.

This is sovereign citizen nonsense which has been thoroughly debunked.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

The IRS doesn't give a crap how you list your name, they still want their fair share of tax revenue.

They don't accept "Sorry, I don't owe taxes" as a legit exemption.

This is what happens when you try this crap in a real court -
 
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robs01

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This is sovereign citizen nonsense which has been thoroughly debunked.

Must have been the same fact checkers that work for the MSM. Very reliable and trustworthy.
I am a member of a local common law assembly in Australia and I see first hand some of the incredible stuff people are doing with the true and highest laws of the land. They are overturning unlawful fines and government/police actions. Basically it is one big slap in the face for the unlawful statutory system, and that's why there is a whole series of propaganda put out which allegedly debunks all of it - this truth is so powerful it can bring this insidious criminal system to the ground when enough people become aware of it. Of course, there are some losses too whereby the process was not understood/followed well enough and/or the statutory system gives a lot of thuggery.

The IRS doesn't give a crap how you list your name

Really? Look at all your government correspondence: your name is ALWAYS in upper case letters. Why do you think that is? It is not an accident or random happening - YOUR NAME is a corporation. May I suggest to you that you look up the definition of a "person" in a proper law dictionary... it is not what you think it is. This is just one example of the legal trickery that has been foisted upon the world. The entire system is based on contract law. I also suggest you look up a book (or two?) titled "Hidden Contracts" or "Invisible Contracts".

This is what happens when you try this crap in a real court

He must have done it wrong.
Look here to see how it's done right:

cirnow com au/what-to-say-when-a-judge-leaves-the-court /

It's a really tricky skill, even for the most astute of people, to educate themselves to the point that they realize that everything they think they know/knew could be completely wrong. That's when the real awakening starts to happen.

Edit: another great article relevant for you guys/gals in the USA. The same site as above but with /how-the-americans-won-independence-from-the-brits/ on the end. Knowledge really IS power, which is why they work so hard to keep it from us.
 
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CraigD

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Must have been the same fact checkers that work for the MSM. Very reliable and trustworthy.
I am a member of a local common law assembly in Australia and I see first hand some of the incredible stuff people are doing with the true and highest laws of the land. They are overturning unlawful fines and government/police actions. Basically it is one big slap in the face for the unlawful statutory system, and that's why there is a whole series of propaganda put out which allegedly debunks all of it - this truth is so powerful it can bring this insidious criminal system to the ground when enough people become aware of it. Of course, there are some losses too whereby the process was not understood/followed well enough and/or the statutory system gives a lot of thuggery.

...
He must have done it wrong.
Look here to see how it's done right:

cirnow com au/what-to-say-when-a-judge-leaves-the-court /

It's a really tricky skill, even for the most astute of people, to educate themselves to the point that they realize that everything they think they know/knew could be completely wrong. That's when the real awakening starts to happen.

I don't usually get involved in political discussions here, but...

This sovereign citizen movement has not 'overturned' any laws in Australia. The cases have been tried at every level and have been thrown out. (see article below).

Here's an interesting article by a recently retired magistrate who says there is zero legal basis for sovereign citizens in Australia. He actually spent his earlier years as a lawyer trying to make the argument that First Nations people weren't subject to the Aussie criminal law system, so I think he has a fair amount of experience in this field.

https://www.echo.net.au/2021/07/sov...l-status-in-australia-says-former-magistrate/
 
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hal

Established Member
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Fuck the EU and their unelected bureaucrats. The EU is slowly destroying all the counties under its autocracy. Thank god the UK was smart enough to escape the tyranny of the EU.

Mate, I hate to break it to you but... the UK has very similar VAT rules to the EU when it comes to sellers outside the UK selling to the UK.
 
biix