.tv Question about GEO.TV (This really applies to any .TV site)

[localexperts]

I know a little something about the challenges of running a local-based internet business. If you do your research, many of my competitors (imandi.com, handshake.com, efrenzy.com, servicelane.tv, etc) tried and failed in the late 90s. Even Respond.com was a failure, since the company known today as Respond.com is the old netgenShopper.com team and the Palo Alto office of Respond was closed down.

So I want to start a conceptual discussion. Just a discussion on the challenges I faced when building Respond in the local search space.

So if you plan on launching a GEO TV (or any internet domain) you need two criticial elements to make money. You need eyeballs and you need advertisers.

Let discuss Eyeballs.

So Associated Cities has a REAL advantage in this area. They get type in traffic. Its free traffic. They don't have to concentate on buyer acquisition deals like the $8M dollar deal I had to do with Lycos to get placement all over Lycos's network of sites

http://pcworld.about.com/news/Jan022001id37341.htm?terms=merchant+new

So if you operate a GEO TV or a TV site, how are you going to get eyeballs? Without eyeballs, no one will watch the videos. Advertisers won't advertise. And you won't make money.

Associated Cities doesn't have to worry as much about eyeballs. They can concentrate most of their energy on advertiser acquisition. That removes 50% of the problem....an unfair advantage.

This is the #1 reason why internet companies fail. That don't get a criticial mass of eyeballs. We had the advantange of paying AOL, Excite, Lycos, IWon and the others millions of dollars for DEEP integration. I had a BD team to get netgen/Respond a deal with Verizon Superpages and Quest Dex.

Imandi.com had Paul Allen and DEEP integration of large sites and they couldn't get enough consumer eyeballs. In fact, I remember playing pool one night at a netgenShopper function and someone pointing to the TV. Imandi had a commercial of maids wrestling playing on CNN. They went out with a large TV ($20M) ad blitz and still couldn't get enough consumer eyeballs to make it work. They paid other site owners $5 for any local user that signed up with Imandi and couldn't critical mass. My BD ran up to me going, "George they are going to kill us". Guess I was smart (or stupid), I told them not to worry.

http://www.users.uswest.net/~pdshaffer1/

http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=166331

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-27677441_ITM

TO THE QUESTION?

So, how can you get eyeballs to your great looking launched .TV site without having to wait years for type in traffic to catch up to .COM or .NET?

For the GEO TV owners, how are you going to get eyeballs in MainStreet USA, when you might not live in MainStreet USA?

Before Coke wants to advertise on your site, you better have an answer to this question........

 

[smashfactory]

For the GEO TV owners, how are you going to get eyeballs in MainStreet USA, when you might not live in MainStreet USA?


i guess there is no reason to go there, if i dont live there, or i am not going there-
if it is not some major attraction place, like orlando- then i guess all you have to work with, it the locals.

so, i am thinking, if you have say, a town- you work the town. there is a site here, when i lived in frederick (here in md) we used frederick.com all the time-

you get with store owners, restaurant owners, chamber of commerce... they would give a business a sign - Listed on Frederick.com- to hang outside their stores when they lited with frederick.com- you saw them all over town.

 

[localexperts]

I agree with Smash, if you are local to the market (using the grassroots) tactics; that will work.

My son launched dannyandspike.com for his book. We basically did as Smash described for his book signings with www.dannyandspike.com on the flyer in local businesses. He was able to get good local traffic to his web site.

That was a very targeted market: South Riding and Stone Ridge, VA

For LocalExperts, we are going out with "I'm a Local Expert!" shirts, stickers, etc. Advertisers who spend a min each month will get a sticker. If you spend $100/month, you get a T-shirt. Everyone wants to be an expert!

So what is you don't live in the market or if you market is an entire large city like New York? Does this tactic still work? Can it scale? Do you need additional promotion to augment the grassroots effort?

AND TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

Why didn't you worry about Imandi's ad campaign, well I knew Lifeminders' tried a Super Bowl ad and that did very little. So unless I heard Imandi every 10 minutes, like I heard a Priceline ad back in the day, they didn't have enough reach to effectively build ther brand.

 

[smashfactory]

i think that when you go big, its all about being comprehensive. who would go to a nyc site that listed alot of catagories, but only 6 clubs in one section, 10 restaurants in another. this would prove to be a very daunting task, but i think well worht it.

also, i am a believer of people with the people. anybody can have a site of listings- thats what the phone book is for. but, make a deal with the cab company- give him a fantastic package on the site, possible referral cross promotion, and get your site on all his cabs.
get the local clubs to give out your matches, get with restaurants local to offfice complexes, and work a double deal- get the restaurant to give 10% off lunch coupons if you print them, and you print them with your site info too, and get them out to the workers in those buildings. there are literally hundreds of focus points to work with.
i know anyone can pay for some radio and tv ads in any metro area- but people are people, and i think that things stick more when you are face to face.
if i was opening a nyc.tv site, i would have a ground team- more people would be out of the office than in. a city is too big, and i think when a person can make it personal, then they have succeeded.

i dont know if i would go with shirts and stickers. i mean, if i won a shirt from the local supermarket or radio station, i woud probably sleep in it. stickers- are they really gonna get used? or put in a drawer? i just think you should go with something that has the greatest chance of repeated after-use promotion.

 

[TheBulldog]

OK, first of all, let's take a step back. You are talking, or at least I ASSUME you are talking about how to PAY to get people looking at your sites.

Realistically, the folks around here simply do NOT have the kind of budget needed to run massive ad campaigns. If they do have 8 million sitting around, I would seriuosly doubt the majority of folks in this section would even be in this section. If I had 8 million to play with, I would be playing with the .com bigger boys, or sitting on a beach drinking rum. Rum is the likely candidate.

What we should be talking about is creating a network together with the sites we already have. Build links to each other, run cost efficient google ads, create affiliations with each other on what we have.

I will be glad to work on that aspect. If you are asking on the other hand to have me or anyone else around here to chip in thousands on a campaign, I would have to point you to the TV marketplace. If people in there can't sell great names to each other in even the under $50 category, then they certainly aren't going to be paying through the nose on ads.

Not trying to slam, but I want this to be a realistic expectations conversation, and not a "I wish" thing.

 

[equity78]

I do not think Local is looking for people here to collaborate he has his own development plan, I think he was just trying to spark conversation and or poke holes in business models IMO

 

[smashfactory]

i wish thing?

 

[localexperts]

Actually, my point was that most people on this board can't pay for traffic. So if you can't pay for traffic, how are going to get significant traffic to your TV sites.

I want this to be realistic too.

So cross linking sites is one way, but that may have negative impact for your SEO ranking if a bunch of new sites start to cross link to one another.

But if you cross linked from a ME.TV or MySpace site to your site and then used the cross promotion of ME.TV or MySpace to build brand and then bring that brand over to the money making domain; that could be one approach.

Yes Equity, maybe I will get a new idea or help someone else. In two weeks, I turn all of Local Experts into a marketing machine. So while I work, I'm constantly thinking about ways to market our sites including our TV sites and GEO TV sites. I did get one new idea from NamePros in a previous thread.

 

[equity78]

So you were looking for people to tell you their business plan ? As Poodle and Skg are competitors of yours I do not know why they would share that with you on a public forum again IMO

 

[localexperts]

As with all threads on this forum, people post what they want to share and hold secret what they keep private. There are other GEO domain owners beside SKG, Poodle, and myself.

There are other people with thoughts on the subject.

Why not tap into a larger knowledge base and see if it sparks an idea in my own head.

 

[equity78]

My point was Bulldog thought your post was about collaboration as I am sure others did too, when the post was not about collaboration. That was my point Local

 

[localexperts]

Sorry, yes you are correct.......my post is not about collaboration, just sparking conversation.

My post was about conversation. I mean this same problem exists for all internet sites. Not just the GEOs. It just so happens that the GEOs have unique challenges since they are micro-targeting a local market.

 

[equity78]

Well this is an idea I gave you months ago, to create buzz you put out a pr that you are holding a contest for a local blogger for each city. Initial buzz is created by the contest and then you have local, updated daily content that will give people in the Local area a reason to come back to the site on a frequent basis. You give the blogger a piece of the pie and they should be more than happy providing you with Local Content.

 

[localexperts]

Yes, I like contests. That was a major factor in Lifeminders' ability to get eyeballs. We would offer contests for you to refer your friends. Approx 5 million users came in thru those contests.

I like contests that focus user behavior on levers that move the needle. That is a good idea and I will be using that idea next year thru your PR efforts.]

I believe having someone in your org or outsource to someone to run point on grassroots marketing is essential.

 

[equity78]

I like contests too, but the first contest does two things creates a buzz and then gets you the local blogger which I think will drive the site, not being greedy can go a long way, you may have a single mom who could use a piece of the advertising pie who knows the area and will be grateful for the opportunity.

 

[localexperts]

Long term, paying the local blogger has some challeneges. I mean this is Demand Media's entire game for ME.TV. They believe they will pay the ME.TV owners enough money to build content for their business. So the challenge is to reward the blogger (as you mentioned) with enough incentive to continue providing content for you. This would need to be a strategic decision.

Look at the national.tv site posted the other day (I forget the name of the site, but it was national.tv). They are paying three editors to provide content for their fitness channel. That is a good idea.


Update - NETWORKGLOBAL.TV - that was the national.tv site. Go to that site and you see one fitness channel with several editors providing content.

http://www.bodyarchitect.tv/editors/

I could do without the guy with his shirt off at the top of the screen - sorry a little joke.

 

[equity78]

I don't think it is as much Demand's Model on Me.tv when I spoke to them they were like we are not a "traffic company" The advertising should be looked at as nothing more than something extra in your stocking.

I think you would be surprised how little from your standpoint you could give that would go along way. Sometimes it could be just ego though, where they would write and be able to have a byline and link to their website.

 

[localexperts]

They are not a traffic company. Interesting because they are not a sales or marketing company. I would have thought MySpace was a traffic company, so ME.TV would also be a traffic company. Maybe they meant they don't provide traffic to other sites (like Google). But I would classifiy any media company as a traffic company. You are providing traffic to advertisers.

See this is why I need to change my mental model toward consumer grassroots marketing. I think too traditional.

Yes, Vanity is big. There is a reason we are plastering expert headshots all over local experts, the GEOs, and our verticals. We have advertisers who call and say, "I will pay anything to be #1 on your directory". They might as well say, "add another 50% on top of the standard fee". You never lead with that statement.

BTW, I need some help. There was an add at the bottom of NamePros for a company that offered driving traffic from expired domains. I wanted to test that company as a channel, but the banner ad appears to be gone. It was something like "DriveMoreTraffic.com" or a variant. I spent 30 mins last night refreshing the screen to find the ad. It appears to be gone. I was going to contact RJ and get their name.

 

[NetworkGlobal]

Good day to you all,

Just to jump in here.

NetworkGlobal.tv INC is NOT part of National.tv's efforts.

NetworkGlobal.tv INC is seperate from National.tv.

BodyArchitect.tv is part of NetworkGlobal.tv's growing offering of online media channels.

After showing this to my CEO, I am told that he knows of National.tv and hopes to work with them in the future.

With that said, we are seperate companies.

Respectfully,

Heath Blankenship
Information Specialist, NetworkGlobal.tv INC

NetworkGlobal.tv, The Online Television Network

 

[smashfactory]

when i ran a womens netowrk, i didnt have channels, but individual sites that was niche content based and were all part of the network- home, pregnancy, kids, crafts, etc... i never had to pay a single women to run those sites- and they came in droves wanting to be an editor- when we got up and running i had my advertising set in such a way that they began to get a portion of the profits from their ads on their sites and in their newsletters- but they came on initially as volunteers, and they loved being in control of that little part of our world-