Dynadot

People trying to sell domains before buying?

Located in Domain Buying and Selling Discussion started by wormfood, Dec 5, 2018.

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  1. Jv1999

    Jv1999 New Adventures: Squire of the Exo-Tower VIP

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    Oh okay, im' sorry. if you only agreed to $30 and never to $35, then it's all good. you're good man :tightlyclosedeyes:
     
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  2. Hireinternet

    Hireinternet Active Member VIP

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    He left feedback for me on friday but yesterday he removed that feedback :xf.wink: I was buying another domain from him but he closed his all threads and started outbound ;) Good Luck my friend (y)
     
  3. Jv1999

    Jv1999 New Adventures: Squire of the Exo-Tower VIP

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    yes, i nkow. i wanted to buy weight--/training too. . .
     
  4. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    Who said that? Link to the law please.
     
  5. mayazir

    mayazir VirtualNameMarket.com VIP

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    It is very very bad to buy domain and then sell it to potential buyer.. very very bad..
    But we buy and sell domains..
    Listen what I say you..
    I dont need all of you tell me how bad is it, I dont make even my own outbound..so I dont even plan make outbound of your domains..
    But it is too ridicolous, all of you so naive, you are talking here about ethics, about respect the word even if it was not given word but mistaken word...
    It is business and I know 100% all you say here they are just words, when you see the chance you will go ahead..
    And those who dont... well, you always will be gentelmens and ... losers..
    It is not my IMHO, this is the reallity, I just try to wake you up from your drreaming world...
    Good morning and welcome to the real life where or you pass over or they will pass you over,,,
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  6. mayazir

    mayazir VirtualNameMarket.com VIP

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    And who will be in charge to watch and check all outbounds?
    You?
    You plan to set up the ethic police department?
    Everybody can do whatever they want... acept it..
    You cant make them stop outbound your domains..
    So why you cry here if you cant do nothing?
     
  7. sircc

    sircc Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's illegal (fraud) in most civilized countries to misrepresent yourself as the owner of products that aren't yours, or you have not been commissioned to sell. These people are falsely representing you. Don't you understand the implications involved?

    How many times must this be repeated?
     
  8. MBFVa

    MBFVa New Member

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    In the used construction equipment market, what is being knocked around here is very similar to what is called “pinhooking”. An unattached or ”freelance” (so to speak) salesperson solicits buyers for equipment while connected to or. connecting with sellers he knows. I suppose if the pinhooker simply sends the buyer to the seller and collects a commission, that is different from getting a deposit and then buying the equipment/having it delivered to the buyer himself. Both scenarios happen, and other than some folks looking down on the pinhookers as a lower class of salesperson, not much negativity for anyone involved. Capitalism.

    Another scenario occurs in real estate, less common after 2008. An investor makes an offer on a property which is accepted but with the negotiated contingency of inspections, a study period or similar that takes time and allows an out. That buyer, called the contract purchaser at that point, then tries to re-sell his contracted purchase or the contract itself before he has to clear the study or inspection period. If he fails, then he simply squawks no deal for this reason or that so long as it voids under his contract, and he walks. Or he pulls off the resale and makes money.

    Some sellers will go ballistic on hearing this, others will shrug and take their money at closing. I’m a CPA (retired) not an atty but there is really nothing wrong with it as long as no one lies/cheats/steals.

    Auction companies used to get caught up in such deals but most now force any buyer to close as contracted, meaning if they resell, they must settle & pay, take title and then do a separate transaction to their own buyer. This is referred to as “prohibiting assignment”.

    In contracts I have offered I usually put “or assigns” after our names if the seller will permit it, not to flip but because I use LLCs to hold real estate, and usually create one for each buy. IRS “disregards” such entities for tax purposes if the only owners are a husband & wife, as in our case, or just one owner. It is a good thing since it means less paperwork at tax time.

    It’s amazing how some folks get mad when someone makes money that they did not. Yes, it can be irritating but isn’t that really kind of sour grapes? Just my 2 cents worth or lack of same.
     
  9. sircc

    sircc Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is not the same thing at all. This "fraud" is cold calling, emailing potential buyers, passing himself off as the owner. In certain cases, he could actually contact the wrong people and this could result in a CD or UDRP, levied against the rightful owner. This is not real estate.

    There is a reason many, if not most of us don't do outbound.
     
  10. karmaco

    karmaco Active Member VIP

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    I just want to know why the seller sold so cheap and why he let him reduce the allready cheap price by $5 😂

    If there is one enlightening thing about this thread it has shone a bright light on who we should not sell to. This is in part why I don’t sell names here for the most part.

    This is a cut throat and competive business. You need to accept that and price your domains accordingly.

    Technically since the seller accepted the low price he really had no business complaining about it here later. But in theory I do agree this is typical shady salesman tactics that should be expected. Do I think it’s right? No. But business and ethics really have very little to do with one another.
     
  11. Jay Ha

    Jay Ha Exploring.. Gold Account

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    Never done this, even barely done outbounds on my own names, my opinion is that this practice is unethical if it involves misrepresentation and selling without being commissioned to do so, but let's consider this scenario:
    1. Seller offers domain for sale for very cheap to his closed circle (here it is NamePros marketplace)
    2. Buyer thinks this is a bargain price but still won't risk buying the domain if there are no potential end users.
    3. Buyer contacts potential end user by saying: hello end user, it has come to my attention that the domain xxxxxx.xxx would be a great fit to your business and is for sale. If you are interested, I can get it for you for a cheap price, is $1,000 ok? (domain meanwhile resolves to a undeveloped lander with a $2,000 BIN but is offered on NP for $30)
    4. A brief negotiation happens and finally the end user agrees and the deal closes.
    5. Buyer buys domain from seller on NP
    6. Buyer sells domain to end user for premium price.
    Here the buyer didn't mention to the end user that he is the owner nor did he say that he is acting on behalf of the owner. It is all about picking the right words. Knowing that the seller was kind of binning his domain for wholesale price so it is not like he is still planning to sell it for premium, and although I'm not a fan of such practices, I think this practice is not harmful to the owner.

    I say take off BIN prices from your marketplace listings when selling on NP to minimize this practice if you don't like it.
     
  12. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    If this is going on any domain for sale at namepros is liable for outbound marketing by people who don’t own them, but what seize the upside opportunity without any downside risk. Must be against namepros TOS.

    So I guess all the people who oppose this are ok with people emailing end users of domains they have listed for sale trying to sell them, before they commit to purchase them from them.

    Also concerning the domain medigroup org, there is an actual live trademark on this brand, and maybe that is why he only got $250, otherwise some companies would rather pay $3000 in a UDRP rather than $250 to a domain spammer. The original owner could have been in some trouble.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  13. 1Darko

    1Darko Active Member VIP

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    Thanks to OP for opening this thread. I for myself condemn business practices of people selling domains which they don't own without any approval of the current owner!
    However members and OP must realize that there was already established a binding contract between the OP and the buyer. Legally you even don't need any written contract,. If you can proove in court that you made an oral agreement you will win that case! A clean business reputation is worth gold and you can make handshake deals! Therefor I value all namepros members which are man or women of their words! The payment and the domain transfer are only technicalities!
    Of course the world is no perfect place so everybody should make his due dilligence before buying or selling domains!
    In the recent years I have learned from fellow namepros members that in case of domain buying threads to limit the domain offers to the potential buyers for 24 hours to avoid and cut the possibilities for the potential buyers of outbounding the offered domains.
    Well that's all form me folks - wish you all a happy and successful December!:xf.smile:
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  14. Thelma

    Thelma New Member

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    mayazir, you're a caricature of why domaining struggles to gain wider respect or legitimacy. For every 10 folks trying to conduct business in a manner which benefits and grows the industry, there's a carnival barker like you ranting about the primacy of profit, ethics be damned.

    Here's a crazy idea-- you can be an aggressive advocate for the domains you own, you can refuse offers you don't consider representative of value, you can even determine your own market based on a personal assessment of strategy and financial need. What you can't do without coming off as ghoulish-- is assume that everything including other people's domains is fair game. A wise man once told me-- if you inject the invisible hand with steroids, it'll bitch-slap you.

    Yeah, no implications...
    archive.org/17/items/gov.uscourts.cacd.681500/gov.uscourts.cacd.681500.1.0.pdf
     
  15. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK guys, if you're still not convinced that it is wrong, unethical (and even illegal) to 'broker' somebody else's domains without their knowledge and permission, let me know.

    I will spam end users like crazy with your domain names in an attempt to make a buck at your expense, and then I will let you deal with the fallout such as: complaints to your registrar, webhost, possible UDRPs, various legal threats, and the angry posts made by spam recipients on public forums, tarnishing your reputation as a domain owner.

    Don't be surprised if your domain ends up being suspended as a result of the spam campaign led on your behalf. GD will certainly do that. Example: https://www.namepros.com/threads/go...another-registrar-after-spam-complain.691252/
    But you can try to convince them of your innocence.
     
  16. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Good read, thanks for posting this.
     
  17. wormfood

    wormfood 3.9999999999999 Gold Account VIP

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    "I was buying another domain from him" dunno what you're talking about but okay

    about the $30,
    I think I just interpreted our exchange differently. when you said you could pay and gave your Undeveloped details, I assumed we had agreed.

    Screenshot from 2018-12-08 11-49-38.png


    Congrats on the flip. I didn't mention you in the first post, because I was just speculating. Some people still wanted to know, so I told the silly story.

    I'll make a positive review.
     
  18. Hireinternet

    Hireinternet Active Member VIP

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    I asked and did not mention my price because i have doubt that you will not accept payment through undeveloped.com but you said okey after i gave my price -
     
  19. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Why would you lie about not having PayPal ?
     
  20. Hireinternet

    Hireinternet Active Member VIP

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    I do not have paypal - pakistan do not have paypal access - using friends paypal account . But that time paypal was Nill -
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  21. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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  22. Hireinternet

    Hireinternet Active Member VIP

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  23. wormfood

    wormfood 3.9999999999999 Gold Account VIP

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    Also..I suppose there's a small(?) chance for all domains here that they've already been emailed around by at least one of the previous owners (doesn't make selling other people's domains okay.. just another situation).

    There have been a couple times that I was going to register a geo+produt/service domain, and when I checked the whois history, I recognized the previous owners as np members who sell a lot of domains by emailing. So I think I passed on those..

    how would you react if you kept getting emails about the same .com every x months..
    domainer #1 emails the heads of all relevant companies, offering someproduct.com for $50k.
    doesn't sell, and he needs money. eventually auctions it on namejet for $5k.
    domainer #2 hires a broker to do the same thing. some of the same companies get the emails. this time it happens to be $75k.. :ROFL:
    and so on.
     
  24. toughdomains

    toughdomains Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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    this sounds like a new scam...get listed on a marketplace with sales...list the name for more than the buy now and when someone buys it make money off the difference.
    The fact is while many marketplaces try to confirm ownership it not an easy task...the user may have a different account email from whois email or they simply maybe cutting and pasting an old list of names that include some that were sold. you can verify by the user updating dns or txt record. I would say that marketplaces do a good job at delisting deleted or expired names but there are tons of names listed with the wrong user. The best thing as a buyer is to go through to the actual domain to make an offer or whois record. Even though I still have all my names on a contact form...I still receive some offers from my whois email...when you get those you know the buyer is advanced....

    this would be a great use for blockchain tech to confirm ownership and authenticity of the name you are trying to buy...vthor token could probably be used for this...the owner would need to painstakenly verify all names then enter the verified code into each marketplace to confirm the name is verified by owner...the blockchain could also check for changes in whois changes or reg status.
     
  25. toughdomains

    toughdomains Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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