Nothing suspicious here then - Hmmm!

[wot]

At Sedo

I may be wrong but looks a bit strange. IM-HO.com


Three i----.asia names, all regged in June 08, owned by the same person- all have bids of exactly 3,500 euro and an almost identical finish time. :o

 

[hookah]

Self-bidding is sooo popular way of inflating a price (self I mean from other account or 'with help of a friend'). Kind of cheating but nothing exceptional, unfortunately. You're right they are suspicious.

 

[wot]

Self-bidding is sooo popular way of inflating a price (self I mean from other account or 'with help of a friend'). Kind of cheating but nothing exceptional, unfortunately. You're right they are suspicious.

I think the word is fraud.
:wave:

 

[hookah]

I think the word is fraud.
:wave:

At least a kind of ...
Auction sites dont investigate such cases too intensively as they gain money anyway: a higher final bid - a higher fee And to document a price inflating by a seller friend is soo difficult.

 

[wot]

I think it is fraud which ever way you gloss it.

I am not a lawyer but if the auction houses do not investigate such cases then they are also guilty of condoning fraud which in itself I would think is illegal. :td:

I do agree that in many cases it is difficult to determine but this instance stands out like a sore thumb. :imho:

 

[sgtppr]

if you bid on it yourself and you win, then you still have to pay the fee right? doesnt make much sense to misimo

 

[hookah]

if you bid on it yourself and you win, then you still have to pay the fee right? doesnt make much sense to misimo

Yes...if you win ...and if you dont cancel an auction...or if you dont remove you bid before the end...etc etc.
I dont think such sellers are so stupid or lazy.

There is also 1% the auctions mentioned by Wot are not cheated - just a small %

 

[mwzd]

You can't cancel your auction or your bid. But if all are being bid by one buyer... he can just cancel his account...

If someone else gets caught in the scam and bids... he pays the seller... whose account is not cancelled.

This is known as shill bidding and is illegal - theres plenty of info on this if you read up - though i disagree that most sedo auctions are fraud.

 

[Sleepys]

You can't cancel your auction or your bid. But if all are being bid by one buyer... he can just cancel his account...

If someone else gets caught in the scam and bids... he pays the seller... whose account is not cancelled.

This is known as shill bidding and is illegal - theres plenty of info on this if you read up - though i disagree that most sedo auctions are fraud.

I agree here completely. Wot, I hope that you report your suspicions to a Sedo employee (maybe Sedo on here), rather than just posting of NP. I know that most online auction sites rely on members to help spot out fraud. Also, shill bidding is terrible, and some domain auction houses (ahem Moniker) actually shill bid up to the reserve on almost every name, which I think is also terrible.

Bottom line, I would report every suspicious auction to Sedo and Ebay. Then, if they do nothing, we can really blame them.

 

[Sedo]

At Sedo

I may be wrong but looks a bit strange. IM-HO.com


Three i----.asia names, all regged in June 08, owned by the same person- all have bids of exactly 3,500 euro and an almost identical finish time. :o

Thank you for informing us on this. Our Quality Management department monitors the marketplace activity for this type of behavior, and if they find any shill bidding activity, appropriate action is taken against those auctions and members.

Please let us know the domains in question, in case they have not been reviewed already, and they will be forwarded to that department.

-Stephanie

 

[GF]

Stephanie,
Thanks so much for being on top of this for us!

We all really appreciate that -

GF

 

[wot]

Sedo have investigated and confirmed that the 3500 euro bids on each of ichina.asia , imobile.asia , icasino.asia are OK, not bad for three names regged only 3 months ago by the same guy in a so so extension.

I'm jealous - and yes- still skeptical. IM-HO.com

 

[lzy]

Lucky guy!

 

[mwzd]

Seller: Lucky Guy (iff he gets paid)

Buyer: Poor sucker

:D

 

[allroundguy]

Let us be realistic intead of emotional...

Why would this be fraud?
Why not wait to see if the domains are sold for that price if nobody goes higher?
And, if so, then it is upon Sedo and the seller to take legal action against the non-paying bidder.
Instead of saying that all bids by family and friends who want to start in domains are fraud.
Why can domains only be purchased by complete strangers?

The auction principle is that Sedo account holders are allowed to make an offer on any domain listed.
What will Sedo do if we pay for a TV commercial and ask therein to bid on one of our domains on Sedo?
What will Sedo do if we put a domain offer request in our email signature?

Why is it considered fraud if we ask somebody to buy our domain?
Why can't we sell our domains to friends and relatives through Sedo?
Why sell only to people that we don't know?

How can somebody tell in advance that a bidder does not have the intention to buy?

Shill bidding is fraud, indeed.
And should not be tolerated.

But what's the problem if a friend or family member makes an offer and then pays Sedo for to get it?

No offense meant, but this kind of story appear on a regularly basis on forums and it is usually initiated by people who don't want to pay asking prices, talking about overpricing, knowing little about the universal principles of demand and supply.
End users don't care - They pay what it takes.
Why care about what is paid for a domain by other people?
That's nobody's business.
IMHO ...



Anyway, Sedo rules are Sedo rules.
Who wants to use Sedo services, should follow the rules.
Let us hope Sedo will follow their own rules.
And check again their list for the upcoming Premium Auction.
Most domains there do not match the Sedo requirements.
But again, Sedo rules are Sedo rules ...

 

[wot]

Instead of saying that all bids by family and friends who want to start in domains are fraud.


Why can't we sell our domains to friends and relatives through Sedo?

But what's the problem if a friend or family member makes an offer and then pays Sedo for to get it?

No offense meant, but this kind of story appear on a regularly basis on forums and it is usually initiated by people who don't want to pay asking prices, talking about overpricing, knowing little about the universal principles of demand and supply.
End users don't care - They pay what it takes.
Why care about what is paid for a domain by other people?
That's nobody's business.
IMHO ...

...

You would happily give away 10% to Sedo selling to family or friends. :?

I do give a whatsit, I do know a little about domains and the associated business and supply and demand.

I do care what is paid for domains as it gives me a benchmark for my own sales /pricing and it should be relevant to others who take this business seriously.

I sincerely hope that these are genuine sales and it will give hope to those new in the business that you can turn $30+ in to $20K plus in three months.

However, despite Sedo's reassurances I will follow these "sales" carefully and hope that my skepticism is ill founded. IM-HO.com

 

[mwzd]

Let us be realistic intead of emotional...

Good idea.

Why would this be fraud?
Why not wait to see if the domains are sold for that price if nobody goes higher?
And, if so, then it is upon Sedo and the seller to take legal action against the non-paying bidder.
Instead of saying that all bids by family and friends who want to start in domains are fraud.
Why can domains only be purchased by complete strangers?

Starting of an auction based on the bid of a relative or friend is shill bidding imo, specially at these prices, I'd go so far as to say if the auction was started by a friend/relative at this price, its fraud.

The auction principle is that Sedo account holders are allowed to make an offer on any domain listed.
What will Sedo do if we pay for a TV commercial and ask therein to bid on one of our domains on Sedo?
What will Sedo do if we put a domain offer request in our email signature?
Why is it considered fraud if we ask somebody to buy our domain?
Why can't we sell our domains to friends and relatives through Sedo?
Why sell only to people that we don't know?
How can somebody tell in advance that a bidder does not have the intention to buy?
Shill bidding is fraud, indeed.
And should not be tolerated.
But what's the problem if a friend or family member makes an offer and then pays Sedo for to get it?

Read what you're writing, sedo auctions can be started by anyone, but if they're started explicitly with the aim of 'scamming' another bidder to bid higher... it is shill bidding.

No offense meant, but this kind of story appear on a regularly basis on forums and it is usually initiated by people who don't want to pay asking prices, talking about overpricing, knowing little about the universal principles of demand and supply.
End users don't care - They pay what it takes.
Why care about what is paid for a domain by other people?
That's nobody's business.
IMHO ...

You're the seller, aren't you? Who's the bidder? Your relative or friend?

Anyway, Sedo rules are Sedo rules.
Who wants to use Sedo services, should follow the rules.
Let us hope Sedo will follow their own rules.
And check again their list for the upcoming Premium Auction.
Most domains there do not match the Sedo requirements.
But again, Sedo rules are Sedo rules ...

Sedo has in fact made a statement about 'solicitation of bids' on Namepros if you must talk about rules.

I honestly think that not only should you educate yourself on what is and what is not shill bidding, you should also actually read sedo rules before writing stuff like and this and giving newbies the impression that this is in any way legal... we won't even go into the moral questions here.

 

[hookah]

allroundguy - I am for your opinion that formally auction frauds are nobody's business but auction sites' staff although I also suggest you to be more realistic and logical than emotional. Personally I prefer a domaining business clean and free from frauds, dont you? I am sorry, but your idea of relatives and friends of a seller just wanting to buy names via auction site with high commision is naive. Formally this is not forbidden but in practice it is just a silly way of contacting a seller whom I know and can call or visit in his home , dont you think?

Your questions include false suppositions (Who told you such nonsenses?)
we may sell names to our friends
we may advertise our names listed on Sedo
we may ask somebody to buy our name

etc. etc.

 

[allroundguy]

Read what is there,my friends:
I do not promote fraud.
It just does not matter who buys a domain.
We are free to sell to who we want.
Sell directly face-to-face.
Or just give away.

Why do You care about what commission we pay to family, friends, partners?
We pay commission to complete strangers, not You?

These might be interesting:

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/computers/internet-auction/internet_auctions.htm#fraud

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.marketing.online.ebay/2006-05/msg02449.html

Anyway, we don't need Sedo etc. to reach some people.
This forum is one of the many forums.
Sedo is one of the many auction sites.

Quote:
"""we may sell names to our friends
we may advertise our names listed on Sedo
we may ask somebody to buy our name."""
End Quote.

That is a right.
Sedo's rules are in-house rules.
Some laws regulate shill bidding, I know.
But the rule is that, if the first bidder fulfills the sale if not outbid, there is technically no shill bidding.

Like it, or not:
Technically, the opening bid cannot be shill.

But, hey:
Maybe 99% of all starting offers are just fake ...
$60.00 offers are De Facto suspicious?
Some people offer well far more as a starting bid.
Isn't that more suspicious?
Who makes such offers to complete strangers?
For domains that are used with web content getting supposed traffic, revenue, etc?
What happens on open cry auctions, where sellers and buyers sit together?
Isn't that suspicious?
The difference is mainly who cashes in the commission.

This kind of thread originates from big fear for fraud and maybe from anger about insufficient funds to buy certain domains.

I am on the Net since 1993, and sold lots of domains over the years.

I say:
Who plays a game, must follow the In-House, Federal and other rules.
Or don't play.

But please read the rules:
"Shill Bidding" is what the Law says it is.
Certain in-site/ on-auction behavior can be sanctioned by Sedo indeed.
If they catch You doing something they don't like, You are to blame.

At last:
There do is a general recession among domain auction webs.
No names here, but there are rumors about certain companies stagnating and worse.
Let's make the rules a little more difficult, so everybody can step out of domain business.
Buyers, sellers, registrars, name it.

I think Bullish, not BS.
Make buyers happy.
Make opening bids.
Get domains on auction.
If nobody outbids me, I buy.
But I usually sell
That, dear friends, is no fraud.
That's legal business.
Placing an opening bid is not fraud.

WOT:
There are no benchmarks.
Reseller prices and end user prices are usually very different, with reason.
Stats say nothing about what was decisive in concluding a sale.
And that is the main point.
We can do nothing with stats if buyer resp. seller doesn't care about.

Success!

 

[mwzd]

I'll clarify my thought process...

If you make a bid on a name and it is sent to auction and no one else bids and you pay and complete the transaction... its not shill bidding.

However when you inflate the initial price of an offer... just to 'entrap' unsuspecting bidders into outbidding you... that is shill bidding.

A $60 bid on a $500 name is a lot more palatable than a $5000 bid on a $60 name... if you get the difference.

I'll wait for wot's analysis of what does and what does not happen viz these three sales... just for my info.

As for allroundguy's suppositions and skirting of the issue - I think its upto Sedo to clarify as the marketplace.