New Top Level Domains!

[ZOX]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to get your feedback on these new gTLD's:
...
uniteddomains.com/ntld/pre-register-new-domains/
...
Anyone pre-registering them yet?
...
It seems like ICANN will completely change the rules of domains in 2012 to a point that what comes before the dot will be much less important than what comes AFTER the dot!

 

[DU]

There are 100M .COM. There are 6.7B people on Earth.

As popular as .COM is, there is only 1 per 67 people on Earth.

I don't see some registry like .GENT being feasible with such a small target audience.

Even by ICANN's estimate, at best, the first gTLD won't even be live until November 2013 (2 1/2 years). That is at best.

For extensions that involve multiple bidders, disputes, legal issues, etc. it could be MUCH longer.

The established extensions will just become more established.

Brad

There are issues on the governance of the TLD for certain. Within the TLD I don't think it will be an issue.

The target audience for Gent is 250,000 people managed through however many channels they create. It's no different than a mall.

How does a mall make money in small towns? It creates sales channels and outlets that cater to everyone. They don't try to sell everyone an outlet.

Does what I"m saying make sense yet? If I can't get people out of the domainname.tld mindset then there's no point discussing further. We're on totally different pages. Then again, I have no idea that this is what they plan to do either.. lol

If they do what you think they're going to do they're going to hopelessly fail - so maybe we just agree and I think too much.

 

[gpmgroup]

COIN = Community of Interest Network

In this case the community and interests are interlinked/common.

I don't know Ghent/Gent I've never been but most places I've actually been to have people who have different and complex sets of individual affiliations to - the town, the county, the region, the country etc.

Hull is a similar size and a .hull TLD would struggle even with no setup costs. All the local businesses would just say why?

And the vast majority of individuals who would even consider changing their email address would soon change their minds when you told them they had to pay even $10 a year. The response would be ah ok I'll think about it and in the meantime stay with Gmail which is free lol

 

[DU]

I don't know Ghent/Gent I've never been but most places I've actually been to have people who have different and complex sets of individual affiliations to - the town, the county, the region, the country etc.

Hull is a similar size and a .hull TLD would struggle even with no setup costs. All the local businesses would just say why?

But most people would go to see Hull KR, Hull City...

It's amazing what local businesses do when you provide them customers.

All hypothetical because I don't know what they're doing If the people of Hull showed no interest, maybe that's why there's no .HULL group

Ok. I'm done. Thanks for the chit chat.

 

[gpmgroup]

Ok. I'm done. Thanks for the chit chat.

Cool thanks for your thoughts I'm really trying to see if there is a way to make these things work!

 

[Archangel]

Oh. Sad to say that I've never heard the acronym before :p

COIN = Community of Interest Network

In this case the community and interests are interlinked/common.

---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

Repeat that again? Successful? I doubt 99.5% of anyone had ever heard of it.

The .CAT TLD is a good example of a small and successful TLD.

 

[DU]

[/COLOR]Repeat that again? Successful? I doubt 99.5% of anyone had ever heard of it.

You heard of Glencore?

 

[Archangel]

I'm not talking about a person or a city or a language or animal. I'm talking about the .cat extension. I could ask 1,000 ppl if they've ever seen or heard of a .cat and they'd say no, at least 90-95% of them. And that's going by random selection, not asking only ppl of a certain group. .cat isn't a "successful" extension unless you factor in its continued existence, only.

You heard of Glencore?

 

[gpmgroup]

.cat is a bit unfortunate for Catapillar Inc. especially if there is a .ford and .case.

But then it's the same for Hewlett Parkard if there is a .dell and .ibm

Can't imagine those companies and others in a similar position will be too happy when they see ICANN has granted their competitors an implicit DNS branding advantage, an advantage which is only available through paying a fee to ICANN.

 

[jmcc]

[/COLOR]Repeat that again? Successful? I doubt 99.5% of anyone had ever heard of it.

Well the people in the Catalan region of Spain have and that's what matters. Basically it covers the Catalan culture and people. Not everyone wants to use the local ccTLD or gTLDs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.cat

Not every TLD has to be global but every TLD has to serve its market.

So what exactly is the definition of a successful TLD? This is the question that is going to be asked a lot in the next few years.

Regards...jmcc

 

[gpmgroup]

So what exactly is the definition of a successful TLD? This is the question that is going to be asked a lot in the next few years.

Representing a community which has been around for 100's of years in the real world, having a nation like sense of shared identity shared by a 7,500,000 population and a responsible registry company in for the long haul rather than defensive, sunrise and speculative registrations might be a good start.

 

[alien51]

I could ask 1,000 ppl if they've ever seen or heard of a .cat and they'd say no, at least 90-95% of them.

Your sampling size is statistically way too low, man. lol

But i won't doubt your argument. If only they opened up the TLD to cat lovers, i'm sure there are legions out there. The TLD could have been more useful (or maybe they'll now allow them to register .PUSSY?)

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

.cat is a bit unfortunate for Catapillar Inc.

Atleast now, they can register .Caterpillar and i'm sure there will be few claimants to that extension.

But then it's the same for Hewlett Parkard

It really proves typos do have traffic. Yes?

 

[Archangel]

Yeah, I was just making a point lol

Your sampling size is statistically way too low, man. lol

lol Lesson learned, I hope.

It really proves typos do have traffic. Yes?

 

[gpmgroup]

lol Lesson learned, I hope.

 

[gazzip]

T

A responsible ICANN would prevent or at least make it clear where a new gTLD is unlikely to be sustainable beyond the easy money from the defensive and speculation periods.

A responsible ICANN wouldn't even think of releasing tens, hundreds, thousands of new TLD's, nor would they be charging people $185K + $xx,xxx per year.

ICANN is out of control, blinded by the American dollar...nothing more.

This is a pretty good read on FT.com

ft.com/cms/s/2/d183c640-9b67-11e0-bbc6-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1QKSUY57b

“This is a classic example of a solution without a problem,” Ken Hittel, vice-president of the corporate internet department at New York Life Insurance Company, said. “This is essentially a protection racket run by Icann on behalf of its true constituents, the registrars and registries”, who will profit from the expansion of the internet addressing system he said."

---------------

"It is the biggest shake-up of the internet naming system since .com was created 26 years ago.

---------------

"Mei-Lan Stark, chief intellectual property lawyer for News Corp’s Fox Entertainment Group, estimated in congressional testimony last month that the changes could cost Fox $12m."

----------------
..Yet sex.com only cost 13 million
----------------

“It is easily $500,000 just to get started,” said Antony Van Couvering, chief operating officer of Top Level Domain Holdings, which plans to bid for several new domains. "

---------------

Welcome to the millionaires .playground - Big fat check required.

.whatever

.

 

[bmugford]

“This is a classic example of a solution without a problem,” Ken Hittel, vice-president of the corporate internet department at New York Life Insurance Company, said. “This is essentially a protection racket run by Icann on behalf of its true constituents, the registrars and registries”, who will profit from the expansion of the internet addressing system he said."

Yeah, the program was not created because of popular demand. It was created because ICANN has a clear self financial interest.

All it will do is strengthen the established extensions.

It will create too many similar domains. None will have traffic, so you are buying a brand.

What is better?

Hotels.NYC
NewYork.Hotels
NYC.Hotels
NY.Hotels

There are too many confusing options. People will stick to what they know and is credible.

Brad

 

[gpmgroup]

This article is scathing

Can ICANN really be necessary?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/23/icann-internet-domain-names

Are you ready for .xxx, .coke and .insertyournamehere? You'd better get ready, because an organisation with significant authority and scant accountability says you must.

With a budget north of $60m, Icann's board members and staff – who strike me as well-meaning, if too often unwise, in their actions – have embedded their work into the DNA of modern cyberspace. One would expect no less from an enterprise that can essentially tax the internet and is simultaneously accountable to everyone and no one.

Esther Dyson, former board chair at Icann (and a friend), told NPR she considered the new domains "a useless market". She is right, but I'd go further: Icann itself is unneeded, or should be made to be so.

 

[gazzip]

What is better?

Hotels.NYC
NewYork.Hotels
NYC.Hotels
NY.Hotels

There are too many confusing options. People will stick to what they know and is credible.

Brad

NewYorkHotels.com what did it cost? maybe $150k to $250K perhaps ? ..then $10 per year for life.

Unfortunately alot of these new TLD's will be rigged from the get go, the register will cream off everyones "pre-registered" domains stick them in a shell company then sell or auction them off.

Some might work out fine if its a proper group that really wants to represent something meaningful, like .green, .eco or perhaps .hotel if they have the hotel associations on board ?? (dothotel.com)

They'll have to throw an insane amount of money at them to win the ICANN auction.

The whole thing is pretty ridiculous but it'll be fun to watch...its early days


.

 

[alien51]

It will create too many similar domains. None will have traffic, so you are buying a brand.

Well, in the first place, opening up an infinite amount of TLDs could solve the problem of "shortage" in "brandable" domain names. Atleast a solution was made possible by ICANN.

If they don't have traffic, then they are not supposed to be a nuisance to anyone surfing the internet since you will rarely stumble upon these websites anyway.

It's like a "don't care" factor in the internet world. People will continue to live their normal internet lives without even realizing gazillion domain names with exotic extensions were recently added.

It's up to the OWNERS of these exotic domains to SPEND the time, effort, and money, to promote their newly acquired domains.

Your problem will only start to surface when they begin having traffic, competing with you on search results, and gaining prominence in social media marketing blitz.

I think most existing domain owners are scared of the POTENTIAL competition from these new TLDs (which is a possibility).

After all, if you honestly believe none of them would ever gain traffic or top search rankings, then all these talk would be nothing but hogwash.

Domain owners are scared that their com/net/org portfolios would eventually get devalued. There is still a "scary" spot inside of them that they probably are in denial which is why this issue is dragging. If something is not a threat, then just bring it on, right?

I won't be scared of added competition.

I WOULD be scared if the rules were changed that will give certain competitors (especially the new entries) the advantage.

What is better?

Hotels.NYC
NewYork.Hotels
NYC.Hotels
NY.Hotels

There are too many confusing options.

People will not have the option to choose which is better. They will let Google choose which is better.

If it is confusing, humans will not spend the effort to even try to "remember" which is better.

They will just BOOKMARK the first ones they find appealing to them. The rest will be thrown into the garbage can.

Again, what i do believe will make sense: If a person is searching for "hotels in bahamas" on Google, it would make sense if Google will return the .hotels domains first. The logic is valid, since .hotels is a restricted extension where owners are screened for authenticity that you actually belong to the hotel industry and not just a domainer with scraped content trying to game the system.

If Google does that kind algorithm change, then the COMs are toast. So far, i have only read "opinions" of seo specialists. I haven't read anything official coming out of Google promising they won't change their algos in favor of "domain extension priority segregation".

 

[gpmgroup]

I won't be scared of added competition.

I WOULD be scared if the rules were changed that will give certain competitors (especially the new entries) the advantage.

The problem is ICANN is manipulating the multi stakeholder concept to get a preordained solution which suits ICANNs own and ICANN contracted and would be contracted parties interests even when those interests don’t align with the wider public interest.

This is extremely shortsighted behavior and not a healthy situation for the governance of the DNS. We are already seeing the implications of such actions. –

The prospect of the breaking of universal resolvability of sites together with the premise that wholesale censorship will become the accepted norm rather than the reviled exception.

More chances for innocent domain registrants to lose their property through extra mechanisms granted to appease TM holders for an expanded namespace.

The removal of price caps through equal treatment clauses for existing registrants.

Vertical Integration for existing registries through equal treatment clauses.

More government intervention and hands on oversight in the DNS

And this is before new gTLDs are even launched. If new gTLDs are allowed to descend into an unsustainable speculation spiral there will be even wider costs and implications for [innocent third party] existing domain registrants.

Beyond the launch for example even if price caps remain and quite a few new gTLDs are priced at say $50 or even $20 wholesale, then existing gTLDs will be perceived as cheap and will make it easier for them to get larger increases in the price caps.

 

[Archangel]

I don't care who you ppl are, how much money you have or how big your portfolios are. Read this post and read it well. Then read it again.I think a lotta ppl aren't looking at it like this. They should be.

Well, in the first place, opening up an infinite amount of TLDs could solve the problem of "shortage" in "brandable" domain names. Atleast a solution was made possible by ICANN.

If they don't have traffic, then they are not supposed to be a nuisance to anyone surfing the internet since you will rarely stumble upon these websites anyway.

It's like a "don't care" factor in the internet world. People will continue to live their normal internet lives without even realizing gazillion domain names with exotic extensions were recently added.

It's up to the OWNERS of these exotic domains to SPEND the time, effort, and money, to promote their newly acquired domains.

Your problem will only start to surface when they begin having traffic, competing with you on search results, and gaining prominence in social media marketing blitz.

I think most existing domain owners are scared of the POTENTIAL competition from these new TLDs (which is a possibility).

After all, if you honestly believe none of them would ever gain traffic or top search rankings, then all these talk would be nothing but hogwash.

Domain owners are scared that their com/net/org portfolios would eventually get devalued. There is still a "scary" spot inside of them that they probably are in denial which is why this issue is dragging. If something is not a threat, then just bring it on, right?

I won't be scared of added competition.

I WOULD be scared if the rules were changed that will give certain competitors (especially the new entries) the advantage.




People will not have the option to choose which is better. They will let Google choose which is better.

If it is confusing, humans will not spend the effort to even try to "remember" which is better.

They will just BOOKMARK the first ones they find appealing to them. The rest will be thrown into the garbage can.

Again, what i do believe will make sense: If a person is searching for "hotels in bahamas" on Google, it would make sense if Google will return the .hotels domains first. The logic is valid, since .hotels is a restricted extension where owners are screened for authenticity that you actually belong to the hotel industry and not just a domainer with scraped content trying to game the system.

If Google does that kind algorithm change, then the COMs are toast. So far, i have only read "opinions" of seo specialists. I haven't read anything official coming out of Google promising they won't change their algos in favor of "domain extension priority segregation".

 

[DU]

What is better?

Hotels.NYC
NewYork.Hotels
NYC.Hotels
NY.Hotels

There are too many confusing options. People will stick to what they know and is credible.

Brad

None are better. People will use the one that is marketed the best and provides the most useful service/product to them.

Which is better?

RC Cola
Coca-Cola
Pepsi
Pakola
Thumbs Up

Which is better for books?

BN.com
Books.com
Alibris.com
bandlbooks.com
ebay.com
www.bookfinder.us
amazon.co.uk
amazon.com
amazon.ie
amazon.ca

People don't stick with anything. People are fickle.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

People will not have the option to choose which is better. They will let Google choose which is better.

If you owned .hotel and your service was based on hotels...

Why wouldn't someone just go directly to your .hotel infrastructure?

Why would you even really let Google in? What if you charged Google to get in? What if you were strategic partners?

Perhaps IP ownership is part of what this buys you. You can segregate your data and manage it how you please with much greater protection. Controlling your own namespace is a HUGE consideration. You don't have to play by anyone elses SEO rules.

 

[Gregmde7]

I got to agree with syberforum that it's useless. It's going to be triclinic the amount of domain extensions that are going to be coming. I really don't like it.

 

[mwzd]

Well, in the first place, opening up an infinite amount of TLDs could solve the problem of "shortage" in "brandable" domain names. Atleast a solution was made possible by ICANN.

If they don't have traffic, then they are not supposed to be a nuisance to anyone surfing the internet since you will rarely stumble upon these websites anyway.

It's like a "don't care" factor in the internet world. People will continue to live their normal internet lives without even realizing gazillion domain names with exotic extensions were recently added.

It's up to the OWNERS of these exotic domains to SPEND the time, effort, and money, to promote their newly acquired domains.

Your problem will only start to surface when they begin having traffic, competing with you on search results, and gaining prominence in social media marketing blitz.

I think most existing domain owners are scared of the POTENTIAL competition from these new TLDs (which is a possibility).

After all, if you honestly believe none of them would ever gain traffic or top search rankings, then all these talk would be nothing but hogwash.

Domain owners are scared that their com/net/org portfolios would eventually get devalued. There is still a "scary" spot inside of them that they probably are in denial which is why this issue is dragging. If something is not a threat, then just bring it on, right?

I won't be scared of added competition.

I WOULD be scared if the rules were changed that will give certain competitors (especially the new entries) the advantage.




People will not have the option to choose which is better. They will let Google choose which is better.

If it is confusing, humans will not spend the effort to even try to "remember" which is better.

They will just BOOKMARK the first ones they find appealing to them. The rest will be thrown into the garbage can.

Again, what i do believe will make sense: If a person is searching for "hotels in bahamas" on Google, it would make sense if Google will return the .hotels domains first. The logic is valid, since .hotels is a restricted extension where owners are screened for authenticity that you actually belong to the hotel industry and not just a domainer with scraped content trying to game the system.

If Google does that kind algorithm change, then the COMs are toast. So far, i have only read "opinions" of seo specialists. I haven't read anything official coming out of Google promising they won't change their algos in favor of "domain extension priority segregation".

Very well put together post, though it's not infinite but a max of 1000 new extensions per the latest guidebook.

Fairly valid points about the 'fear factor' of new extensions, goes to explain the high quality of domains being sold, as also the complete disregard of lower quality names in established extensions, including .com

I tried but...

We're glad that you're fond of this member, but please give some rep points to some other members before giving it to alien51 again.

 

[gazzip]

The problem is ICANN is manipulating the multi stakeholder concept to get a preordained solution which suits ICANNs own and ICANN contracted and would be contracted parties interests even when those interests don’t align with the wider public interest.

This is extremely shortsighted behavior and not a healthy situation for the governance of the DNS. We are already seeing the implications of such actions. –

The prospect of the breaking of universal resolvability of sites together with the premise that wholesale censorship will become the accepted norm rather than the reviled exception.

More chances for innocent domain registrants to lose their property through extra mechanisms granted to appease TM holders for an expanded namespace.

The removal of price caps through equal treatment clauses for existing registrants.

Vertical Integration for existing registries through equal treatment clauses.

More government intervention and hands on oversight in the DNS

And this is before new gTLDs are even launched. If new gTLDs are allowed to descend into an unsustainable speculation spiral there will be even wider costs and implications for [innocent third party] existing domain registrants.

Beyond the launch for example even if price caps remain and quite a few new gTLDs are priced at say $50 or even $20 wholesale, then existing gTLDs will be perceived as cheap and will make it easier for them to get larger increases in the price caps.

Great post gpmgroup

Here's another serious problem when you let pure greed get in the way of common sense

"There are fears that the sudden influx of new money into the gTLD space could easily attract ICANN’s top talent away from the organization, making it less effective."

Duurr...no shit ICANN

domainincite.com/calls-to-fix-new-gtld-revolving-door-at-icann/


.

 

[alien51]

Very well put together post, though it's not infinite but a max of 1000 new extensions per the latest guidebook.

Sorry for the exaggeration. You have to blame Archangel for this. He's the one who started this exaggerated stats. I was just making a point myself. lol

And also, i didn't realize reps are a sensitive commodity here at NP. This is the 2nd time i've seen people take issue with it. The first one i saw on the Godaddy thread about some guy taking issue with reps given to those who are just reposting old codes. I figured then, if only i could get hold of just one (just one!) 1.99 Godaddy coupon code i could post here, maybe i'll get 20 reps in just 1 day. But Bob hates me. I'm such a leech for coupon codes. I can't shake it off.