debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[GILSAN]

After the Climate change Protest in Rome a few days ago... Looks like the generation that wants to save the planet needs to be saved from their hypocrisy!

 

[oldtimer]

After the Climate change Protest in Rome a few days ago... Looks like the generation that wants to save the planet needs to be saved from their hypocrisy!

Soon there will be Robots that will pick up all the trash for us, but trash is just the symptom, the disease is Consumerism.

All the rampant and excessive production, manufacturing, and building which leads to all the Owning, Collecting, and Wasting of stuff is the real problem. IMO

 

[J Sokol]

I recently saw a documentary on PBS channel that showed a millionaire who had built a 500 thousand dollar mansion for his dog complete with a swimming pool, a very large training area, and a lounge.

Sadly, the U.S. has become a country where the pets often have better lives than humans. This is especially troubling since pets are heavy contributors to climate change.
Here's an excerpt from the UCLA Newsroom:
"In a paper published today in the journal PLOS One, Okin says he found that cats and dogs are responsible for 25 to 30 percent of the environmental impact of meat consumption in the United States. If Americans’ 163 million Fidos and Felixes comprised a separate country, their fluffy nation would rank fifth in global meat consumption, Okin calculated, behind only Russia, Brazil, the United States and China."
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/the-truth-about-cats-and-dogs-environmental-impact

 

[oldtimer]

Sadly, the U.S. has become a country where the pets often have better lives than humans. This is especially troubling since pets are heavy contributors to climate change.
Here's an excerpt from the UCLA Newsroom:
"In a paper published today in the journal PLOS One, Okin says he found that cats and dogs are responsible for 25 to 30 percent of the environmental impact of meat consumption in the United States. If Americans’ 163 million Fidos and Felixes comprised a separate country, their fluffy nation would rank fifth in global meat consumption, Okin calculated, behind only Russia, Brazil, the United States and China."
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/the-truth-about-cats-and-dogs-environmental-impact

I didn't want to mention where the documentary was made, because it's pretty much the same story all around the World when it comes to the Elite and their excesses, but this was actually in China, as it has the highest number of new millionaires in the World.

PS: I rather if we kept the pets and got rid of the Elite.

(just kidding, but then the Elite who don't want to change their ways and want to continue pampering themselves in so much luxury and excesses are the ones that are not worth keeping.)

 

[J Sokol]

PS: I rather if we kept the pets and got rid of the Elite.

You're right - the elite are much harder on the environment than all the pets in the world are.
Oldtimer, do you think growing pressure about the environmental cost the elites are inflicting will lead to some changes on their part? Maybe they could each donate a mansion or two to help house all the folks who are living under bridges or in tent cities.

 

[oldtimer]

You're right - the elite are much harder on the environment than all the pets in the world are.
Oldtimer, do you think growing pressure about the environmental cost the elites are inflicting will lead to some changes on their part? Maybe they could each donate a mansion or two to help house all the folks who are living under bridges or in tent cities.

I hope so, if they don't listen to logic and keep on adding to their already huge carbon footprint things will get real bad real fast. Although in the interest of fairness even if the Elite reform their ways and reduce their carbon footprint by 90% and abandon all their mega mansions, private jets and yachts, and their multiple luxury cars we still need the average people to reduce their carbon footprint by half if we want the Planet to be okay. IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Just a reminder,

If you provide any stats or info concerning Climate Change or the Environment or anything else that pertains to this thread be sure that they are factual and please indicate the source, otherwise if it's just your opinion then put IMO at the end of your post. (In My Opinion)

 

[JB Lions]

Just a reminder,

If you provide any stats or info concerning Climate Change or the Environment or anything else that pertains to this thread be sure that they are factual and please indicate the source, otherwise if it's just your opinion then put IMO at the end of your post. (In My Opinion)

It's a good idea. See if you can get Gilsan to post the source for his protest trash pic above. They've been known to post pics from some other event and tie it to something else, example - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/protesters-hyde-park-rubbish/

It could be but like most events they usually clean up afterwards.

 

[GILSAN]

Dutch farmers clog highways in protest at politicians labeling them climate change problem...
Dutch farmers blocked hundreds of miles of major roads with their tractors to protest what they say are attempts to scapegoat their industry and paint them as a “problem” that needs fixing in discussions over climate change.
Up to 10,000 farmers took to the highways in their tractors on Monday to slowly make their way to The Hague causing 620 miles (998km) of traffic jams and the worst morning commute in the country’s history.
https://www.rt.com/news/470011-dutch-farmers-tractors-climate/

 

[oldtimer]

I was just thinking and trying to consider the effects of human productivity on the Planet, what if being too productive is not such a good thing after all. Well as individuals being productive has its rewards, but as a species would it have been better if we hadn’t been so productive to begin with. We are taught to think less of stagnated societies that have arrested growth and development, but what if in the long run that would have been a better way for humanity to have pursued. I mean we have already expanded our lives beyond what our home planet can handle hence all the problems that we are facing with the Environment and the Global Warming. What if in the future productive people are going to be considered harmful and dangerous to the wellbeing of the Planet and are somehow going to be restrained from being too productive.

 

[Cal2]

Was checking my book shelves to see what I might recycle, and came across a couple copies of Furry Logic, that I forgot I had. Thought of you and your environmental thread, OT:
https://bookysh.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/dont-worry-furry-logic-series/

 

[JB Lions]

Just watched this on Netflix (actually blu-ray thru mail), very good:

 

[oldtimer]

Was checking my book shelves to see what I might recycle, and came across a couple copies of Furry Logic, that I forgot I had. Thought of you and your environmental thread, OT:
https://bookysh.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/dont-worry-furry-logic-series/

Furry logic as you call it and abstract thought and ideas should not be totally ignored and discounted as the evolution of our understanding of ourselves and our environment might expand what we might consider to be logical and correct in the future.

For example the idea of being over productive contributing to our Environmental problems tends to lead to the logical conclusion that the more lazy people are more Environmentally friendly and might actually be living ahead of their time if in the future being too productive is going to be considered a bad thing. Having an open mind requires that one considers all possibilities even if they sound funny at first. IMO

 

[Cal2]

Having an open mind requires that one considers all possibilities even if they sound funny at first. IMO

You're sounding very Edward de Bono here.

 

[Cal2]

An interesting feel good one for you, OT:

The Himalayan village that confiscates single-use plastics
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science...-village-that-confiscates-single-use-plastics

 

[oldtimer]

@Cal2 (and everyone else) , Although I appreciate your input here but its best not to make me or any other participant in this thread the focus of the attention so much as I like everyone else am struggling to find the right path to Social and Environmental salvation for our home Planet and as such we need to put our focus on the big picture so that more important issues can be discussed and considered towards this cause. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[GILSAN]

Green activist Greta Thunberg & Thomas Cook (satire)

 

[oldtimer]

Green activist Greta Thunberg & Thomas Cook (satire)

I agree with Greta that rampant Economical growth is not necessarily good for the Planet.

 

[oldtimer]

Keeping an open mind and being able to consider all the factors, elements, and angles to the Environmental problems that we are facing and to be able to see the big picture when it comes to saving Humanity and our home Planet requires that we free ourselves from any political, religious, or racial affiliations, loyalties, and agendas that tend to limit our ability to think logically by putting us in a pre established frame of mind that is passed on from the top down to protect and serve the interests and agendas of the Elite. It makes me sad when I see that people who are brainwashed by one ideology or the other preferring to close their eyes on the failures and shortcomings of their own side completely whether its Left, Right, or any other group and focusing all their efforts in attacking the opposite side instead of trying to find a solution to our Social and Environmental problems. As people cheer for and give their complete support to those who represent their own side without questioning the merits of what they stand for while attacking and trying to discredit the opposite side and making it look like as if they are always wrong in all their beliefs and ideas it makes me to sometimes start to lose hope in whether Humanity as a whole is going to have the ability to save itself especially when I see that most everyone (even those who are enlightened) seem to focus all their life's efforts in advancing the polarization and animosities that exist all around the World between all the different factions. As I see many Countries around the World parading their weapons of mass destruction and showing off their huge nuclear missiles with pride instead of putting more efforts in to helping to protect the Environment it sometimes makes me feel like as if I am living on the Planet of the Apes.

One thing is for sure we can’t save Humanity and our home Planet if we are not willing to change our existing mindsets and lifestyles.

IMO

 

[Cal2]

If you want to change minds…

If you want to change the mind of a scientist, do more science. Do better science. Get your hands on the data set and prove your assertions.

If you want to change the mind of a bureaucrat, bring more power.

If you want to change the minds of the nerds, build something that’s new.

If you want to change the mind of a teenager, amplify the other teenagers.

If you want to change the mind of the audience, put more emotion into your story.

If you want to change the mind of a believer, bring in the perceived authorities.

If you want to change the mind of a banker, eliminate risk.

If you want to change the mind of an engineer, build a prototype.

If you want to change the mind of a hustler, show the money.

If you want to change the mind of a sports fan, win the game.

Other people don’t believe what you believe, and they don’t see what you see.

- Seth Godin

 

[oldtimer]

"Other people don’t believe what you believe, and they don’t see what you see.

- Seth Godin"

Granted that not everyone believes in what I believe, but how can they not see what I see as far as the Environment crumbling right in front of our eyes and no one being willing to change the mindsets and the lifestyles that have brought our Planet to the verge of collapse both as far as Social and Environmental problems that we are facing.

 

[Cal2]

Granted that not everyone believes in what I believe, but how can they not see what I see as far as the Environment crumbling right in front of our eyes and no one is willing to change the mindsets and the lifestyles that have brought our Planet to the verge of collapse both as far as Social and Environmental problems that we are facing.

You'll probably get better answers for that, and what to do about it, from people like Seth Godin. I'd say they're more knowledgeable about such things. If Godin says climate change is a marketing problem, then even if he's only partially right, I'd look to see who Really knows marketing, and ask them your questions. I don't know how much help you might get from a place called marketingprofs.com - I haven't been involved there for some years. But there was good marketing minds there during my time there. Whether that's changed... . But it could be a start. I'd maybe mention what Godin said, and see what they thought could be done as far as marketing for climate change.

This link should get you to MarketingProfs Know-How Exchange: https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/

 

[Cal2]

Greta using Mockery Marketing in climate change battle: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...ock-vladimir-putin/ar-AAIg0CD?ocid=spartandhp

One thing that can get to people, including powers that be, is being (well) mocked. How that might change things.... or entrench attitudes... Would probably bolster climate change supporters, which could be the best effect from it.

 

[GILSAN]

Study: Chinese Cargo Ships Dump 73% of Trash in Atlantic Ocean
International researchers estimate that as much as 73 percent of the garbage in the Atlantic Ocean originates from Chinese merchant vessels, Canada’s National Post reported on Tuesday.

Researchers from Canada and South Africa studied waste washed up on the beaches of Inaccessible Island, an island in the heart of the southern Atlantic Ocean, on a series of trips that began in 1984. Nearly three-quarters of the trash they sifted through originated in Asia, produced by China. The research challenges long assumptions that plastic debris at sea primarily originates on land.

In addition, 90 percent of the debris recovered was time-stamped within the last year, and it would take an average of three to five years for that same garbage to make it from land to sea. The study was published by Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences on Monday. As it explains in summary:

Many oceanic islands suffer high levels of stranded debris, particularly those near subtropical gyres where floating debris accumulates. During the last 3 decades, plastic drink bottles have shown the fastest growth rate of all debris types on remote Inaccessible Island. During the 1980s, most bottles drifted to the island from South America, carried 3,000 km by the west wind drift.

Currently, 75% of bottles are from Asia, with most from China. The recent manufacture dates indicate that few bottles could have drifted from Asia, and presumably are dumped from ships, in contravention of International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships regulations. Our results question the widely held assumption that most plastic debris at sea comes from land-based sources.

“I think the evidence is pretty strong that it’s coming from merchant shipping,” Ryan said, “surprised” by the discovery because he had assumed the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships would have better regulated that particular avenue.

“I think we need to look quite carefully at better monitoring and enforcement of regulations,” he concluded.

China is widely considered the world’s most egregious polluter. In 2018, the country produced more carbon emissions than the United States and the European Union combined. Thus far, their attempts to ensure their country remains habitable have had mixed results.

Young environmental activist Greta Thunberg and several of her peers notably filed a complaint with the U.N., citing the Convention on the Rights of the Child, against Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, and Turkey for their lack of effort against pollution. As China is not a signatory to that convention, it did not appear on the list of defendants.

https://www.breitbart.com/environme...ese-cargo-ships-dump-73-trash-atlantic-ocean/

Greta needs to start preaching in China first!

 

[GILSAN]

An Alexandria Ocasio Cortez supporter wants to stop global warming by eating children. If we eat our own babies we can save the planet. LMAO!!!

"Even if we bombed Russia we'd still have too many people...so we have to get rid of the babies... We need to eat the babies!"

Someone must have eaten a part of her brain...