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NamePros Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

Labeled as debate in The Break Room started by oldtimer, Aug 23, 2019.

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  1. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Why did the Liberal Media all gang up at the same time to criticize Brazil? I'll tell you why. It's because Bolsonaro is right wing, won the Brazililian general elections with 60% of the vote and the Liberal Media hate him for that. It's exactly the same with Trump and other conservative leaders in Europe.

    Why not gang up against all those African, South East Asian, Central American countries?

    What about Siberia and Alaska? Why not spread the blame?

    Here's the tweet that started it all...

    Emmanuel Macron
    ✔@EmmanuelMacron
    Our house is burning. Literally. The Amazon rain forest - the lungs which produces 20% of our planet’s oxygen - is on fire. It is an international crisis. Members of the G7 Summit, let's discuss this emergency first order in two days!
    #ActForTheAmazon

    Why did this arrogant little Frenchman with a 25% approval rating need to provoke the Brazilians in this way? What was he expecting... that Bolsonaro would put his tail between his legs and ask for forgiveness?

    If Macron is so worried about "Our house is burning" then he should start replanting the forest land that used to occupy most of his country.

    This Brazil bashing is totally political. Actions speak louder than words Monsieur Macron... Do your homework at home first or just "fermez la bouche"!
     
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  2. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @GILSAN , You make some good points, but instead of reducing the blame lets expand it to address all those other areas that are being neglected. Regardless of what some extremist might say in the Media we as rational people have to consider what kind of World we want to have a 100, 200, or even a 1000 years from now. We can't blame those in the past centuries as they didn't know the consequences of their actions (or lack thereof), but now we have enough knowledge that should help us create a course of action to be in control of the future of this Planet, one thing is for sure we can't leave things to chance and we can't go on totally unaware of what is going on around us. We have to take full charge of our future and the future of our Planet. Finding a balance between having a healthy Economy and having a healthy Environment is the key in my opinion.
     
  3. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Exactly... lets not reduce the blame to just Brazil (which produces 20% of our planets oxygen) and Bolsonaro (just because he's conservative and therefore hated by Liberals) but also spread the blame to the other countries that produce the other 80% of our oxygen along with their respective leaders and peoples.

    Trying to convince people about climate change while driving gas guzzlers, flying on private jets, changing cars every 3-4 years, eating junk food or buying cheap products from those hundreds of thousands Chinese factories that are polluting the atmosphere and the oceans... will not work for me.

    Not only must people talk the talk... they have to walk the walk as well...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unfortunately the Environment has been politicized to the point that many people have forgotten the main issue at hand which is the future and wellbeing of our Planet. Environment is like the human rights, artificial intelligence, or the integrity of human genome it should concern all humanity. Political, religious, and racial divisions and animosities only make the situation worse, no one can solve these problems on their own, it's going to take a united effort on behalf of all humanity to bring these problems under control. IMO
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  5. J Sokol

    J Sokol Top Member VIP

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    Nicely stated, oldtimer. At this point we need to put our energies into solving the problems at hand rather than assigning blame or engaging in political controversy.
     
  6. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Indeed it's become way too politicized, and there are culprits and they need to be identified. The MSM are the worst offenders, but there are many others...
    Lets look at climate activist Greta Thunberg, the 16-year-old Swedish girl with braids who appeared on Time Magazine's cover. It's all very nice and pretty what she's doing, but IMO she's preaching to the wrong crowd.

    She goes around Europe talking about the environment and climate change, but we already know about it.

    Recently she went to the US, by sea on a

    yacht (she's afraid of flying) but that two-week sea trip across the Atlantic in ‘zero-carbon yacht’ may generate more emissions than it saves as two of the crew have to FLY to New York to bring the boat back to Europe.

    It would have been a whole lot cheaper to fly... like everyone else!

    Instead of going to the US, where people are already very conscious about climate change, she should have traveled to Africa and especially Asia, where she could preach to the main polluters (China, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia etc)
    [​IMG]

    So much hypocrisy... and we havn't even talked about Al Gore!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @GILSAN , For a minute forget about everyone else and tell us how would you manage and preserve Gilsan's Planet for the future generations. What problems do see that really need attention and how do go about solving those problems.

    PS: You can take a little time to put your thoughts together so no need to hurry with an answer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  8. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    That's impossible to answer because different cultures and countries behave very differently. Even though some countries, especially the developed ones are more aware of this problem, others don't really care or bother to do anything about it.

    Just look at the image below... Two countries occupy the same island. Haiti allows its citizens to chop down all its trees till there are none left. How do you convince the people of Haiti that this is wrong? Only by force I believe, and even then I have my doubts...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    There's only one solution for Haiti... do like Scotland and many other countries.... REFORESTATION.

    Scotland Plants 22 Million Trees to Fight Climate Change



    If developed countries cut down on excessive and unnecessary consumption, that would reduce the number of factories polluting the air, the rivers and the seas, especially the ones in China, India and other South East Asia countries.

    The more the developed west and developing countries consume, the more pollution. How to stop that?

    I don't know how to stop that. What I know is that my contribution is extremely high to reduce pollution and waste, in my little corner of the world.

    It's up to the thinking heads to come up with solutions that will work in developing and poor countries, except for this Swedish Scientist idiot, whose solution may only work in some remote parts of Papua New Guinea or in the Congo...
    Swedish professor suggests cannibalism could help fight climate change
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/swedish-professor-suggests-cannibalism-could-help-fight-climate-change/ar-AAGUTfY
     
  9. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Greta & The Climate Cult
    Greta Thunberg recently arrived in New York, after traveling across the Atlantic to make a point about climate change. Over in America people might think Greta is a teenage superstar, but in Sweden she's known as a publicity stunt.

    Nothing personal against Greta, I care very much about the climate myself. The theory of global warming isn't entirely without merit, but there are better ways of caring for our earth and climate than sacrificing democracy.
     
  10. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Regreening the desert with John D. Liu - Docu - 2012
    For more than 15 years, cameraman and ecologist John D. Liu has been working on his worldwide mission to green deserts and to restore biodiversity. It all started in 1995 when Liu filmed the Loess-plateau in China. He witnessed a local population who turned an area of almost the same size as The Netherlands from a dry, exhausted wasteland into one green oasis.

    This experience changed his life. From that moment on, Liu has been travelling all over the world to convince and inspire government leaders, policy-makers and farmers with his film material and knowledge. Liu diligently spreads the message that restoration of ecosystems is not only possible, but also economically very meaningful.

    Backlight accompanies Liu on his mission in Jordan and shows on the basis of Liu’s own film material that a green future is possible worldwide.
     
  11. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hope in a Changing Climate - by John D. Liu (2009)
    Hope in a Changing Climate optimistically reframes the debate on global warming. Illustrating that large, decimated Eco-systems can be restored, the BBC World documentary reveals success stories from Ethiopia, Rwanda and China which prove that bringing large areas back from environmental ruin is possible, and key to stabilizing the earth's climate, eradicating poverty and making sustainable agriculture a reality.
     
  12. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Same as the Founding Fathers who had the wisdom and foresight over 250 years ago to design a system that would protect people from themselves, I wish that someone had the wisdom and foresight a 150 years ago to come up with a global program to protect the Planet at the time that we entered the Industrialization age, but unfortunately that opportunity has been lost not due to ignorance or incompetence, but just because of the fact that no one at that time had the knowledge to even recognize that the Planet could be irreversibly damaged by human activity.

    Now here we are almost in the year 2020 , we now have all the knowledge that is needed to know that human activity has played a big role in causing the problems that we are facing with the environment. This planet has been experiencing Climate Changes for millions of years even before there were any humans, but what is making the difference now is the fact that instead of those changes taking place over thousands or millions of years they are now happening within a couple of centuries or even within a few decades. Absent any catastrophic events such as sudden volcanic interruptions or huge asteroid impacts human activity is now the biggest danger to the environment that needs to be addressed and corrected.

    As you mentioned Reforestation is a very positive and necessary step to take so that this Planet can continue to breathe. Among other things that come to mind are putting more research on trying to find safer sources of energy that can replace fossil fuels, reducing meat consumption and finding more plant based sources of food that are more environmentally friendly, cutting down on unnecessary travel and finding better means of transportation, making homes, appliances, and equipment that can be reconfigured, updated, and reused without adding so much waste to the landfills, reducing or eliminating the use of materials, chemicals, and disposable items that are harmful to the environment.

    Although we have to keep in mind that any of these ideas requires changes in our habits, life styles, and jobs so that is why it is so important to find a balance between having a healthy Environment and having a healthy Economy. Unfortunately because of all the delays we don’t have any time left to gradually adjust ourselves to what is needed to save this planet, some drastic steps need to be taken now before it’s too late, but if we are to save peoples jobs and livelihood we must think of ways to transform those jobs in to areas that are more environmentally friendly otherwise the economical impact around the World of people losing their jobs will be as bad or even worse than the environmental effects on their lives.

    In my opinion tackling the environmental problems has to be done in two ways:

    1-Education and Creating Awareness

    2-Constructive, Timely, and Adequate Action

    Perhaps we can get more input from everyone as to how best to carry each one out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  13. J Sokol

    J Sokol Top Member VIP

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    upload_2019-9-9_18-0-32.png

    Great points from Gilsan and old-timer.
    One thing that gives me hope is this list of countries that have already made substantial changes while maintaining a decent lifestyle. Knowing they've been successful, the rest of us can apply some of their strategies to our own communities.
     
  14. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    2/3 of the worlds population lives in Asia and Africa at the moment. In a decade's time those two continents will have 3/4 of the population worldwide.

    Fertility Rates in Europe:
    1.59 live births per woman in 2018,
    Fertility Rates in Japan:
    1.44 live births per woman in 2018,
    Fertility Rates in the USA:
    1.72 live births per woman in 2018,

    Fertility Rates in ASIA:

    2.2 live births per woman in 2018

    Fertility Rates in AFRICA:
    5.1 live births per woman in 2018

    World Map with Fertility Rates
    [​IMG]

    The replacement level of the population is 2.1. Anything below that means more people die than are born.

    So it's really easy to see from the above stats and graphic, where the problems lie.
    Africa is by far the continent with the highest growth rate in population and has been like that for a long, long time!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  15. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Pointing the finger at Sovereign Brazil by Macron is beyond ridiculous. Brazil can do whatever the F they want. Burn it all down for more beef farms, its their damn land and sovereign right to whatever. They don’t owe the world. Its none of anyones business to tell other countries what to do. Thats Sovereign rights. The EU cut down their own trees centuries long ago, now they want to whine at other Countries and set unrealistic standards for others. I wonder what France looked like 250 years ago. Industrialized Germany isn’t some poster child for anything. I have extensive trips and spent time in 5 of the countries listed. Some can’t have large trees, some can and pollute everywhere. Japan is ready to release radioactive water from Fukashima into the Ocean, a much more realistic global threat than a few thousand trees, where is all the news about that?. The US has improved air quality in places like LA, better than decades before and the American Indians called it “the valley of smokes”, like LA Smog isn’t solely caused by humans, but the inversion layer. Mount Pinatubo eruption changed weather for a few years as I recall. El Niño swings back and forth in cycles. China, India and Africa have more pollution problems effecting the entire world than the US, and other problems like over population. POS Macron wouldn’t dare challenge them though, as they are suppliers or customers he’d rather find a way to do business with Iran right now and his loan scam to get around the embargo.
     
  16. manpreet

    manpreet Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thanks for sharing such insights, was unaware these types of threads existed st NamePros. Environmental issues are very important in the world we are living in today.
     
  17. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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  18. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Is pollution more correlated with population growth or Industrial development, does population growth automatically mean more cars, planes, and factories in underdeveloped areas. A large group of people who live a simple life with a small carbon footprint will have less impact on the environment than a small group of people who indulge themselves in excesses that produce a large carbon footprint. So I am not sure if population growth on its own can be the primary factor in global warming and climate change. I assume that areas with big population and large carbon footprint such as China and India are contributing more to pollution than Africa. IMO
     
  19. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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  20. J Sokol

    J Sokol Top Member VIP

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    It's true that people in third-world countries leave a smaller carbon footprint. But the problem in Africa, for example, is that the population growth creates a greater demand for food and water. With the climate warming, even these basic needs will become harder and harder to meet.
     
  21. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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  22. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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  23. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Their carbon footprint isn't as small as you might think. Don't forget that a high % of rural Africans have moved into the big cities, which have become among the most polluted in the world.

    Almost half the African population does not have basic sanitation, resulting in contaminated and extremely polluted water streams and rivers which help transmit diseases like diarrhea, cholera, dysentery and typhoid.

    Sub-Saharan Africans also have a tendency to litter a lot, resulting in garbage accumulating in the streets that attract rats, flies, mosquitoes etc. which is such a danger to public health.


    South Africa...

    [​IMG]

    Poverty in Africa can be the result of political instability and ethnic conflicts, but mostly thanks to the massive corruption by it's ruling class who really don't give a crap about about the population.

    Yes indeed China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still the biggest polluters, but at the rate their population is increasing, Africa will catch up in a decade or so.


    India...

    [​IMG]

    China...
    [​IMG]
     
  24. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Olive trees can grow to up to 2000 years. Still a number of those in Italy and Crete.

    This one is considered the oldest at about 3250 years old!
    https://fincahermosa.com/hermosa/en/oldest-olive-trees-the-world/
    [​IMG]
     
  25. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Wow 3250 years and still living. I have never seen that one, amazing. We had one in our yard, it was 45 years old then my father got tired of it and cut it up.

    Yep, riding the trains you see several million Olive trees on the Peninsula, for hours once you leave Madrid south, east or west in Andalucia it seems. I was looking and really never have been able to find any data on deforestation in the EU, like you know if you drive out of London few huge groves of trees as I recall. Ireland you look at photos and none also. No idea if they were ever really heavy forested, do you?
     

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